4K analysis By Chad B presented by CP : 65X900B VS 65X950B VS 65UB9800 VS UN65HU8550 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 06-25-2014, 04:18 PM
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I would have liked to see a more detailed comparison and review of the other sets. Just to say the Sony 900B has the best picture is not enough, A little more on why? was it the curve that hurt the Samsung? Would have liked measured contrast ratio and black levels on all the sets. It also would have been nice if he had last years full array from LG and the 900A to compare.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
I'm a little taken aback to hear that you hold Katzmaier in such high esteem, Digi. That surprises me (in a good way).


This goes without saying, no? I am assuredly positive that Chad's analysis will take into account more than this single aspect that doesn't necessarily weigh in as the most important (based on the relative weight of the four main PQ parameters as deduced by the ISF). I think I understand the point you're driving home in relation to the post you quoted, but all of the contenders here (minus a dead-end plasma) sport 4K making it a bit of a moot point.
I simply said the guy has reviewed enough TVs to at least be considered somewhat of an Industry expert. His 4k opinions have always been a bit questionable though.

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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
So I was reading all the haha from sony fans. Then I read the 3.5 wtf? All the sony fans who said katz is credible now what? Digimat? After reading what he wrote and the final score you still say he is legit? Or does his score make you now agree with all other posters that katz is not a good reviewer? Or is that 3.5 fair to you?

It's a scaled score, cost is his biggest gripe, hence the lower score and yes I value the man's opinion.
Of course it's not the end all be all...
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post
Most readers would probably be stunned to find out that no matter which Sony TV they buy it will not even have a Sony manufactured panel.
Call me crazy, but it's the final PQ that counts. I could care less if the panel is made by Sony or Burger King as long as whoever is putting in their processing & electronics ensures the end result is a great picture.

Would it make someone feel better if they bought a Sony TV with a Sony manufactured panel that had lousy PQ? This is the age we live in, many companies don't make the major components that comprise their product. No shocker here.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
I'm not buying the first generation 4k TVs , in few more years 4k TVs will improve , the prices will go down and also more 4k content will be available.
Except for OLED, we are largely past the first generation of 4K. We are in the middle of the 2nd gen right now.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Chad is here....our 900B is here, but it is cracked See no one is exempt from damages........

All the other units are up and running.........

Trying to dig up a HU9000 ..... maybe so far......
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
I would have liked to see a more detailed comparison and review of the other sets. Just to say the Sony 900B has the best picture is not enough, A little more on why? was it the curve that hurt the Samsung? Would have liked measured contrast ratio and black levels on all the sets. It also would have been nice if he had last years full array from LG and the 900A to compare.
He did say the black levels were better than any of the other sets.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Call me crazy, but it's the final PQ that counts. I could care less if the panel is made by Sony or Burger King as long as whoever is putting in their processing & electronics ensures the end result is a great picture.

Would it make someone feel better if they bought a Sony TV with a Sony manufactured panel that had lousy PQ? This is the age we live in, many companies don't make the major components that comprise their product. No shocker here.
I think the answer to your first question is a resounding yes, except for the lousy PQ part (since most associate a certain degree of quality with the Sony name). Not just some people but a whole lot of some peoples would feel better just because their panel was made by Sony. Especially if you told them their other options included AU, Chi Mei etc. Actually I would probably feel a littler more comfortable from a quality control standpoint if I knew my panel was actually manufactured by Sony. But I totally agree with you that the main end game is PQ. However, you have to admit, the difference between a Sony with a IPS panel will have different PQ than a Sony with a S-PVA panel. If those panels constituted your only variables which would you choose? You are also correct that many companies do not make their own major components, but I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of potential buyers would be shocked if you told them that Sony bought all of their panels from someone else.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
He did say the black levels were better than any of the other sets.
Yes, of the ones there. Now how close were they? And it would have been niece to see a 900A in the bunch just for comparison. CNET also missed the boat with last years LG full-array 65". I would like to see the actual point by point score of the sets there.

Last edited by Vegas oled; 06-25-2014 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Except for OLED, we are largely past the first generation of 4K. We are in the middle of the 2nd gen right now.
I spent a good hour at BB today viewing panels and the darkened Mag room was rather run of the mill being fed 1080 material and initially saw nothing in that room to impress as tired versions of Iron Man 3, and Avatar running on the Samsung/Sony 4K units but it wasn't much better than my 65F8000 and so I wandered out into the wall of whats usually the mundane budget panels and suddenly my eyes were drawn to this smallish 55" LG 9650 with IPS Panel and 4K located in the corner in the brightest area and I was stunned by it's 4K Feed by LG that were FBomB WoW!

My point is if this is 4K and it's potential for our future of HT - bring it on as it was HT Nirvana - the Holy Grail of HT has been found and it's 4K provided the industry can force their hands as that LG Feed was simply amazing and so I can only imagine taking that feed into an OLED 4K = perfection. To me it's every bit as superior a difference as 1080 is from 480. Definitely, after tody 4K is in my future but more than likely a larger LG OLED at minimum 65".

When I see members boast of minimal difference they obviously haven't seen the LG or Sony 4K Loop. The only thing that came close to the LG was a Sony 900A/B but of course the Sony easily had the best built-in sound I've ever heard. The LG lacked the sexiness of the Sony but it's 4K was hands down best in the store and of course I have no idea how this LG performs in the dark as BB put it in a corner like it needed a timeout. Look forward to this analysis but seeing them in person I came away with the Best was the 4K feed of the LG demoing the future we have to look forward to and with that we all WIN!

If anyone doubts my testimony and 4K then instead go to your store and look at the LG 4K Feed and this relatively unknown 9650 or newer versions of their 4K but just don't poop your pants. The LG 4K made the Mag room Mundane.

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Old 06-25-2014, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digimat View Post
I simply said the guy has reviewed enough TVs to at least be considered somewhat of an Industry expert. His 4k opinions have always been a bit questionable though.




It's a scaled score, cost is his biggest gripe, hence the lower score and yes I value the man's opinion.
Of course it's not the end all be all...
Ok fair.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Except for OLED, we are largely past the first generation of 4K. We are in the middle of the 2nd gen right now.
Technically we're in the 3rd if you want to get picky. You can't forget about the first gen of 84" ones from LG and Samsung that were $$$$$.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Chad is here....our 900B is here, but it is cracked See no one is exempt from damages........
Can you superglue it? Or maybe take it someplace that fixes car windshields?
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Except for OLED, we are largely past the first generation of 4K. We are in the middle of the 2nd gen right now.


I will wait ... no hurry I don't see any benefit for me right now. The price will drop in few years and we will see better performance TVs.




I know that you have a 4k camcorder so that makes more sense to own a 4k TV.

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Old 06-25-2014, 07:16 PM
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I can't wait to see how this goes. I'm trying to decide between getting the 65x950b or ditching my projector and getting the 79x900b. I read the 79 uses an ips panel but I can at least see how the 65s compare. Thanks for doing this mini shootout it's going to be a big help for me. I can't find a single 950 review yet.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Can you superglue it? Or maybe take it someplace that fixes car windshields?
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post
To me it's every bit as superior a difference as 1080 is from 480...

When I see members boast of minimal difference they obviously haven't seen the LG or Sony 4K Loop...
I wouldn't say the difference is minimal. The difference between 4K and HD was apparent to my eyes, however, to me it was definitely not as big a difference as 1080 was from 480. When I first saw 1080 HD I remember I, too, was "FBomB WoW" (to steal your line ). Not so when I first saw 4K on 55" Sony X900 in Magnolia. It only looked marginally sharper. Perhaps 4K is more noticeable in larger size screens?
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Apostate View Post
I wouldn't say the difference is minimal. The difference between 4K and HD was apparent to my eyes, however, to me it was definitely not as big a difference as 1080 was from 480. When I first saw 1080 HD I remember I, too, was "FBomB WoW" (to steal your line ). Not so when I first saw 4K on 55" Sony X900 in Magnolia. It only looked marginally sharper. Perhaps 4K is more noticeable in larger size screens?
IMO, don't hate me for an opinion. Unless your sitting 2 feet away a 55" 4k set, it is a waste. 65" and from there, the bigger the better. I really saw 4K shine on the 78" curved Samsung.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
Yes, of the ones there. Now how close were they? And it would have been niece to see a 900A in the bunch just for comparison. CNET also missed the boat with last years LG full-array 65". I would like to see the actual point by point score of the sets there.
Well, the fact that he said that some dark scenes on the Sony had better blacks than the ZT60 he was watching, should answer any questions you had about the competition that was there.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:50 PM
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Westa, I'm guessing you didn't have the new Sony Experience center in that BB.

I know all the 4K LG loops as well as the 4K LG display you saw. In my many trips to BB, I'd say the Sony 900B/950B and the Samsung 8500/9000 are superior displays relative to the LG. At least that's been my experience. They haven't fared well in several reviews either.

As for 4K material, the user selectable material within the Sony Experience centers, are the best I've seen and allow YOU to choose the material you want. You can play 4K, up scaled HD or even live TV. Sony shows some confidence in their displays to allow this flexibility. I think this run circles around the LG loop or even the Samsung demo.

But this brings up an important point regarding comparing these 4K displays, how do you do it? Each manufacturer has different, proprietary material on each of their displays. The Sony demos are very different than the Samsung and those are very different than the LG. Each was shot differently with very different scenes, making it extremely difficult to compare.

For me it's easier, since I have my own 4K material on a thumb drive that I can simply insert into any 2nd gen, 4K display I want. Same material on every display. For someone with no 4K camera, I'd suggest downloading some known 4K quality content on to a thumb drive and doing the same thing. There's nothing better than seeing the same material on different displays.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Well, the fact that he said that some dark scenes on the Sony had better blacks than the ZT60 he was watching, should answer any questions you had about the competition that was there.
I had the 900B and there are times when the blacks are superb. They struggle more when there is flashing of lights. If the Sony HX had better blacks I assume so would the Sharp Elite, didn't the Sharp Elite have the best blacks of all LED panels?
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:28 PM
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Chad,

I hope you will run at-least a 21 point detailed grayscale (numbers included) and at-least a 500 gamut. Before and after.
Of course I like your opinion but the detailed numbers and charts are even better.

ss
In CalMAN, the numbers in the data grids get cut off in the report with too many points using normal font size. However, I will try to reduce the font size so they show up because I do have a more detailed than normal report on the way.

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Old 06-25-2014, 09:37 PM
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I understand the frustration of the panel lottery. If there is specific info you would like checked regarding it please PM or post the exact info and where to find it.

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Old 06-25-2014, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Chad is here....our 900B is here, but it is cracked See no one is exempt from damages........

All the other units are up and running.........

Trying to dig up a HU9000 ..... maybe so far......
Aw dude what a bummer cracked?!?! Even the dealers are not exempt from gorilla warfare deliveries. So is the 900B out or will you get another? Too bad the review could not be pulled back a few weeks the 79" 900B may be available.

That set being passive 3D vs it's 2 smaller variants utilizing active 3D arouses my curiosity. tubetwister on here said he was sure it would be an IPS panel as well. Time will tell...

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Old 06-25-2014, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by timc1475 View Post
Aw dude what a bummer cracked?!?! Even the dealers are not exempt from gorilla warfare deliveries. So is the 900B out or will you get another? Too bad the review could not be pulled back a few weeks the 79" 900B may be available.

That set being passive 3D vs it's 2 smaller variants utilizing active 3D arouses my curiosity. tubetwister on here said he was sure it would be an IPS panel as well. Time will tell...
I wish they had the 79 too, I just have a bad feeling it's going to be like the w950b that moved to an ips panel and now has poor black levels - contrast.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
In CalMAN, the numbers in the data grids get cut off in the report with too many points using normal font size. However, I will try to reduce the font size so they show up because I do have a more detailed than normal report on the way.
Yes that is the problem with CM report it isn't detailed, therefore you really don't know what is going on with a display.

I have been using ArgyIICMS measurement reports. They are easy to read and understand for the avg AVS member.
Below is my last calibration report from ArgII.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...89629924196567

ss

Last edited by sillysally; 06-25-2014 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Yes that is the problem with CM report it isn't detailed, therefore you really don't know what is going on with a display.

I have been using ArgyIICMS measurement reports. They are easy to read and understand for the avg AVS member.
Below is my last calibration report from ArgII.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...89629924196567

ss
Your report is downloading as a .php file and I can't view it.

I made my own CalMAN custom report; it's only the text font size that's a limitation. After creating a PDF all the data is readable if it is zoomed to 800%.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Your report is downloading as a .php file and I can't view it.

I made my own CalMAN custom report; it's only the text font size that's a limitation. After creating a PDF all the data is readable if it is zoomed to 800%.
Open the report with your browser. (Internet Explorer, Google). That's all you need to open that report.

You don't need to blow up the ArgyII report I linked. Simply page down the report, very easy to read and to open. The report I posted is 493 points, on the left side of each line is the color, then the numbers, then the dE and chart, all on the same line for each color that was tested. You want to see green, not yellow, orange or red in the chart.

ss

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Old 06-26-2014, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
I had the 900B and there are times when the blacks are superb. They struggle more when there is flashing of lights. If the Sony HX had better blacks I assume so would the Sharp Elite, didn't the Sharp Elite have the best blacks of all LED panels?
Up to that point yes, the Elite was the King of black levels. Some insisted it was the King of all techs for black levels. But I don't know if the ZT & 900B might have surpassed it. We know that OLED has.

I think the point is that the best panels are so good now with black levels, it's more a splitting hairs issue.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:58 AM
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Do you guys have any equipment to test the input lag numbers on the sets?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Your report is downloading as a .php file and I can't view it.

I made my own CalMAN custom report; it's only the text font size that's a limitation. After creating a PDF all the data is readable if it is zoomed to 800%.
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:41 AM
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No, I could test the relative lag to each other, but not the absolute lag.
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