New Vizio 70" (Full Array) Available now - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 226 Old 07-17-2014, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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New Vizio 70" (Full Array) Available now

First post...hope its not a dupe but wanted to let all know you can finally buy it.. 1,899.00 at the Vizio storefront. Ordered mine today. Hope its as good as the specs look.


m702i-b3
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post #2 of 226 Old 07-17-2014, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rojofro View Post
First post...hope its not a dupe but wanted to let all know you can finally buy it.. 1,899.00 at the Vizio storefront. Ordered mine today. Hope its as good as the specs look.


m702i-b3
How many zones will it have
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post #3 of 226 Old 07-17-2014, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post
How many zones will it have
36...

Which is pretty inadequate for a screen that large in my opinion. On a 70" screen you are looking at a little under 2100 square inches. That means each dimmable zone is a little less than 60 square inches, or roughly the size a macbook air screen.

If all the dimmable zones are of equal size the zones would likely be too large to even dim the black bars when viewing letterbox movies.

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post #4 of 226 Old 07-18-2014, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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...depends on the performance of each zone. In any event, its alot more than other manufacturers at this price point (and in many cases at all points). The proof will be in the pudding - to get it on the wall and see it in person.

In any event I'm excited to see it made it to the US finally!
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post #5 of 226 Old 07-18-2014, 05:30 PM
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If you want to have an idea of the performance of Vizio's 2014 FALD line, specifically models 55" and larger, check out the website for Sound&Vision magazine as they tested the 55" model last month and the 60" this month.
Both got great reviews with excellent video processing, "inky blacks" + great shadow detail, no onscreen clouding, spotlights, blooming, etc, nor corners with brighter edges due to LED edge-lit tech.
With a black level floor of 0.001 ft-L (FALD engaged displaying full screen black image having very small white logo to "fool" FALD otherwise black level drops to 0.000 ft-L, unmesurable, infinite contrast ratio) the performance of these LCD HDTVs is state-of-the-art, as far as i am concerned.
As a matter of fact in the same issue where they tested the Vizio 60" the magazine also reported the test of the new Sharp 2014 model with that "faux" 4K display and the Vizio came up ahead by leaps and bounds, from its excellent black level (0.001 ft-L for Vizio versus 0.010 ft-L for the Sharp) and the fact that the Sharp model displayed plenty of uniformity issues.
I never considered buying a HDTV made by Vizio due to its categorization as "mass market electronic product" sold at Walmart/Costco/Target/etc, but considering these incoming test reporting showing how well built they appear to be and the fact that according to Consumer's Report the defective return ratio of Vizio's HDTVs is about the same as Sony and Samsung at 3%, i have changed my mind and i am waiting eagerly for the upcoming UHDTV P-Series in size 70", although 80" would be even better !
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post #6 of 226 Old 07-18-2014, 09:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
...test reporting showing how well built they appear to be...
You mean how well performing they appear to be. "Well built" implies reliability/durability. We should refrain from that phrase until after a year or so has passed.

I do have to say 0.001 ftL is pretty impressive. That's plasma territory.
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post #7 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 12:04 AM
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Apostate,
As posted, i based my comment on Consumer's Report reliability chart for HDTVs in which Vizio, Sony and Samsung had a defective return ratio of 3% and if i remember correctly only Panasonic and some other manufacturer had a lower return ratio of 2%, which is statistically insignificant insofar as HDTV reliability is concerned.
I believe a few years have passed to ascertain the "reliability/durability" of Vizio's HDTVs and i imagine the same applies to the 2014 line unless Vizio started using LCD panels from completely different sources than used in previous years.
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post #8 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 01:20 AM
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considering these incoming test reporting showing how well built they appear to be and the fact that according to Consumer's Report the defective return ratio of Vizio's HDTVs is about the same as Sony and Samsung at 3%, i have changed my mind and i am waiting eagerly for the upcoming UHDTV P-Series in size 70",[IMG]http://*******/WNKpGN[/IMG] although 80" would be even better !
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post #9 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by diatricfor View Post
considering these incoming test reporting showing how well built they appear to be and the fact that according to Consumer's Report the defective return ratio of Vizio's HDTVs is about the same as Sony and Samsung at 3%, i have changed my mind and i am waiting eagerly for the upcoming UHDTV P-Series in size 70",[IMG]http://*******/WNKpGN[/IMG] although 80" would be even better !
Any idea when the 70" might start showing up at Costco or Sams? I held off last weekend on the current 70" model due to the white spot issue and got a Samsung 65" instead. But now I'm really wanting the 70" screen size
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post #10 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 07:35 AM
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So is Vizio going to be last in actually bringing a 4K panel to market? Seven months after all the hype of CES we're still seeing HD products and zero 4K.

It seems by the time we see a REAL Reference series it may be CES 2015. Talk about turtle rollouts! Supposedly they spent two years working on this and by the time we may see results outside vaporware it may be three years.

Lets hope it equals the hype of CES anyways but another HD TV Debut is not big news really at this point - wake us when they "P" or have a Reference series you can put in a cart. Nothing like boasting of something at a Trade Show that never arrives in the market. Sorry folks, but regardless of how Sound and Vision says when you walk into Walmart or Sams and look at that wall they all look putrid as it's ALL low end crap and never seen anything to make me pull my wallet out to buy.
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post #11 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 11:37 AM
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So far it appears that Vizio has followed its CES 2014 release schedule of its new line of HDTVs and UHDTVs as the company then stated the E-line would be released first, then the M-Line during Summer, then the P-Line in the Fall followed by the R-line before end of the year.
It is now barely halfway through Summer and Vizio is just releasing its M-line in sizes 55", 60" and 70" following the introduction of the E-line afaik, and considering how many different LCD manufacturers are now offering UHD panels in many sizes (especially larger sizes) i don't see why Vizio "can't deliver the goods" of the R-line by the end of the year, which essentially consists of only one model in 65" size (stupidly !) as i think that 120" P-Series "humongousity" is more a proof-of-concept product than anything else, that Vizio wants to show it can compete with the likes of Samsung/LG/Sharp/Sony in releasing UHDTVs in sizes bigger than 90"; Good luck trying to move (very carefully) these panels at home through hallways, stairs, doors, etc for installation, all at a cost upwards of $50,000.00.
As for making buying decisions based on what LCD models look like as displayed at Walmart, Costco, Sam's Club, etc, we all know it is a moot point starting with what display mode they are using ("movie", "standard", "b/w", "bright", etc) continuing with selected color/brightness/contrast/sharpness used and ending with the huge amount of fluorescent lights overhead and all over the stores.
Personally i find that HDTVs and UHDTVs test reports done by Sound & Vision magazine to be some of the most thorough in the business (can't say the same about their testing procedure for other A/V gear), they are honest enough to put in print test reports of products that turn out to be poorly built or designed (even though they might still get 4 stars out of 5 !)and when it comes to contrast ratios the magazine does a true job by testing maximum onscreen brightness and minimum black floor level achievable after calibration, and that is why you are never going to see contrast ratios of 1.000.000.00:1" or some other crazy claim like that.
I have been in this "business" of buying A/G gear for 40 years now (hobby? illness?) and one thing i learned is to be patient (very) with new equipment introduction and product reliability; I am keeping my eyes on that 70" P-Series UHDTV but i wouldn't purchase one until i read reliable test reports and until the production line has had time to iron out any "wrinkles", which means about four months wait after release of model to consider its purchase, at which point i would buy it locally due to the technology, size and fragility involved and make sure there is full returns/no question asked policy, just in case of problems.
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post #12 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 03:08 PM
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i completely agree MCaugusto, there are so many choices right now. a lot of people don't see vizio as a quality set but so far it looks like the quality is about the same with the other major sets as well. makes you wonder what are you getting for paying a premium. i am waiting for thorough reviews of them all and if it seems the reference series is going to be produced that would be the one to get. i just hope they possible surprise us and offer it in more sizes at least and an 80' in the p series would be nice as well.
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post #13 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 04:54 PM
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How do we think these are going to stack up against the Sony 70W850B? I know the previous 70" Vizio models reviewed pretty well (surprisingly well, to me).
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post #14 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 06:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post
As posted, i based my comment on Consumer's Report reliability chart for HDTVs in which Vizio, Sony and Samsung had a defective return ratio of 3%...
Is "defective return ratio" a measure of initial quality or long-term reliability? I am thinking initial quality since one usually cannot return a TV after 30 days (usually, right?). If it's a measure of initial quality then wouldn't it be reasonable to say we still don't know the long-term reliability, let's say, after a year or two?
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post #15 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kong View Post
How do we think these are going to stack up against the Sony 70W850B? I know the previous 70" Vizio models reviewed pretty well (surprisingly well, to me).
Yeah, that's my dilemma. I like the Sony KDL-70W830B at Costco for $1,999, even though it is edge lit. Not sure if I should just get the Sony, or wait for the new 70" Vizio (which is $1,899 MSRP, not sure what it'l be at Costco).
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post #16 of 226 Old 07-19-2014, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apostate View Post
Is "defective return ratio" a measure of initial quality or long-term reliability? I am thinking initial quality since one usually cannot return a TV after 30 days (usually, right?). If it's a measure of initial quality then wouldn't it be reasonable to say we still don't know the long-term reliability, let's say, after a year or two?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, but Consumer's Report gets reports from thousands of owners continuously, on an ongoing basis over the years, and that's why the magazine can give very factual reliability rates to the brands they review.
I wish the magazine was more revealing on those charts and show some info on the defects : panel related, video processor related, HDMI input board problems, etc, but at least we can get a broad overview.
Now, of course the reliability of any brand of A/V gear equipment can change year to year for the better or for the worse and i imagine all it takes are minor changes/additions to the original specs.
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post #17 of 226 Old 07-20-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jfischer View Post
Yeah, that's my dilemma. I like the Sony KDL-70W830B at Costco for $1,999, even though it is edge lit. Not sure if I should just get the Sony, or wait for the new 70" Vizio (which is $1,899 MSRP, not sure what it'l be at Costco).
Well crap, now the Sony is $2,199 at Costco. Guess the bigger sale ended yesterday...
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post #18 of 226 Old 07-21-2014, 12:43 PM
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Watching in Sarasota FL

The NEW 65' inch Full Arrays are available at the Costco inSarasota... I asked the costco guy to look to see and No 70 inch TV's for the next week...

But It looks like Vizio is making progress... I would think in 3 to 4 weeks we will have the 70's IN...
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post #19 of 226 Old 07-24-2014, 05:04 AM
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Hearing Scott talk about the M70 on TWIT...I shall wait patiently for them to show up at Costco or Sams and pull the trigger then. It seems the way they priced the 60m3 we should see about a Ben Franklin discount.

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post #20 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TahoeDust View Post
36...
Which is pretty inadequate for a screen that large in my opinion.
That is a fact, more or less they put enough zones in to create a play on words, another edge lit TV produced by the manufacturers to bluff the general population into thinking they have a FALD unit . With this said I am sure the unit is worth the asking price, but another example of you get what you pay for.

All manufacturers are getting guilty of this play on words, making people think they are getting one thing when it is actually another, its a drag
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post #21 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 07:29 AM
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Hey Chris I saw the vizios to my eyes there full array they must be using a combination of hardware and software to achieve those blacks. But trust me the blacks are really black better than any tv at there price range for sure!!!!!
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post #22 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
That is a fact, more or less they put enough zones in to create a play on words, another edge lit TV produced by the manufacturers to bluff the general population into thinking they have a FALD unit . With this said I am sure the unit is worth the asking price, but another example of you get what you pay for.

All manufacturers are getting guilty of this play on words, making people think they are getting one thing when it is actually another, its a drag
Perhaps I'm reading your post incorrectly but if I didn't know any better I think you're saying the Vizio M702i-B3 is an edge-lit TV. If true, you're guilty of being wildly misinformed.

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post #23 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 07:58 AM
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Problem is brand perception here, Chris is referring to Samsung's play on words for their edge lit calling it micro local dimming. Let's not talk out of our asses if you don't know what Vizio is actually doing with FALD. Doesn't matter how many zones they have, there is no rules to this to call it FALD. We still need to be won over and that is not happening with anything currently released. They still don't have good software video controls for calibration, they are skirting by with the bare minimum to a market looking for value while eroding profit margins for manufacturers and dealers and driving down costs. They are the costco brand of TVs. If the P Series is anything close to the Samsung UHDs, then Korea is in trouble as well as all the dealers. Let's see what happens, history is against them for quality, but that could change.
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post #24 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bigballermike99 View Post
Hey Chris I saw the vizios to my eyes there full array they must be using a combination of hardware and software to achieve those blacks. But trust me the blacks are really black better than any tv at there price range for sure!!!!!
Yes, the algorithm Vizio is using on their full array dimming scheme is well implemented resulting in excellent performance for such few zones. Having said that they pale in comparison to high end plasmas though they shame much more expensive Sonys and Samsungs.

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post #25 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post
Problem is brand perception here, Chris is referring to Samsung's play on words for their edge lit calling it micro local dimming. Let's not talk out of our asses if you don't know what Vizio is actually doing with FALD. Doesn't matter how many zones they have, there is no rules to this to call it FALD. We still need to be won over and that is not happening with anything currently released. They still don't have good software video controls for calibration, they are skirting by with the bare minimum to a market looking for value while eroding profit margins for manufacturers and dealers and driving down costs. They are the costco brand of TVs. If the P Series is anything close to the Samsung UHDs, then Korea is in trouble as well as all the dealers. Let's see what happens, history is against them for quality, but that could change.
Umm.. no

I think your giving Vizio too much credit. I think Vizio is doing a wonderful job of bringing FALD panels but that ain't gonna make Samsung or any other companies shacking in their boots. Look at current FALD E or M series. I remember when it was first announced, everybody was going nuts and saying how it will dominate the market no one will buy Samsung edge-lit tv's. Well, did that happened? Also, Vizio's are only sold in the US. Samsung and others all over the world. Dealers and Korea in trouble? lol
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Originally Posted by tubby497 View Post
Umm.. no



I think your giving Vizio too much credit. I think Vizio is doing a wonderful job of bringing FALD panels but that ain't gonna make Samsung or any other companies shacking in their boots. Look at current FALD E or M series. I remember when it was first announced, everybody was going nuts and saying how it will dominate the market no one will buy Samsung edge-lit tv's. Well, did that happened? Also, Vizio's are only sold in the US. Samsung and others all over the world. Dealers and Korea in trouble? lol

Yes and the E and M are value TVs, nothing Vizio released to date is on par to the Samsung's so I agree with you there. Let's see how P and R series performs first, at $3k vs. $8k, I am willing to give them a good look and review, if it's close prices will go down.
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post #27 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 09:56 AM
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Umm.. no

I think your giving Vizio too much credit. I think Vizio is doing a wonderful job of bringing FALD panels but that ain't gonna make Samsung or any other companies shacking in their boots. Look at current FALD E or M series. I remember when it was first announced, everybody was going nuts and saying how it will dominate the market no one will buy Samsung edge-lit tv's. Well, did that happened? Also, Vizio's are only sold in the US. Samsung and others all over the world. Dealers and Korea in trouble? lol
I agree with you that Samsung and certainly the country Korea are not going to be shaking in their boots because of Vizio but I do believe they will eventually take market share from Samsung in the mid range with the M series and the higher range with the P series. Also, it's going to to take time for Vizio to change their image from a Cosco brand even if the P series is a great success.

As it is the Vizio M series is superior to any Samsung 6 and 7 series in overall PQ. The 8 series has too much of an advantage in color accuracy and video processing and it does have a hardware based dimming scheme that works well for an edge-lit design so that's what it's going to take to beat the M series in overall PQ with a Samsung.

Of course if you have a controlled environment the lowly Samsung plasma F5300 beats them all in PQ.
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post #28 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 10:13 AM
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Hearing Scott talk about the M70 on TWIT...I shall wait patiently for them to show up at Costco or Sams and pull the trigger then. It seems the way they priced the 60m3 we should see about a Ben Franklin discount.

Which TWiT was this? Haven't heard the mention of the M70 on TWiT or the HTG podcast.


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post #29 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post
Yes and the E and M are value TVs, nothing Vizio released to date is on par to the Samsung's so I agree with you there. Let's see how P and R series performs first, at $3k vs. $8k, I am willing to give them a good look and review, if it's close prices will go down.
Except he's not agreeing with you in that Vizio is not on par with the Samsungs, not based on the post you're replying to anyway. I believe what tubby is opining is any success Vizio has with this year's models will not have that much of an impact on Samsung in terms of overall sales. You're entitled to your opinion on the superiority of the Samsungs but it runs counter to a number of E and M series reviews.

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post #30 of 226 Old 07-26-2014, 11:20 AM
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Which TWiT was this? Haven't heard the mention of the M70 on TWiT or the HTG podcast.


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He has been talking about this model for about a month on Leo Laport The Tech Guy.
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If it breaks it was meant to"
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