Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with TC-AX800U Series - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 09:42 AM
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Hi Mark. I'm assuming that you will be checking out 3D content for ghosting, etc? I'm in the market for a good HTPC 4K TV with good 3D movie rendering.
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post #1262 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 09:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
Mark,

Having seen numerous demo's of 4K panels none of which is plasma how can you even consider a plasma in 4K territory? This confuses me as I witnessed LG 4K content the other day that was stunning and I can assure you NO Plasma has EVER presented anything as stunning as 4K - no way no how not even close and I was viewing it in the brightest area of the room.

My point is consumers are buying 4K for it's upscaling and 4K Future content and it's NO CONTEST regardless of what your measuring tools say plasma 1080P will put you to sleep while the 4K knocks your socks off.

Has this thread turned from your original thoughts to pandering to the old allegiance of plasma when plasma simply can't do what a 4K panel does easily next gen better and I saw your Samsung plasma at BB the other day and it looked horrendous and talk about bad viewing angles as they had it in the lower rack and it reminded me of the old days looking at an RPTV from above when they discarded them to the aisle space and looking down angle was putrid on the Samsung plasma or perhaps BB fimds they are low profit and are giving then the treatment they gave RPTV when they became dino's. It just seems you started this thread after being impressed and it seems the plasma Chinese water torture has you pandering to the plasma fans.

Are we to believe you'd compare any plasma to 4K media panel? Me thinks your original thoughts are far more genuine and giving in to plasma pressure and in defiance of what 4K looks comparatively it's a no brainer and wheres your credibility if you testify that a 1080P plasma can outperform an LCD playing 4K defies the math and one's eyeball senses.
Why is it so unfathomable to consider that picture quality doesn't start and end with resolution? It's not a conspiracy theory, really.
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post #1263 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CyberScott View Post
Hi Mark. I'm assuming that you will be checking out 3D content for ghosting, etc? I'm in the market for a good HTPC 4K TV with good 3D movie rendering.
Yes I will absolutely check out 3D. Both Blu-ray and from my PC.

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post #1264 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 10:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
That's what's happening. I took the comments and criticisms leveled at me in this thread to heart; early in the comments I mentioned that if my initial observations were incorrect, I'd report on that. In my own home I have the ability to perform a proper calibration and use any content that I want when testing a TV. Depending on the content, viewing position, and lighting levels, the AX800U and the F8500 can look very similar, or very different. It's not going to be a simple review. However there's no doubt about how well the F8500 handles 1080/24p content; various Kuro models, the VT60/ZT60, and the F8500 are three of the best HDTVs ever made—that's clearer than ever now.
Thanks for your honesty, fella. It seems incongruous as of late with the thread title, but that is neither here nor there, and anyone who's been following the saga knows your intention is to not blow smoke up anybody's behind.
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post #1265 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 10:08 AM
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[QUOTE=imagic;25356418]I do plan to game with it, especially since I have a DisplayPort-equipped, 4K-capable video card (ATI Radeon R9 200 series). I don't expect miracles from that card; even so, when I write my review I'll definitely comment on that aspect of gaming, as well as what it's like using it as a 1080p gaming display.[/QUOTEAs



As I said I have the 4K Seiki that I use as a monitor. And although I have a powerful PC gaming at 4K is a strain. What I did was make a custom resolution of 2560X1440P @72HZ and 1920X1080P @120 HZ. aAt 39in it is the largest true 120HZ monitor or 2K monitor available, that I am aware of.It is also the best gaming screen I have ever had bar none.


I can only imagine that your display having display port and I am sure a WAY better image that you could get a really nice custom resolution like 2560X1440P @120 hz. That would be insane. Gaming @120 hz is just so nice, but so is having all those pixels, the combo is gamers bliss in my opinion.

http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Th...on-Utility-CRU

James Reid:D

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post #1266 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
OK, I just had a realization about dark-room comparative TV demos—like the one I attended in NYC but also used by many reviewers and TV shootouts. In Panasonic's NYC demo, the two TVs that flanked the AX800U act like an aggressive bias light—the result of that was blacks appeared deepest on the TV in the middle. I suspect any TV comparison where one TV is framed by two others will be flawed as a result of the well-documented effects of bias lighting on perceived contrast. In a lineup of more than three TVs, the ones on the ends will be at a disadvantage versus the ones in the middle. That's my theory.
Interesting. You may be on to something there.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #1267 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
So is this 'banding' issue with the vertical jail-bar looking stripes a result of the back light or something to do with the LCD panel itself? If this is an issue on both Sony and Panasonic models does that mean sony and panasonic are sharing a manufacturer or is it a bigger issue with 4k itself?
All LED's have had banding issues to some degree since the beginning of time, will not stop till the end of time either the way things look..........
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post #1268 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yes I will absolutely check out 3D. Both Blu-ray and from my PC.
Excellent! I look forward to your findings.
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post #1269 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 06:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
Why is it so unfathomable to consider that picture quality doesn't start and end with resolution? It's not a conspiracy theory, really.
Why is it so unfathomable to consider that picture quality doesn't start and end with black level? It's not a conspiracy theory, really.

See what I did there? So westa6969 deems resolution the most important criteria for him. You don't. So what? No need for snark. Move on. Unless you are planning on buying his next TV for him...
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post #1270 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I do plan to game with it, especially since I have a DisplayPort-equipped, 4K-capable video card (ATI Radeon R9 200 series). I don't expect miracles from that card; even so, when I write my review I'll definitely comment on that aspect of gaming, as well as what it's like using it as a 1080p gaming display.

I'd really like to know how well the 1080p pixel by 4pixel setting works and if its available for 720p sources (9pixel!).
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post #1271 of 1424 Old 06-29-2014, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rgb32 View Post
I'd really like to know how well the 1080p pixel by 4pixel setting works and if its available for 720p sources (9pixel!).
1080p pixel by 4 pixel is a must for use with a PC, IMO but it certainly works for any kind of 1080p content. It makes the 1080p image look exactly as sharp as it looks on my F8500, which is a good thing. IMO upscaling makes everything look a bit blurrier and messes up text.

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post #1272 of 1424 Old 06-30-2014, 01:17 AM
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it's not a plasma or CRT so they have motion blur problems.
this review says it has some very good motion with frame interpolation...( and artifacts too)
Quote:
Motion resolution 1080 lines (or higher) with [Intelligent Frame Creation] “Mid” or “Max
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/tx-50...1405193778.htm

without it most likely as terrible as any other LCD without BFI, backlight scanning or image interpolation
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post #1273 of 1424 Old 06-30-2014, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
AFAIK it will be in Best Buy.

My main comment on it at this point is: "It's the computer monitor of my dreams."
I'll second this with my 58" version though I've only had it setup for a day.
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post #1274 of 1424 Old 06-30-2014, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
1080p pixel by 4 pixel is a must for use with a PC, IMO but it certainly works for any kind of 1080p content. It makes the 1080p image look exactly as sharp as it looks on my F8500, which is a good thing. IMO upscaling makes everything look a bit blurrier and messes up text.

Mark, with the set having Display Port, why would you run a PC at 1080p? I understand other content like blu ray or game consoles turning on the pixel by 4 pixel, but anyone that owns this set, there would be no reason to run it at 1080p versus display port and 4k. Just seems counter intuitive to why they included the display port.

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post #1275 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
Mark, with the set having Display Port, why would you run a PC at 1080p? I understand other content like blu ray or game consoles turning on the pixel by 4 pixel, but anyone that owns this set, there would be no reason to run it at 1080p versus display port and 4k. Just seems counter intuitive to why they included the display port.
If you have any interest in playing games at very high frame rates, 1080p is still your friend. That said, I'm using it as a true 4K display, and that's definitely what I recommend for most PC use. I merely pointed out that upscaling does the desktop no favors, while 1080p pixel by 4pixels mode makes the 1080p desktop look great, so when a PC needs to be set at 1080p (for whatever reason) that's the mode to use.

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post #1276 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 09:17 AM
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FlatPanelsHD >Plasma is officially DEAD! (7/1/14)

"Samsung has now confirmed in a regulatory filing that the last plasma TV will be produced this November. Samsung has decided to pull out now because of “falling demand for plasma TVs”.

- "While reusable facilities and parts from the PDP production lines will be utilized for the battery business, others will be sold to other firms for cash," said Lee Seung-jun, a communications official from Samsung SDI.

That leaves LG as the only plasma TV maker, but LG already stopped producing high-end plasma TVs a few years ago. Industry watchers say that LG will also discontinue its plasma business in the near future.

Plasma is officially dead."


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post #1277 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 09:47 AM
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I see a lot about bad viewing angles. I have to say on my 58" it looks quite good at up to about 45deg off center after that the far side of the screen fades a bit but is still quite readable (in Windows) up to near 90deg off. Way better than my old Sony clf 40" set. For the less critical members of the audience sitting up to around 60-70 degs probably won't be a problem as the fading is only at the far edge, for quality nuts well you'll want to stay in the 45deg sweet spot.
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post #1278 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
"Samsung has now confirmed in a regulatory filing that the last plasma TV will be produced this November. Samsung has decided to pull out now because of “falling demand for plasma TVs”.

- "While reusable facilities and parts from the PDP production lines will be utilized for the battery business, others will be sold to other firms for cash," said Lee Seung-jun, a communications official from Samsung SDI.

That leaves LG as the only plasma TV maker, but LG already stopped producing high-end plasma TVs a few years ago. Industry watchers say that LG will also discontinue its plasma business in the near future.

Plasma is officially dead."


You seem a little too happy about having one less choice in the market. Even though I know you're a die hard LCD lover, competition in the market is a good thing. Plasma gave the LCD sets something to aspire to.
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post #1279 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 04:21 PM
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You seem a little too happy about having one less choice in the market. Even though I know you're a die hard LCD lover, competition in the market is a good thing. Plasma gave the LCD sets something to aspire to.
Don't bother, this one is beyond reasoning with. I heard that when he was a younger man a gang of misfit plasmas murdered his family. To him, all plasmas are bad plasmas. It's a shame really...
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post #1280 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
Don't bother, this one is beyond reasoning with. I heard that when he was a younger man a gang of misfit plasmas murdered his family. To him, all plasmas are bad plasmas. It's a shame really...
Was it in an alley when they were leaving the theater?
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post #1281 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 06:42 PM
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Have not seen AX-800 but the Sony XBR-950B has very natural picture, one of BB stores had one by itself, to me it look like a Plasma TV.
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post #1282 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone who's having clouding issue with their AX800U—have you tried rubbing the screen lightly with a soft cloth? I was shocked to see how much that simple act improved the screen on the review unit. It made an immediate and obvious improvement in screen uniformity.

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post #1283 of 1424 Old 07-01-2014, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Anyone who's having clouding issue with their AX800U—have you tried rubbing the screen lightly with a soft cloth? I was shocked to see how much that simple act improved the screen on the review unit. It made an immediate and obvious improvement in screen uniformity.
Hi,

After reading the review and this thread, I bought an 65AX800 some weeks ago as a replacement of my 65vt50 that had burnt in...
When watching the World Cup I noticed that my ax800 has some banding issues. At around 1/3 and 1/2 from the left there is are vertical strips from top to bottom. The first of those is most noticeable.
I actually did a request to have a technician of Panasonic's repair-services to come over to check if this falls within the specifications from Panasonic (they said they were happy to come over and check this). He made some pictures and after a day the reply was that Panasonic said this is within specs...
I must say that when watching normal content, you can't see the banding unless the screen consists of one color (grey, green some thing like that, see attchement).

There is not much clouding, but this rubbing of the screen looks something worth trying


Thanks,
Jeroen
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post #1284 of 1424 Old 07-02-2014, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroen_v View Post
Hi,

After reading the review and this thread, I bought an 65AX800 some weeks ago as a replacement of my 65vt50 that had burnt in...
When watching the World Cup I noticed that my ax800 has some banding issues. At around 1/3 and 1/2 from the left there is are vertical strips from top to bottom. The first of those is most noticeable.
I actually did a request to have a technician of Panasonic's repair-services to come over to check if this falls within the specifications from Panasonic (they said they were happy to come over and check this). He made some pictures and after a day the reply was that Panasonic said this is within specs...
I must say that when watching normal content, you can't see the banding unless the screen consists of one color (grey, green some thing like that, see attchement).

There is not much clouding, but this rubbing of the screen looks something worth trying


Thanks,
Jeroen
That is a bummer. I am surprised Panasonic considers that acceptable for their flagship TV. That picture is disappointing for both black level and uniformity.

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post #1285 of 1424 Old 07-02-2014, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I've left the world of 1080p behind, as far as the AX800U is concerned. The rest of what I do, until Panasonic takes the TV back, will involve 4K. The moment I put a full-resolution photo up on screen, the TV turned into something else. The impact of the extra resolution is quite profound when you are close to the screen, as is the case when using it as a monitor. It looks profound, and in that specific application (viewed close-up, head-on) it blows the F8500 plasma sitting right next to it away, even though there is a loss of contrast and saturation. The added detail is notable. And, I've never seen Chrome, or AVS Forum, look so clean and sharp.

Moral of the story: 4K is awesome. Where are the movies?

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post #1286 of 1424 Old 07-02-2014, 08:52 AM
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post #1287 of 1424 Old 07-02-2014, 09:03 AM
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You are returning the Panasonic 4K ?
It's a review sample, so I'd hope he doesn't plan to keep it.
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post #1288 of 1424 Old 07-02-2014, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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It's a review sample, so I'd hope he doesn't plan to keep it.
I have it for ten more days. Today is the day I perform a full calibration for dark room movie watching, on the 4K HDMI input. I plan to get it within an inch of where I brought the F8500, or die trying. I suspect what will emerge will look a lot better than what I have seen so far.

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post #1289 of 1424 Old 07-02-2014, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^
Calibration went extraordinarily well. The AX800U is capable of displaying a reference-quality image.

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post #1290 of 1424 Old 07-02-2014, 12:33 PM
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^^^
Calibration went extraordinarily well. The AX800U is capable of displaying a reference-quality image.
lies. all lies. it's an edge lit LCD, aka inferior technology barely worthy to be displayed in my kitchen. plasma rulez!!!
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