Official Panasonic TC-58AX800U & TC-65AX800U 4k Owners Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Lostonmountain View Post
Other than removing dust or some manufacturing residue is this supposed to do something? My unit doesn't show any problem with uniformity, in fact it's quite good in that respect, equally bright (or dim) across the screen. I could see if there was something on parts of the screen that were diffusing/reflecting the light this could help...I usually wait until the dust specs get so big it drives me to distraction . Interesting tip as one doesn't tend to think of wiping down a brand new screen.
I don't think it has to do so much with what's ON the screen, so much as helping the multiple layers/filters necessary withIN an LCD panel to "settle in" perhaps as they are all sandwiched together under extremely tight tolerances to attempt to prevent the multitude of artifacts inherent to LCDs because of these manufacturing processes.
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post #92 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post
So, just so I'm clear, is this the set that Panasonic showed at CES which was supposed to be as good or better than the Studio Master ZT60?? In fact, I thought they called the one displayed at CES a "Studio Master" LED.

Because from the sounds of things so far, it doesn't seem terribly impressive. I will admit however that most banding to me is not a huge issue because they are nice straight lines. The things that bother me are ASYMMETRICAL problems, like "blobs" and "clouds" and flashlighting and uneven backlight problems. I think banding for the most part is way overblown.

As for the retailers carrying this TV, I think Panasonic is just tired of having millions of dollars of inventory collecting dust and depreciating at retailers so they are taking a different route here and seeing what happens if they try a "buy direct" approach. If the early deliveries are any indication, it might turn out slightly disastrous to be shipping single panels all over creation without the protection typically afforded by a bunch of palletized sets reaching one distribution point (store).
No, this is not that TV. The ZT60-competing TV is slated for release as the AX900, with FALD and an IPS panel. The AX800U slots under it, and because of its edgelit design and VA panel, it is relatively limited in terms of viewing angles and deep blacks.

The blob/cloud issue literally wiped away in a minute. I couldn't believe it when I tried it, and I passed my experience on to Panasonic. I'm in direct contact with the Senior Engineer (for TVs) at Panasonic—the company is also looking into the banding (very slight and unnoticeable on my unit) but as far as blobs/clouding/uneven backlight problems go—wipe that screen with a soft cloth!!! If you perform the rub/wipe while displaying a white background, you can actually see the effect of the it in real time.
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post #93 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
No, this is not that TV. The ZT60-competing TV is slated for release as the AX900, with FALD and an IPS panel. The AX800U slots under it, and because of its edgelit design and VA panel, it is relatively limited in terms of viewing angles and deep blacks.

The blob/cloud issue literally wiped away in a minute. I couldn't believe it when I tried it, and I passed my experience on to Panasonic. I'm in direct contact with the Senior Engineer (for TVs) at Panasonic—the company is also looking into the banding (very slight and unnoticeable on my unit) but as far as blobs/clouding/uneven backlight problems go—wipe that screen with a soft cloth!!! If you perform the rub/wipe while displaying a white background, you can actually see the effect of the it in real time.
Thanks for the clarification. Still awaiting that AX900 then, and the Vizio Ref. series to see how 2014 rounds out.
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post #94 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 06:34 AM
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So it still suffers from clouding and banding issues just like the first generation model according from what I'm reading in this thread... not very impressed Panasonic, and yet they are charging premium for their sets and yet they can't resolve something this serious... huh. Anyway, when connected to a DP on a GPU, was everything clear, such as clear crisp text and how was the image quality?
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post #95 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ChronoDetector View Post
So it still suffers from clouding and banding issues just like the first generation model according from what I'm reading in this thread... not very impressed Panasonic, and yet they are charging premium for their sets and yet they can't resolve something this serious... huh. Anyway, when connected to a DP on a GPU, was everything clear, such as clear crisp text and how was the image quality?
I'm using it as a 4K PC monitor right now. It looks beautiful. After rubbing the screen, the only remaining issue is the presence of extremely faint vertical bands. Panasonic's is looking into the issue right now, at my urging, thanks to numerous reports of the issue. It's important to note—clouding and the vertical bands are two separate things. Any clouding/discoloration literally wiped away, I don't know how/why rubbing the screen works, but it is undeniable that it works. Took me a week to try it. I urge anyone with any clouding or discoloration on their AX800U screen to give it a shot.

The vertical bands on the TV I have are extremely slight, practically invisible. I have to put up an all-white field and scrutinize it to see. Picture coming soon.

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Last edited by imagic; 07-02-2014 at 02:09 PM.
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post #96 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 06:59 AM
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Mark,

I have seen a member in a Sony thread talk about rubbing or tapping the screen to help with clouding. Out of curiosity, what kind of pressure are we talking here when rubbing? Is it barely pushing on the screen or enough that you can easily see the pressure being applied on the layer behind?

Thanks for posting of your results as if/when I get this and it has clouding I will for sure try it.

ROB
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post #97 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
Mark,

I have seen a member in a Sony thread talk about rubbing or tapping the screen to help with clouding. Out of curiosity, what kind of pressure are we talking here when rubbing? Is it barely pushing on the screen or enough that you can easily see the pressure being applied on the layer behind?

Thanks for posting of your results as if/when I get this and it has clouding I will for sure try it.
I press hard enough to see the effect on the liquid crystals. It's like a rainbow trail. The pressure is not much—normal monitor-cleaning pressure.

While it may not work miracles, it got rid of the big blob on the left, as seen in this before/after image. The camera (Galaxy S4) exaggerates the effect fwiw, that's actually a white screen underexposed. To the naked eye it looks more uniform than in the picture, especially the post-wipe screen.


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Last edited by imagic; 07-02-2014 at 07:36 AM.
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post #98 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 07:28 AM
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Wow! That result is pretty damn impressive for such a simple thing to do.

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post #99 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
If you are wanting it to use with a computer for desktop use and/or gaming, this is your only option in these sizes. The Sony's are great 4k sets, I have a 900a 65", but they only have HDMI while the Panasonic has Display Port which will give you 4k @60hz/60fps in games and other uses. So, your decision should come down to if you need 4k @ 60hz/60fps for computer use or not. If you don't then any of the Sony 4k's are really good sets.
I'm coming off a 950B. Most over priced, over hyped television. You think Panny has bad customer service. I've dealt with Panny. Sony is 10x worse. They don't even pretend to care about your issues. So I just returned two $8,000 950B sets because of QC and will not be buying Sony again based on their horrid service. It's not many who will buy the top end TV set compared to their other sets. And to be treated the way they are, it's just a bad joke.
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post #100 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post
So, just so I'm clear, is this the set that Panasonic showed at CES which was supposed to be as good or better than the Studio Master ZT60?? In fact, I thought they called the one displayed at CES a "Studio Master" LED.

Because from the sounds of things so far, it doesn't seem terribly impressive. I will admit however that most banding to me is not a huge issue because they are nice straight lines. The things that bother me are ASYMMETRICAL problems, like "blobs" and "clouds" and flashlighting and uneven backlight problems. I think banding for the most part is way overblown.

As for the retailers carrying this TV, I think Panasonic is just tired of having millions of dollars of inventory collecting dust and depreciating at retailers so they are taking a different route here and seeing what happens if they try a "buy direct" approach. If the early deliveries are any indication, it might turn out slightly disastrous to be shipping single panels all over creation without the protection typically afforded by a bunch of palletized sets reaching one distribution point (store). Although, plenty of independent *vendors* seem to have this method mastered (Cleveland A/V, for example).
The AX900 is the ZT challenger.
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post #101 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yes, rubbing the screen helped with screen uniformity. If it's not an issue for you, that's great to hear. Now that I gave my screen a good rub, it's not an issue for me, either. Since some members had an issue as well, I'm sharing a tip that worked. I'm not talking about surface dirt, I'm talking about "clouding" i.e. non-uniform patches in the display itself.
Didn't mean to sound like I doubted you, if it works it works, I was just trying to figure out why this works...that's the old computer repair person in me. Someone else suggested it might have to do with the LCD layers...maybe being separated a bit too much in spots and the pressure restoring them to spec. That sounds possible...any other theories? If that is the case then I would question as to whether they might not become separated again over time and also wonder if they are coming out of the factory this way or maybe it's happening during shipping/handling in which case maybe the 65" model is more subject to this problem...how long do you have your set for? Also since you like it so much are you tempted to buy one once you have to send it back or maybe wait for the FALD model? Given the quality of my set I can't see paying extra for the FALD but maybe I just got extra lucky.
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post #102 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Lostonmountain View Post
Didn't mean to sound like I doubted you, if it works it works, I was just trying to figure out why this works...that's the old computer repair person in me. Someone else suggested it might have to do with the LCD layers...maybe being separated a bit too much in spots and the pressure restoring them to spec. That sounds possible...any other theories? If that is the case then I would question as to whether they might not become separated again over time and also wonder if they are coming out of the factory this way or maybe it's happening during shipping/handling in which case maybe the 65" model is more subject to this problem...how long do you have your set for? Also since you like it so much are you tempted to buy one once you have to send it back or maybe wait for the FALD model? Given the quality of my set I can't see paying extra for the FALD but maybe I just got extra lucky.
I'm inclined to wait a while before actually buying a 4K/UHD set, the price is too high relative to the available content. I wish I could have a AX800U as my primary monitor, but it's way out of my price range. I'm enjoying it while I have it, but that's only for another week and a half. If the goal is to buy a home theater-worthy UHDTV, the forthcoming FALD model (AX900U) will have more to offer—namely a much wider viewing angle and deeper blacks.
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post #103 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 09:37 AM
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One issue I forgot to mention: I kept getting brief ads for Tyson chicken (not available in this area) when I turned on the TV, not a worry, but then they started appearing at other times, fortunately I found a setting that turned this nonsense off. Other than updating the firmware I have not used the "Smart" features or Internet connection. I will say the home screen looks nice but without cable or off air TV and limited internet speed (except in the middle of the night) I don't have much use for this. I might try the Amazon app, though I have one on my PS4 and don't use it much (no keyboard to make searching easy)...usually I'm browsing on my computer when I run across some video I'd like to watch. Mostly I watch MSNBC and BBC neither of which have apps.

ARGH mouse cursor just disappeared, it happened when I switched back here after looking at the apps again. Putting mouse trails on brings it back, but turning it off causes the mouse to disappear again. I'm really thinking this has something to do with the display port detecting the signal switch. I may get another DP cable and cut the wire that detects this and see if it solves the problem. Like I mentioned before the sound stays on unlike with the HDMI port, but really I'd rather lose the sound and keep the mouse if I had to chose .
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post #104 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 09:44 AM
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Oh yeah I remember reading about that Panasonic ad crap being on their TVs to go along with their blu-ray players. Ridiculous you can buy a TV and have ads shown like that.

That's odd with the mouse cursor issue. I can see how frustrating that must be.

ROB
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post #105 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
No, this is not that TV. The ZT60-competing TV is slated for release as the AX900, with FALD and an IPS panel. The AX800U slots under it, and because of its edgelit design and VA panel, it is relatively limited in terms of viewing angles and deep blacks.
Huh? Your thread is titled "Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with TC-AX800U Series". It is not titled "Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with TC-AX900 Series".

I was under the impression that Panasonic hasn't even demo'ed the AX900 yet.
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post #106 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 11:13 AM
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Huh? Your thread is titled "Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with TC-AX800U Series". It is not titled "Panasonic Beats Plasma Picture Quality with TC-AX900 Series".

I was under the impression that Panasonic hasn't even demo'ed the AX900 yet.
The AX900 prototype was demoed at CES 2014

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post #107 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 11:13 AM
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Sure makes finding a deal hard.........
Hopefully Panasonic is constraining the supply to their site to improve customer feedback and problem solving. Having Best Buy, or anyone, in the problem solving chain only delays solutions to customer issues. However, this better open up within a couple months or the market (us) will move on to alternatives like Cleveland Plasma.
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post #108 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 11:53 AM
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The AX900 prototype was demoed at CES 2014
But I still don't understand why your thread title says AX800U and now you're claiming it was the AX-900 you saw. I was deciding on a TV when your thread showed up and it played a pretty big part of my decision to go with the AX800U. If you meant the AX900U, could you at least change the thread title?
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post #109 of 574 Old 07-02-2014, 01:03 PM
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But I still don't understand why your thread title says AX800U and now you're claiming it was the AX-900 you saw. I was deciding on a TV when your thread showed up and it played a pretty big part of my decision to go with the AX800U. If you meant the AX900U, could you at least change the thread title?
If you read the thread, you know I'm talking about the AX800U—that's what I saw in New York a couple of months ago at Panasonic's demo. I saw the AX900U prototype in Las Vegas back in January. I just finished a pro calibration of the AX800U and it matches my Samsung F8500 for color accuracy—that's no small feat.

If the AX900U matches/beats plasma, it'll do so with a wider field of view thanks to a FALD IPS panel. I've been through the wringer in my AX800U thread, I don't want to rehash it. The short explanation is: Plasma is better for 1080p in a dark room i.e. Blu-ray in the basement. The AX800U beats plasma in terms of brightness and resolution. Color accuracy and gamma are a tie—the AX800U is plasma-like. Plasma wins on motion resolution, but the difference is hard to see. The AX800U does not have plasma-like viewing angles, it's best viewed head-on and not from the side.

I hope that helps.

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Last edited by imagic; 07-02-2014 at 01:24 PM.
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post #110 of 574 Old 07-03-2014, 02:13 AM
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I have had the european version TX-50AX100E for a month. There are no issues. I see no banding or clouding. It is great as a computer monitor because all text and photos, thumbnails are without pixels. It is connected to my Geforce 670 GPU with DisplayPort (4K60Hz) and HDMI (4k30Hz). The HDMI goes to my new Pioneer reciever with HDMI 2.0.
I watch a lot of camcorder 1080/50p stuff and the upscaling to 4K is awesome. I thought I would have to buy a 4K camera but the upscaling reveals the real quality of my Canon HF G30 camera. Fantastic colours and depth.
The blacks are very good both in daylight and a dark room. Almost like a CRT.
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post #111 of 574 Old 07-03-2014, 03:38 AM
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Could anyone post some basic settings.


Thx
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post #112 of 574 Old 07-03-2014, 05:51 AM
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Is there a screen upgrade to DP 1.2a ?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8008/v...s-move-forward
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post #113 of 574 Old 07-03-2014, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic's Web-Site has both the 65" & 58" 4k AX800's on sale. They were previously listed at $500 Off, but now the 58" is $800 off and the 65" is $1000 off, plus you get a free Panasonic Blu ray player.


http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/viera...dTopNavId=nav1

-Hawkmoon
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post #114 of 574 Old 07-03-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
Panasonic's Web-Site has both the 65" & 58" 4k AX800's on sale. They were previously listed at $500 Off, but now the 58" is $800 off and the 65" is $1000 off, plus you get a free Panasonic Blu ray player.


http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/viera...dTopNavId=nav1
holy crap! the 65" is a damn good deal now. If they can fix the banding & uniformity issues, that's easily the best '14 4K TV at that price point.
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post #115 of 574 Old 07-03-2014, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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holy crap! the 65" is a damn good deal now. If they can fix the banding & uniformity issues, that's easily the best '14 4K TV at that price point.
You guys are going to find this odd and/or unusual. But I did the rubbing thing Mark described above and at first I thought I saw an improvement with the banding and later noticed that it was still there. So when I set up my exchange, I boxed up the unit and put it into my garage for the better part of 8-10 days or so. When the Tech at Panasonic said he wanted to look at my screen before they exchange it, me and my wife pulled it out of the garage and set it back up. This time, for some reason, I decided to plug it into the wall outlet, instead of my panamax. Once we turned it on, I ran it through my usual tests and noticed a drastic decrease in the banding issue. I still see it, but the ones that were 2.5" wide or so, I cannot even see much at all.


I ran my games, computer, youtube clips that show it and all I have is a faint 1/4" in band on the left side, another slight one 1/4 into the left and some faint lines from where I say the larger bands. I am not sure what it is, but wife said "lets plug it back into the panamax and see if it changes". So we did that and it is the same, the banding is rarely seen. My wife is not the best when it comes to noticing screen issues, but when we first got the set, she even noticed it. It is some very rare scenes that we see it now and most of it is very faint. I can't explain it, my wife said the TV just needed a time out lol... but right now, the banding on my set seems to become very minimal. Panasonic is still coming out next week to look at it and determine if the one they are bringing has less banding or not, but right now, if my decision is to refund or keep my current one, I may end up keeping it.

-Hawkmoon
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post #116 of 574 Old 07-03-2014, 09:02 PM
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Well I can't SLI with my current power supply just can't quite power the second card (well maybe if I disconnected everything else except my SSD). So I'm "stuck" playing Civ5 until next week.

Hawkmoon: maybe you managed to bump it in just the righEt manner to make it behave itself. Hope it continues to work well.

Edit: Spoke too soon, after thinking about it a bit, I dug up some old power adapters and tried them, and bang I now have SLI. So on to the games, just not sure what I have that works with SLI, may have to download something new.

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post #117 of 574 Old 07-04-2014, 06:57 PM
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For those thinking of going SLI for the first time like me, first I've only tried Kerbal Space Program so far, which is more of a CPU bound game, but now I'm running it in 4K with the same setting I had before (except I turned down AA to 2x since the pixels are so dense on a 4K TV) and it runs great and looks fantastic...but wow adding the second card way more than doubled the heat output of my system. I need to rethink the heat flow, a large fan pulling heat out away from the cards looks like the way to go (I added an 8cm fan temporarily and it helps but maybe a good 120cm fan, and some more holes in the case side...or maybe just leaving the case side off). Still I can see there is no going back. Let's see I remember my first color monitor cga which was like 320x200 16 colors...so what will we have in another 25 years? (I want a holo-deck.)
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post #118 of 574 Old 07-04-2014, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostonmountain View Post
For those thinking of going SLI for the first time like me, first I've only tried Kerbal Space Program so far, which is more of a CPU bound game, but now I'm running it in 4K with the same setting I had before (except I turned down AA to 2x since the pixels are so dense on a 4K TV) and it runs great and looks fantastic...but wow adding the second card way more than doubled the heat output of my system. I need to rethink the heat flow, a large fan pulling heat out away from the cards looks like the way to go (I added an 8cm fan temporarily and it helps but maybe a good 120cm fan, and some more holes in the case side...or maybe just leaving the case side off). Still I can see there is no going back. Let's see I remember my first color monitor cga which was like 320x200 16 colors...so what will we have in another 25 years? (I want a holo-deck.)

I have been using SLI systems for over 4 years now and I love it. To do 4k any justice, you need a SLI system. Yes, heat is a bigger issue, but I really never had that much heat problems since all the motherboards I have owned have allowed at least one PCI slot space to let them breath. The top card is always going to be running hotter than the other card regardless, but in my experience the difference between the top and bottom card is about 5c.


It also depends on what kind of cards you are using. Some have a single fan that blow the hot air out of the back of the card and out of the case, but cards that have multi-fans on them, they are blowing heat back into your case. I learned 2 years ago that if you are worried about heat and you are doing some serious over-clocking of the cards putting them in a water loop is the only way to go. My cards (GTX Titans) run at max load and the highest temp I have seen is 45c on both cards. My system is also very quiet since there are no fans on the cards.


If you don't plan on going to water with your cards, leaving the door off or getting a new door with a vent so you can put a 120mm fan to blow cool air on them.
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post #119 of 574 Old 07-04-2014, 11:46 PM
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I won't go water cooling just too risky IMHO (well I have a hard enough time keeping even my garden hoses from leaking and I'd hate to think what even distilled water combined with the dust would do in my computer should a leak start when it was turned on). What really surprised me was the huge difference in heat output the second card makes I mean we are talking about many times the heat output of the single card, and yes there is a one slot separation (an unused PCI slot), and these cards come overclocked and are huge but fortunately in a huge case. When not in SLI mode the temp drops back to normal and actually it's the second and bottom card (the new one) that seems to be putting out more heat though I haven't actually looked to see what the temp is (don't want to scare myself) I'm a big believer in keeping things cool for long life, though really given that I've always replaced my graphics cards before the burn out I don't know why I worry. Fortunately the heat is mostly blowing out of the system so the rest of the computer isn't really effected. I don't normally push things with overclocking, but these cards do seem able to handle 4k well. I like the 770 chip seems to be a at very good price/performance spot. For some reason even with running a program like Civ5 they are working in SLI even though it's not needed so I'm setting it to run single GPU in the NVedia profile that will hopefully cool things when not needed (a single 4GB 770 can handle not taxing graphics just fine). Thought I'd try Batman Arkham origins which I can download free also my new card came with the code for WatchDogs maybe one of those will give my new SLI setup a real work out though I think Kerbal Space Program is about to be come a favorite again, 4K just makes things so much nicer.
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post #120 of 574 Old 07-05-2014, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post
Panasonic's Web-Site has both the 65" & 58" 4k AX800's on sale. They were previously listed at $500 Off, but now the 58" is $800 off and the 65" is $1000 off, plus you get a free Panasonic Blu ray player.


http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/viera...dTopNavId=nav1
Oh good one hawkmoon - wait no it's not good - more dilemma
Why are they doing this to me ? 4k for 3k$
Now it's soooo tempting to grab one of those... ax800 instead of waiting almost 3 more months for something mystified and @ unknown price

Some quotes:
"The Viera AX900 TV will have "as yet undisclosed picture quality and 'beyond smart' advances"

"The AX900 will be coming at the end of the summer and it will be what we are replacing our plasma business with.
"It has THX certification, local dimming, studio mastered colour... it is everything we had on plasma on an LED."

I wonder .... I've never owned a big plasma set therefore I have no idea and no expectations about the quality, not sure if I would even notice the level of blacks and what not that ax900 promises over ax800. The set I used before was 32 inch Samsung LED full hd.

I definitely don't care about the viewing angle - as I plan to sit about 6.5 foot away from the 58'' version when watching a movie and about 3.5 foot close when coding/browsing - and there's only me an my gf so we will be looking straight at the screen - i don't think at this setup the viewing angle would affect anything or would it?

Oh my .... 1st world problems

this 800$ off + the blu-ray promotion is only going to last few more days
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Gear in this thread - TC-58AX800U by PriceGrabber.com



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