Masking Your Edgelit LCD TV for Better Blacks - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Movies always look better in the dark even more so with good black levels (with the exception of ambient lighting usually behind the set It can often enhance contrast perception

I watch both ways depending on the content .





The LCD tv in my bedroom have the same issues and this solution really makes a big difference. I will later try something more appealing but for now this is better than nothing.




Any ideas?

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post #182 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
The LCD tv in my bedroom have the same issues and this solution really makes a big difference. I will later try something more appealing but for now this is better than nothing.




Any ideas?
Not me the craft board like MarK used is the best thing I could think of even though he thought of it .

ofc you could always get another
Panny 65ZT60 for the bedroom if you could find one for less than a Kings ransom or a Sony W600/800/850B
those have decent blacks as LCD go without having to get an 900B/950B - XBR .

Turning the brightness down on an LCD at night can help, sometimes only 2 or 3 points can make a significant difference at night . I have 2 Cinema(modified settings ) on my Sony with the only difference being 55-57 brightness daytime and 53 at night between the two both are however different from the factory default cinema settings in several other aspects

When I start tapping another retirement fund as it matures soon I might look at OLED but I'm good for now .

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post #183 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Shape View Post
This is not unlike what theaters do with masking the left and right sides of a screen. Very creative!
Theater masking does not involve flipping a black broad over.

I think i will experiment with a powered 12 volt trigger masking system for 23 plus inch LCD/LED/OLED/Plasma TV's for people who hate black bars. That has got to be a huge market as that is all i ever read about. The action is between the black bars, why stare at black(gray) bars?
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post #184 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
If you think it is typical to disable all of the options in this TV, then why should anyone buy a set like this in the first place? Just buy a $600 TV that has no advanced technology since you guys seem to prefer to disable everything that can be disabled, calibrate the TV, and then walk away saying everything is perfect.

I don't like making a new TV look like the picture you would get a 1980's CRT TV set. That's what I get with the Cnet settings in a dark room. For daytime viewing, forget about it.


It is much simpler to use the factory setting, and let the TV adjust itself for use in a dark room. Like I said previously, white balance was barely touched with that Cnet calibration. If my gray scale was off I would do a touch up, but it is fine as is, dark room or bright room.

Note that I have experimented with each option, so I pretty much know what options enhance the viewing experience.

So calibrated does not mean calibrated. It requires judgment rather than measurements. How bright white is is relative to room brightness rather than to measured display brightness. It is a judgment call rather than a measurement.

I prefer to not have to adjust anything for use in different ambient room light conditions. Like I said, let the ambient light sensor adjust everything for a dark room (at night in my case).

Just as a note, the scene select modes vary each of the 24 line items in different ways depending on content. The ambient light sensor is not even part of scene select.
On my Sony or Toshiba *I prefer * a modified Cinema /Movie setting as starting place end result being a modified Cinema setting in Sonys case . Yes the light sensor is in the ECO menu and should be turned off by most accounts and certainly is my preference on the 5 sets here .
Good thing about the Cinema setting on Sonys is it turns off all the extra crap for you ☺☺☺

You may not be aware of it but many of the the $600 TV's often Used the very same often 10 bit panel as a much more expensive Sony or even a less expensive Element or Seiki ,Insignia or Toshiba that's especially true with Samsung panels that Sony (and everybody else used a lot ) for many years . It's a little different now with LGD and others selling low spec panels to anyone that will buy one .


Samsung was pretty promiscuous with their panels and spread the love around a lot and some of those sets once calibrated might just surprise you.
lots of times a less expensive Toshiba could match some of the Sonys once set up right I wouldn't go so far as to say an Insignia or Dynex could though regardless of the panel .
I would agree right now most of the Sony e XBRs are usually noticeably better than a lot of other sets so are the W600/800/850 B's but they come at a premium like Sammies .

Although I have a 2011 40" Dynex with a 1080p Samsung 10bit SPVA panel in it being used as a second screen PC monitor in the studio running off a discrete PC HD video card that panel works much (lots better ) doing that than it ever did as a TV . Sony and Toshiba both used the exact same panel those years .



Sony XBR US. are using high spec LGD 4K IPS panels mostly with the lesser sets using AUO AMVA panels now. (decent though) and *some Samsung VA panels in the Euro/Mid East / Asia spec Bravia sets AFAIK .


As a rule I prefer Sonys or Toshiba LCD for my LCD sets and usually buy one or the other depending on the panel inside , what I think it looks like in the store and the Video chip (s) on the mainboard along with some other things (including the price ) but not necessarily useless features that make the picture worse when they are enabled although many are there because features sell whether they do anything useful or not and are often included in decent video processing engines . More and more decent sets are coming out though . Used to be Only Sony or Toshiba was any good for the most part in the CRT days.


Many of us vary the brightness occasionally from day/night thats all one should need to do usually if everyting else is right but preferences can and do vary some folks like oversaturated colors and overly bright cool temp whites pushing blue YMMV .



What's important is what works* for you on your set in your room that's fine * but many would take exception to some of your arguments and blanket statements that are incorrect in many instances with good reasons .
just saying .
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post #185 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Are they 6500K?

BTW, I believe it was a velvet like material that Bob Busch and I used in the light box on my Mits 73 years ago and it worked very well.
Contrary to popular wisdom on *my sets in my rooms * I prefer a ~5000 K ambient back light although the difference is not great IMO in *my application and wall color* ( light creamy beige color ) ofc I wouldn't pretend to understand the science of human light perception that's above my pay grade I can only mention what I tried here and what I like.
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post #186 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
The one exception being the Sony in Cinema mode that only required screwing up the contrast a lot (picture ) and some addt'l brightness and setting color temp to neutral , + adjusting the gamma Oh and ofc turning off all the ECO/power saving modes and brightness sensor + automatic stuff (motion stuff ,contrast and color enhancers ,clear white and noise reduction etc ) and setting 1:1 pixel mapping ofc. oh and a firmware update before it was right .
These are basically the same settings I arrived at after using Spears & Munsil's blu-ray on my Sony KDL-46HX701
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post #187 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post
Correct, many Vizio have those picture modes but he is claiming something different. His TV listens to the Metadata fairy and chooses the scene mode for him.

Just because you don't understand how something works does not mean that you need to get your panties in a bunch. Refer to the included partial list of ATSC Genre Codes.

Here are two screen shots for examples. Scene mode was set to AUTO, meaning TV selects the scene mode based on content.

There is some type of data stream (be it meta data, program data, or magic data) that tells the TV what scene mode to select without end user intervention.



Standard TV program. The Auto Scene mode selected the General scene mode






Movie. The Auto Scene mode selected the Cinema scene mode.







ATSC Genre Codes - Partial List


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post #188 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
On my Sony or Toshiba *I prefer * a modified Cinema /Movie setting as starting place end result being a modified Cinema setting in Sonys case . Yes the light sensor is in the ECO menu and should be turned off by most accounts and certainly is my preference on the 5 sets here .
Good thing about the Cinema setting on Sonys is it turns off all the extra crap for you ☺☺☺

Pretty much my disagreement with that Cnet calibration of the 55NS720 is based of the calibrator being unfamiliar with the TV, and at the start he picked the incorrect scene mode to analyse and adjust the factory based calibration.

If he had chosen the Cinema mode, the only items that he would have changed are backlight, picture, sharpness, and white balance. Instead of doing that he butchered the General scene mode. I disagree with those Cnet backlight and picture settings even for use in a darker room.

I also use power saving (low) and use the Light Sensor (optimize brightness according to ambient light). After a proper brighter room calibration, the light sensor will turn down the brightness for use in a darker room.

If you calibrate for a dark room and then activate the light sensor, the light sensor will not work properly.
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post #189 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
I also use power saving (low) and use the Light Sensor (optimize brightness according to ambient light). After a proper brighter room calibration, the light sensor will turn down the brightness for use in a darker room.

If you calibrate for a dark room and then activate the light sensor, the light sensor will not work properly.
Ewww power saving and light sensor on? I'm sensitive to the changes of brightness and contrast that the light sensor do ....... Why? Because the light sensor goes crazy between the changes of bright and dark movie scene ,also the contrast will be limited with energy saving on..

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post #190 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 06:10 PM
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_Palmer_wrote ,

Pretty much my disagreement with that Cnet calibration of the 55NS720 is based of the calibrator being unfamiliar with the TV, and at the start he picked the incorrect scene mode to analyse and adjust the factory based calibration.

If he had chosen the Cinema mode, the only items that he would have changed are backlight, picture, sharpness, and white balance. Instead of doing that he butchered the General scene mode. I disagree with those Cnet backlight and picture settings even for use in a darker room.


Re /Tubetwister

I Agree fair enough Cinema mode doesn't usually require a lot of changes Sony seems to do a good job with that even most of the published reviews recommend that for calibration . I don't use Cnet settings but only look at them when I first get a set and try them . I have better luck with AVS HD .709 here and a little further adj. to my preferences and room
light . Sounds like you Have your Sony set the way you like it nothing wrong with that .
Sony has a way cool color saturation test that is downloadable it works good!
http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/suppor...l?info_id=1369

OTOH I don't have measuring equipment and training either. I can see where a pro calibration could be useful on a lot of sets though most don't have a pre set as good as Sony's Cinema modes . In my case I'm fine (or think I am ☺) but it took some trial and error to be sure .

I wouldn't discourage anyone that wanted to get a pro calibration though and not being an expert I'm not qualified to advise others not to get one but can just say what works (or not ) for me ofc some sets really need them .

I believe If this Sony had CMS or in any event it surely would have saved me a lot of avregation early on with a pro calibration and believe me I would have been happy to pay someone in this case that came up with the same or maybe better results than I did after a lot of work they probably could have done it in a couple of hours maybe less .
This was THE most aggravating set of mine out of 5 to get right even though it has no CMS or maybe because of that .


I think I tend to like my pictures brighter than ~ 121 fL that many published reviewers target especially in daylight
Not saying they are wrong I'm not a trained calibrator but I'm good the way I do it after some (lots of ) trial and error learning what works here for me so far .

OTOH without measuring tools that may be where I'm at or close for all I know My brightness setting usually end up close to the published reviewers .

I like to keep black levels good and avoid oversaturation and blooming while maintaining dark/black details and avoid crushing blacks yet maintain enough color saturation the Sony Colortest file nails it those things are important to me .

I don't think I've ever seen a set out of the box that didn't need something most people just watch presets without
tweaking them ........I couldn't do that if left only to those I would have ~ 4 sets here that would have probably went back
including the Sony only one that would have stayed would have been the Toshiba with out of box pre sets
ofc Cnet gave that one an editors choice .


In fact *this Sony* almost went back until I got it right because I was unaware you could modify and retain settings in Cinema mode until I tried it one day my Toshiba won't do that but it's out of box picture was much better and still holds it's own with the Sony just fine which is to say it has a very good picture or more accurately now the Sony does ☺

I got spoiled for picture quality and accurate color with my Sammie Plasma and the Toshiba LCD (at least in my frame of reference ) not Pannie VT/VZ PDP or Sony XBR 9XXX or OLED picture quality but pretty good none the less .


Re setting the Gamma and taking the other settings off Cinema defaults and changing color temp to neutral is the only reason the Sony is still here *this set * would not get to my liking at all in other than Cinema modes or display accurate colors unless in tweaked Cinema mode /neut color temp now it's fine ☺.
(stupid reviewers said to use general/scene/standard mode warm color temp mode on this set , only one review got it right about using cinema and neut color ) ofc after I figured it out after much trial and error also
General /standard /warm might be fine for other Sonys but not this one otherwise it pushes red and skewes the other colors and without CMS to compensate it almost went back it's all good now though .

With all the effort it took to get this one decent and looking like a Sony should I can believe in the merits of using a professional calibrator .
Cnet did not review this Sony. they might have done fine with it if they reviewed it they did fine with 2 of my other sets .


Palmer wrote ,
I also use power saving (low) and use the Light Sensor (optimize brightness according to ambient light). After a proper brighter room calibration, the light sensor will turn down the brightness for use in a darker room.
If you calibrate for a dark room and then activate the light sensor, the light sensor will not work properly.[/quote]

re /tubetwister ,

That's reasonable. FWIW I don't use light sensors on any of my sets out of preference not what I read anywhere
although Low on the Sony didn't seem to be detrimental like it can be on some of my other sets in fact some are just on/off .

I watch as much in daylight as not and only change the brightness 3-4 pts at night to slightly enhance black levels on the Sony . The Sammie PDP has good blacks as is so I usually leave it alone .

Adjusting the gamma off the pre set (up ) improved detail dramatically on my Sony as it turns out a reviewers (not Cnet ) measured calibration ended up with the same gamma setting I found after some trial and error .


I liked that Genre Code chart you posted above that's very interesting I will have to read up on that and maybe learn something .

I would imagine Sony probably has their own algorithms and ignores that in most modes I could be wrong
maybe that's what Auto mode is doing though ? I never use it occasionally I will watch sports in a tweaked Game mode
mostly because it's a little brighter and turns off all the other crap like cinema mode does for you . YMMV.

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post #191 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
Just because you don't understand how something works does not mean that you need to get your panties in a bunch. Refer to the included partial list of ATSC Genre Codes.

Here are two screen shots for examples. Scene mode was set to AUTO, meaning TV selects the scene mode based on content.

There is some type of data stream (be it meta data, program data, or magic data) that tells the TV what scene mode to select without end user intervention.



Standard TV program. The Auto Scene mode selected the General scene mode






Movie. The Auto Scene mode selected the Cinema scene mode.




Then the so-called metadata are wrong. Both movies were filmed for cinema at 24fps. So why one is "general" and the other "cinema". If anything, both of them should be "cinema".

PS: that list is only for scheduling classification to ease the search function for show guides. So IF the Sony is reading that FLAG (and NOT metadata), the chance for the scene modes being wrong is too high.
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post #192 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
Ewww power saving and light sensor on? I'm sensitive to the changes of brightness and contrast that the light sensor do ....... Why? Because the light sensor goes crazy between the changes of bright and dark movie scene ,also the contrast will be limited with energy saving on..
Me also I leave mine off and hate it when the ABL kicks in occasionally with the Plasma

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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Then the so-called metadata are wrong. Both movies were filmed for cinema at 24fps. So why one is "general" and the other "cinema". If anything, both of them should be "cinema".

PS: that list is only for scheduling classification to ease the search function for show guides. So IF the Sony is reading that FLAG (and NOT metadata), the chance for the scene modes being wrong is too high.
Now I understand what he meant by metadata. He was referring to OTA signals. That is indeed pretty cool that his TV switch picture mode according to signal flag. But then again, I have yet to see a preset picture mode that looked good. They were all pretty much useless across all brands. But it has been a while since I've used any preset mode so the technology might have gotten better.
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post #194 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 08:35 PM
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Apostate wrote Now I understand what he meant by metadata. He was referring to OTA signals. That is indeed pretty cool that his TV switch picture mode according to signal flag. But then again, I have yet to see a preset picture mode that looked good. They were all pretty much useless across all brands.


re /tube twister
I wonder if Sony reads that maybe in auto? I don't know I don't use auto but they probably read motion and chroma + brightness frame rate and contrast info instead or maybe both ? I'm no expert by any means I don't know for sure . That in itself would be an interesting thread what TV's use or don't use of the broadcast and which TV's use what and when .

I'm going to see what Google says I'm curious . It does make some sense that that data would relate to automated TV guides and programming though .

Does bit shaped and mpeg compressed CATV/SAT re transmission have that data ? I watch very little OTA the programming is as bad or worse than SAT /CATV plus I have over 200 SAT channels mostly crap but better odds of finding something watchable than OTA not to mention OTA news is not at all what it used to be now they are just tools not real news organisations anymore PBS is OK but they have that on ROKU and Amazon prime and on line .

Only thing most OTA is good for is Sports , usually OTA sports look better than local CATV/SAT channels otherwise you can keep it .

ofc that can be said for a lot of the CATV/SAT channels also. Good to have Netflix and Amazon Prime or owning a TV
would be less enjoyable plus I don't do 480i very often except for some old shows on HULU now and then mostly HD sometimes an upscaled DVD or an .ISO off the hdds and BD ofc .

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post #195 of 310 Old 06-27-2014, 09:51 PM
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Being both retired and curious of technology and otherwise bored with nothing better to do at the moment

I did some reading on ATSC broadcast metadata or more specifically this :

Quote:
The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) is the MPEG and privately defined program-specific information originally defined by General Instrument for the DigiCipher 2 system and later extended for the ATSC digital television system for carrying metadata about each channel in the broadcast MPEG transport stream of a television station and for publishing information about television programs so that viewers can select what to watch by title and description.

PSIP defines virtual channels and content ratings, as well as electronic program guides with titles and (optionally) descriptions to be decoded and displayed by the ATSC tuner.
PSIP can also send:
the exact time referenced to UTC and GPS time;
the short name, which some stations use to publish their callsign. A maximum of seven characters can be used in a short name.
PSIP is defined in ATSC standard A/65, the most recent revision of which is A/65:2013,
published in 2013. A/69 is a recommended practice for implementing PSIP in a television station.
PSIP also supersedes the A/55 and A/56 protocol methods of delivering program guide information (which the ATSC has deleted). TV Guide On Screen is a different, proprietary system provided by datacasting on a single station, while PSIP is required, at least in the United States, to be sent by every digital television station.
PSIP information may be passed through the airchain using proprietary protocols or through use of the XML-based Programming Metadata Communication Protocol (PMCP, or ATSC A/76) facility metadata scheme.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...What_PSIP_does

From what I can read of this this (Program and System Information Protocol ) does not always work well on CATV or probably satellite it is only program information not TV picture setting information at all absolutely no mention of this in any references or patents it does contain genre info though like music metadata though.
I can't find a Sony use patent for that there are only an LG patent for use in a channel guide


ofc the brightness and maybe a contrast and chroma sensor could be enabled in Auto mode .
it could be reading a metadata flag if it finds one present or otherwise guessing from an embedded algorithm ?


[B]Auto doesn't do anything on* my set* (2013 Sony ) but default to Energy Star settings thats why it is there so they can be energy star certified thats all it does period !


OTOH in all fairness ON J Palmers ~2012 Sony it is a little different in that the Auto setting does this :
Auto
Automatically optimizes picture and sound quality according to the input source

https://docs.sony.com/release/KDL-NX720_imanual_EN.pdf

So it could be reading a metadata flag of some sort and setting some things .

.In the recording studio here we use meta data only for content info (thats all it is here but it does specify genre ) probably just like the TV stuff *some media browsers* support meta data also. TBH that's what got me curious here .


Without some documentation at this point I would have to believe David Susilo
First off what he said makes perfect sense and he is certified in a few related areas so he knows a lot more than I or many of us here do. So at this point I'm concluding it's at best reading a flag and calling up an embedded algorithm .
nothing wrong with that and it be useful if you like that sort of thing.


These are David Susilo certs from his sig
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related stuff to read if you are bored ☺
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/pat...-20140325.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...What_PSIP_does

http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/pat...-20140325.html

http://www.etherguidesystems.com/Systems/Default.aspx

http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/pat...-20140325.html

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post #196 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 02:18 AM
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Then the so-called metadata are wrong. Both movies were filmed for cinema at 24fps. So why one is "general" and the other "cinema". If anything, both of them should be "cinema".

PS: that list is only for scheduling classification to ease the search function for show guides. So IF the Sony is reading that FLAG (and NOT metadata), the chance for the scene modes being wrong is too high.


Your "opinions" are interesting, but hardly accurate. The Virginian was a long running TV series made in the 1960s, and was not a TV movie nor was it a cinema release. The Virginian was never produced to be viewed in a cinema setting. The second "sample" was taken from an off air "movie" channel.

Also, the program data is not called a flag in ATSC documentation.

However, I do assume that the Sony is reading program guide information in some form (be it called metadata, program data, or magic data). As an additional informational note this particular Sony can use ROVI (or not).

One further note. Old TV shows look better in the general scene mode due to the multitude of non calibration related settings (and calibration related) that are used in the general scene mode as compared with the Cinema scene mode (more or less the cinema calibrated mode). The list of options that are activated in the general scene mode are too long to list, and you would not like any of them anyway because they mess up your calibration method.

Speaking of that Cnet calibration for the Sony 55NX720, why that calibrator hacked the general scene mode is beyond me. Every other calibration of a Sony on Cnet used the Cinema scene mode. The Cinema scene mode (Cinema 1) as is pretty much conforms to the Cinema reference standard that you use for your calibrations. By that I mean nearly all of the optional video "enhancements" are not used in the Cinema mode. Color temperature settings are different in different scene modes, and that is an example of a calibration related setting that varies based on the use of different scene modes.
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post #197 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 02:45 AM
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Ewww power saving and light sensor on? I'm sensitive to the changes of brightness and contrast that the light sensor do ....... Why? Because the light sensor goes crazy between the changes of bright and dark movie scene ,also the contrast will be limited with energy saving on..

What do expect from a plasma that can not be used in a bright room?

I reviewed the Sony light sensor and ECO modes that are available again, and the differences are pretty minor with changes in ambient light. I turned on the test pattern, viewed in a dark room at night, and then turned a light on and off. Subtle changes in screen brightness / contrast were noted, but nothing major.

Changes from a dark movie scene to a bright movie scene have nothing to do with the ambient light sensor.

My ECO mode setting remains at low, but the next step down (OFF) was slightly brighter. Then again the ECO mode only controls the screen backlight, so that is what one would expect.
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Some movie's do aspect ratio switching, so they are not fit for masking black bars. A few i know of: TRON: Legacy (2010), The Dark Knight (2008) and the aspect ratio switching champ The Dark Knight Rises (2012).
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The word "calibration" is getting tossed around in this thread without any regard for its true meaning.

The goal of calibration is simple—in your home, when your TV/projector is calibrated, you come as close to seeing what the director saw when they made decisions about color grading during production. Calibration is not some grab-bag of settings that you tweak to your liking. There's no law that says you have to like calibration. Consider the analogy to music—you are free to set EQ any way you want, but only flat in-room response will bring you close to what the musician and sound engineer intended. A lot of listeners say "great, but I like the sound of Beats headphones."

One worthy goal shared by home theater aficionados is to have both a calibrated picture and calibrated sound. A good movie theater is going to have exactly that; therefore, if you want the theater experience at home, calibrated is where its at.

Some of the statements made about pro calibration—in this thread—amount to slander. If I see it, I'm reporting it.

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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post


Without some documentation at this point I would have to believe David Susilo
First off what he said makes perfect sense and he is certified in a few related areas so he knows a lot more than I or many of us here do. So at this point I'm concluding it's at best reading a flag and calling up an embedded algorithm .
nothing wrong with that and it be useful if you like that sort of thing.


These are David Susilo certs from his sig
ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine

related stuff to read if you are bored ☺


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...What_PSIP_does



David Susilo is not certified in the area that we are discussing.


Metadata is the correct word.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_program_guide

QUOTE:

Standards for delivery of scheduling information to television-based IPGs vary from application to application, and by country. Older television IPGs like Guide Plus+ relied on analog technology (such as the vertical blanking interval of analog television video signals) to distribute listings data to IPG-enabled consumer receiving equipment. In Europe, the European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) published standard ETS 300 707 to standardize the delivery of IPG data over digital television broadcast signals. Listings data for IPGs integrated into digital terrestrial television and radio receivers of the present day is typically sent within each station's MPEG transport stream, or alongside it in a special data stream.

The ATSC standard for digital terrestrial television, for instance, uses tables sent in each station's PSIP. These tables are meant to contain program start times and titles along with additional program descriptive metadata. Current time signals are also included for on-screen display purposes, and they are also used to set timers on recording devices.

Devices embedded within modern digital cable and satellite television receivers, on the other hand, customarily rely upon third-party listings metadata aggregators to provide them with their on-screen listings data. Such companies include Tribune TV Data, Gemstar-TV Guide (now Rovi), FYI Television, Inc. in the United States and Europe, TV Media in the United States and Canada, Broadcasting Dataservices in Europe and Dayscript in Latin America, and What's On India Media Pvt. Ltd in India, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, the Middle East and Asia.
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
I get myself in enough trouble on AVS without going to a new thread to pick a fight with anonymous posters with unknown qualifications and standards.

If your LCD was calibrated by a professional, your definition of a professional is much different than my definition.

Furthermore, I would never let some self proclaimed "professional" go into my TV's service menu. High risk, little reward to allow a person who is unfamiliar with a specific TV to dick with those settings.
You sir, are making yourself look like a complete fool. It is utterly clear you have no idea what you are talking about at all.
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post #202 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
Typical non-answer.

Those automatic scene modes and options for each mode (AKA not global) will change the look of the picture that you made in your calibration routine, rendering your calibration pretty much useless.

White balance from the factory is set perfect even tough it is user adjustable. Same with gamma.
This is hilarious.
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post #203 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 08:28 AM
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You are correct and incorrect at the same time. The descriptor IS metadata, but the descriptor's class grouping (eg: western, advertisement, drama) is considered a flag.
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post #204 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 08:50 AM
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Palmer makes me think of a Dutch proverb
  • Hij heeft de klok wel horen luiden maar weet niet waar de klepel hangt.
    • Literal Translation: "He did hear the sound of the bell, but doesn't know where the clapper hangs."
    • Meaning: "He thinks he knows the subject, but the essence eludes him."
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post #205 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 11:13 AM
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You are correct and incorrect at the same time. The descriptor IS metadata, but the descriptor's class grouping (eg: western, advertisement, drama) is considered a flag.



It is metadata. Metadata is "data about data". You may even read the section in the link below called "Metadata in the broadcast industry".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metadata



When I first bought this TV, Rovi was part of the national off air broadcast stream. When the broadcast stream data method was discontinued by Rovi last year, Rovi removed all their equipment from all of the local off air TV broadcast stations. A lot of consumer equipment was rendered near useless when that off air TV broadcast service stopped.

Find the term flag in the following link. Now how many times does metadata occur in this link? Remember, Rovi metadata can be accessed (or not) in the 55NX720.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovi_Corporation



When are you going to raise the white flag?
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post #206 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 11:26 AM
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You know what? Do whatever you want to do, believe what you want to believe. I'm through explaining this to you.

PS: just because it's in wikipedia, it doesn't make it true.
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post #207 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The word "calibration" is getting tossed around in this thread without any regard for its true meaning.

The goal of calibration is simple—in your home, when your TV/projector is calibrated, you come as close to seeing what the director saw when they made decisions about color grading during production. Calibration is not some grab-bag of settings that you tweak to your liking. There's no law that says you have to like calibration. Consider the analogy to music—you are free to set EQ any way you want, but only flat in-room response will bring you close to what the musician and sound engineer intended. A lot of listeners say "great, but I like the sound of Beats headphones."

One worthy goal shared by home theater aficionados is to have both a calibrated picture and calibrated sound. A good movie theater is going to have exactly that; therefore, if you want the theater experience at home, calibrated is where its at.

Some of the statements made about pro calibration—in this thread—amount to slander. If I see it, I'm reporting it.


Is a TV function like edge enhancement or motionflow or MPEG noise reduction considered to be part of calibration? In other words, do you change those factory applied settings in the scene mode that you are calibrating to the standard? Why do calibrators take those "grab bag of settings" (and many others) and tweak them willy nilly depending of the day in question?
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post #208 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
You know what? Do whatever you want to do, believe what you want to believe. I'm through explaining this to you.

PS: just because it's in wikipedia, it doesn't make it true.

Just because you say something does not mean you are right. Any authoritative source for your claim? Rovi says the same thing on their web site.

I guess we are done here!
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post #209 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 11:57 AM
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For the last time:

FLAG is a switch command (to switch from one mode to another, etc).
METADATA is a datastream that changes as the file progresses.

24p code, for example, is a flag.
Subtitles, for example, is a metadata.
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post #210 of 310 Old 06-28-2014, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
Is a TV function like edge enhancement or motionflow or MPEG noise reduction considered to be part of calibration? In other words, do you change those factory applied settings in the scene mode that you are calibrating to the standard? Why do calibrators take those "grab bag of settings" (and many others) and tweak them willy nilly depending of the day in question?
That is not correct.
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