Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with TC-AX800U Series - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1291 of 1425 Old 07-02-2014, 12:33 PM
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So Mark, how did it compare to the calibrated F8500? Comparisons in dim/dark & bright rooms would be great.
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post #1292 of 1425 Old 07-02-2014, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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So Mark, how did it compare to the calibrated F8500? Comparisons in dim/dark & bright rooms would be great.
I'll put it all together in a review. The best way I can put it for noe, is that 4K is fascinating. Since the only (remotely) affordable way to get a 4K TV is with an LCD, I welcome 4K LCD. But in a dark room, playing a Blu-ray... the F8500 looks better. However, the difference when the AX800U is viewed head-on is slight now that I've calibrated it. The main difference is how deep the blacks are on the F8500. The AX800U can't touch that. Otherwise, I actually feel relieved. Yesterday I'd almost given up hope. Today, I was looking at some 16 megapixel photos on the AX800U—close up, as with a computer monitor—and it was absolutely fascinating, beautiful, and clearly something 1080p TVs cannot replicate.

In a dim room, post calibration, viewed head-on, there's precious little that separates the AX800U and the F8500. That's the environment where the extra resolution kick of UHD/4K "elevates" the AX800U's image quality above any 1080p plasma IMO. Without 4K content, it's hard to see the point of buying such a pricey TV unless you need the perfect color accuracy it is capable of. Viewed from the side, the difference tilts significantly in the F8500's favor. Then again, vertical viewing angles on the F8500 are restricted—althoough that's a non-issue for me.

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post #1293 of 1425 Old 07-02-2014, 04:14 PM
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Mark-


You had mentioned to me in another thread or perhaps this one about lightly rubbing the screen due to the banding. When you did this, did you notice if the banding improved on your test set?

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post #1294 of 1425 Old 07-02-2014, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Mark-


You had mentioned to me in another thread or perhaps this one about lightly rubbing the screen due to the banding. When you did this, did you notice if the banding improved on your test set?
Yes rubbing the screen helped, and after a full-proper calibration I'm actually quite impressed with the end result.

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post #1295 of 1425 Old 07-02-2014, 04:24 PM
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Yes rubbing the screen helped, and after a full-proper calibration I'm actually quite impressed with the end result.
Are you going to evaluate on Blu-Ray and HDTV performance or just 4K?
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post #1296 of 1425 Old 07-02-2014, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you going to evaluate on Blu-Ray and HDTV performance or just 4K?
I'm doing both HD and UHD testing, for sure. 2D, 3D, Blu-ray, Vudu, gaming, Photoshop, 4K slide shows, YouTube... anything I can do with the AX800U, I will.

For my PC experience, I'm sticking with 4K, I have plenty of 1080p computing to look forward to after the AX800U is gone.

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post #1297 of 1425 Old 07-02-2014, 05:34 PM
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Yes rubbing the screen helped, and after a full-proper calibration I'm actually quite impressed with the end result.
Thanks for the reply Mark. So to be clear...When you first powered up the set you saw banding, but after you did the rubbing you noticed the banding less? I am not a techie person when it comes to the tech behind these screens, but just curious as to why rubbing the screen makes the banding issues get better.


Panasonic has been pretty amazing with me and my latest update is that they picked a set out of 5 different ones that has the best performance, banding wise. As of today, they plan to drive it to me next Tuesday. The tech himself is coming and they want to check out my set first. If they feel that my set's banding is a lot more than the one they are bringing, they will set up the new one and take the old one. However, if they feel that the banding on my unit is equal or better than theirs I earthier decide to keep it or get a refund.


I have not tried the rubbing method because I had boxed it up, but will be opening and setting it up again in the next few days since they want to check it out. If you have done the rubbing and your banding was reduced, I am going to give it a shot when I set it up again.
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post #1298 of 1425 Old 07-03-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
Thanks for the reply Mark. So to be clear...When you first powered up the set you saw banding, but after you did the rubbing you noticed the banding less? I am not a techie person when it comes to the tech behind these screens, but just curious as to why rubbing the screen makes the banding issues get better.


Panasonic has been pretty amazing with me and my latest update is that they picked a set out of 5 different ones that has the best performance, banding wise. As of today, they plan to drive it to me next Tuesday. The tech himself is coming and they want to check out my set first. If they feel that my set's banding is a lot more than the one they are bringing, they will set up the new one and take the old one. However, if they feel that the banding on my unit is equal or better than theirs I earthier decide to keep it or get a refund.


I have not tried the rubbing method because I had boxed it up, but will be opening and setting it up again in the next few days since they want to check it out. If you have done the rubbing and your banding was reduced, I am going to give it a shot when I set it up again.
Not to be difficult but I think if they told me that I'd tell them thanks but no thanks. The issue sounds like a batch defect at best and a systemic problem at worst. I think I'd hang back a year and see if they can sort this out in a future model. From one AVSer to another: it's hard to 'unsee' things once they've been seen. Just ask Mark about that magenta tint at the bottom of his 5300 or any one of countless S30 owners who never got a fix for the dreaded ABL issue those sets had.

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post #1299 of 1425 Old 07-03-2014, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Not to be difficult but I think if they told me that I'd tell them thanks but no thanks. The issue sounds like a batch defect at best and a systemic problem at worst. I think I'd hang back a year and see if they can sort this out in a future model. From one AVSer to another: it's hard to 'unsee' things once they've been seen. Just ask Mark about that magenta tint at the bottom of his 5300 or any one of countless S30 owners who never got a fix for the dreaded ABL issue those sets had.
Yes, I agree that PQ flaws are impossible to "unsee." Therefor, if something sticks out, avoid it. For example, I can't stand it when I see local dimming at work. On the other hand, I can deal with the occasional "rainbow" effect and flickering I see with plasmas. What I do find a bit hard to reconcile—but is absolutely true—is that my two year old Vizio M3D550KD has visibly superior (although not by much) screen uniformity to the AX800U I'm reviewing. I actually blame that Vizio for "spoiling" me when it comes to LED-lit LCDs. Of course it's no good in the dark—that's why I bought a plamsa after all—but during the day it's actually quite impressive.

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post #1300 of 1425 Old 07-03-2014, 10:51 AM
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For example, I can't stand it when I see local dimming at work.
Have you seen any issues with the pseudo local dimming this set does?

Thanks for the comments you have supplied and I am eagerly awaiting your full review/comparison.
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post #1301 of 1425 Old 07-03-2014, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Have you seen any issues with the pseudo local dimming this set does?

Thanks for the comments you have supplied and I am eagerly awaiting your full review/comparison.
Not so far. I have yet to torture-test it though.

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post #1302 of 1425 Old 07-03-2014, 04:36 PM
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Panasonic's Web-Site has both the 65" & 58" 4k AX800's on sale. They were previously listed at $500 Off, but now the 58" is $800 off and the 65" is $1000 off, plus you get a free Panasonic Blu ray player.


http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/viera...dTopNavId=nav1

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post #1303 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 04:05 AM
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Panasonic's Web-Site has both the 65" & 58" 4k AX800's on sale. They were previously listed at $500 Off, but now the 58" is $800 off and the 65" is $1000 off, plus you get a free Panasonic Blu ray player.


http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/viera...dTopNavId=nav1
Thank's for info.
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post #1304 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 04:35 AM
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Anyone who's having clouding issue with their AX800U—have you tried rubbing the screen lightly with a soft cloth? I was shocked to see how much that simple act improved the screen on the review unit. It made an immediate and obvious improvement in screen uniformity.
It is much easier to rub a $4,000 TV with a cloth when you didn't pay for it so if you mark it up or scratch it, no biggie because it ain't yours.

I cringe every time I lightly dust my VT60 with a swiffer duster, I can't imagine having to put pressure down on the TV on large areas of the screen. I would stress that I ruined some pixels or something else on the TV every day after doing that.
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post #1305 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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It is much easier to rub a $4,000 TV with a cloth when you didn't pay for it so if you mark it up or scratch it, no biggie because it ain't yours.

I cringe every time I lightly dust my VT60 with a swiffer duster, I can't imagine having to put pressure down on the TV on large areas of the screen. I would stress that I ruined some pixels or something else on the TV every day after doing that.
I also clean the screens on the TVs that I do own, not just review units! I've lost count of all the flat panels I've rubbed/cleaned over the years. It's certainly not something that causes me stress. My open-box F8500 required a fair bit of cleaning to get it spotless. Every now and then, all TV screens need a cleaning. Plasma screen are made of glass, rubbing them will have no effect on the underlying pixels.
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post #1306 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 04:59 AM
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I also clean the screens on the TVs that I do own, not just review units! I've lost count of all the flat panels I've rubbed/cleaned over the years. It's certainly not something that causes me stress. My open-box F8500 required a fair bit of cleaning to get it spotless. Every now and then, all TV screens need a cleaning. Plasma screen are made of glass, rubbing them will have no effect on the underlying pixels.
A lot folk don't know how to clean the screen properly.
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post #1307 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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A lot folk don't know how to clean the screen properly.
Aside from using excessive pressure or a dirty cloth, there's not much that you can do wrong by gently rubbing a screen. That's basic maintenance. Panasonic has some advice on cleaning screens that I found quite easily using Google, for those who don't know:

-Wipe the panel surface gently using only a cleaning cloth or a soft, lint-free cloth.

-If the surface is particularly dirty, soak a soft, lint-free cloth in a weak detergent solution and then wring the cloth to remove excess liquid. Use this cloth to wipe the surface of the display panel. Then wipe it evenly with a dry cloth, of the same type, until the surface is dry.

-Do not scratch or hit the surface of the panel with fingernails or other hard objects. Furthermore, avoid contact with volatile substances such as insect sprays, solvents and thinner; otherwise, the quality of the surface may be adversely affected.

-There are also specific cleaners on the market designed for cleaning Plasma and LCD TVs which can be purchased at various electronic dealers.
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post #1308 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 06:16 AM
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I also clean the screens on the TVs that I do own, not just review units! I've lost count of all the flat panels I've rubbed/cleaned over the years. It's certainly not something that causes me stress. My open-box F8500 required a fair bit of cleaning to get it spotless. Every now and then, all TV screens need a cleaning. Plasma screen are made of glass, rubbing them will have no effect on the underlying pixels.
You my friend are a brave soul.
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post #1309 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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You my friend are a brave soul.
When I took the THX video calibration class this past January, I noticed that half the TVs there were plasmas. Most of those TVs have been shipping around the world for a few years now, it made me a little less paranoid about their fragility. You don't want to think about what happens to the average TV in transit from Asia to your door. Maybe it's because I'm a photographer, always cleaning camera lenses?

I've never heard of people being afraid to even touch their screens with a cloth; I thought it would be a totally non-controversial suggestion. I guess I'm learning something new.
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post #1310 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 09:24 AM
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When I took the THX video calibration class this past January, I noticed that half the TVs there were plasmas. Most of those TVs have been shipping around the world for a few years now, it made me a little less paranoid about their fragility. You don't want to think about what happens to the average TV in transit from Asia to your door. Maybe it's because I'm a photographer, always cleaning camera lenses?

I've never heard of people being afraid to even touch their screens with a cloth; I thought it would be a totally non-controversial suggestion. I guess I'm learning something new.
It's the same argument you'll see on the thread where someone first suggested the screen rub as a means to greatly reduce clouding/flashlights. I find it strange, personally. The sets are not made of cotton candy and unless you're an idiot or a superhero who has not yet learned to control your powers, you should be fine cleaning it.
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post #1311 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 09:27 AM
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Maybe it's because I'm a photographer, always cleaning camera lenses?
Maybe LensPen should make a giant TV cleaning tool!
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post #1312 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 10:34 AM
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I clean my screens but I hate doing it. Especially the VT as it's edge to edge glass and filter mean making a mistake will be far more noticeable.
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I've never heard of people being afraid to even touch their screens with a cloth; I thought it would be a totally non-controversial suggestion.
Yup, what so hard about using microfiber cloth and gentle swirling motion?
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post #1314 of 1425 Old 07-04-2014, 12:54 PM
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I clean my screens but I hate doing it. Especially the VT as it's edge to edge glass and filter mean making a mistake will be far more noticeable.
I've found Windex and a little sandpaper removes all residual dirt.
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When I was moving my set upstairs I was so careful but when I got to the top I parked it for it bit. Well of course one of the dogs had to investigate and managed to push it over so it hit the wall with a pretty good thunk. No problems though it lived (the dog too though if she'd broken it...). If they were too delicate to clean I can't imagine them surviving the vagaries of shipping, the carton mine came in was full of holes and the Styrofoam packing was broken. But it works and looks perfect. BTW those of you having trouble with the 65", I don't suppose you'd consider stepping down to the oh so tiny 58", no I guess not...does seem like there are fewer problems reported by people with the 58" and 50" models.
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post #1316 of 1425 Old 07-05-2014, 07:43 AM
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Yes rubbing the screen helped, and after a full-proper calibration I'm actually quite impressed with the end result.
Lol! I don't know why but I find this hilarious. You'd think if you were dropping this much coin on a 4k set that the manufacturer would 'pre-rub' it for you!

The big question in my mind is why does rubbing the screen improve the uniformity and is this an indication of the screen not fully bonding with the substrate? Is the rubbing 'fix' temporary-- ie will you need to maintain a schedule of rubbing the set periodically? And finally: will there be specific techniques for this LCD rubdown and if so will ISF calibrators now need to be certified in LCD 'massage'? Ok, that last one was silly but not as silly as the idea of rubbing my four thousand dollar flat screen to improve the picture.

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It's a little funny 4K TV and can not see 4K with Netflix
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post #1318 of 1425 Old 07-05-2014, 09:47 AM
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It's a little funny 4K TV and can not see 4K with Netflix
I thought Mark said they were going to add this in a firmware update?

Not that it matters to me: I max out at 720p on my crummy Comcast connection and even then it constantly falls in and out. Ironically, when I had Uverse my connection was a lot more stable and I maxed out at 1080p. Although, it should be noted that 1080p Netflix is not 1080p bluray-- far from it, in fact. Which is why I'm absolutely ambivelant to 4k Netflix and Youtube. When 4k is available on bluray without heavy compression for a reasonable price then, maybe, I'll consider 4k worth the price. Right now, for those not using their display as a monitor for their hi-po gaming rig or home video collection, 4k is nothing much more than a novelty feature in my opinion. Unfortunatley, all the good stuff going on in the world of LCD right now is happening on the high end with the 4k displays-- so it's a feature you're getting whether or not you want it.
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...And finally: will there be specific techniques for this LCD rubdown and if so will ISF calibrators now need to be certified in LCD 'massage'? Ok, that last one was silly but not as silly as the idea of rubbing my four thousand dollar flat screen to improve the picture.
Yeah when I saw that solution posted here I came to the same conclusion. I'm beginning to wonder if Panasonic should just stick to microwaves and cordless phones from now on out...
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post #1320 of 1425 Old 07-05-2014, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah when I saw that solution posted here I came to the same conclusion. I'm beginning to wonder if Panasonic should just stick to microwaves and cordless phones from now on out...
It worked, as far as I'm concerned that's all that matters. No sign of a relapse, either.

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