Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with TC-AX800U Series - Page 38 - AVS Forum
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post #1111 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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He is a Photographer and photographers are going to definitely be more in favor of extra resolution and liquid Cristal display.

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Yes and no...

As a photographer, I recognize the limits of human vision and how that pertains to image size and resolution. I also appreciate what contrast can do for the apparent realism of an image, whether it's on screen or in print.

If I watch a slideshow of my images, I prefer to view that in a dark room on my new F5300 plasma. However, most of the time I use my Vizio LCD as my primary monitor, I "prefer" it during the daytime, and the lack of image retention is a big plus. I'd definitely like a UHDTV to replace the Vizio, the added resolution is a true boon for computing.

Fwiw I'm not just a photographer, I'm also a videographer. I'm looking forward to testing out 4K video and comparing it to the same footage downscaled and displayed on a HDTV.
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post #1112 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 11:37 AM
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So essentially the niche of millionaire soccer moms is more important to the industry than the mass market?
Hey, something else you can aspire to be - millionaire soccer moms. Don't you know by now? Money talks, baby. Buying power really is power.

But all jest aside, if you were a true enthusiast, you'd scrape and save and do whatever is necessary. I have a buddy who is far from a millionaire but enjoys driving sport so much that he actually has a fully equipped garage and a modified first generation M3 which he races in SCCA races. I ask him how he could afford to do what he does and he says he will find a way for something that he loves doing. Now he, I will say, is an enthusiast. I saw you throw the word "enthusiast" around couple of times. Are you truly an enthusiast or a poseur who just likes to talk and be perceived as an enthusiast?

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post #1113 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, 4K junkies who seemingly fixate on resolution more than the other aspects of the PQ. Not implying that's you necessarily, but I get that vibe from some of the early adopters.
Also, your examples of 4K use with home video's would probably not be enough for most people to run out and spend $4,000 on a new TV to watch their home movies.
The market for $4000 TVs is not most people. It is, however, the market where people also buy $2000 cameras for shooting their kids playing soccer. In fact, millionaires account for 50% of all spending on AV gear—a stat I gleaned from last year's CE Week in NY. So it really does not matter what the Walmart crowd is doing, because most people also are not buying plasmas, are not watching Blu-ray, and have never even heard of an OLED TV.

The point is that the sort of person who buys a UHDTV is also the sort of person who would own a device capable of recording 4K content. Throw kids into the mix and you have something.
That's interesting. So essentially the niche of millionaire soccer moms is more important to the industry than the mass market? I'm not being argumentative I'm asking, btw.

That bodes poorly for us working schleps that really care about this stuff and don't want the cheap crap but also don't have the money to buy the good stuff... Hm. I think there's some commentary in their someplace about the state of the middle class but right now I'm too hung over to care.
If it was not, front projection and plasma would be riding high, and Samsung wouldn't have a complete lineup of curved edgelit LCDs on sale in 2014. Of course it also helps that Samsung (and LG) make high-end washing machines and stoves, so it's a familiar brand to those housewives.

However it's not just women who do the buying. If you've been in a wealthy person's home, and vacation home, and yacht... you know that one of those consumers can easily account for ten big-screen TV purchases—often more—all of them high-end models. Compare that to the enthusiasts, who are usually shopping for one TV and are a lot more demanding about what that TV can do, and you have the formula where rich non-videophiles determine the direction of the market.

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post #1114 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 01:26 PM
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Ph8te I was definitely guessing with my comment about imagic photography and ken that doesn't own a Panasonic plasma.

I'm trying to get to a conclusion on why Mark posted this title and the continuing posts of ken defending this thread title.


But that guessing doesn't mean that my previous post doesn't have any validation :

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calibration and measure equipment are excellent tools ,this are the equipment's for precision, I can't completely depend on my eyes or ears because depending on age our eyes and ears start to fail. A ophthalmologist use an equipment to fix our sight a hearing specialist use a device to check our hearing ,I personally use glasses because I can't see clear from a distance. So I'm not against 4k because it will actually help, not sure how much from 9+ feet on a 65".what intrigued me is this title, should we consider that it beats the VT/ZT ?all that I read outside of this forum from reviewers and calibrators is that it do not beat the VT/ZT. but this review said the contrary and additional, no test or calibration done just a visual observation.

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post #1115 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 01:35 PM
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So now we have a theoretical UHD display that has a 15% higher ANSI CR, yet has 4X the resolution of an HD display. We are now seeing things in the movie we've never seen before...things I can only imagine the 'director wanted us to see'. Yes, again, resolution is not in the standard, but it DOES bring us closer to achieving that ideal of 'what the director wanted us to see'.
Maybe, maybe not. Most DI's have been 2k, so going to UHD doesn't necessarily show you more of what the director wanted you to see the extra detail afforded by shooting in UHD/4k (or higher) was removed when it was reduced to 2k res for the Digital Intermediate.
But it was done so out of necessity. The target market is 2K. Once 4K proliferates, they will be making the DIs in 4K. You can't tell me you don't benefit from getting closer to the details easily seen at a movie theater. That would really really be pushing it.
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post #1116 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 01:40 PM
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Of course their were the Sharp Elites-- an almost hilarious marketing blunder whereby Sharp names a prohibitively expensive product after another prohibitively expensive product that failed and expected their product to do something different. At least the sharp's were pretty. Again I thought: it's only a matter of time before that quality is available in a more affordable display-- yet here we are, still waiting on LCD to reach it's potential.

OLED, meanwhile, comes to market with a million questions about it's reliability, longevity, future in the market, necessity of curve, etc. and yet AT LEAST it gets the picture part right. As much as OLED still feels like 'early access' it has done something in it's very first outing that plasma and LCD have failed to do for years: look appreciably better than a 7 year old discontinued product from a company no longer in the television business.
Well if the Sharp Elites were 'hilarious', I guess the OLEDs are hysterical. OLEDs are certainly not 'mainstream' in pricing. I think we should be objective about these price assessments.

Of course with OLEDs, not only do we have pricing issues, but the issues you just mentioned too...and I'll throw in IR, burn-in and ABL potential issues to boot.
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post #1117 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 01:51 PM
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Also from what I see or what it look Ken Ross only mention Pioneer kuro and Samsung F8500.Do you like Panasonic plasma?
I chose the Kuro because there was no competition at the time. I chose the F8500 because its black levels were only slightly worse than the ZT/VT, but it had significantly greater brightness, less impact from the ABL and a sharper, more detailed picture...IMO.
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post #1118 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 01:54 PM
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You have to love Samsung's 'software-based' local dimming - I mean if there was a World Tribunal to bring charges against a company for Crimes Against Display Technology, that marketing fudgification would certainly qualify!
A bit of hyperbole there? Reading most of the reviews, it would see the professional reviewers largely disagree with that. I haven't seen them in a very dark environment, so I withhold personal comment and defer to the reviewers.

But from what I read, it's clear that whatever Samsung is doing or what they call it, it's an improvement.
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post #1119 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 01:59 PM
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My reference to 'a more serious note' was obviously a bit too subtle...
Try sophomoric pun next time. Think juvenile humor and you'll succeed with him.

Guys, ever since the 'upgrade' to the new system, my email inbox is getting flooded with messages whenever a post of mine gets quoted.


In the old system there was a way to turn off all subscriptions and shut these email notifications off but I can't find how to do it in the new system - can anyone help with some pointers?
Uncheck 'get email from forum managers' (not sure of the exact wording). I was getting the same thing.
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post #1120 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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You have to love Samsung's 'software-based' local dimming - I mean if there was a World Tribunal to bring charges against a company for Crimes Against Display Technology, that marketing fudgification would certainly qualify!
A bit of hyperbole there? Reading most of the reviews, it would see the professional reviewers largely disagree with that. I haven't seen them in a very dark environment, so I withhold personal comment and defer to the reviewers.

But from what I read, it's clear that whatever Samsung is doing or what they call it, it's an improvement.
Software is directly responsible for improving the performance of local dimming these days, whether its edgelit or backlit. The thing is, you can't thank the AV industry for that, it's the mobile phone and tablet arena that's responsible for the development of processors that are fast and cheap enough to perform intra-frame analysis and compensate for blooming and other LCD artifacts that crop up with local dimming schemes. Samsung is not the only company taking advantage of that, either.

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post #1121 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 02:04 PM
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I was definitely guessing with my comment about imagic photography and ken that doesn't own a Panasonic plasma.


I'm trying to get to a conclusion on why this title and the continuing posts of ken defending this thread title.

I'm not trying to defend the thread title. However I don't walk lock-step with either plasma or LED folks. I see the benefits of both technologies. At this point in time I am definitely an advocate of 4K, it's coming whether people like it or not. IMO it can only help the picture and bring us to the next level. Yes, to many not the same step as SD>HD, but that was only because our SD was so bad.

I've probably seen more 4K than most people and I am a firm believer in what it can do to elevate the picture quality. This has nothing to do with this endless debate on plasma vs LED which will never go anywhere...it never has and it never will.
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post #1122 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 02:16 PM
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post #1123 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 02:26 PM
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[quote=Ken Ross;24990058]
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I've probably seen more 4K than most people and I am a firm believer in what it can do to elevate the picture quality. This has nothing to do with this endless debate on plasma vs LED which will never go anywhere...it never has and it never will.
So let's imagine, for a second, that the ZT60 is an LCD display. None of it's picture quality virtues are changed, mind you, it's just not a plasma anymore. Now the AX800u vs ZT60 debate is no longer a question of plasma vs LCD-- it's now a question of display vs display.

I pick the one with the better contrast, color saturation, motion, uniformity and black levels for watching my Hollywood movies and TV dramas. You pick the one with the the higher resolution and better bright room picture mostly because you have a specific hobby that takes advantage of the extra resolution. (Btw, I look awful in HD and I can't imagine wanting to see myself in UHD-- just a self depreciating look into my self esteem issues )

There-- see, we disagree. I'm sure it's not all we disagree on. Let's not lower this to where some other members who are afraid of differences and things they're unfamiliar with want to take it. Let's just get back to discussing why we feel the way we do.
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post #1124 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 02:46 PM
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Angry

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My reference to 'a more serious note' was obviously a bit too subtle...
Try sophomoric pun next time. Think juvenile humor and you'll succeed with him.

Guys, ever since the 'upgrade' to the new system, my email inbox is getting flooded with messages whenever a post of mine gets quoted.


In the old system there was a way to turn off all subscriptions and shut these email notifications off but I can't find how to do it in the new system - can anyone help with some pointers?
Uncheck 'get email from forum managers' (not sure of the exact wording). I was getting the same thing.

Thanks - this is exactly what I am looking for - where do you find it???


Before posting this reply, I am now going down to Thread Subscription and selecting 'No email notification' as the 'Notification Type' but that doesn't seem to be changing anything :-(


Is there anything I need to do in 'My Settings' to cut this off the way you could in the old system? I've looked under 'My Setting' but cannot find anything...
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post #1125 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 02:58 PM
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You have to love Samsung's 'software-based' local dimming - I mean if there was a World Tribunal to bring charges against a company for Crimes Against Display Technology, that marketing fudgification would certainly qualify!
A bit of hyperbole there? Reading most of the reviews, it would see the professional reviewers largely disagree with that. I haven't seen them in a very dark environment, so I withhold personal comment and defer to the reviewers.

But from what I read, it's clear that whatever Samsung is doing or what they call it, it's an improvement.

Perhaps, but only a bit. I mean, algorithms to enhance contrast are fine and that is what Dolby calls High Dynamic Range, for example.


But 'local dimming' has absolutely nothing to do with it and it is borderline dishonest to suggest Samsung has a software-based 'local-dimming' technology that is anything related to true local dimming (which requires dimming backlight brightness on some zones more than others as a minimum, and should really also include some meaningful concept of 'local').


Now we also have curved TVs that are 'more comfortable' to watch.


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post #1126 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 03:11 PM
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You have to love Samsung's 'software-based' local dimming - I mean if there was a World Tribunal to bring charges against a company for Crimes Against Display Technology, that marketing fudgification would certainly qualify!
A bit of hyperbole there? Reading most of the reviews, it would see the professional reviewers largely disagree with that. I haven't seen them in a very dark environment, so I withhold personal comment and defer to the reviewers.

But from what I read, it's clear that whatever Samsung is doing or what they call it, it's an improvement.
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You have to love Samsung's 'software-based' local dimming - I mean if there was a World Tribunal to bring charges against a company for Crimes Against Display Technology, that marketing fudgification would certainly qualify!
A bit of hyperbole there? Reading most of the reviews, it would see the professional reviewers largely disagree with that. I haven't seen them in a very dark environment, so I withhold personal comment and defer to the reviewers.

But from what I read, it's clear that whatever Samsung is doing or what they call it, it's an improvement.
Software is directly responsible for improving the performance of local dimming these days, whether its edgelit or backlit. The thing is, you can't thank the AV industry for that, it's the mobile phone and tablet arena that's responsible for the development of processors that are fast and cheap enough to perform intra-frame analysis and compensate for blooming and other LCD artifacts that crop up with local dimming schemes. Samsung is not the only company taking advantage of that, either.

This is a pet-peeve of mine and so I am obviously not expressing myself very clearly.


I was a software engineer in another life, so no one needs to sell me on the value of software. My issue is not with software or algorithms - I suspect the 2014 Vizio FALD technology will prove to be superior to the relatively primitive and brute-force FALD technology of the 'last-wave' of FALD (including the Sharp Elite) and most of the credit for that will go to better algorithms and better software (since the full-array local dimming hardware is basically the same, though less expensive).


My issue is with software-only 'local dimming' - meaning no actual local dimming of the LEDs on the backlight. That is contrast enhancement, it is not local dimming. That is modifying pixel values to give the appearance of improved contrast without actually doing anything to enhance native contrast. Analyze the image to determine how much of the native contrast is actually being used and if it is less than full native contrast, modify global backlight brightness and pixel values to fully utilize native contrast. An improvement? Absolutely. 'Dimming'? It's a stretch, but perhaps (thought 'brightening' would probably be more accurate). But 'local'? No way - that is a dishonest fudgification to confuse the uneducated consumer.


I suspect that the same basic class of software and algorithms underlie Dolby's contrast enhancement technology, but Dolby is being much more honest and forthright in calling their technology 'High Dynamic Range' without saying anything about 'local dimming'


I'm not saying Samsung's technology is not good - from all reports, it is very effective. I am saying that the nature of the technology is being purposely misrepresented.
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post #1127 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a pet-peeve of mine and so I am obviously not expressing myself very clearly.

I was a software engineer in another life, so no one needs to sell me on the value of software. My issue is not with software or algorithms - I suspect the 2014 Vizio FALD technology will prove to be superior to the relatively primitive and brute-force FALD technology of the 'last-wave' of FALD (including the Sharp Elite) and most of the credit for that will go to better algorithms and better software (since the full-array local dimming hardware is basically the same, though less expensive).

My issue is with software-only 'local dimming' - meaning no actual local dimming of the LEDs on the backlight. That is contrast enhancement, it is not local dimming. That is modifying pixel values to give the appearance of improved contrast without actually doing anything to enhance native contrast. Analyze the image to determine how much of the native contrast is actually being used and if it is less than full native contrast, modify global backlight brightness and pixel values to fully utilize native contrast. An improvement? Absolutely. 'Dimming'? It's a stretch, but perhaps (thought 'brightening' would probably be more accurate). But 'local'? No way - that is a dishonest fudgification to confuse the uneducated consumer.

I suspect that the same basic class of software and algorithms underlie Dolby's contrast enhancement technology, but Dolby is being much more honest and forthright in calling their technology 'High Dynamic Range' without saying anything about 'local dimming'

I'm not saying Samsung's technology is not good - from all reports, it is very effective. I am saying that the nature of the technology is being purposely misrepresented.
I totally understand you now, and what you are talking about is adaptive local contrast enhancement. That's not really what Dolby Vision is, because Dolby Vision actually includes more dynamic range in the image data, whereas contrast enhancement only creates the illusion of more dynamic range. I agree, that's not local dimming at all and is unrelated to improved local dimming algorithms.

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post #1128 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 03:46 PM
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One thing that bothers me of a LCD is that I always see the pixels trying to catch the image and the image gets blurry with a minimum motion ,unless is steady. LCD have many parts and they keep adding more parts like full array and local dimming to make improvements to the picture.if people think that lcd are not fragile with all this parts inside ,they are wrong .


This is why I would love to see oled growing not much to add inside this display to make a awesome image.

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post #1129 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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One thing that bothers on a LCD is that I always see the pixels trying to catch the image and the image gets blurry with a minimum motion ,unless is steady. LCD have many mechanical parts and they keep adding more parts like full array and local dimming to make improvements to the picture.This is why I would love to see oled growing.
OLED suffers from similar motion-related issues to LCD because like LCD it is a sample-and-hold display technology. OLED offers a lot of cool image quality improvements over LCD and even plasma, but motion resolution is not one of them. Plasmas still lead in that category, especially with 24p content. With 60p content LCDs look much, much better than with 24p.

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post #1130 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 04:16 PM
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He is a Photographer and photographers are going to definitely be more in favor of extra resolution and liquid Cristal display.

I'm out everyone have a great day.
Yes and no...

As a photographer, I recognize the limits of human vision and how that pertains to image size and resolution. I also appreciate what contrast can do for the apparent realism of an image, whether it's on screen or in print.

If I watch a slideshow of my images, I prefer to view that in a dark room on my new F5300 plasma. However, most of the time I use my Vizio LCD as my primary monitor, I "prefer" it during the daytime, and the lack of image retention is a big plus. I'd definitely like a UHDTV to replace the Vizio, the added resolution is a true boon for computing.

Fwiw I'm not just a photographer, I'm also a videographer. I'm looking forward to testing out 4K video and comparing it to the same footage downscaled and displayed on a HDTV.

So. What do you use for watching TV and movies these days? Your new Samsung Plasma or your Vizio LCd?
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post #1131 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 04:29 PM
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OLED suffers from similar motion-related issues to LCD because like LCD it is a sample-and-hold display technology. OLED offers a lot of cool image quality improvements over LCD and even plasma, but motion resolution is not one of them. Plasmas still lead in that category, especially with 24Ppcontent. With 60p content LCDs look much, much better than with 24p.
So why I have read that they do not suffer from motion blur or motion lag like LCD.

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post #1132 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 04:40 PM
 
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OLED suffers from similar motion-related issues to LCD because like LCD it is a sample-and-hold display technology. OLED offers a lot of cool image quality improvements over LCD and even plasma, but motion resolution is not one of them. Plasmas still lead in that category, especially with 24Ppcontent. With 60p content LCDs look much, much better than with 24p.
So why I have read that they do not suffer from motion blur or motion lag like LCD.
They have faster response times, so you still get motion blur, but quite a few folks have remarked how it's more natural than similar motion (without compensation) afforded by your average LCD set. I prefer the tradeoff of infinite contrast ratio coupled with a more natural motion blur in my environment (i.e. I could easily sacrifice the better motion rez of the ZT60 for the LG OLED without batting an eyelid). imagic referenced gen 1 anyway....gen 2 should go brighter and be more capable when it comes to blur/decreased motion resolution compensation methods.

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post #1133 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott just posted an article about the HDTVtest shootout, here's the link... HDTVtest Flat-Panel Faceoff Crowns Panasonic Plasma as Best TV

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #1134 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 05:25 PM
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One thing that bothers me of a LCD is that I always see the pixels trying to catch the image and the image gets blurry with a minimum motion ,unless is steady. LCD have many mechanical parts and they keep adding more parts like full array and local dimming to make improvements to the picture.if people think that lcd are not fragile with all this mechanical parts inside ,they are wrong .

This is why I would love to see oled growing not much to add inside this display to make a awesome image.
Moving parts? All the local dimming stuff are is lights, light guides, and software. Not sure what you mean, as it's not a clock. Lol. Both plasmas and LCDs are "fragile" as is most consumer electronic items. If there's some study out there showing more failures among one tech than the other I haven't seen it.
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post #1135 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 05:27 PM
 
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If anything, the failure rate of plasmas is a little higher than that of LCDs. :0 At least that's my recollection from the last several Consumer Reports polls on the matter. I blame heat.

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post #1136 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 05:37 PM
 
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Nope, I can't very well because it's elusive even to me. The motion dynamics are a bit on the complicated side because with sample-and-hold, there are 2 different types of motion blur involved (slow response times versus transitions). Heck, it could just be the infinite contrast ratio that is primarily to blame for these differing impressions concerning motion and less to do with response times.
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post #1137 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 05:38 PM
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I would be nervous buying a 4K display right given the specs are not finished nor is HDCP 2.2. What are you going to do if Blu-ray 4K does doesn't comply with your early 4K display because of HDCP? It's also going to take a long time before there is sufficient content available. I would just sit and wait until all of this gets flushed out. Once it does, I will upgrade my front projector to a 4K model. I think front projector owners are going to by far benefit the most with 4K if we are talking resolution. However, I think even large flat panels can benefit with the expanded color gamut and better compression.


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post #1138 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 05:51 PM
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[quote=sage11x;24990562]
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I've probably seen more 4K than most people and I am a firm believer in what it can do to elevate the picture quality. This has nothing to do with this endless debate on plasma vs LED which will never go anywhere...it never has and it never will.
So let's imagine, for a second, that the ZT60 is an LCD display. None of it's picture quality virtues are changed, mind you, it's just not a plasma anymore. Now the AX800u vs ZT60 debate is no longer a question of plasma vs LCD-- it's now a question of display vs display.

I pick the one with the better contrast, color saturation, motion, uniformity and black levels for watching my Hollywood movies and TV dramas. You pick the one with the the higher resolution and better bright room picture mostly because you have a specific hobby that takes advantage of the extra resolution. (Btw, I look awful in HD and I can't imagine wanting to see myself in UHD-- just a self depreciating look into my self esteem issues )

There-- see, we disagree. I'm sure it's not all we disagree on. Let's not lower this to where some other members who are afraid of differences and things they're unfamiliar with want to take it. Let's just get back to discussing why we feel the way we do.
The ZT60 is not a currently produced display, so your point is moot.

The last I saw, people buy displays that are currently available, not what was on sale last year or two years ago. This is like the guys that kept bringing up Kuros even though they were out of production for years. Enough. That puppy is dead, bury it.

You're happy with your display, keep it, nobody is forcing you to sell it. But you fail to understand that not ALL currently available displays pale in comparison to a ZT60/VT60/F8500. You may think so, many do not. Some have just fine color saturation, motion, black levels etc. But the ZT/VT & F8500 are 1080p displays and will always be 1080p displays. You're not a fan of 4K, we get it.

This discussion proves absolutely nothing. But we'll continue to get pages and pages of these arguments that will sway nobody.
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post #1139 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 05:53 PM
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You have to love Samsung's 'software-based' local dimming - I mean if there was a World Tribunal to bring charges against a company for Crimes Against Display Technology, that marketing fudgification would certainly qualify!
A bit of hyperbole there? Reading most of the reviews, it would see the professional reviewers largely disagree with that. I haven't seen them in a very dark environment, so I withhold personal comment and defer to the reviewers.

But from what I read, it's clear that whatever Samsung is doing or what they call it, it's an improvement.

Perhaps, but only a bit. I mean, algorithms to enhance contrast are fine and that is what Dolby calls High Dynamic Range, for example.


But 'local dimming' has absolutely nothing to do with it and it is borderline dishonest to suggest Samsung has a software-based 'local-dimming' technology that is anything related to true local dimming (which requires dimming backlight brightness on some zones more than others as a minimum, and should really also include some meaningful concept of 'local').


Now we also have curved TVs that are 'more comfortable' to watch.


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Sue them. It is what it is. There are more important things to get upset about.
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post #1140 of 1369 Old 06-15-2014, 05:58 PM
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[My issue is not with software or algorithms - I suspect the 2014 Vizio FALD technology will prove to be superior to the relatively primitive and brute-force FALD technology of the 'last-wave' of FALD (including the Sharp Elite) and most of the credit for that will go to better algorithms and better software (since the full-array local dimming hardware is basically the same, though less expensive).

I'm forever amused by people getting upset about how a manufacturer achieves great PQ. However the Elite did it, the fact remains they DID IT. If this 'brute-force FALD technology' (don't think I've ever heard that used, but whatever), it worked. If you 'think' that Vizio will achieve this in a somehow more 'elegant' way, so be it. But they haven't yet proved a thing.

Give me a ring when they have something other than vaporware that demonstrates this 'elegant' approach to FALD. In the interim I'll just look at the picture and care less how what I see was achieved...other than a simple interest in the tech behind it.
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