To hell with OLED whatever happened to LCOS? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 05-31-2014, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Anybody remember the Sony LCOS KDS-R60XBR1? I've had mine since June 2006 and I'm about to buy the 900B. LCOS was a great technology and then Sony just quit making them. As far as the XBR65X950B goes it is just a redisgn of the XBR65HX950 which if everyone remembers had significant banding issues that were reported in this forum. Does anyone really believe sony learned their lesson and actually fixed the banding problems? For 8K they'd better.

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post #2 of 18 Old 05-31-2014, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Macahan View Post

Anybody remember the Sony LCOS KDS-R60XBR1? I've had mine since June 2006 and I'm about to buy the 900B. LCOS was a great technology and then Sony just quit making them. As far as the XBR65X950B goes it is just a redisgn of the XBR65HX950 which if everyone remembers had significant banding issues that were reported in this forum. Does anyone really believe sony learned their lesson and actually fixed the banding problems? For 8K they'd better.
Sony could not make any money as it took three times the manpower/cost to build the LCOS even after relocating manufacturing to Baja Mexico Tech Zone and far lower labor costs they then shifted to flat panels where more automation can be used and fewer parts needed. Plus over time they developed serious green blob and optical issues that likely has cost Sony the profits they made - longevity of the tech developed serious quality problems.

I owned one for a week because my wife would not tolerate it's fat deep ass in our Family Room but I would say for movie viewing in HD I've never experienced the involuntary WoW factor of that TV - it had amazing shadow details I've not seen replicated on anything else since but it's SD was horrendously fuzzy that gave me a headache. I know we don't like the price of the X950B but if you recall the original LCOS Qualia was $13K and my years on this Forum that was the truly best thread ever on this forum - they became sort of a HT Community and rarely did you ever have bashing going on.

Hopefully the X950B can replicate the strengths of the LCOS without it's weakness with SD - if it does I'd be in right now as I've yet to find anything match the best of that LCOS and you know it's the real deal when a panel has you go WoW involuntarily and to me that is the Holy Grail of HT. Never had a Kuro, Elite or my Samsungs/Sharps match the amazing contrast shadow details of that LCOS and BTW my wife had the same experience but could not overcome the fat ass of the LCOS. Good Luck on your journey!smile.gif

For an interesting look back here's a link to a pro shootout where LCOS won.

http://www.displaymate.com/LCoS_ShootOut_Part_D.htm

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post #3 of 18 Old 05-31-2014, 07:32 AM
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The masses decided they wanted something they could hang over the fireplace that was cheap. Rear projection may have been cheap relative to a similar size flat panel of the day, but it wasn't sleek and sexy. Once flat panels dropped in price rear projection disappeared.
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post #4 of 18 Old 05-31-2014, 07:34 AM
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Funny you ask about this as last night I was thinking how I wish there was a DILA based flat panel.

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post #5 of 18 Old 05-31-2014, 11:05 AM
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Remembering a set I had with this technology. Maybe a JVC? Don't recall but I did sell it to a friend due to footprint issues as well. Think I paid around $3k for it and vowed that was the last $3k tv i would buy. Not that it was a bad set, I just realized turning a set so often was going to get pricey. The TV did have a decent pic though from what I can remember.
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post #6 of 18 Old 07-24-2014, 11:09 AM
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Just curious, how would an old, good performing Sony LCOS TV (say at least a 60") compare with some of the LCD HDTV's of today? Better? Worse? So-so?
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post #7 of 18 Old 07-24-2014, 11:55 AM
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Much worse in terms of ANSI contrast.
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post #8 of 18 Old 07-24-2014, 01:41 PM
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A couple of points here. Who watches SD anymore? It's still out there but even with a top shelf LCD the pq is still crap. Little ones may still watch cartoons in SD but I doubt they'll be too critcle of pq.The green blob issue was fixed with the A3000 models. The final downfall of the Sony LCOS technology is related to problems with the optic block going bad because the TV's design allowed for too much heat funneled to the optic block. A problem that could have been easily remidied but by then the decesion had all ready been made to go flat panel because the public was told that's what they wanted and needed. Sort of like the demise of CCFL in favor of LED. We'll never know what LCOS could have evolved into by 2014 in terms of thinness and weight but LCOS projectors are considered cream of the crop. Liquid Crystal On Silicon. It just sounds cool.

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post #9 of 18 Old 07-24-2014, 05:09 PM
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What does this have to do with OLED? Why would you compare old technology with new technology knowing OLED is superior?

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post #10 of 18 Old 07-26-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
. . . decision had all ready been made to go flat panel because the public was told that's what they wanted and needed. Sort of like the demise of CCFL in favor of LED.
I think you have the market dynamic wrong - LCoS and DLP projection was out in force and available to the public as larger flat-panel screens became available. No one made the decision for me, or anyone else, to go to flat panel. The consumer's demand drives the successful technology. The manufacturers either follow demand or lose. Sony learned this lesson the hard way with the Walkman versus the iPod. RPTVs, regardless of quality or performance (I have the JVC LCoS) were doomed the day flat became affordable. Mitsubishi tried to hang on to RPTV tech way too long (with even laser) and look at them now - out of the game.
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post #11 of 18 Old 07-26-2014, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macahan View Post
Anybody remember the Sony LCOS KDS-R60XBR1? I've had mine since June 2006 and I'm about to buy the 900B. LCOS was a great technology and then Sony just quit making them. As far as the XBR65X950B goes it is just a redisgn of the XBR65HX950 which if everyone remembers had significant banding issues that were reported in this forum. Does anyone really believe sony learned their lesson and actually fixed the banding problems? For 8K they'd better.

Something called a class action law suit happened, Sony's light engines where going out cause a green tinge, costs to fix them were $$$, they offered a repair or return towards a new set at cost or $$ for repairs incurred.

LCOS still rocks on projection, JVC is one of the best still, though true 4K projection is still $.
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post #12 of 18 Old 07-26-2014, 09:37 AM
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Sony refers to their LCoS as SXRD and it's used in all their projectors, including the 4K Digital Cinema projectors used in movie theaters and their home cinema projectors.
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post #13 of 18 Old 07-26-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Lets see. You have one company selling OLED. They are at a price point well beyond the vast majority of buyers. The longevity of the panels are severly in question (blue diods and possible burn-in). Unless you have a very large disposable income or are a tech fanatic, why would you invest in OLED in 2014? So what is OLED superior to? New technology is not always superior to old technology. It's just new.
Although yes they are still pricey at this point in the game, you can now purchase a 55" for 4k, and not to long ago, that huge crazy sale MC was having , letting them go for 2k. That is the price point where the general public spends nowadays on a TV set.
Now to the subject in question, LCOS in an Sony XBR from 06 (not in current projectors) was good for its time and still consider good to some but comparing it to OLED is night and day difference. Ultimate blacks, better contrast, better motion, better colours just to name a few. Longevity is always a question with new tech, by saying that, even it last 10 years (which it won't most likely longer) it's good. Most people buy new sets every 3-6 years anyways.
BI or IR has been mentioned but haven't read to be a serious problem by real owners.

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post #14 of 18 Old 07-26-2014, 04:55 PM
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I was really not wondering how LCOS circa 2006 would stand up to 4K LCD of today but wondering what LCOS circa 2014 would be like if Sony had continued to develop the technology. Could they have gotten it to be as thin as LED's or even CCFL? Could they have developed 4K LCOS? As you say, LCOS was good for 2006 so I wonder what a 8 year allowance for development would look like in a 70" 4K LCOS display.
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post #15 of 18 Old 07-26-2014, 05:39 PM
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My interest was peaked so I compared my two TV's. Living room has a 70w850b and the bedroom has a 60a3000 LCOS. I adjusted the 60a3000 to the exact same settings as the 70w850b. The 60a3000 has not been turned on in over a year. I asked my wife to walk back and forth between the two and tell me what differences she saw. She thought they looked the same. Well I kind of agree comparing the clarity and contrast but without the back light the 60a3000 could not quite match the brightness level of the 70w850b so there was a contrast difference but really not that much. I was kind of surprised.
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post #16 of 18 Old 07-26-2014, 06:00 PM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Who watches SD anymore?
Maybe the 23% of U.S. households that still don't own an HDTV. Or anyone who still doesn't have an HD version of the channel they want to watch (a majority of channels on most cable and satellite systems are still SD, though granted not the most popular ones). Or the vast majority of US homes that still own a DVD player without blu-ray and those who still own libraries of standard DVD's. Or the 58% of households that still own a VCR for that matter, or the 17% for which the VCR is their most modern movie playing device because they don't even have a standard DVD, let alone the an a device capable of streaming. I was in a house last year that had three (relative to when they were new) big, expensive TV's, and they were all CRT's.

Just having fun with stats -- not trying to challenge your comment…
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post #17 of 18 Old 07-26-2014, 08:54 PM
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Hey thats cool. My first radio was a transistor with an ear plug.
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