Official 2014 Vizio Mxxx-Bx Series owners thread - Page 50 - AVS Forum
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post #1471 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilditup1 View Post
I'm using dE94 to measure, with fields off the AVS709 BD-R. The fluctuations are persistent and maddening. I may need to take the very, very low end into account when fiddling with RGB Gain/Offset next time (because of course there'll be a next time!) I just now managed to get 10% to sit around 1.5 (still no local dimming). Everything else is at the worst 1.0, and most of them closer to zero than to one.
This is my first time attempting to calibrate anything beyond using pluge or color patterns, and I've basically been getting a crash course since Friday, heh
What meter and what program are you using? For de94, anything 1.5 and below is great and you can't really do better. Now, what happens when you turn on local dimming? If it's like mine with light output at 35 ftl, 10% will have a gamma of 2.5 to 2.6 which is way too dark and you will lose shadow detail. Gamma at higher levels range from 2.1 to 2.2. You can change gamma by increasing or decreasing rgb by the same amount at each white balance point. Chromapure has a gamma module that makes it easier to do but it's still a bit of pain to go through all the points especially the low end. That and the quirky way the 10pt works may cause you to pull your hair out since you are just starting out calibrating.

For color, make sure you run saturations sweeps to check if there are greater errors at lower saturation levels. Red is undersaturated on my tv and you can't fix it no matter what.
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post #1472 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by spwill View Post
What meter and what program are you using? For de94, anything 1.5 and below is great and you can't really do better. Now, what happens when you turn on local dimming? If it's like mine with light output at 35 ftl, 10% will have a gamma of 2.5 to 2.6 which is way too dark and you will lose shadow detail. Gamma at higher levels range from 2.1 to 2.2. You can change gamma by increasing or decreasing rgb by the same amount at each white balance point. Chromapure has a gamma module that makes it easier to do but it's still a bit of pain to go through all the points especially the low end. That and the quirky way the 10pt works may cause you to pull your hair out since you are just starting out calibrating.

For color, make sure you run saturations sweeps to check if there are greater errors at lower saturation levels. Red is undersaturated on my tv and you can't fix it no matter what.
Thanks for all the advice! I managed to finally get 10% grey down to 0.8, with everything under 1. So white at least is taken care of (with these settings). But my gamma is pretty bad, though not at all how you're describing.

Am using an i1 DisplayPro III (or Display3 or whatever) with ChromaPure Standard.
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post #1473 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bilditup1 View Post
Thanks for all the advice! I managed to finally get 10% grey down to 0.8, with everything under 1. So white at least is taken care of (with these settings). But my gamma is pretty bad, though not at all how you're describing.

Am using an i1 DisplayPro III (or Display3 or whatever) with ChromaPure Standard.
Your whites are clipping. Check a grayscale steps pattern and make sure each step at the high end shows. Make sure your contrast is not set too high as that will clip whites. I have contrast set at 43 right now. If both the calibrated black and calibrated modes with local dimming on show clipping from about 70% up, then you probably have a defective panel.
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post #1474 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by spwill View Post
Your whites are clipping. Check a grayscale steps pattern and make sure each step at the high end shows. Make sure your contrast is not set too high as that will clip whites. I have contrast set at 43 right now. If both the calibrated black and calibrated modes with local dimming on show clipping from about 70% up, then you probably have a defective panel.
Wow, really? Well crap. I thought I had that shtuff down tight weeks ago. I'll run it again...

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You may want to reach out to David Katz from CNet to see if they still have their test units. He'd be able to test and reach higher up within Vizio to get answers.
I just sent him an email via the CNET UI, with a link to this thread. Let's see if he replies.
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post #1475 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by spwill View Post
Your whites are clipping. Check a grayscale steps pattern and make sure each step at the high end shows. Make sure your contrast is not set too high as that will clip whites. I have contrast set at 43 right now. If both the calibrated black and calibrated modes with local dimming on show clipping from about 70% up, then you probably have a defective panel.
No, I just double checked - everything up to 235 is showing. I can decrease contrast so that bars beyond reference white won't clip, and see what happens. Moving it down to 43 ensures that everything north of 235 flashes, as you suggested.
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post #1476 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by spwill View Post
Your whites are clipping. Check a grayscale steps pattern and make sure each step at the high end shows. Make sure your contrast is not set too high as that will clip whites. I have contrast set at 43 right now. If both the calibrated black and calibrated modes with local dimming on show clipping from about 70% up, then you probably have a defective panel.
Heyo! Now that's more like it! dE is ruined 20% and below but that's fixable (I hope). Only thing left is to possibly deal with colors somehow. Thanks for the tip!

ED: If I make a new custom setting from calibrated, enable local dimming, and manually re-enter Gain/Offset numbers, the whites don't clip, though it is, as you said (I think?), contrasty on the bottom end (see add'l pic). Only 10% is beyond repair right now. Note that this is without anything in the Color Tuner for HSB just yet.
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post #1477 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bilditup1 View Post
Heyo! Now that's more like it! dE is ruined 20% and below but that's fixable (I hope). Only thing left is to possibly deal with colors somehow. Thanks for the tip!

ED: If I make a new custom setting from calibrated, and manually re-enter Gain/Offset numbers, the whites don't clip, though it is, as you said (I think?), contrasty on the bottom end (see add'l pic). Only 10% is beyond repair right now. Note that this is without anything in the Color Tuner for HSB just yet.
Yep, those gamma numbers look similiar to mine with local dimming on and off. You're on the right track. Before you do anymore tweaks, set you're backlight to whatever light output you are targeting. You maybe able to squeeze more light output by raising contrast, but always check for clipping. Put up a 100% field while increasing contrast and you can see red and blue drop off. I'm not sure if you can get 10% below 3 but it really doesn't matter since it's so dark. You can get it within range with the 10pt controls and fix the gamma as well. Again a pain in the ass to do but worth it since the low end gamma is so bad with local dimming on.
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post #1478 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by spwill View Post
Your whites are clipping. Check a grayscale steps pattern and make sure each step at the high end shows. Make sure your contrast is not set too high as that will clip whites. I have contrast set at 43 right now. If both the calibrated black and calibrated modes with local dimming on show clipping from about 70% up, then you probably have a defective panel.
I just got my 65" today, and did a basic settings adjustment with the Disney WOW disk. I'm going to rent a Colormunki Photo spectro to calibrate in a couple weeks. When I did the contrast setting with the disk (which isn't very clear), I got around 80 before the 0% above white started clipping (all the above white was clipped). Obviously, that's way above what you, and the CNET settings, have. Does a meter show clipping that the disk doesn't? What should I look for when I do get a meter to set the contrast? I'm a little unclear on this with the backlight setting being adjustable to get the optimal ftL (around 40 is what I'm thinking). When I calibrated in the past you adjusted the contrast to get up to the ftL you were shooting for.

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post #1479 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 05:36 PM
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My TV did have vertical banding (the fourth one) and I didn't even have to do a return-exchange from Best Buy, I called Vizio instead and they issued a white glove replacement. I'm too lazy to upload pictures even though I had to for Vizio, lol.
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post #1480 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by spwill View Post
Yep, those gamma numbers look similiar to mine with local dimming on and off. You're on the right track. Before you do anymore tweaks, set you're backlight to whatever light output you are targeting. You maybe able to squeeze more light output by raising contrast, but always check for clipping. Put up a 100% field while increasing contrast and you can see red and blue drop off. I'm not sure if you can get 10% below 3 but it really doesn't matter since it's so dark. You can get it within range with the 10pt controls and fix the gamma as well. Again a pain in the ass to do but worth it since the low end gamma is so bad with local dimming on.
Thanks. I'm not sure though, what light output should I be aiming for? "Reference" 120cd/m^2 at 100% is kinda dark.
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post #1481 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by smeg36 View Post
I just got my 65" today, and did a basic settings adjustment with the Disney WOW disk. I'm going to rent a Colormunki Photo spectro to calibrate in a couple weeks. When I did the contrast setting with the disk (which isn't very clear), I got around 80 before the 0% above white started clipping (all the above white was clipped). Obviously, that's way above what you, and the CNET settings, have. Does a meter show clipping that the disk doesn't? What should I look for when I do get a meter to set the contrast? I'm a little unclear on this with the backlight setting being adjustable to get the optimal ftL (around 40 is what I'm thinking). When I calibrated in the past you adjusted the contrast to get up to the ftL you were shooting for.
Different sizes use different panels so settings may be different. A grayscale step is the easiest pattern for me to see clipping. The avshd disc here has that pattern but not sure if the disney disc has it. You set contrast the highest it can go without discoloration and clipping. With a meter, you can verify this by measuring 100% fields or windows while raising contrast to see when the colors drop. If you have contrast too high, the gamma drops off like the pics shown by bilditup1 in post 1472. Once you set contrast right, then you adjust the backlight to hit your light output.
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post #1482 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 05:58 PM
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Thanks. I'm not sure though, what light output should I be aiming for? "Reference" 120cd/m^2 at 100% is kinda dark.
120cd/m2 is about 35ftl which is pleasant for my eyes. My day mode is set for 35ftl and my night mode is 30ftl. 30ftl to 40ftl is what most experts suggest. It's really up to you how much light you need and if it causes eye fatigue.
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post #1483 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 06:05 PM
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Different sizes use different panels so settings may be different. A grayscale step is the easiest pattern for me to see clipping. The avshd disc here has that pattern but not sure if the disney disc has it. You set contrast the highest it can go without discoloration and clipping. With a meter, you can verify this by measuring 100% fields or windows while raising contrast to see when the colors drop. If you have contrast too high, the gamma drops off like the pics shown by bilditup1 in post 1472. Once you set contrast right, then you adjust the backlight to hit your light output.
Thanks, that makes way more sense than any other info I found about properly setting the contrast/backlight.

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post #1484 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by spwill View Post
Different sizes use different panels so settings may be different. A grayscale step is the easiest pattern for me to see clipping. The avshd disc here has that pattern but not sure if the disney disc has it. You set contrast the highest it can go without discoloration and clipping. With a meter, you can verify this by measuring 100% fields or windows while raising contrast to see when the colors drop. If you have contrast too high, the gamma drops off like the pics shown by bilditup1 in post 1472. Once you set contrast right, then you adjust the backlight to hit your light output.
You know, they really should instruct you to get as many of the above reference-white bars to show, if it has that much of an effect on gamma. But nobody does. I really appreciate it.

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120cd/m2 is about 35ftl which is pleasant for my eyes. My day mode is set for 35ftl and my night mode is 30ftl. 30ftl to 40ftl is what most experts suggest. It's really up to you how much light you need and if it causes eye fatigue.
Hmm. I'll be watching at night most the time, true, so I suppose I'll just stick to the std. Thanks again.
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post #1485 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 06:34 PM
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You know, they really should instruct you to get as many of the above reference-white bars to show, if it has that much of an effect on gamma. But nobody does. I really appreciate it.



Hmm. I'll be watching at night most the time, true, so I suppose I'll just stick to the std. Thanks again.
No problem, enjoy the tv! I'll be around if you have any more questions.
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post #1486 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 07:16 PM
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I thought of another calibration question (sorry for those of you following this thread who aren't interested in calibration). Every setting I've seen had the motion blur reduction set to off because it decreases overall brightness. I'd like to calibrate with it on so I could turn motion smoothing on to get full motion resolution when watching sports. It seems like there's plenty of headroom in contrast and backlight to make up for the lost brightness of motion blur reduction. Does it adversely effect black levels or the ability to get the calibration dialed in with it on?

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post #1487 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 08:06 PM
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My friend just got the 32" 2014 Vizio M, he mentioned some odd stuff with the built in speakers, how sometimes they would sound muffled, can anyone comment on that?
Also what's the currently recognized best set of settings for it?
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post #1488 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 08:32 PM
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I thought of another calibration question (sorry for those of you following this thread who aren't interested in calibration). Every setting I've seen had the motion blur reduction set to off because it decreases overall brightness. I'd like to calibrate with it on so I could turn motion smoothing on to get full motion resolution when watching sports. It seems like there's plenty of headroom in contrast and backlight to make up for the lost brightness of motion blur reduction. Does it adversely effect black levels or the ability to get the calibration dialed in with it on?
You can probably jack the backlight up to get enough light output. It will effect the black level if you turn the local dimming off, but should be fine with local dimming on. I always leave motion smoothing off since even on low it has the soe. Not sure how good a calibration with the blur reduction on would be. I don't think there would be a problem but you just have to try.
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post #1489 of 2664 Old 07-23-2014, 08:44 PM
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Question, I am just learning on how to calibrate HDTV's although I do have some knowledge as I calibrated my pc monitors with a spyder4 and dipscalgui+argyll.


I use a HTPC with a nvidia card I am outputting 0-255 from the card into my avr rxv467 and then XBMC which I have set to limited (16-235) Is this the correct way to set it up for my m492i?

I also used the AVS hd test disk and set my brightness and contrast. at 51 brightness 17 flashes but 16 does not, but for my contrast im seeing levels way about you guys, at contrast 80 the 235 white level stops flashing and only 230-234 flashes(this is what avs wants I believe)

Also on the AVS MISC test with the R B G flashing bars to 235 I increased or decreased R B G Brightness to make sure the bars flash until 235 was this correct to do? red +4 green -4 blue +4

Tell me if i've messed up anywhere.


I tried running a madvr calibration too with my spyder but I kept getting wacko results like 97% gamut.


I also used a preset to make this, I started with the calibrated preset and went from there.
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post #1490 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 07:34 AM
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Hey all--still wanting to here opinions on best overall picture quality and which screen is less reflective--the 60 or 65? Ready to jump on one or the other. Again, haven't laid eyes on either here in B.F. MN. Any input is appreciated! Thanks.
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post #1491 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 07:36 AM
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I need some help, Vizio's techs are pretty much clueless. I have a new 55, I have one HDMI cable running from the TV to a Denon AVR 400 into the ARC HDMI port on the receiver. I am running a CISCO cable box, and Apple TV. Sound is fine through the receiver on everything except VIA. My issue is that if I switch to VIA and attempt to use any of the apps, I have no sound through the receiver, or the sound from the cable box, even if it is off. If I turn the TV speakers on, I do have sound from the apps. I have tried using a different HDMI port on the TV with no sound. It appears that the TV uses a different input for the apps.

Vizio basically told me that the problem was the receiver and they couldn't help me?? Any ideas????
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post #1492 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 08:52 AM
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I need some help, Vizio's techs are pretty much clueless. I have a new 55, I have one HDMI cable running from the TV to a Denon AVR 400 into the ARC HDMI port on the receiver. I am running a CISCO cable box, and Apple TV. Sound is fine through the receiver on everything except VIA. My issue is that if I switch to VIA and attempt to use any of the apps, I have no sound through the receiver, or the sound from the cable box, even if it is off. If I turn the TV speakers on, I do have sound from the apps. I have tried using a different HDMI port on the TV with no sound. It appears that the TV uses a different input for the apps.

Vizio basically told me that the problem was the receiver and they couldn't help me?? Any ideas????

I suggest that you run an optical cable from the Vizio TV to your Denon AVR. The Vizio supports surround up to 5.1 on optical, except for DTS -- which I understand is a licensing issue.


This works great for both my E601i-A3 and my E550i-B2 Vizio TVs.
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post #1493 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 09:34 AM
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I need some help, Vizio's techs are pretty much clueless. I have a new 55, I have one HDMI cable running from the TV to a Denon AVR 400 into the ARC HDMI port on the receiver. I am running a CISCO cable box, and Apple TV. Sound is fine through the receiver on everything except VIA. My issue is that if I switch to VIA and attempt to use any of the apps, I have no sound through the receiver, or the sound from the cable box, even if it is off. If I turn the TV speakers on, I do have sound from the apps. I have tried using a different HDMI port on the TV with no sound. It appears that the TV uses a different input for the apps.

Vizio basically told me that the problem was the receiver and they couldn't help me?? Any ideas????
I was curious about this, although I'll never use it, because I have a Denon receiver as well (2113CI). I followed the setup instructions for my Denon, yours are located here. I also had to go to the TV menu, set Audio/Digital Audio Out to Bitstream (to ensure surround sound), and set System/CEC to On, system Audio Control to ON, and do the Device Discovery. then power everything down, and turn it back on. It's pretty finicky, but I did get it working.

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Question, I am just learning on how to calibrate HDTV's although I do have some knowledge as I calibrated my pc monitors with a spyder4 and dipscalgui+argyll.


I use a HTPC with a nvidia card I am outputting 0-255 from the card into my avr rxv467 and then XBMC which I have set to limited (16-235) Is this the correct way to set it up for my m492i?

I also used the AVS hd test disk and set my brightness and contrast. at 51 brightness 17 flashes but 16 does not, but for my contrast im seeing levels way about you guys, at contrast 80 the 235 white level stops flashing and only 230-234 flashes(this is what avs wants I believe)

Also on the AVS MISC test with the R B G flashing bars to 235 I increased or decreased R B G Brightness to make sure the bars flash until 235 was this correct to do? red +4 green -4 blue +4

Tell me if i've messed up anywhere.


I tried running a madvr calibration too with my spyder but I kept getting wacko results like 97% gamut.


I also used a preset to make this, I started with the calibrated preset and went from there.
It's probably the Nvidia setting. Did you put the TV in a PC mode or one of the normal presets? My TV, old Sony, recognizes a PC input and expects a 0-255 input but my Nvidia card sees a TV and defaults to 15-235. For my setup I left the TV at default brightness and contrast set the Nvidia to 0-255 and adjusted the Nvidia setting until 15 and 235 were the last flashing bars. The end result is that the Nvidia drive scales the video from 15-235 to be 0-255 like the TV wants.
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post #1495 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 10:37 AM
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It's probably the Nvidia setting. Did you put the TV in a PC mode or one of the normal presets? My TV, old Sony, recognizes a PC input and expects a 0-255 input but my Nvidia card sees a TV and defaults to 15-235. For my setup I left the TV at default brightness and contrast set the Nvidia to 0-255 and adjusted the Nvidia setting until 15 and 235 were the last flashing bars. The end result is that the Nvidia drive scales the video from 15-235 to be 0-255 like the TV wants.

I have my tv in a custom mode I mode, what mode does it have to be in? Also with NVIDIA if you use a custom resolution it automatically outputs 0-255 via hdmi so i have it setup this way 0-255 in gpu and the 0-235 in xmbc, is this correct?


can vizios get 0-255 ? as of right now I can not see 0-15 flash or 236-255
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post #1496 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 10:43 AM
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Any one have a 55 that is going to professionally calibrate? I would love to see the settings.
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post #1497 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffsk7 View Post
Any one have a 55 that is going to professionally calibrate? I would love to see the settings.
I can post my settings tonight at sometime.......I have a 55 inch and use Calman with a I1 Display Pro. Before I post though I would really like to try it again doing greyscale from 100-10 because this set is hard to properly calibrate. I would like to know if there is anyone else that calibrated their 55 inch with a meter so I can compare?
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post #1498 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by renji1337 View Post
I have my tv in a custom mode I mode, what mode does it have to be in? Also with NVIDIA if you use a custom resolution it automatically outputs 0-255 via hdmi so i have it setup this way 0-255 in gpu and the 0-235 in xmbc, is this correct?


can vizios get 0-255 ? as of right now I can not see 0-15 flash or 236-255
I cannot speak for XBMC but my guess is leave it at 15-235 since you don't want to scale the dynamic range twice. As far as the TV goes you won't see any lines over 235 or under 15 since Nvidia will scale 235 to equal 255 and a 236 source signal will be cut off at 255. When I cal I just adjust 235 till to the first step where I can no longer see it relative to the background. The only way I know to tell is if you brightness and contrast are way off of normal with the Nvidia output setting and the TV input setting probably don't match.
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post #1499 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ams123 View Post
It's probably the Nvidia setting. Did you put the TV in a PC mode or one of the normal presets? My TV, old Sony, recognizes a PC input and expects a 0-255 input but my Nvidia card sees a TV and defaults to 15-235. For my setup I left the TV at default brightness and contrast set the Nvidia to 0-255 and adjusted the Nvidia setting until 15 and 235 were the last flashing bars. The end result is that the Nvidia drive scales the video from 15-235 to be 0-255 like the TV wants.
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Originally Posted by ams123 View Post
I cannot speak for XBMC but my guess is leave it at 15-235 since you don't want to scale the dynamic range twice. As far as the TV goes you won't see any lines over 235 or under 15 since Nvidia will scale 235 to equal 255 and a 236 source signal will be cut off at 255. When I cal I just adjust 235 till to the first step where I can no longer see it relative to the background. The only way I know to tell is if you brightness and contrast are way off of normal with the Nvidia output setting and the TV input setting probably don't match.
If you create a custom resolution 0-255 is output without being scaled I believe. there's also things like madmvr levels tweaker that forces 0-255. I have 0-255 forced from my PC currently.
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post #1500 of 2664 Old 07-24-2014, 01:45 PM
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I was curious about this, although I'll never use it, because I have a Denon receiver as well (2113CI). I followed the setup instructions for my Denon, yours are located here. I also had to go to the TV menu, set Audio/Digital Audio Out to Bitstream (to ensure surround sound), and set System/CEC to On, system Audio Control to ON, and do the Device Discovery. then power everything down, and turn it back on. It's pretty finicky, but I did get it working.
Same here. I have also been switching my receiver to the TV input after a particular VIA app has started and haven't had a problem since.
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