4K analysis By Chad B presented by CP : 65X900B VS 65X950B VS 65UB9800 VS UN65HU8550 - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post
These sets are going ot have to sell based on their upscaling abilities. True 4K source material is good for demos but unrealistic. You can not compare the industry's 4K move to when we went from SD to HD. Sony has lost a ton of money with their bet on blu ray. DVD still outsells it. I highly suspect in several years there will only be a l handfull of movies on 4K, possibly still no 4K player, and horrible 4K compression on select cable broadcasts.
You know at 63 and retired now from IT Management/Services/Purchasing and having worked in this industry in the past and grown up with it's evolution since the 1950's I've heard your statement yearly at every turn of advancement in electronics and I assert your being short sighted as to global forces reality and that nothing stops since evolution - not Sony, Pioneer, Fujitsu, or anyone else as todays BEST is the enemy of tomorrows better and no one has been able to halt this train EVER! Do you think things would jusr stop if Sony folded or any one company? Hell NO!

Go read Asian trade journals where broadband is far above US ability, Japan has tested Super Hivision for about 6 years already and where Korea companies pirate tech right/left and China is on board with OLED with three major manufacturers partnered with LG and China is in it's infancy with their industrial revolution and infrastructure build-out.

Sorry, I'd gladly wager that your assertion is wrong as Netflix and other providers aren't going to sit still and Sony has significant control over sports/media 4K camera's just as they did during 1080P HD rollout. Upscaling will be a holdover layer but content will evolve and if Sony sits on their hands others will run them over and eat their lunch.

You really need to look at global picture to see the 4K Train is becoming a bullet train and just watch what happens at CES 2015 - no one cares that Sony lost revenue - Blu-ray was a step forward but the Train for 4K has left the Station and is just another revenue stream that never stops since the 1950's and we all reap the benefits and yes some companies will fall by the wayside if they sit on their 1080P laurels! There's too many billions at stake at this party to = Failure!

Sony complaining they lost money on BD is like Hillary Clinton complaining they left office $broke when in fact they have net income of about 80 million since and live like billionaires while in the Whitehouse - Sony had numerous other revenue streams and had they not done it Toshiba HD was just as good.
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Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's

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post #272 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 10:18 AM
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Agreed...posting the links would very helpful
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post #273 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 10:47 AM
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Many of us, at least me, are interested in the results of this test, not because we are in the market for a new TV now in 2014. But we will eventually be and 4K will most likely be either our first choice or our only choice. That being said, most of us have friends that usually use us as a sounding board as to what they should buy and I take that very seriously. Whoever wins this comparison will likely establish itself as the go to brand for at least a year or two. They may be King by a small margin but the title King will still be theirs alone. Of course we all know what eventually happens to the King.
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post #274 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 12:19 PM
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I agree with westa6969 and Ken Ross! The only time I went onto the plasma forum was to post about vinnie97, That I found him!Neverless I got tired of the trolling on LCD forum!
OH NO! I think I just got a bad boy notice!
When Plasma came out they cost a ton of money and had burn in problems,OLED came out and cost a ton of money and has burn in problems!
LG stated that their OLED has the same burn out rate as Plasma,maybe 30,000!Samsung,Panasonic and Sony think it is less,that is why 4K LCD for them!

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post #275 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 01:10 PM
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Reviews of all three 4K sets posted in their respective owner's threads.

I should be writing up the comparison from my notes next week, as well as some words on the 85" Panasonic plasma.
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post #276 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Reviews of all three 4K sets posted in their respective owner's threads.

I should be writing up the comparison from my notes next week, as well as some words on the 85" Panasonic plasma.
Chad,

R u still going to review the X900B when a new one appears?
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post #277 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
You know at 63 and retired now from IT Management/Services/Purchasing and having worked in this industry in the past and grown up with it's evolution since the 1950's I've heard your statement yearly at every turn of advancement in electronics and I assert your being short sighted as to global forces reality and that nothing stops since evolution - not Sony, Pioneer, Fujitsu, or anyone else as todays BEST is the enemy of tomorrows better and no one has been able to halt this train EVER! Do you think things would jusr stop if Sony folded or any one company? Hell NO!

Go read Asian trade journals where broadband is far above US ability, Japan has tested Super Hivision for about 6 years already and where Korea companies pirate tech right/left and China is on board with OLED with three major manufacturers partnered with LG and China is in it's infancy with their industrial revolution and infrastructure build-out.

Sorry, I'd gladly wager that your assertion is wrong as Netflix and other providers aren't going to sit still and Sony has significant control over sports/media 4K camera's just as they did during 1080P HD rollout. Upscaling will be a holdover layer but content will evolve and if Sony sits on their hands others will run them over and eat their lunch.

You really need to look at global picture to see the 4K Train is becoming a bullet train and just watch what happens at CES 2015 - no one cares that Sony lost revenue - Blu-ray was a step forward but the Train for 4K has left the Station and is just another revenue stream that never stops since the 1950's and we all reap the benefits and yes some companies will fall by the wayside if they sit on their 1080P laurels! There's too many billions at stake at this party to = Failure!

Sony complaining they lost money on BD is like Hillary Clinton complaining they left office $broke when in fact they have net income of about 80 million since and live like billionaires while in the Whitehouse - Sony had numerous other revenue streams and had they not done it Toshiba HD was just as good.
I understand where you are coming from and I hope I am completely wrong. But here is why I think this is a different situation.

1) The move to HD from SD was not primarily market driven. It was a result of government intervention for networks to be off analog by a certain date. This was a case where I welcomed government involvment. Without that intervention we might still very well be stuck in analog hell.

2) It's not just Sony. Blu Ray in general has been a disappointment from a sales perspective. Because of this, I suspect manufacturers are going to be extremely hesitant to make large investments into 4K discs. It would also require studios to be willing to make the film transfer into 4K. So it's not a technology barrier, it's a revenue incentive barrier on potential 4K disc player manufacturers, production of discs, and transfer of the film.

3) I know there was mention of the Japanese broadcast to soon be doing 4K. However, they have been many years ahead of us in this area. By the time HD started becoming common in the states, it was ancient tech in Japan. Based on how far behind we were on HD compared to them, I can see a 10-15 year lag before we catch up (minimum).

4) Upscaling can get very close to 4K resolution (from a human eye perspective). With that Upscaling ability, we have every movie released in Blu Ray ready to view. We don't have to wait years for a slow drip of titles to come out, assuming any do at all.

And that's why I said the success of 4K will have to depend on the new TV's Upscaling abilities. If you can get 80% of the way there with upscaling, then that will be enough to sell 4K sets. If true 4K ever arrives, then that will just be icing on the cake.
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post #278 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lgroveman View Post
Chad,

R u still going to review the X900B when a new one appears?
Hopefully Chris will get a replacement in when either I have a break in my tour schedule or I am close by.
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post #279 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 09:09 PM
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I understand where you are coming from and I hope I am completely wrong. But here is why I think this is a different situation.

1) The move to HD from SD was not primarily market driven. It was a result of government intervention for networks to be off analog by a certain date. This was a case where I welcomed government involvment. Without that intervention we might still very well be stuck in analog hell.

2) It's not just Sony. Blu Ray in general has been a disappointment from a sales perspective. Because of this, I suspect manufacturers are going to be extremely hesitant to make large investments into 4K discs. It would also require studios to be willing to make the film transfer into 4K. So it's not a technology barrier, it's a revenue incentive barrier on potential 4K disc player manufacturers, production of discs, and transfer of the film.

3) I know there was mention of the Japanese broadcast to soon be doing 4K. However, they have been many years ahead of us in this area. By the time HD started becoming common in the states, it was ancient tech in Japan. Based on how far behind we were on HD compared to them, I can see a 10-15 year lag before we catch up (minimum).

4) Upscaling can get very close to 4K resolution (from a human eye perspective). With that Upscaling ability, we have every movie released in Blu Ray ready to view. We don't have to wait years for a slow drip of titles to come out, assuming any do at all.

And that's why I said the success of 4K will have to depend on the new TV's Upscaling abilities. If you can get 80% of the way there with upscaling, then that will be enough to sell 4K sets. If true 4K ever arrives, then that will just be icing on the cake.
What if 4K takes off in digital distribution form? Right now, 4K content is only available on hard drives or streaming/download form anyway. With the ability to do away with physical media, 4K can take off due to reduced overhead from digital distribution.

Physical media is dying, internet sales are booming. 4K can capitalize there. Sony is already offering 4K downloads with their fmp video player. Sony would be CRAZY to keep their content exclusive.
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post #280 of 430 Old 06-28-2014, 09:14 PM
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Hopefully Chris will get a replacement in when either I have a break in my tour schedule or I am close by.
Thanks for all your hard work Chad. We appreciate it!!!
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post #281 of 430 Old 06-29-2014, 01:22 AM
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Well, Sony could increase the zone count on the next model.
And you know they will Stereodude...as they will always try to keep up with the Jones's that constantly are trying to creep up the basement stairs...step by step. Uh oh did you just hear that? They are almost on the top stair now chanting Vizio reference series, reference series...LOL

Will the little dog get kicked back down the stairs by the big boyz or not? We will all soon enough find out people as the release ebbs closer day by day.

Gotta luv a good ultra def tech fight, especially since we inevitably as consumers win. Only problem is that Sony will now have to wait until 2015 to "zone up" on the little dog since their 2014 product lines are set.

Then you got LG boasting 110" OLED by the end of 2014 & even 8k OLED once they solve the increased heat. The 77" OLED 4k is carrying a really big reality stick too, as they are slowly becoming ever better hurdlers in the fabrication of OLED's btw, Sony are you listening??

I smell some price choice cuts getting grilled by 4th quarter via Sony product 4k lines IMO. Pass me the the A1 sauce & a beer, grab a seat on the bleachers and watch the maneuvers play out gangum style.

IF LG's huge initial investment into OLED, and seems like the sole investment btw pans out, all the other manufacturers will buy their panels and stick their own electronics behind them selling them as their own brands.

Huge win for all as LG's stock soars and consumers finally get their dream gear at affordable prices. All depends upon their hurdling ability. OLED has 4 to overcome, we all should know what those are by now. If not, back to the drawing boards. IMO.

Please do not ask where I get my info as it's just IMO ok. Specifics on the 110" although can be found in my prior posts fyi.


What we will be is not what we are, what we are is not what we were...therefore hoping in all things becomes possible.

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post #282 of 430 Old 06-29-2014, 02:11 AM
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What if 4K takes off in digital distribution form? Right now, 4K content is only available on hard drives or streaming/download form anyway. With the ability to do away with physical media, 4K can take off due to reduced overhead from digital distribution.

Physical media is dying, internet sales are booming. 4K can capitalize there. Sony is already offering 4K downloads with their fmp video player. Sony would be CRAZY to keep their content exclusive.
I concur with you Hisma,

If memory serves with Sony's 2 media players 4k rentals @ $6.99 each & $29.99 a pop to buy, that's hella lotta potential much needed revenue the Sony Corp. desperately needs right now that they could be receiving in the digital domain... if only they flipped that proprietary switch off.

I can imagine their big twigs at the round table passing around the deodorant while they sweat this this one out...

What we will be is not what we are, what we are is not what we were...therefore hoping in all things becomes possible.
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post #283 of 430 Old 06-29-2014, 04:30 AM
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What if 4K takes off in digital distribution form? Right now, 4K content is only available on hard drives or streaming/download form anyway. With the ability to do away with physical media, 4K can take off due to reduced overhead from digital distribution.

Physical media is dying, internet sales are booming. 4K can capitalize there. Sony is already offering 4K downloads with their fmp video player. Sony would be CRAZY to keep their content exclusive.
Well that brings up another problem. Yes, physical media is dying. Streaming seems to be the way of the future. However, with the very real possibility of net neutrality coming to an end soon, that could create an impasse to 4K streaming. Unless a much more efficient codec can be achieved for 4K without massive compression artifacts.

So while the manufacturers' overhead would go down from digital distribution, the customers' cost could go up dramatically if net neutrality ends. And IMHO, it's all but a done deal on that. The company spearheading the movement to end net neutrality is Comcast. The FCC will make the final decision on whether to end it. And Obama just appointed the lead lobbiest for Comcast as the head of the FCC.
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post #284 of 430 Old 06-29-2014, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post

So while the manufacturers' overhead would go down from digital distribution, the customers' cost could go up dramatically if net neutrality ends. And IMHO, it's all but a done deal on that. The company spearheading the movement to end net neutrality is Comcast. The FCC will make the final decision on whether to end it. And Obama just appointed the lead lobbiest for Comcast as the head of the FCC.
Gee, there's a surprise...not!
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post #285 of 430 Old 06-29-2014, 04:48 AM
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And you know they will Stereodude...as they will always try to keep up with the Jones's that constantly are trying to creep up the basement stairs...step by step. Uh oh did you just hear that? They are almost on the top stair now chanting Vizio reference series, reference series...LOL

Will the little dog get kicked back down the stairs by the big boyz or not? We will all soon enough find out people as the release ebbs closer day by day.

Gotta luv a good ultra def tech fight, especially since we inevitably as consumers win. Only problem is that Sony will now have to wait until 2015 to "zone up" on the little dog since their 2014 product lines are set.
Maybe Sony can add true HDMI 2.0 support for 2015 too.
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post #286 of 430 Old 06-29-2014, 06:05 AM
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This has turned into the strangest thread and was not what I was expecting after reading the thread title.

Can someone PM me when Chad's reviews are up.

Okay bitches, carry on.
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Reviews of all three 4K sets posted in their respective owner's threads.
Dude, post the links to these reviews and I'll double your celery!
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post #288 of 430 Old 06-29-2014, 07:33 AM
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This has turned into the strangest thread and was not what I was expecting after reading the thread title.



Can someone PM me when Chad's reviews are up.



Okay bitches, carry on.

His reviews are up. They are posted in each of the sets "owners thread". To make it easier you could just search for Chad's posts in his profile.


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post #289 of 430 Old 06-29-2014, 07:34 AM
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When Plasma came out they cost a ton of money and had burn in problems,OLED came out and cost a ton of money and has burn in problems!
LG stated that their OLED has the same burn out rate as Plasma,maybe 30,000!Samsung,Panasonic and Sony think it is less,that is why 4K LCD for them!
Ignoring the personal nonsense you posted, you are working on outdated information. Plasma lifespans at this mature stage are 100,000 hours. OLED is proving to be more resilient at this early stage against burn-in than plasma was at its debut. Let's not damn it too quickly since every tech ever created ventures through growing pains.
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Ignoring the personal nonsense you posted, you are working on outdated information. Plasma lifespans at this mature stage are 100,000 hours. OLED is proving to be more resilient at this early stage against burn-in than plasma was at its debut. Let's not damn it too quickly since every tech ever created ventures through growing pains.
My personal nonsense comes from the LG representative and your right I should have stated 30,000 to half life,never seen a plasma that will do 100,000 hours, neither will you! At 9,999.00 when OLED 55 inch appeared,it was just as much as a plasma when they first came out.
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My personal nonsense comes from the LG representative and your right I should have stated 30,000 to half life,never seen a plasma that will do 100,000 hours, neither will you! At 9,999.00 when OLED 55 inch appeared,it was just as much as a plasma when they first came out.


recent Panasonic plasmas clam 100,000 hours to half life, just like lg clams 30,000 for there oled. But who really knows how long they will last.
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post #294 of 430 Old 07-01-2014, 05:19 AM
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Chad,

Any overview/conclusions on these sets yet? Would really like to know how they compare to each other and what you found with regards to backlight banding on each set.

Thanks

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post #295 of 430 Old 07-01-2014, 06:48 AM
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My personal nonsense comes from the LG representative and your right I should have stated 30,000 to half life,never seen a plasma that will do 100,000 hours, neither will you! At 9,999.00 when OLED 55 inch appeared,it was just as much as a plasma when they first came out.
We have a 2002 NEC 60" plasma in our office that is always on, though sometimes with a screen saver image, that is north of 80,000 hours and going strong. And no burn-in whatsoever.
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post #296 of 430 Old 07-01-2014, 06:53 AM
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recent Panasonic plasmas clam 100,000 hours to half life, just like lg clams 30,000 for there oled. But who really knows how long they will last.
Who really needs them to last that long anyway? You could run the thing 12 hours a day for 20 years and not reach that many hours. And that's far longer than most people have their sets on a day for non-commercial use. I have a 10 year old plasma that is still going strong. Picture looks great. But I recently shelved it for a newer, larger TV. So my need expired long before the set did. For all intents-and=purposes plasma sets, lemons aside, will outlast their users interest in them. Anyone confident that the typical consumer LED screen with last over a decade from a component resiliency? Plasma or LED, the screen is not the weakest link.
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post #297 of 430 Old 07-01-2014, 07:11 AM
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We have a 2002 NEC 60" plasma in our office that is always on, though sometimes with a screen saver image, that is north of 80,000 hours and going strong. And no burn-in whatsoever.
That is great news that a plasma has made the 80,000 hours.
I like the good news for all the rest of the plasma owners.
I just can't figure out why the rest of the big boys are staying out of OLED?
Did LG figure out something that the others couldn't?
Is there a time in the future when LG OLED will have problems but be out of warranty,with the other big boys not wanting to take a hit on quality?
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post #298 of 430 Old 07-01-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Reviews of all three 4K sets posted in their respective owner's threads.

I should be writing up the comparison from my notes next week, as well as some words on the 85" Panasonic plasma.
Looking forward to your thoughts on the 85" Panasonic plasma!

Dave

FOR SALE: Wireworld Platinum 6 1M HDMI Cable. Originally $1000, selling for $500 obo. Please PM me, if interested.
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post #299 of 430 Old 07-01-2014, 09:27 AM
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Shopping for a large 4k set. Trying to determine which way to go in the 84" to 85" category.


LG 84UB9800
Samsung 85HU8550
Sony 85X950B


or go smaller with the Samsung 78HU9000


Looking for all thoughts. BTW: back-light banding drives me nuts!


Thanks
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post #300 of 430 Old 07-01-2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
That is great news that a plasma has made the 80,000 hours.
I like the good news for all the rest of the plasma owners.
I just can't figure out why the rest of the big boys are staying out of OLED?
Did LG figure out something that the others couldn't?
Is there a time in the future when LG OLED will have problems but be out of warranty,with the other big boys not wanting to take a hit on quality?
It's my understanding that LG developed a method where they can get an 80% successful panel rate where the competition is around 30% on their yields.
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