Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with TC-AX800U Series - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1414 Old 06-18-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
I still go back to the days when monitors were amber and ID'd as Lucky Goldstar - they've come a long way. Truy interested in how they price the larger models above 55".
People forget that Zenith became LG. Zenith, during its glory days, was one of the most highly respected brands there were.

My first HDTV was a 64" Zenith RPTV. It was great.
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post #1172 of 1414 Old 06-18-2014, 10:35 AM
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It seems LG may have a lock on OLED until Samsung manages to perhaps pirate and improve their own - this wouldn't be the first time they've done this and later paid a price in court.
I bet LG is sitting pretty high right now
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post #1173 of 1414 Old 06-18-2014, 11:35 PM
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If you add cost to the equation, plasma remains a no-brainer for cinephiles. The filterless F53000 is not even that bad in a bright room, the blacks wash out but it's plenty bright. Mostly, having a LCD side-by-side with a plasma reminds me that there are two sides to the argument, and it's all to easy to lose sight of that.
I don't want to veer this thread too far off-course, but on the same token I came in here to see some fierce talk about how amazing this Panasonic is and two pages back it's barely even been mentioned, if at all.

So that said, I can not agree with you more about the F5300. I just picked up one of the 1999 EA9800 OLEDs from MicroCenter and I haven't even taken it out of the box yet. Even at 8 grand off the original MSRP of the LG, it's going to be TOUGH to beat the *bang for the buck* equation of my 51F5300. We also have an F8500, and I've had a Pro-141 and ZT60 pass through my hands over the past year and none of them, not a single one has put the smile on my face for the money spent my F5300 has. And the biggest irony is I didn't even get anywhere near the deal on my F5300 I did on all the other sets. Perhaps a measly 50 bucks off SRP.

It's in a room with two big windows (albeit with mini blinds over them in a closed position, but PLENTY of light still filters in) to the side and slightly off and behind it, and the performance NEVER suffers for the type of watching I do. I just can't praise this simple, boring, low end little plasma enough for what it is. The low end Pannys of the final gen, were they still available, would be equally as high in praise if not more, except that of course they're gone, and they're more susceptible to IR in any series.

The only other remaining thing left to ship this year that has my interest piqued is the Vizio Reference series. As a first gen high end product, though, I am thinking there will be trade-offs discovered by the early adopters.
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post #1174 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't want to veer this thread too far off-course, but on the same token I came in here to see some fierce talk about how amazing this Panasonic is and two pages back it's barely even been mentioned, if at all.

So that said, I can not agree with you more about the F5300. I just picked up one of the 1999 EA9800 OLEDs from MicroCenter and I haven't even taken it out of the box yet. Even at 8 grand off the original MSRP of the LG, it's going to be TOUGH to beat the *bang for the buck* equation of my 51F5300. We also have an F8500, and I've had a Pro-141 and ZT60 pass through my hands over the past year and none of them, not a single one has put the smile on my face for the money spent my F5300 has. And the biggest irony is I didn't even get anywhere near the deal on my F5300 I did on all the other sets. Perhaps a measly 50 bucks off SRP.

It's in a room with two big windows (albeit with mini blinds over them in a closed position, but PLENTY of light still filters in) to the side and slightly off and behind it, and the performance NEVER suffers for the type of watching I do. I just can't praise this simple, boring, low end little plasma enough for what it is. The low end Pannys of the final gen, were they still available, would be equally as high in praise if not more, except that of course they're gone, and they're more susceptible to IR in any series.

The only other remaining thing left to ship this year that has my interest piqued is the Vizio Reference series. As a first gen high end product, though, I am thinking there will be trade-offs discovered by the early adopters.
Yeah the F5300 looks great when it's doing it's thing, the price/performance ratio is amazing and I'm actually glad to have a NSA-proof TV.

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post #1175 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yeah the F5300 looks great when it's doing it's thing, the price/performance ratio is amazing and I'm actually glad to have a NSA-proof TV. There's not much more to say about the AX800U before I get my hands on a review unit.
Well Mark Panasonic AX-800U are going to start shipping these TV's in the USA, for myself I like Plasma and Led TV's but if Panasonic can Led look as good Plasma I'm for it. Last week I took my Plasma out of my bedroom I do this every summer it make my room to hot to bare with so I still have the Sony XBR-8 even tho, it's not 3D or 4k as for clouding or banding effects which hardly I see with this TV, But a lot of the new ones who are out now I can see that just about all of them so for right now I have go with Sony. But for rest of you guys mad with Mark about Panasonic about there Plasma TV's call or write Panasonic corporate office and should have done this when rumors came out, not with Imagic Mark because he is on the move on mood.
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post #1176 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
People forget that Zenith became LG. Zenith, during its glory days, was one of the most highly respected brands there were.

My first HDTV was a 64" Zenith RPTV. It was great.
While going to college on the GI Bill back in the 70's I managed an appliance store and easily our best TV was Zenith CRT Color and at the time the largest was 27" tuber that eventually got trumped when Sony came on the scene - that demo's how far we've come in our lifetimes when I started viewing in the 50's in B/W and then freaky color and a mere 3-4 channels to what we have today that often surpasses theatrical with nearly unlimited channels, streaming, wifi, gaming, skype, et al.

At 63 now, I grew up with TV's invention/evolution and often younger members lack a concept of how far we've come since the 50's transitioning of my parents with the big living room radio and the infancy of weird small tube TV to these amazing 65-85" All-in-one Entertainment panels - Zenith did rule for a long period in the 60's-70's.

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post #1177 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 09:20 AM
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I really don't want to do this again. Read the thread title and read through the thread. His post don't come of as an opinion.

Based on how he arrived at his conclusion how can his post not be anything other than his opinion. Actually, "professional" reviews are nothing but opinions outside of objective measurements, which don't always further someone's enjoyment of their display.

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post #1178 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
There's not much more to say about the AX800U before I get my hands on a review unit.
You mean one of the handpicked units that doesn't have the same uniformity problems as the AX800s everyone else will get?
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post #1179 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yeah the F5300 looks great when it's doing it's thing, the price/performance ratio is amazing and I'm actually glad to have a NSA-proof TV. There's not much more to say about the AX800U before I get my hands on a review unit.
Haha! I remember when I was playing with my new VT60 on the first day after setting it up and I'm just pushing buttons when all of a sudden I hear a click and look up to see myself IN the television. I had inadvertently activated the 'video message' function and was now primed to record myself with the small camera that had deployed just above the screen.... So creepy.
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post #1180 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's an update...

I'll have a AX800U in my own studio by next Friday, I'm looking forward to exposing its weaknesses and highlighting its strengths. It should be fun.
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post #1181 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You mean one of the handpicked units that doesn't have the same uniformity problems as the AX800s everyone else will get?
Sure. But the F5300 experience is about that... what you get at your local store. Consumer Reports is just about the only place you'll find a store-bought TV put under the microscope using the same methodology as every other TV, allowing you to compare them in a systematic manner.

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post #1182 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 10:10 AM
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You mean one of the handpicked units that doesn't have the same uniformity problems as the AX800s everyone else will get?
haha exactly. I was very interested in this set until actual end users were getting their sets and reporting the same clouding and banding and other issues as everything else out there.

ROB
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post #1183 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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haha exactly. I was very interested in this set until actual end users were getting their sets and reporting the same clouding and banding and other issues as everything else out there.
That's an interesting cop-out, the "hand-picked set" thing. Basically, I can't win with the skeptics. What I do find funny, is that when I see faults in my plasma, I'm told I'm being to picky by the same people who thought Panasonic fooled me at the presentation. Suddenly, I should have been saving for a F8500, because you know, low-end plasma isn't good enough... Pentile patterns suck, and etc. Skepticism is healthy, so is debate—outright cynicism is not as useful. What percentage of AX800Us do you think are defective? Can you actually ascertain that by reading forum posts? Are you sure I won't find flaws in the unit I receive?
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post #1184 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Here's an update...

I'll have a AX800U in my own studio by next Friday, I'm looking forward to exposing its weaknesses and highlighting its strengths. It should be fun.
Excellent.
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post #1185 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That's an interesting cop-out, the "hand-picked set" thing. Basically, I can't win with the skeptics. What I do find funny, is that when I see faults in my plasma, I'm told I'm being to picky by the same people who thought Panasonic fooled me at the presentation. Suddenly, I should have been saving for a F8500, because you know, low-end plasma isn't good enough... Pentile patterns suck, and etc. Skepticism is healthy, so is debate—outright cynicism is not as useful. What percentage of AX800Us do you think are defective? Can you actually ascertain that by reading forum posts? Are you sure I won't find flaws in the unit I receive?
Well, you seemed quite impressed with the uniformity of the AX800 you saw at Panasonic's event. Forum posters haven't been so impressed with the ones they've received. Something accounts for that difference. Myself, I wouldn't bet on it being luck of the draw.
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post #1186 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That's an interesting cop-out, the "hand-picked set" thing. Basically, I can't win with the skeptics. What I do find funny, is that when I see faults in my plasma, I'm told I'm being to picky by the same people who thought Panasonic fooled me at the presentation. Suddenly, I should have been saving for a F8500, because you know, low-end plasma isn't good enough... Pentile patterns suck, and etc. Skepticism is healthy, so is debate—outright cynicism is not as useful. What percentage of AX800Us do you think are defective? Can you actually ascertain that by reading forum posts? Are you sure I won't find flaws in the unit I receive?
Huh? Who is trashing you? I'm not. I am merely going by what owners of the same set have reported with their AX800s. How is that some shot at you? It's a shot at Panasonic (and other companies) for handpicking sets to send to reviewers and people in the industry. I hope they don't send you a handpicked set. Do you really think companies when they set up things like the showing you got would just pick any old set off the line? Surely you aren't that naive.

But you may be correct....all the owners of AX800s who have reported the same issues are the exception and all other AX800s are perfect and are free or artifacts that are generally accepted as being on almost every edge lit set to one degree or another.

Going forward I shall discount the reports and observations of everyone else when it comes to an item I am interested in and just go by what you say or see.

Interesting you take my comment as something like "Mark is a moron and lied about the set he saw or can't see obvious problems" but I guess maybe with the shots you've taken the last month you are a bit defensive.
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post #1187 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
Huh? Who is trashing you? I'm not. I am merely going by what owners of the same set have reported with their AX800s. How is that some shot at you? It's a shot at Panasonic (and other companies) for handpicking sets to send to reviewers and people in the industry. I hope they don't send you a handpicked set. Do you really think companies when they set up things like the showing you got would just pick any old set off the line? Surely you aren't that naive.

But you may be correct....all the owners of AX800s who have reported the same issues are the exception and all other AX800s are perfect and are free or artifacts that are generally accepted as being on almost every edge lit set to one degree or another.

Going forward I shall discount the reports and observations of everyone else when it comes to an item I am interested in and just go by what you say or see.
People come to AVS to troubleshoot, of course you're going to see people who have issues. Nevertheless, there's no way you can extrapolate what you find in AVS threads to every TV owner out there. I really have no idea what the defect rate is.

Basically, I do expect a company to make sure it does not send a defective product to a reviewer. And, I expect customers with issues to try and work them out.
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post #1188 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting you take my comment as something like "Mark is a moron and lied about the set he saw or can't see obvious problems" but I guess maybe with the shots you've taken the last month you are a bit defensive.
No problem, you are right I did get a bit defensive... sorry about that.

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post #1189 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 12:35 PM
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I very much hope that most AX800s won't have any issues as I still have it on my shortlist and it'd be a great thing for the industry if a consistent amount of edge lit sets of a specific model were mainly issue free. I just get the feeling that isn't the case and most will be just like the U.S and European users and reviewers have reported.

ROB

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post #1190 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Here's an update...

I'll have a AX800U in my own studio by next Friday, I'm looking forward to exposing its weaknesses and highlighting its strengths. It should be fun.
Mark, I think you'll make some much happier around here if you just highlight its weaknesses.
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post #1191 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 06:12 PM
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I am not biased against LED. I am only certain that up to this point it has not been for me because of the issues every set I ever had exhibited. The one shining exception was the Sharp Elite I keep forgetting I also had for a little while. That thing was amazing but my open box demo set had a problem with hotspots on skin tones so I had to take it back. Strangely, because of the way the full array backlight works, I only saw uniformity problems when I was off axis far enough. Dead on there was virtually nothing to complain about other than the hotspot issue.

Because of the durability of LEDs and their lack of IR issues I am still excited for the prospect that a set might come along to impress us all, even those of us who are staunch plasma and OLED lovers. I take a lot of shots at LEDs, but I am not above eating my words if the right product comes along to change my opinion, and that's the beauty of technology.
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post #1192 of 1414 Old 06-19-2014, 11:21 PM
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haha exactly. I was very interested in this set until actual end users were getting their sets and reporting the same clouding and banding and other issues as everything else out there.
Again, not to be a stick on the mud, but are we talking about actual banding ie posterization or are we talking about a backlight uniformity issue everyone has just arbitrarily started calling banding?
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post #1193 of 1414 Old 06-20-2014, 05:06 AM
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Again, not to be a stick on the mud, but are we talking about actual banding ie posterization or are we talking about a backlight uniformity issue everyone has just arbitrarily started calling banding?
Probably neither, banding as in the several inch wide vertical bands that appear in the image. They're most prevalent on gray screens. They're not caused by posterization or backlight uniformity.
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post #1194 of 1414 Old 06-20-2014, 05:21 AM
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Probably neither, banding as in the several inch wide vertical bands that appear in the image. They're most prevalent on gray screens. They're not caused by posterization or backlight uniformity.
In other words: not banding. Thanks.
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post #1195 of 1414 Old 06-20-2014, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark, I think you'll make some much happier around here if you just highlight its weaknesses.
I agree, presumably I should only report on how it performs in a dark room, viewed from the side, and I should restrict myself to 1080p test patterns and videos.

Within those parameters, I do expect my (cheap) plasma to fare quite well versus the AX800U.

Just to elaborate on review samples for a moment, for the benefit of the readers: Review samples get shipped from reviewer to reviewer. It's only logical that a company will make sure the sample they send out is not defective, otherwise a defective product will become the basis of multiple reviews. Since defective products can be returned, exchanged, or repaired it's in everyone's interest to figure out how a product performs when it's functioning properly. Put another way, if a review says that screen uniformity was not an issue with a TV, then if you get a TV that has the issue, you know that you need to get it fixed.
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post #1196 of 1414 Old 06-20-2014, 06:46 AM
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In other words: not banding. Thanks.
No, it's precisely banding. If you have visible vertical bands of non-uniformity in the image what would you call it?
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post #1197 of 1414 Old 06-20-2014, 06:48 AM
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Put another way, if a review says that screen uniformity was not an issue with a TV, then if you get a TV that has the issue, you know that you need to get it fixed.
Except the manufacturer will tell you it's normal and refuse to replace it.
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post #1198 of 1414 Old 06-20-2014, 08:40 AM
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Except the manufacturer will tell you it's normal and refuse to replace it.
Too general a statement. I've had 2 sets replaced for clouding/flashlights over the years.
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post #1199 of 1414 Old 06-20-2014, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
No, it's precisely banding. If you have visible vertical bands of non-uniformity in the image what would you call it?
I don't know: columning, jail bars, crappy LED edge lighting. Something other than a word that already has a clear definition in the AV world!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_banding
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post #1200 of 1414 Old 06-20-2014, 10:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That's an interesting cop-out, the "hand-picked set" thing. Basically, I can't win with the skeptics. What I do find funny, is that when I see faults in my plasma, I'm told I'm being to picky by the same people who thought Panasonic fooled me at the presentation. Suddenly, I should have been saving for a F8500, because you know, low-end plasma isn't good enough... Pentile patterns suck, and etc. Skepticism is healthy, so is debate—outright cynicism is not as useful. What percentage of AX800Us do you think are defective? Can you actually ascertain that by reading forum posts? Are you sure I won't find flaws in the unit I receive?
FYI: The victim routine isn't that becoming. You seriously took offense to me inquiring as to why you didn't purchase a high-end plasma in a completely other thread and forum no less? I was only basing that on the fact that you attended the 2013 shootout and were able to see what they were capable of firsthand. I never made a remark about pentile screens (haven't seen one nor had experience with one to provide an impression one way or other).
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