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post #301 of 310 Old 07-02-2014, 09:34 PM
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.factory calibrated ? ....................naaaah too easy besides a waste of good kilobytes !

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post #302 of 310 Old 07-02-2014, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopthrough View Post
With all due respect, this is the dumbest idea I've seen since those "make your screen larger" magnifying sheets they used to sell to people to put in front of their CRT TVs!


loopthrough, Oh no read about the Sony picture quality auto setting ,scene selection via the ip TV guide metadata stuff earlier in this thread now that was really dumb
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post #303 of 310 Old 07-03-2014, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
.factory calibrated ? ....................naaaah too easy besides a waste of good kilobytes !


If you compare the settings that you recommend for a Sony TV, you would notice that your TV is probably calibrated wrong.

Let's take the common Sony calibrations at Cnet (any model).

In general, the Cnet calibrated backlight is set to 1 for a Sony, yet you prefer the backlight being set at MAX. A bit different don't you think?

In general the color temperature used in a Cnet Sony TV calibration is set to Warm-2, and you seem to prefer the color temperature being set to neutral. A bit different don't you think?

Per Sony, here is a description of what a calibrated TV should look like as far as white is concerned.

Color Temperature
Adjusts the whiteness of the picture.

Cool
Gives white colors a bluish tint.

Neutral
Gives white colors a neutral tint.

Warm 1/Warm 2
Gives white colors a reddish tint. “Warm 2” gives a redder tint than “Warm 1.”

http://docs.esupport.sony.com/imanua...e_2b15_uc.html


So does the Cnet calibration retain the Sony Warm-2 as a reddish tint, or do they calibrate the reddish tint out to be neutral?


In the Sony 55NX720, the auto (general) mode uses the neutral color temperature. Yes whites are white. Same color temperature that you prefer with your "calibration".

In the Sony 55NX720, the auto (cinema) uses a Warm temperature setting. Warm-1 for Cinema-1, and Warm-2 for Cinema-2. Yes the whites are a bit reddish in the Cinema modes. I prefer Warm-1 for the Cinema mode.


Kind of interesting that for general TV use, auto (General) is selected by the TV with a neutral color temperature set as standard.

Kind of interesting that for movies, auto (Cinema) is selected by the TV with a Warm color temperature set as standard. Warm-1 for Cinema-1, and Warm-2 for Cinema-2.


My comments regarding "factory calibration" is related to what does the "professional" calibrator base his calibration on? Cinema mode with Warm-2? Standard mode (custom subset for Cnet) with Warm-2 (factory set to neutral)? It is pretty obvious that something does not match up in Color temperature with the Sony factory settings.

LED backlight brightness settings are at one extreme end of the scale (low), and you prefer the settings at the other extreme end (Maximum). Factory settings are in between the two settings (they vary by scene mode selected).

Cnet calibration settings for the Sony 55NX720. Backlight set to 1, and color temperature warm-2 was the calibration baseline.

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ture-settings/
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post #304 of 310 Old 07-03-2014, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
Per Sony, here is a description of what a calibrated TV should look like as far as white is concerned.


Wha? That's not a description of "how a calibrated TV should look." It simply tells you what all the picture settings control.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
So does the Cnet calibration retain the Sony Warm-2 as a reddish tint, or do they calibrate the reddish tint out to be neutral?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
My comments regarding "factory calibration" is related to what does the "professional" calibrator base his calibration on? Cinema mode with Warm-2? Standard mode (custom subset for Cnet) with Warm-2 (factory set to neutral)?
They attempt a neutral calibration: that is "neutral" in the sense of introducing the least distortion to the source - one accurate to the type of industry standards used to create the source material. Usually this involves choosing a "Custom" or "User" mode on the display, in which to create the most accurate picture settings. (That's generally what those are there for).

This is standard stuff, and all the info is easily found on the CNET site, so why don't you read it?

http://www.cnet.com/how-we-test-tvs/#TVcalibration

Some relevant info from that link:

CNET uses professional equipment to:
  • Calibrate grayscale using 2-point and/or multipoint system, if available. We attempt to adjust all levels of gray, in 5 percent increments using window patterns, to come as close as possible to D65 (x=0.3127, y=0.329) while maintaining 2.2 gamma.
  • Calibrate color management system, if available. We attempt to achieve proper absolute luminance for primary colors and proper hue for secondary colors, as dictated by CalMAN and the Rec709 HD color standard. CMS adjustments are made using 75 percent luminance window patterns. If CMS can't improve on default settings or introduces artifacts, we disable it.


Do you understand any of that, or why calibrations are performed? Your post suggests you haven't any idea.
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post #305 of 310 Old 07-04-2014, 02:49 AM
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Never could understand folks that dig a hole for themselves and when they are in it pretty deep with no way out they just keep on digging deeper.!

Ofc my momma always said (she was from the south ) Stupid is as stupid does !

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post #306 of 310 Old 07-04-2014, 02:56 AM
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R Harkness wrote ,

They attempt a neutral calibration: that is "neutral" in the sense of introducing the least distortion to the source - one accurate to the type of industry standards used to create the source material. Usually this involves choosing a "Custom" or "User" mode on the display, in which to create the most accurate picture settings. (That's generally what those are there for).

Re tubetwister

makes sense to me +1

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post #307 of 310 Old 07-04-2014, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
If you compare the settings that you recommend for a Sony TV, you would notice that your TV is probably calibrated wrong.

Let's take the common Sony calibrations at Cnet (any model).

In general, the Cnet calibrated backlight is set to 1 for a Sony, yet you prefer the backlight being set at MAX. A bit different don't you think?

In general the color temperature used in a Cnet Sony TV calibration is set to Warm-2, and you seem to prefer the color temperature being set to neutral. A bit different don't you think?

Per Sony, here is a description of what a calibrated TV should look like as far as white is concerned.

Color Temperature
Adjusts the whiteness of the picture.

Cool
Gives white colors a bluish tint.

Neutral
Gives white colors a neutral tint.

Warm 1/Warm 2
Gives white colors a reddish tint. “Warm 2” gives a redder tint than “Warm 1.”

http://docs.esupport.sony.com/imanua...e_2b15_uc.html


So does the Cnet calibration retain the Sony Warm-2 as a reddish tint, or do they calibrate the reddish tint out to be neutral?


In the Sony 55NX720, the auto (general) mode uses the neutral color temperature. Yes whites are white. Same color temperature that you prefer with your "calibration".

In the Sony 55NX720, the auto (cinema) uses a Warm temperature setting. Warm-1 for Cinema-1, and Warm-2 for Cinema-2. Yes the whites are a bit reddish in the Cinema modes. I prefer Warm-1 for the Cinema mode.


Kind of interesting that for general TV use, auto (General) is selected by the TV with a neutral color temperature set as standard.

Kind of interesting that for movies, auto (Cinema) is selected by the TV with a Warm color temperature set as standard. Warm-1 for Cinema-1, and Warm-2 for Cinema-2.


My comments regarding "factory calibration" is related to what does the "professional" calibrator base his calibration on? Cinema mode with Warm-2? Standard mode (custom subset for Cnet) with Warm-2 (factory set to neutral)? It is pretty obvious that something does not match up in Color temperature with the Sony factory settings.

LED backlight brightness settings are at one extreme end of the scale (low), and you prefer the settings at the other extreme end (Maximum). Factory settings are in between the two settings (they vary by scene mode selected).

Cnet calibration settings for the Sony 55NX720. Backlight set to 1, and color temperature warm-2 was the calibration baseline.

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ture-settings/
There is no such thing as "factory calibration" with TVs. Just factory settings, some of which come closer to a calibrated ideal than others. Calibration produces a very specific, defined end result, based on well-understood science. The stuff you are discussing is not calibration because there is no measurement involved, just guesswork with someone else's settings as a starting point.
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post #308 of 310 Old 07-04-2014, 06:36 AM
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Just a general statement directed no one in particular

I don't think I said I was calibrating sets rather than just recommending adjustments I have found to work well ?
If I did mention the phrase DIY calibration without instrument measurements or something like that I think it was
obvious what the intent was none the less .
In fact I would encourage those with the means to afford a professional calibration to do just that

I've been repairing TV's and other electronics as a hobby off and on for over 40 yrs and can diagnose and repair some board level components in TV's and other electronics I also hold a general class FCC station licence
Spent some time employed doing TV bench work and service calls part time in high school and college .
Studied electronics for 3 yrs in high school back then when they still taught useful things .
TV's still had vacuum tubes then and were generally fiddly as were the broadcast signals .
NTSC meant Never The Same Color Twice back then ☺
Have been doing computers also since the early 80's .
Career was in business for 35 yrs though working at multinational OEM.actually 3 of them


Professional calibrations are not altogether unlike some of the stuff we did back then such as screen drive ,peaking ,grey scale,convergence , adjustments ,purity and focus ,degauss etc. I think professional calibration is interesting myself .

I'm not a trained calibrator by any stretch of the imagination I never claim that and I would never discourage retaining one .

Otoh hand there are a lot of expert enthusiasts here with measuring equipment and some without and some expertise that probably get decent results . but these expert enthusiasts are not the newbie member or occasional poster without the means to employ a professional calibrator...two different things altogether .

I use and recommend the AVS HD.709 files on my own DIY adjustments without instrument measurements but that is hardly a professional calibration.

I mention these things because YOU KNOW WHO and I aren't speaking anymore and will I not reply to him despite what he thinks

I just wanted to clarify things a bit. ☺

Best regards

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post #309 of 310 Old 07-04-2014, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Just a general statement directed no one in particular

I don't think I said I was calibrating sets rather than just recommending adjustments I have found to work well ?
If I did mention the phrase DIY calibration without instrument measurements or something like that I think it was
obvious what the intent was none the less .

I'm not a trained calibrator by any stretch of the imagination I never claim that and I would never discourage retaining one .
in fact I would encourage those with the means to afford a professional calibration to do just that.

I use and recommend the AVS HD.709 files on my own DIY adjustments without instrument measurements but that is hardly a professional calibration.

I mention these things because YOU KNOW WHO and I aren't speaking anymore and will not reply to him despite what he thinks
I just want to clarify things a bit. ☺

Best regards
I also use and recommend AVS HD709 for optimizing a TVs picture. Without instrumentation, it can still help with crucial adjustments that make a TV's picture look great! In fact, properly done it represents a partial calibration. I even think it's possible to "eyeball" a 2-point color balance to get a better result than a TVs defaults.

As for what instrumentation can do... check out what a proper calibration did for my F8500:



Calibrated using CalMAN by SpectraCal
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post #310 of 310 Old 07-04-2014, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I also use and recommend AVS HD709 for optimizing a TVs picture. Without instrumentation, it can still help with crucial adjustments that make a TV's picture look great! In fact, properly done it represents a partial calibration. I even think it's possible to "eyeball" a 2-point color balance to get a better result than a TVs defaults.

As for what instrumentation can do... check out what a proper calibration did for my F8500:


Calibrated using CalMAN by SpectraCal

Yousa maybe I better hire someone to come and look after my 60f5300 that's a big difference !
bet you are enjoying that set now !

Watched Crimson tide last night Netflix super HD but on the Sony
lights off no ambient backlight this time and turned down the brightness by 5 pts it was pretty decent not plasma decent but decent you couldn't hardly see the black bars unless you looked hard or it was a real bright scene .


Thanks mark the AVS HD.709 and reading posts here made a big difference in all my sets .

The latest Sony I bought in Mar. would have went back to the store if left to it's own devices but once I got to where it looks well after a lot of trial and error it's very good as LCD's go surprisingly so . A dramatic improvement from out of the box .I was amazed at the final result and difference that is one thing that reinforced my belief in calibration .
ofc I've always respected calibration science anyway. This is a pretty cool forum lots for me and a lot of folks to learn here and pretty interesting as well . .

Thinking about tapping a retirement fund for an f8500 those things are stonking good. problem is I watch the Sony more than my 60F5300 .not that I like it better it's just where I spend time in the day and it's next to the PC .



We know when you review a set now you have a serious benchmark there that's cool .

enjoy the holiday .

best regards .

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