Vizio Demo: M Series vs. Samsung H7150 - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 174 Old 07-28-2014, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
When you say calibrated, do you mean you hired someone to calibrate your TVs and/or you calibrate TVs yourself for a hobby? If so, what software/hardware combo do you use, and/or who did you wind up hiring to do the job? Also, what do you mean by "normal viewing levels?" Is that a reference to the room's lighting levels, or to the TV's backlight setting?
Had a friend of mine professionally calibrate both sets. THX certified. However, as one person pointed out, that issue becomes moot because I am in fact comparing the "A" model of Vizio; not the very latest "B" model. That notwithstanding, I have not read any material indicating Vizio has improved their PQ processing engine. So my point may still be valid.

He did state he was impressed with the out-of-box settings for the Samsung; especially the D6500 white point; as well as of course the final, calibrated PQ.

Nevertheless, while in BestBuy, they allowed me full reign over the remote controls for the newest Vizio and Samsung 55"... according to my layman's eyes, the Samsung was again superior with scaled content; as BestBuy did not have a dedicated Blu-Ray source for either TV I cannot comment on that; only postulate Vizio may close the gap further with less processed content.

Normal viewing levels meant calibrated settings; as well as angles: within 30 degrees of center.

Those were both very good questions that needed more precise answers.

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post #152 of 174 Old 07-28-2014, 12:30 PM
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Without know the settings each set was in the comparison is really moot. It only gives you the bare basics at best in the BB showroom.
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post #153 of 174 Old 07-28-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rstesiak View Post
I fear you did not read my post throughly. I did in fact audition the newest Vizio M-series while at BestBuy beside the newest Samsungs and Sonys:

"I auditioned the new Vizio M Series, in 55 and 60 inch versions, as well as the Samsung line, and Sony top tier models; all in the 50-55-60 inch models; all 1080P."
Okay, so I missed that point, but I don't really think you can get any sort of useful comparison of floor models at Best Buy.
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post #154 of 174 Old 07-28-2014, 04:35 PM
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Sure you can. That shouldn't be your only criteria but lots of people here in these forums have stated that comparing sets at Best Buy and Costco have greatly helped determine their buying choice. What other options do you have other than reading reviews and others opinions? Over the years the number one piece of advice here at AVS to buyers is trust your eyes, not what people say. If you were considering these two sets and Best Buy had them both you wouldn't go check them out?
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post #155 of 174 Old 07-28-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
If you were considering these two sets and Best Buy had them both you wouldn't go check them out?
Probably, but I wouldn't immediately turn around and post on the internet that someone who saw them under controlled lighting conditions that his conclusion about which was better was all wrong. Nor would I attempt to claim one was better than the other based on checking them out.
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post #156 of 174 Old 07-28-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Sure you can. That shouldn't be your only criteria but lots of people here in these forums have stated that comparing sets at Best Buy and Costco have greatly helped determine their buying choice. What other options do you have other than reading reviews and others opinions? Over the years the number one piece of advice here at AVS to buyers is trust your eyes, not what people say. If you were considering these two sets and Best Buy had them both you wouldn't go check them out?

Agree 100%!!!
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post #157 of 174 Old 07-28-2014, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Sure you can. That shouldn't be your only criteria but lots of people here in these forums have stated that comparing sets at Best Buy and Costco have greatly helped determine their buying choice. What other options do you have other than reading reviews and others opinions? Over the years the number one piece of advice here at AVS to buyers is trust your eyes, not what people say. If you were considering these two sets and Best Buy had them both you wouldn't go check them out?
Undoubtedly the vast majority of TVs are bought by people who trust their eyes when comparing TVs at big box stores. However, I agree that for many people, there are few (if any) viable alternatives to that approach. Ultimately, it's after you get the TV home that you have to trust your eyes.

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post #158 of 174 Old 07-29-2014, 05:30 AM
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Probably, but I wouldn't immediately turn around and post on the internet that someone who saw them under controlled lighting conditions that his conclusion about which was better was all wrong. Nor would I attempt to claim one was better than the other based on checking them out.
This has been an excellent debate; though I think the usefulness of my input is drawing to a close. I will end my contributions with the following:

Premise: 2014A Vizio 50" M Series model, of which I own and have had calibrated, is inferior to 2014"B" Samsung 7150 55" calibrated TV, of which I now own.

Premise: My main point is in processing and scaling of the picture, where I state Samsung is superior. To my knowledge, Vizio has not changed their picture processing algorithms from 2014A to 2014B sets. In fact, Vizio has opted to step back from IPS, but added more zones and removed 3D.

Conclusion: the 2014"B" Samsung 55" set is superior in terms of picture processing/scaling algorithms to both 2014A and 2014B Vizios; and this conclusion was supported with full reign over remote controls and a few hours at a local BestBuy where the Vizio 2014"B" set was compared directly with the 2014"B" Samsung set. (all of them were 55" panels at that point). I'm not much into 3D, but Avatar was excellent - if you want 3D, you HAVE to get the Samsung of these two sets.

Having proven, to the best of my intellectual capacity, that Samsung in fact has an inherently superior processing and scaling engine, like the x-Reality PRO engine found in Sony's better sets, to the Vizio's processor, I hope this information helps people when making buying decisions.

I will say, perhaps more clearly here to be my own "Devil's Advocate": The Vizio backlighting I believe to be technically superior to the Samsung edge lighting and "advanced Micro Dimming". However, the rest of the electronics as well as Smart TV interface, is in severe favor to Samsung.

To put this a different way, for the everyday TV that gets HD Cable feeds in 1080i and 720p, as well as Netflix, Hulu Plus, Youtube, etc, Sasmung should be the obvious choice.

If one is using the set as a dedicated home theater for mostly Blu-Rays in a darkened room specifically for this purpose, I would still recommend either one, as there are subtle trade offs at this point, but if the darkest blacks are one of your main decision points, then you should choose the Vizio.

I hope this helps not only clarify my points, but helps other people with what is no doubt a serious purchasing decision.

Kind Regards,

Ron

ps. I have now been reading a lot of other topics and am amazed at all of the pictures people are posting of their TV's with obvious blotchiness, flashlighting, and all other sorts of bad issues... I must say that perhaps there is a serious quality control issue, as my panel honestly, regardless of my backlight settings save for the highest, truly and thankfully does not exhibit these issues. As most people also agree, it comes down to trying out the sets at BestBuy, then at your home.

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post #159 of 174 Old 07-31-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rstesiak View Post
This has been an excellent debate; though I think the usefulness of my input is drawing to a close. I will end my contributions with the following:

Premise: 2014A Vizio 50" M Series model, of which I own and have had calibrated, is inferior to 2014"B" Samsung 7150 55" calibrated TV, of which I now own.

Premise: My main point is in processing and scaling of the picture, where I state Samsung is superior. To my knowledge, Vizio has not changed their picture processing algorithms from 2014A to 2014B sets. In fact, Vizio has opted to step back from IPS, but added more zones and removed 3D.

Conclusion: the 2014"B" Samsung 55" set is superior in terms of picture processing/scaling algorithms to both 2014A and 2014B Vizios; and this conclusion was supported with full reign over remote controls and a few hours at a local BestBuy where the Vizio 2014"B" set was compared directly with the 2014"B" Samsung set. (all of them were 55" panels at that point). I'm not much into 3D, but Avatar was excellent - if you want 3D, you HAVE to get the Samsung of these two sets.

Having proven, to the best of my intellectual capacity, that Samsung in fact has an inherently superior processing and scaling engine, like the x-Reality PRO engine found in Sony's better sets, to the Vizio's processor, I hope this information helps people when making buying decisions.

I will say, perhaps more clearly here to be my own "Devil's Advocate": The Vizio backlighting I believe to be technically superior to the Samsung edge lighting and "advanced Micro Dimming". However, the rest of the electronics as well as Smart TV interface, is in severe favor to Samsung.

To put this a different way, for the everyday TV that gets HD Cable feeds in 1080i and 720p, as well as Netflix, Hulu Plus, Youtube, etc, Sasmung should be the obvious choice.

If one is using the set as a dedicated home theater for mostly Blu-Rays in a darkened room specifically for this purpose, I would still recommend either one, as there are subtle trade offs at this point, but if the darkest blacks are one of your main decision points, then you should choose the Vizio.

I hope this helps not only clarify my points, but helps other people with what is no doubt a serious purchasing decision.

Kind Regards,

Ron

ps. I have now been reading a lot of other topics and am amazed at all of the pictures people are posting of their TV's with obvious blotchiness, flashlighting, and all other sorts of bad issues... I must say that perhaps there is a serious quality control issue, as my panel honestly, regardless of my backlight settings save for the highest, truly and thankfully does not exhibit these issues. As most people also agree, it comes down to trying out the sets at BestBuy, then at your home.
UPDATE & CONCLUSION:

After several days now with the new 55" Samsung H7150, here are some nit-picky details:

1. there is a more pronounced black crush that is resolved with careful calibration. I believe the engineers chose higher contract ratios over black detail. It's subtle, but they are two different animals. Increasing Gamma does alleviate the black crush on my 55", however.

2. The panel in most lighting conditions has inky, wonderful blacks, and bars on DVD and BLU-RAY content appear perfectly black. No flashlighting at all. no blotchiness. Just smooth, buttery goodness.

3. In a controlled, darkened theater room, the panel is not as dark as the Vizio...this is especially noticed as cinema bars on top and bottom are noticeably "on" and not *absolute* black like the Vizios can do, to be absolutely unbiased.

4. Thankfully, I got a panel that was made by Samsung; these seem to be the best. Many other sizes, mostly above 60", I understand use Sharp panels. This could be the main reason for the conflicting reviews with this set.

5. I have to say the color calibration, 2 point and 10 point white balance can really dial this into professional grade levels; using 6 separate Offsets and Gains for RGB color space. Impressive. The color rendering on these sets is perhaps the best in the industry at the moment in my opinion comparing to Vizio and Sony.

So, in short, and to summarize:

If you're going to be using your telly during the morning, day, evening, and/or night; in a living room say, and watching all sorts of content from HD Cable, Hulu Plus, NetFlix, The Internet, torrents, Blu-Rays, DVDs, etc, then I can completely recommend the Samsung 55. Even with my wall of french doors which are right next to the telly are sunny, the set can be so bright as to handle this situation better than any other manufacturer; save for the one odd company SunBrite or similar..but I digress.

The television also translates any and all movie formats I have thrown at it from downloaded files; while the Vizio was eventually such a head ache I had to permanently pair it with an Apple Mac Mini so all videos would play.
Also, The Vizio's color palette is good, just not exceptional. And, in my opinion of the death knell of the current Vizios available, I am afraid the onboard video engine just is sub-par. That is clearly where they cut costs. Perhaps the new vaporware sets will appear with a solution, but I can guarantee it will come at a higher cost.

Playing these games is all about give and take. Even at the $2,000 budget. Very frustrating.

If I could design my own set from already made parts, I would take the Samsung quadcore and PQ processing logic boards and transplant them into the 55" Vizio M Series.


So for me, as I only have a 2 story townhouse with no basement space, my television is up in my living room, and in these conditions, even after reading all of the horrible things to look at, I guess I got blind luck with a "good panel". I can say I am very happy with my purchase.

The only contenders who are currently superior to what I just got all cost significantly more and are 4K. Which will probably become betamax; as WallStreet, Newy York Times, etc all indicate broadcasters are waiting to standardize on 8K. So, for the money, I can rest I have the best TV available today, at a price that won't bankrupt me.

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post #160 of 174 Old 08-02-2014, 06:29 AM
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Unedited Sceenshot of 55" calibrated Samsung

Here is an unedited screenshot with Black Crush properly taken care of, with still inky black borders! There is a reflection visible in the screen; such is the tradeoff with the glossy screens I believe to have more "punch" with the sacrifice of some reflections. Drawing the curtains resolves this, but I intentionally wanted to reveal the reflections. Click the link below, and close the new window it opens to exit and return here:

I certainly have demonstrated superior calibration to the Vizio booth's Samsung set, which was a side-goal. Unless you are one of the lucky few who have a light-controlled, dedicated home theater setup, I can honestly recommend this television as the current best on the market for 1080P technology. It is in the specialized, darkened room where some will not like the subtle lighter black bars on movie content that are a fact of edge lighting; no matter how good the picture processing and micro-dimming; however, I honestly do not see these issues unless it is late at night, and even then, they are so subtle it does not bother me; and believe me, I am OCD.
:-)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4x...it?usp=sharing

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post #161 of 174 Old 08-02-2014, 10:09 AM
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Im gonna say no to vizio.cheaper components and only reason tey get good reviews is because they are cheaper. That means nothing
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post #162 of 174 Old 08-02-2014, 10:22 AM
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So are big box stores trying to make vizio look bad to sell a higher product? Every time I go to a store to look in person the vizios look like trash. I wouldn't take 70" floor model if it was $500 it's completely unwatchable. I see good reviews but just don't see how it's possible unless stores are tanking the displays.
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post #163 of 174 Old 08-02-2014, 12:32 PM
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So are big box stores trying to make vizio look bad to sell a higher product? Every time I go to a store to look in person the vizios look like trash. I wouldn't take 70" floor model if it was $500 it's completely unwatchable. I see good reviews but just don't see how it's possible unless stores are tanking the displays.

Without knowing what settings each TV is in it makes it hard to judge. Of course some people are confusing the 2013 with the 2014 and there are more than a few differences between the two. When you see pro reviews they are normally based off a full calibration of the TV which many don't know about or don't care to do. Vizio as seen by reviews is not that good OOTB but can be calibrated to a nice picture. Vizio really is making headway this year and hopefully they can provide firmware updates/improve on what they learn as there seem to be more experienced eyes on them now so the feedback should be better.
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post #164 of 174 Old 08-02-2014, 12:32 PM
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Im gonna say no to vizio.cheaper components and only reason tey get good reviews is because they are cheaper. That means nothing

This is not true at all.
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post #165 of 174 Old 08-02-2014, 05:32 PM
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This is not true at all.

You think Samsung may be investing in some trolls :-)


Nothing like a head-to-head thread title to get impassioned posters off the benches, huh :-)
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post #166 of 174 Old 08-02-2014, 05:56 PM
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You think Samsung may be investing in some trolls :-)


Nothing like a head-to-head thread title to get impassioned posters off the benches, huh :-)

I can understand trying to justify your purchase. Recently though it seems people take it overly personal if someone says something a little bad against the set they own.
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post #167 of 174 Old 11-23-2014, 11:11 AM
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Just did a 4 hour side by side with the UN65H7150AFXZA and the M652I-B2.
Very simply put the Samsung is a better tv in every possible way. Sharper picture, better color, darker blacks with brighter whites(tending towards a little blue but that was fixable), MUCH better shadow detail.
It did cost $200 more. Totally worth it.

If you are looking at 65" sets between these two go Samsung.

*Quick note the Visio P seriesP652UI-B2 price just drop to the same as the Samsung(in the 65" size). Might be worth looking at.

Happy hunting.
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post #168 of 174 Old 11-26-2014, 10:01 AM
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Just to add my 2 cents.

I picked up a Vizio
M422i-B1 a few days ago and I am surprised at well this tv performs. I wanted something for PC gaming that was over 40in or bigger with a 120 refresh rate. I also use it for TV when not watching my JVC PJ. Gaming on this TV is excellent, it actual does 120fps, tested it with the UFO frame rate test and it comes up as native 120hz in the ATI catalyst center. As for the image, it is pretty dam good as well, considering it cost me about 500 bucks, the black level is really good, it does need calibration, but I have the technology. Over all really impressed, it fits my needs perfectly and it does have a real nice image.

James Reid:D
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post #169 of 174 Old 11-26-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Sure you can. That shouldn't be your only criteria but lots of people here in these forums have stated that comparing sets at Best Buy and Costco have greatly helped determine their buying choice. What other options do you have other than reading reviews and others opinions? Over the years the number one piece of advice here at AVS to buyers is trust your eyes, not what people say. If you were considering these two sets and Best Buy had them both you wouldn't go check them out?
Nominee for one of "The Best Posts of 2014" here on AVS.

You all MUST realize that ANYTHING that is "visual" in scope or content will be very subjective! No other way around it.

We all have different eyes. Thus different vision and color blindness. In the end, what looks fantastic to you, may look sub par to me. I go and have my eyes checked annually even though I do not require glasses/prescription. My vision is 19/20 and I feel blessed for this. At the same time, I notice more than say my wife or even friends.

My Home Theater = Investment In My Entertainment!
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post #170 of 174 Old 11-26-2014, 01:14 PM
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As I eagerly await the arrival of my M801i-a3, can you owners out there kindly post up some 'self calibration' examples for me right out of the box?

Thanks!

My Home Theater = Investment In My Entertainment!
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post #171 of 174 Old 11-27-2014, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimstewart View Post
Just did a side by side with the UN65H7150AFXZA and the M652I-B2.
Very simply put the Samsung is a better tv in every possible way. Sharper picture, better color, darker blacks with brighter whites(tending towards a little blue but that was fixable), MUCH better shadow detail.
It did cost $200 more. Totally worth it.

If you are looking at 65" sets between these two go Samsung.

*Quick note the Visio P seriesP652UI-B2 price just drop to the same as the Samsung(in the 65" size)

Happy hunting.
People see what they want to see.
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post #172 of 174 Old 11-27-2014, 09:01 PM
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People see what they want to see.
I went into the comparison with no preconceptions. I don't favor either brand(I was replacing a Mitsubishi, that replaced a Toshiba), the difference in picture quality between the sets was obvious. The samsung is a substantially better set. After tuning up both sets independently, we started the same Yellowstone documentary. Both myself and my friend had a reaction like : "oh come on...." as the Samsung completely outclassed the Visio.

I am kicking myself for not take more pictures....but really with in the first 10 minutes(and even after over an hour playing with settings) there was no question which TV was going back to BB.

Here is an right out of the box pic of the 2 sets.
The video is not quit perfectly lined up so these are not the exact same frame....but close enough.

The stand is a bit more visible than I would like. If I stick with the Samsung thru the Holiday season(Already considering an upgrade to a 70" sharp) than I will cut a black felt piece to cover it.
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post #173 of 174 Old 11-30-2014, 08:58 PM
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In addition to the settings being all over the place, at the big box stores the TVs are at the mercy of the signal they are getting. How can you possibly compare there? I am shopping for my first HDTV, finally (46 yrs old, more audio-centric), and at Best Buy the other day the C-Net highest rated 40" Vizio TV had squared-off/pixelated O's, etc. and did not look nearly as good as the one next to it. I knew the answer but asked the guy anyway since he seemed acceptably geeky, I mean knowledgeable, and he confirmed that different TVs ran through different boxes and that you couldn't tell based on in-store viewing what it would look like when you get it home. If someone has a different thought please chime in.

Here is the CNET review of the Samsung 6350 series. FWIW they liked the Vizeo M (and E) series PQ much better.

cnet.com/products/samsung-un55h6350

"The Bad: Lighter black levels and uneven picture uniformity lead to a mediocre home theater image; bad sound quality; Smart TV design can be overwhelming.

The Bottom Line: Despite picture quality that's just average, the Samsung UNH6350's high-end features and design for a midrange price will win plenty of converts."
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post #174 of 174 Old 11-30-2014, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tman202 View Post
In addition to the settings being all over the place, at the big box stores the TVs are at the mercy of the signal they are getting. How can you possibly compare there? I am shopping for my first HDTV, finally (46 yrs old, more audio-centric), and at Best Buy the other day the C-Net highest rated 40" Vizio TV had squared-off/pixelated O's, etc. and did not look nearly as good as the one next to it. I knew the answer but asked the guy anyway since he seemed acceptably geeky, I mean knowledgeable, and he confirmed that different TVs ran through different boxes and that you couldn't tell based on in-store viewing what it would look like when you get it home. If someone has a different thought please chime in.

Here is the CNET review of the Samsung 6350 series. FWIW they liked the Vizeo M (and E) series PQ much better.

cnet.com/products/samsung-un55h6350

"The Bad: Lighter black levels and uneven picture uniformity lead to a mediocre home theater image; bad sound quality; Smart TV design can be overwhelming.

The Bottom Line: Despite picture quality that's just average, the Samsung UNH6350's high-end features and design for a midrange price will win plenty of converts."
Reading both of the reviews, it looks like they Vizio has better black levels and Samsung better motion resolution. I'd be curious to hear about others' thoughts/experiences on this.

Vizio 2014 M Series review:

http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-m422i-b1/2/
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