Vizio Demo: M Series vs. Samsung H7150 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 48Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Vizio Demo: M Series vs. Samsung H7150



Last Tuesday, I had the opportunity to see the latest Vizio M-series TV—a 60-inch M602i-B2—side by side with a 60-inch Samsung UN60H7150. It was Vizio's event, which means the company was trying to show its television in the most positive light, so I was prepared to be skeptical. It's always a bit of a challenge to decide what to make of manufacturer demos, while at the same time they often present an early opportunity to get a feel for how new products perform.

When it comes to televisions, the best demos are as transparent as possible. That means knowing the actual settings used on each TV and switching between ambient lighting and an entirely dark room while being in control of the session. It helps if the demo includes test patterns, not just eye candy. Fortunately, Vizio's demo met my definition of transparent—nothing was hidden, nothing was off limits. Mind you, I didn't bring a calibration kit with me—I had to rely on my eyes and my trusty pocket camera.

Even though the room was bright, the moment I walked in I could see that the new M series represents a new level of quality of LCD HDTVs at that price point. The Samsung H7150 was directly ahead of me as I walked through the door, and the Vizio was off to the left. The Samsung had very prominent LCD artifacts, including washed-out letterbox bars that pulsated thanks to the set's edgelighting. The Vizio M-series TV was off to the left, but it was already showing better contrast, better color, and deeper blacks. Most notably, the letterbox bars were extremely dark—plasma dark. I had already seen the Vizio sets at CES 2014, so I knew what to expect in terms of image quality—however, when I noticed blackout shades on the windows, I immediately asked to make the room dark.


Vizio M (2014) vs. Samsung H7150 by ImagicDigital

Most of the demo involved scenes from The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug—excellent material for evaluating all sorts of television performance parameters. I also took a good look at Avatar in 2D as well as a test pattern-based demonstration of motion resolution. Both movies provide plenty of fodder for videophiles, and I was surprised at how great Avatar looks in 2D.

Once the comparison got underway, the Vizio outperformed the Samsung in many ways. In a dark room, the M series had a plasma-like quality thanks to inky blacks that held up over a relatively wide viewing angle. Because the M series uses a backlit LED array, there were no distracting flashlight effects in the letterbox bars. The blacks in the image itself never got quite as dark as the letterbox bars, but it was darker than any of the blacks rendered by the Samsung. All in all, you have to be a very meticulous plasmaphile to find fault in the deep-black rendering of Vizio's M series. Halo artifacts were minimal, and the local dimming worked seamlessly, never becoming a distraction. It's literally a world apart from my two-year-old Vizio M series. In fact, the Samsung reminded me much more of my older Vizio, a 55-inch M3D550KD.

The Samsung H7150 is not the best performer in a darkened room, it's as simple as that. Many LED-edgelit TVs are plagued by distracting artifacts when viewed in the dark. There might be a few exceptions—for example, the latest Samsung UHDTVs (curved or not) and Panasonic's AX800U—but those are premium-priced UHDTVs. Samsung's H7150 is a top-tier HDTV, and it fared quite poorly compared to the backlit array in the 2014 Vizio M series.

Even after I opened the shades, the image-quality advantages of the Vizio remained. It had more contrast and sense of depth, and those dark black letterbox bars just made the image a pleasure to behold. I don't want to wax rhapsodic here, but I do love a TV capable of exceptional picture quality, and the Vizio had that in spades.

After I had my fill of comparing the two TVs using cinematic content, the demo moved on to the test-pattern phase—namely, a motion-resolution comparison that the Vizio managed to ace, while the Samsung struggled. The Vizio's handling of motion was clean regardless of the frame rate; you can see it in this video, which you should view full-screen in HD. Vizio's M is on the left and the Samsung is on the right:

When we turned off all motion resolution-enhancing features on both sets, the quality diminished—but even then, the Vizio M managed to look better than the Samsung, preserving more detail. The difference was not as pronounced as it was with motion interpolation turned on, but it was visible.


Turn Off Motion Interpolation by ImagicDigital

Ultimately, there's only so much I can glean from a 30-minute session with TV—especially without being able to calibrate it myself. On the other hand, there are some performance characteristics that remain consistent, regardless of calibration. The Vizio M series is clearly a very capable 1080p TV; its performance in a dark room is commendable, and the same characteristics benefit it in bright light as well. With any luck, I'll get my hands on a demo unit so I can dig deeper into its capabilities.

If you still think of Vizio as a value brand, it's time to recognize that the company is becoming a leader in image quality. The main reason for that is the use of a backlit LED array. Vizio had a number of LED-backlit TVs in 2013, but according to the company, the improvements in the local-dimming algorithm make the 2014 models much better. Based on the performance of Vizio's E series and M series, I must admit I am quite enthused to see the P series and R series under similar conditions.

Like AVS Forum on Facebook
Follow AVS Forum on Twitter
+1 AVS Forum on Google+

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com

Last edited by imagic; 06-19-2014 at 08:12 AM.
imagic is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 08:32 AM
Member
 
krips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post


Last Tuesday, I had the opportunity to see the latest Vizio M-series TV—a 55-inch M552i-B2—side by side with a 55-inch Samsung UN55H7150. It was Vizio's event, which means the company was trying to show its television in the most positive light, so I was prepared to be skeptical. It's always a bit of a challenge to decide what to make of manufacturer demos, while at the same time they often present an early opportunity to get a feel for how new products perform.

When it comes to televisions, the best demos are as transparent as possible. That means knowing the actual settings used on each TV and switching between ambient lighting and an entirely dark room while being in control of the session. It helps if the demo includes test patterns, not just eye candy. Fortunately, Vizio's demo met my definition of transparent—nothing was hidden, nothing was off limits. Mind you, I didn't bring a calibration kit with me—I had to rely on my eyes and my trusty pocket camera.

Even though the room was bright, the moment I walked in I could see that the new M series represents a new level of quality of LCD HDTVs at that price point. The Samsung H7150 was directly ahead of me as I walked through the door, and the Vizio was off to the left. The Samsung had very prominent LCD artifacts, including washed-out letterbox bars that pulsated thanks to the set's edgelighting. The Vizio M-series TV was off to the left, but it was already showing better contrast, better color, and deeper blacks. Most notably, the letterbox bars were extremely dark—plasma dark. I had already seen the Vizio sets at CES 2014, so I knew what to expect in terms of image quality—however, when I noticed blackout shades on the windows, I immediately asked to make the room dark.


Vizio M (2014) vs. Samsung H7150 by ImagicDigital

Most of the demo involved scenes from The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug—excellent material for evaluating all sorts of television performance parameters. I also took a good look at Avatar in 2D as well as a test pattern-based demonstration of motion resolution. Both movies provide plenty of fodder for videophiles, and I was surprised at how great Avatar looks in 2D.

Once the comparison got underway, the Vizio outperformed the Samsung in many ways. In a dark room, the M series had a plasma-like quality thanks to inky blacks that held up over a relatively wide viewing angle. Because the M series uses a backlit LED array, there were no distracting flashlight effects in the letterbox bars. The blacks in the image itself never got quite as dark as the letterbox bars, but it was darker than any of the blacks rendered by the Samsung. All in all, you have to be a very meticulous plasmaphile to find fault in the deep-black rendering of Vizio's M series. Halo artifacts were minimal, and the local dimming worked seamlessly, never becoming a distraction. It's literally a world apart from my two-year-old Vizio M series. In fact, the Samsung reminded me much more of my older Vizio, a 55-inch M3D550KD.

The Samsung H7150 is not the best performer in a darkened room, it's as simple as that. Many LED-edgelit TVs are plagued by distracting artifacts when viewed in the dark. There might be a few exceptions—for example, the latest Samsung UHDTVs (curved or not) and Panasonic's AX800U—but those are premium-priced UHDTVs. Samsung's H7150 is a top-tier HDTV, and it fared quite poorly compared to the backlit array in the 2014 Vizio M series.

Even after I opened the shades, the image-quality advantages of the Vizio remained. It had more contrast and sense of depth, and those dark black letterbox bars just made the image a pleasure to behold. I don't want to wax rhapsodic here, but I do love a TV capable of exceptional picture quality, and the Vizio had that in spades.

After I had my fill of comparing the two TVs using cinematic content, the demo moved on to the test-pattern phase—namely, a motion-resolution comparison that the Vizio managed to ace, while the Samsung struggled. The Vizio's handling of motion was clean regardless of the frame rate; you can see it in this video, which you should view full-screen in HD. Vizio's M is on the left and the Samsung is on the right:
Vizio M vs. Samsung H7150 Motion Resolution Test

When we turned off all motion resolution-enhancing features on both sets, the quality diminished—but even then, the Vizio M managed to look better than the Samsung, preserving more detail. The difference was not as pronounced as it was with motion interpolation turned on, but it was visible.


Turn Off Motion Interpolation by ImagicDigital

Ultimately, there's only so much I can glean from a 30-minute session with TV—especially without being able to calibrate it myself. One the other hand, there are some performance characteristics that remain consistent, regardless of calibration. The Vizio M series is clearly a very capable 1080p TV; its performance in a dark room is commendable, and the same characteristics benefit it in bright light as well. With any luck, I'll get my hands on a demo unit so I can dig deeper into its capabilities.

If you still think of Vizio as a value brand, it's time to recognize that the comapny is becoming a leader in image quality. The main reason for that is the use of a backlit LED array. Vizio had a number of LED-backlit TVs in 2013, but according to the company, the improvements in the local-dimming algorithm make the 2014 models much better. Based on the performance of Vizio's E series and M series, I must admit I am quite enthused to see the P series and R series under similar conditions.
The edge lit LCD TV will never match with backlit full array with local dimming. This was one of the major issue that prevented me to buy any TV back then in 2011 and that's why I finally bought Sony XBR55HX929 a full array with local dimming and it still looks amazing.

Though I could have got good deal on Panasonic plasma TV through my company's perk discount but, the buzzing issue and burn-in issue (yes it's still present though highly improved) still exist.
krips is offline  
post #3 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 08:45 AM
Member
 
kevinmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 13
but ....

The new Vizio is truly amazing ....... until you get off axis. Then the VA panel displays its inherent weaknesses and for me becomes unwatchable. This wasn't something I picked up in the store. I didn't even notice it in my viewing room because I was so enamored with the display .... until I sat about 30 degrees off center .... and was shocked at how poor it was. So, buy it if you only watch front on, but if your room allows people to watch off center be aware that they will see almost a 50% reduction in picture quality.
videobruce and StinDaWg like this.
kevinmat is offline  
post #4 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 08:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
preludejtstyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springboro, Oh 45066
Posts: 663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 21
So if I go into my local BBY, and put the Sammy and Vizio both on standard, you think I'm going to enjoy what I see on both sets?
preludejtstyle is offline  
post #5 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 08:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
Hisma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 357 Post(s)
Liked: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by krips View Post
The edge lit LCD TV will never match with backlit full array with local dimming. This was one of the major issue that prevented me to buy any TV back then in 2011 and that's why I finally bought Sony XBR55HX929 a full array with local dimming and it still looks amazing.

Though I could have got good deal on Panasonic plasma TV through my company's perk discount but, the buzzing issue and burn-in issue (yes it's still present though highly improved) still exist.
This is simply an untrue statement.

Are you saying that all FALD sets have superior PQ to all edge-lit sets, simply because FALD is inherently better?

If that's the case, then the < $1000 vizio E series should outmatch the $5000 sony x900B or $4000 samsung HU9000 & Panasonic AX800U, which are all edge-lit sets. See any of those sets with your own eyes, and tell me if you still believe that statement.
Hisma is online now  
post #6 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by preludejtstyle View Post
So if I go into my local BBY, and put the Sammy and Vizio both on standard, you think I'm going to enjoy what I see on both sets?
I don't know, in this comparison both TVs were in movie mode, not standard.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is online now  
post #7 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 08:58 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
videobruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,329
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 160
imagic;
Thanks for the timely comparison.

kevinmat;
It's too bad Vizio went back to VA panels, obviously because of cost. I'd like to see more input from others on off axis viewing.

.
.
Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
videobruce is offline  
post #8 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinmat View Post
The new Vizio is truly amazing ....... until you get off axis. Then the VA panel displays its inherent weaknesses and for me becomes unwatchable. This wasn't something I picked up in the store. I didn't even notice it in my viewing room because I was so enamored with the display .... until I sat about 30 degrees off center .... and was shocked at how poor it was. So, buy it if you only watch front on, but if your room allows people to watch off center be aware that they will see almost a 50% reduction in picture quality.
While I agree, the shocking thing to me was how much narrower the "optimum" viewing angle was on the H7150 vs. the Vizio M. Even though the "cone of quality" was about 50-60 degrees on the Vizio, it was closer to 30-40 degrees on the Samsung—basically about half that of the Vizio—which tended to show more LCD technology-related flaws when viewed head-on than the Vizio did viewed from a moderate off-angle perspective. Of course this is a subjective evaluation and guestimated numbers, I look forward to a comparison based on lab measurements.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is online now  
post #9 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:02 AM
Member
 
DistractedJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Should be intresting to see what the people from the Vizio forum's have to day after they read this...
DistractedJohn is offline  
post #10 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JWhip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 4,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Mark, any word on the R series?
JWhip is online now  
post #11 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:17 AM
Member
 
krips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisma View Post
This is simply an untrue statement.

Are you saying that all FALD sets have superior PQ to all edge-lit sets, simply because FALD is inherently better?

If that's the case, then the < $1000 vizio E series should outmatch the $5000 sony x900B or $4000 samsung HU9000 & Panasonic AX800U, which are all edge-lit sets. See any of those sets with your own eyes, and tell me if you still believe that statement.
No that's not what I mean. That's your assumption. Everything is not created equally. When I'm talking about both technology, I'm talking about their (manufacturer) flagship models. When I compared my set with the then Samsung flagship model that was edge lit with local dimming.

I hope you were not expecting me to talk about all the edge lit models and full array local dimming models.
krips is offline  
post #12 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:22 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,125
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinmat View Post
The new Vizio is truly amazing ....... until you get off axis. Then the VA panel displays its inherent weaknesses and for me becomes unwatchable. This wasn't something I picked up in the store. I didn't even notice it in my viewing room because I was so enamored with the display .... until I sat about 30 degrees off center .... and was shocked at how poor it was. So, buy it if you only watch front on, but if your room allows people to watch off center be aware that they will see almost a 50% reduction in picture quality.
Samsung uses VA panels also, so I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make.

While I appreciate Mark's write-up and his sharing what he say, and please keep in mind I'm not trying to poo-poo it, there are just so many variables that make the viewing angle comparison worth very little.

1) Vizio doesn't use the same LCD panel maker for all sizes, so the performance of the other sizes may not match the 55" set Mark viewed.
2) Samsung does it one worse and doesn't even use the same LCD panel in all the sets of a given size within the model line. You might find a 55" H7150 with any one of three or more different company's LCD panel and they don't perform the same.

For all we know the 55" is the best performing size in Vizio's M-series lineup, and they played the panel lottery on the 55" H7150 to get the worst performing version of it to compare the 55" to.
Stereodude is online now  
post #13 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:26 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,125
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Mark, any word on the R series?
Per Mark's other posts, Vizio would not say anything on the record about either the P-series or Reference series. However, the Reference series was still on the model roadmap Vizio's showed as a 2014 model.
Stereodude is online now  
post #14 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Samsung uses VA panels also, so I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make.

While I appreciate Mark's write-up and his sharing what he say, and please keep in mind I'm not trying to poo-poo it, there are just so many variables that make the viewing angle comparison worth very little.

1) Vizio doesn't use the same LCD panel maker for all sizes, so the performance of the other sizes may not match the 55" set Mark viewed.
2) Samsung does it one worse and doesn't even use the same LCD panel in all the sets of a given size within the model line. You might find a 55" H7150 with any one of three or more different company's LCD panel and they don't perform the same.

For all we know the 55" is the best performing size in Vizio's M-series lineup, and they played the panel lottery on the 55" H7150 to get the worst performing version of it to compare the 55" to.
You are 100% correct, my observations on viewing angle are only applicable to the 55-inch model, although it's unknown to me if Vizio actually uses different suppliers for different size screens in the 2014 lineup.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com

Last edited by imagic; 06-13-2014 at 11:22 AM.
imagic is online now  
post #15 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:30 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,125
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
kevinmat;
It's too bad Vizio went back to VA panels, obviously because of cost. I'd like to see more input from others on off axis viewing.
Personal, I'd rather have increased head on contrast with a little worse off axis performance over a greater tendency toward blooming and inferior head on contrast, but less color shift and contrast loss off axis. However, I realize you and others may not feel the same.
Muza and venus933 like this.
Stereodude is online now  
post #16 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:34 AM
Member
 
peterfram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 22
I have a Vizio 2010 SV472XVT 47-Inch Class XVT Series and a Samsung 2012 UN55EH6070 55-Inch. Both are fully calibrated with Disney WoW method. The Vizio has superior picture quality overall, especially the viewing angle. The Samsung only slightly performs better in color depth. Based on my experience Vizio is a better investment. Overall I am not at that impressed with my first and probably last Samsung. So this comparison above is pretty much what I would expect.
peterfram is offline  
post #17 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:42 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,125
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
...although it's unknown if Vizio actually uses different suppliers for different size screens in the 2014 lineup.
They most certainly use different LCD suppliers at different sizes. That's why the specs aren't the same for all the 2014 M-series models in terms of brightness and # of colors / color depth. For example, the 60" has a 10-bit panel, the other sizes are 8-bit (not sure about the 70").
Stereodude is online now  
post #18 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:43 AM
Member
 
kevinmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Personal, I'd rather have increased head on contrast with a little worse off axis performance over a greater tendency toward blooming and inferior head on contrast, but less color shift and contrast loss off axis. However, I realize you and others may not feel the same.
Agreed, however going from a 2013 Vizio IPS panel with frankly great off axis viewing characteristics it was a shock to see the poor viewing angles of the new model, so front on viewers will love it, others will hate it. I would have gladly paid $100 more to retain the IPS panel characteristics - unless they are using VA panels for some other reason.

FYI I purchased a 60" M602i-B3 - but the 55" reviewed here seems to use a similar panel

Interesting comment on the Samsung viewing angles being inferior ...

Last edited by kevinmat; 06-13-2014 at 09:46 AM.
kevinmat is offline  
post #19 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kilgore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Posts: 3,166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Were these displays calibrated for the room they were in? Otherwise, this comparison is completely pointless.
Kilgore is online now  
post #20 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinmat View Post
Agreed, however going from a 2013 Vizio IPS panel with frankly great off axis viewing characteristics it was a shock to see the poor viewing angles of the new model, so front on viewers will love it, others will hate it. I would have gladly paid $100 more to retain the IPS panel characteristics - unless they are using VA panels for some other reason.

Interesting comment on the Samsung viewing angles being inferior ...
In the long-term, an IPS panel with FALD is just about the only way a LCD TV is going to satisfy a plasma fan, or even a sports bar owner. However, the VA panel Vizio used on the TV I saw does offer a decent viewing cone—and a rather stunning picture viewed head-on.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is online now  
post #21 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
Were these displays calibrated for the room they were in? Otherwise, this comparison is completely pointless.
Given that I checked them out with windows open and closed, a calibration to a specific viewing environment was not going to be enough. I stayed away from discussing color accuracy—I focused on obvious differences that remain self-evident regardless of the color calibration settings—motion processing, viewing angles, and etc.

Both TVs were in their respective movie modes, and the settings on both TVs were appropriate for moderate ambient light. I found the demo to be useful, but I understand if you do not.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is online now  
post #22 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 10:00 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,125
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
In the long-term, an IPS panel with FALD is just about the only way a LCD TV is going to satisfy a plasma fan, or even a sports bar owner. However, the VA panel Vizio used on the TV I saw does offer a decent viewing cone—and a rather stunning picture viewed head-on.
FALD + IPS = potential trouble. The zone count has to very high on an IPS panel to avoid issues due to the inferior native contrast ratio of the IPS panel, and tendency for off axis black glow on IPS panels. Those to characteristics don't play all that well with a FALD backlight if you are looking to minimize blooming.
Stereodude is online now  
post #23 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
FALD + IPS = potential trouble. The zone count has to very high on an IPS panel to avoid issues due to the inferior native contrast ratio of the IPS panel, and tendency for off axis black glow on IPS panels. Those to characteristics don't play all that well with a FALD backlight if you are looking to minimize blooming.
All good points. One of the things I've gleaned talking to multiple TV engineers is that the algorithms and processing behind local dimming are improving at a rapid pace—in fact, improvements in local dimming implementation might be the single biggest contributor to improved LCD TV performance these days.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is online now  
post #24 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 10:18 AM
Senior Member
 
rtn5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinmat View Post
Agreed, however going from a 2013 Vizio IPS panel with frankly great off axis viewing characteristics it was a shock to see the poor viewing angles of the new model, so front on viewers will love it, others will hate it. I would have gladly paid $100 more to retain the IPS panel characteristics - unless they are using VA panels for some other reason.

FYI I purchased a 60" M602i-B3 - but the 55" reviewed here seems to use a similar panel

Interesting comment on the Samsung viewing angles being inferior ...
They do not use the same panel. The 60" is a B3 (10-bit Sharp) and the 55" is a B2 (8-bit AUO)
rtn5000 is offline  
post #25 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 10:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
videobruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,329
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Quote:
For all we know the 55" is the best performing size in Vizio's M-series lineup, and they played the panel lottery on the 55" H7150 to get the worst performing version of it to compare the 55" to.
.
Or, they hand picked from a 5 or 10 Vizio's the best one, then did the reverse with the Sammy, found the worst one.
I'm sure what was sent was not the first one someone grabbed.

.
.
Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
videobruce is offline  
post #26 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 10:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rlindo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 4,747
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Given that I checked them out with windows open and closed, a calibration to a specific viewing environment was not going to be enough. I stayed away from discussing color accuracy—I focused on obvious differences that remain self-evident regardless of the color calibration settings—motion processing, viewing angles, and etc.

Both TVs were in their respective movie modes, and the settings on both TVs were appropriate for moderate ambient light. I found the demo to be useful, but I understand if you do not.
I'd say it is useful for the average buyer (or average AVS LCD forum member who doesn't actually calibrate their TV) since they will just buy a TV and throw it into one of those preset modes and watch.

As a full comparison there are issues. First, the panel lottery as Stereodude stated and then there is the fact images can be very different once calibrated and it is possible the default mode of this Samsung set is nothing compared to when it is calibrated. Having spent time and calibrated a Sharp SQ, I know how different some sets can be when they are calibrated compared to out of the box (the Sharp is lousy out of the box while quite nice calibrated) with a few minor tweaks to things like contrast and brightness done.

That you apparently didn't find the Samsung aspect ratio bars to be black with ambient light says to me the Samsung was seriously flawed in some way. On that Sharp SQ the bars are pretty much indistinguishable with ambient light as are the bars on my Samsung D630 LCD from a few years ago with light or even in the dark with any fairly bright scene playing and in general LCD black looks black with ambient light. Maybe this Samsung has a worse black level than all those sets yet I doubt it.

All in all, thanks for passing along this info of what you saw. I wouldn't doubt the M series will look better than the 7150 when both are calibrated to d65 with accurate colours and the same gamma yet I do wonder if the difference would increase or decrease if so.

ROB
rlindo is offline  
post #27 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
.
Or, they hand picked from a 5 or 10 Vizio's the best one, then did the reverse with the Sammy, found the worst one.
I'm sure what was sent was not the first one someone grabbed.
Of course that is possible. On the other hand, recent feedback on the backlit 2014 Vizios supports the notion that they are the TV to beat in terms of price/performance for a HDTV. The only thing you can be sure of is that you can't be sure of anything. As far as I know, only Consumer Reports does what it takes to remain unbiased and unaffected by "selectivity" when reviewing a TV—it buys TVs off store shelves and it does not accept advertising.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is online now  
post #28 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,332
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1684 Post(s)
Liked: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post
I'd say it is useful for the average buyer (or average AVS LCD forum member who doesn't actually calibrate their TV) since they will just buy a TV and throw it into one of those preset modes and watch.

As a full comparison there are issues. First, the panel lottery as Stereodude stated and then there is the fact images can be very different once calibrated and it is possible the default mode of this Samsung set is nothing compared to when it is calibrated. Having spent time and calibrated a Sharp SQ, I know how different some sets can be when they are calibrated compared to out of the box (the Sharp is lousy out of the box while quite nice calibrated) with a few minor tweaks to things like contrast and brightness done.

That you apparently didn't find the Samsung aspect ratio bars to be black with ambient light says to me the Samsung was seriously flawed in some way. On that Sharp SQ the bars are pretty much indistinguishable with ambient light as are the bars on my Samsung D630 LCD from a few years ago with light or even in the dark with any fairly bright scene playing and in general LCD black looks black with ambient light. Maybe this Samsung has a worse black level than all those sets yet I doubt it.

All in all, thanks for passing along this info of what you saw. I wouldn't doubt the M series will look better than the 7150 when both are calibrated to d65 with accurate colours and the same gamma yet I do wonder if the difference would increase or decrease if so.
The letterbox bars on all 2014 Vizios are a revelation for anyone who watches 2.40:1 content on older Vizio M, and most other edgelit TVs... the backlight just shuts off and they are deep black as a result. It's impossible for an edgelit TV to imitate that effect. It mostly matters for dark room viewing. If/when a Vizio finally sneaks into a TV shootout, that performance characteristic will be quite obvious.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com

Last edited by imagic; 06-13-2014 at 10:58 AM.
imagic is online now  
post #29 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 11:24 AM
Senior Member
 
Icon13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by preludejtstyle View Post
So if I go into my local BBY, and put the Sammy and Vizio both on standard, you think I'm going to enjoy what I see on both sets?
No. But, if you put them both on cinema/movie mode you just may. Those should be the most accurate. Standard is to cool/blue for my taste.

THE ALL MIGHTY MACACASIAH HAS SPOKEN!
Icon13 is online now  
post #30 of 167 Old 06-13-2014, 11:32 AM
Member
 
kevinmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
FALD + IPS = potential trouble. The zone count has to very high on an IPS panel to avoid issues due to the inferior native contrast ratio of the IPS panel, and tendency for off axis black glow on IPS panels. Those to characteristics don't play all that well with a FALD backlight if you are looking to minimize blooming.
This is very interesting. I had thought there might be some substantial reason for not using IPS panels due to inferior contrast, this helps me significantly. Thanks.
kevinmat is offline  
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Tags
frontpage

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off