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Old 08-11-2014, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CJayB View Post
Films designed to be show in 3D such as Avatar should be watched in 3D in the movie theater or at home. They are especially things of beauty on a curved screen using passive 3D a la the Sony 65S990A. Dial M for Murder is another great example only at its best in 3D, the way Hitchcock designed it, making a so-so 2D film worth watching.

I just don't get the animosity to either curved screens or 3D. But I would agree that for OLED no one should be forced to accept only curved.

The animosity is simple, the curve DISTORTS THE PICTURE! We waited decades for a screen that didn't distort the image, we got it and now they want to go back to distorting the image. Even more remarkable are the people posting pictures of their curved sets and asking the same thing as you, even though the pictures show a bowed image. Insanity.
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:16 PM
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Well guys, this is why I post less and less everyday. I'm trying to help to explain and where it is just conjuncture I made it clear, someone rudely and childishly mocking my post. Yet the moderators don't moderate this kind of childish and rude behaviour.

I'll stop posting on this thread. Anybody wants to ask anything just PM me.

Sorry there David but I am with Rogo 100%. Amazing that the first OLEDS on the market, from LG were flat. The curve is a gimmick.
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:36 PM
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JWhip, I have zero problem being told as wrong, or misinformed or whatnot. It's the childish and rude attitude that I don't tolerate.

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Old 08-11-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Well guys, this is why I post less and less everyday. I'm trying to help to explain and where it is just conjuncture I made it clear, someone rudely and childishly mocking my post. Yet the moderators don't moderate this kind of childish and rude behaviour.

I'll stop posting on this thread. Anybody wants to ask anything just PM me.
Do like I do take a break from the thread for a while, You are not going to win with folks all the time, that is just life.
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Old 08-11-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
The animosity is simple, the curve DISTORTS THE PICTURE! We waited decades for a screen that didn't distort the image, we got it and now they want to go back to distorting the image. Even more remarkable are the people posting pictures of their curved sets and asking the same thing as you, even though the pictures show a bowed image. Insanity.
Please, the amount of distortion is almost non-existent. I want a cineplex experience at home and just about every film I see is shown on a curved screen. Watching a 65" curved screen from 10' is very similar to watching a film from the middle section of most cinemas. There's never been a better experience than 70mm Cinerama. There are plenty of benefits to a curved screen that more than out way the negative. Just do a forum search.

And spend a few days watching a curved screen before making judgment. Don't let 10 minutes in a BB showroom make the decision for you. It's like everyone who hates a professionally calibrated display because the whites are too yellow for their tastes and therefore watch a non-calibrated cool blue TV. Sure, if after a couple weeks you still prefer your own settings, go back to watching that way. It's your money. But once someone has watched a calibrated D6500 display more than a few days they rarely want to dive back into the blue end of the pool.
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:30 PM
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Please, the amount of distortion is almost non-existent. I want a cineplex experience at home and just about every film I see is shown on a curved screen. Watching a 65" curved screen from 10' is very similar to watching a film from the middle section of most cinemas. There's never been a better experience than 70mm Cinerama. There are plenty of benefits to a curved screen that more than out way the negative. Just do a forum search.

And spend a few days watching a curved screen before making judgment. Don't let 10 minutes in a BB showroom make the decision for you. It's like everyone who hates a professionally calibrated display because the whites are too yellow for their tastes and therefore watch a non-calibrated cool blue TV. Sure, if after a couple weeks you still prefer your own settings, go back to watching that way. It's your money. But once someone has watched a calibrated D6500 display more than a few days they rarely want to dive back into the blue end of the pool.

CJayB, I have a TON of experience with curved TV screens. I have spent hours with the damn things at various locations in homes, showrooms and private demonstrations with industry execs, etc. It doesn't get any better for me watching them hour after hour after hour. It just gets worse and frankly, it ticks me off to no end to view them. My feelings have been made known to CE reps and will again this week. Screens in a commercial theater are curved for a reason that does not exist with a flat screen immisive display at home. You are therefore introducing distortion to the image at home for no reason at all other than to mimic a screen that it curved to make up for limitations in projectors. Images on a curved screen at a theater do not have fishbowl look that small TV screens have with curved lines that should be straight, etc. If all screens at a theater could be flat they would be. Jeez....... Enough said. Buy what you want. I want the option to be able to buy a FLAT OLED of at least 65". OTherwise, I will buy nothing at all and be happy with what I have now as long as it keeps functioning, knock on wood.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:44 PM
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CJayB, you are making no sense here...

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Originally Posted by CJayB View Post
Please, the amount of distortion is almost non-existent.
Right, who should I believe, you or my lying eyes (with hours of time in front of curved sets)?

The distortion, the bowing of the image, is obvious to many of us. It may not be obvious to you, but it's best not to project your lack of perception on to others.

And if the effect of the curve was that non-existent, then why would your post continue on the premise that it DOES constitute a substantial difference?


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I want a cineplex experience at home and just about every film I see is shown on a curved screen.
First, not all movie screens are curved, many are not.

Second, you don't seem to understand why curved movie screens ("Torex") are used in the first place. They are used to REDUCE GEOMETRIC DISTORTION - "Pincushioning" - of the image, often caused by auditoriums with short throw distances. Look at this explanation here:

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...ie-screen1.htm

Look at the images depicting the distorted pinchusioned image, and how the curved screen FIXES the curvature
making the lines straight again. This is also exactly why curved screens are sometimes employed in home theaters where the throw distance will induce curvature in the image (and to maintain even brightness in some cases as well).

In other words, curved projection screens are there to REDUCE JUST THE TYPE OF IMAGE DISTORTION THAT A CURVED FLAT SCREEN IS RE-INTRODUCING INTO IMAGES.

So you've got the reasoning behind all this completely backwards.



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Originally Posted by CJayB View Post
There are plenty of benefits to a curved screen that more than out way the negative. Just do a forum search.
No. There aren't. A forum search will turn up all sorts of reasons, such as the ones I'm giving, as to why many people have reasons to reject a curved flat screen. If you LIKE them, no one is stopping you enjoying them, or telling you not to. But don't try and tell those who don't like curved screens that they really don't have any good reason not to like them, or imply we are just whining for no real good reason.

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Originally Posted by CJayB View Post
And spend a few days watching a curved screen before making judgment. Don't let 10 minutes in a BB showroom make the decision for you. It's like everyone who hates a professionally calibrated display because the whites are too yellow for their tastes and therefore watch a non-calibrated cool blue TV. Sure, if after a couple weeks you still prefer your own settings, go back to watching that way. It's your money. But once someone has watched a calibrated D6500 display more than a few days they rarely want to dive back into the blue end of the pool.
Ok, so now the curve makes so much of a difference to an image you want to make the analogy to the difference between a calibrated and uncalibrated image.

But if we point out we are distracted by the difference that we notice with the curved screen, then apparently we are complaining about virtually non-existent differences.

Hookay.

Look, curving a screen without altering the image gemoetry itself to compensate for that curve (a la theater projection) entails distorting the image geometry. If you are not bothered by this, fine, but other people are, and it's silly to try to downplay the issue simply because you personally are not bothered by it. Once there are perceptible differences, it's up to the individual how significant they are - it's not up to any of us to tell the others "that's not really a bothersome issue."

(This is really easy to see in the area of, say, projection screens. Every projection screen has it's compromise, some having more visible textures, others having uneven hotpotting, some shifting the color, etc. Viewers are sensitive to different artifacts, so one screen will have artifacts that are obvious and bothersome to "A" but not to "B" and visa versa. Same with artifacts like the image distortion from curved TVs. It's there. I'm not going to tell anyone who doesn't notice it that they have to notice it or be bothered by it. But by the same token, it's ignorant for someone else to tell me I don't really notice the distortion and/or that my distaste for it has little basis).
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:16 PM
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CJayB, I have a TON of experience with curved TV screens. I have spent hours with the damn things at various locations in homes, showrooms and private demonstrations with industry execs, etc. It doesn't get any better for me watching them hour after hour after hour. It just gets worse and frankly, it ticks me off to no end to view them. My feelings have been made known to CE reps and will again this week. Screens in a commercial theater are curved for a reason that does not exist with a flat screen immisive display at home. You are therefore introducing distortion to the image at home for no reason at all other than to mimic a screen that it curved to make up for limitations in projectors. Images on a curved screen at a theater do not have fishbowl look that small TV screens have with curved lines that should be straight, etc. If all screens at a theater could be flat they would be. Jeez....... Enough said. Buy what you want. I want the option to be able to buy a FLAT OLED of at least 65". OTherwise, I will buy nothing at all and be happy with what I have now as long as it keeps functioning, knock on wood.
Curved theater or curved TV screens do distort the image but marginally, and the brain for most quickly adapts to it. Sorry if it doesn't for you.

Yep, buy what you want and be happy, but no need to get hyper about it. The only thing I can't understand is unreasonable anger at curved screens. Like I said, there are plenty of reasons and advantages to curved LCD and OLED TVs. I don't see why you can't see that.

Okay, one other thing I really don't understand is why anyone would want TVs over 70" or maybe 75". 85" and 120" TVs? Might as well just get a projector. But again, to each his own.

Personally, my next purchase is a 64" Samsung plasma and if affordable OLED TVs never come along, and if plasmas are discontinued as they soon will be, I could still be happy even if the plasma dies and I only have my excellent Sony S990 to watch.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:30 PM
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Curved theater or curved TV screens do distort the image but marginally, and the brain for most quickly adapts to it. Sorry if it doesn't for you.

Yep, buy what you want and be happy, but no need to get hyper about it. The only thing I can't understand is unreasonable anger at curved screens. Like I said, there are plenty of reasons and advantages to curved LCD and OLED TVs. I don't see why you can't see that.

Okay, one other thing I really don't understand is why anyone would want TVs over 70" or maybe 75". 85" and 120" TVs? Might as well just get a projector. But again, to each his own.

Personally, my next purchase is a 64" Samsung plasma and if affordable OLED TVs never come along, and if plasmas are discontinued as they soon will be, I could still be happy even if the plasma dies and I only have my excellent Sony S990 to watch.


Customers/people/videophiles are angry that the best LED/LCD TVs now are all 4K - if you only want a 1080p TV in a 2014 model, you will need to accept some compromise in other areas as well, be it dimming technology, number of local dimming zones, native refresh rate or whatever. I trust you can understand why that situation makes some people angry - if you are not into 4K this year, you are being treated like a second class citizen and will be forced to accept compromise in other areas of PQ that are unavoidable.


Exactly the same with the curve - if you want a flat screen, Samsung and LG with their Gen-2 WOLEDs are going to treat to like a second class citizen - you will either need to accept a step backwards in other attributes like local dimming technology (Samsung), or your dream TV will not be available at all flat (LG Gen-2 OLED) - and now, if you are a Sony customer, you will be forced to accept the ugly bulky side speakers if you insist on flat and edge-lit.


Let's take it to the limit and imagine that if you want the best black levels and shadow detail, you will be forced to accept the distortion of a curved screen that you find objectionable. Of course, you can purchase a flat TV but then you are going to get dark-grey blacks and crappy contrast. Do you understand why that situation would make videophiles/high-end TV customers angry??
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:53 PM
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CJayB, you are making no sense here...



Right, who should I believe, you or my lying eyes (with hours of time in front of curved sets)?

The distortion, the bowing of the image, is obvious to many of us. It may not be obvious to you, but it's best not to project your lack of perception on to others.

And if the effect of the curve was that non-existent, then why would your post continue on the premise that it DOES constitute a substantial difference?




First, not all movie screens are curved, many are not.

Second, you don't seem to understand why curved movie screens ("Torex") are used in the first place. They are used to REDUCE GEOMETRIC DISTORTION - "Pincushioning" - of the image, often caused by auditoriums with short throw distances. Look at this explanation here:

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.c...ie-screen1.htm

Look at the images depicting the distorted pinchusioned image, and how the curved screen FIXES the curvature
making the lines straight again. This is also exactly why curved screens are sometimes employed in home theaters where the throw distance will induce curvature in the image (and to maintain even brightness in some cases as well).

In other words, curved projection screens are there to REDUCE JUST THE TYPE OF IMAGE DISTORTION THAT A CURVED FLAT SCREEN IS RE-INTRODUCING INTO IMAGES.

So you've got the reasoning behind all this completely backwards.





No. There aren't. A forum search will turn up all sorts of reasons, such as the ones I'm giving, as to why many people have reasons to reject a curved flat screen. If you LIKE them, no one is stopping you enjoying them, or telling you not to. But don't try and tell those who don't like curved screens that they really don't have any good reason not to like them, or imply we are just whining for no real good reason.



Ok, so now the curve makes so much of a difference to an image you want to make the analogy to the difference between a calibrated and uncalibrated image.

But if we point out we are distracted by the difference that we notice with the curved screen, then apparently we are complaining about virtually non-existent differences.

Hookay.

Look, curving a screen without altering the image gemoetry itself to compensate for that curve (a la theater projection) entails distorting the image geometry. If you are not bothered by this, fine, but other people are, and it's silly to try to downplay the issue simply because you personally are not bothered by it. Once there are perceptible differences, it's up to the individual how significant they are - it's not up to any of us to tell the others "that's not really a bothersome issue."

(This is really easy to see in the area of, say, projection screens. Every projection screen has it's compromise, some having more visible textures, others having uneven hotpotting, some shifting the color, etc. Viewers are sensitive to different artifacts, so one screen will have artifacts that are obvious and bothersome to "A" but not to "B" and visa versa. Same with artifacts like the image distortion from curved TVs. It's there. I'm not going to tell anyone who doesn't notice it that they have to notice it or be bothered by it. But by the same token, it's ignorant for someone else to tell me I don't really notice the distortion and/or that my distaste for it has little basis).
I'm so sorry to have lit this firecracker. Life is far too short to spend days cleaning up the wreckage or getting angry at TV sets. Fact is I'm a total videophile and still there are plenty of great options available for me and anyone else trying to get a true cinematic experience in their home even without OLED. But then I really have only been talking about the Sony curved screen, not OLED, as I thought that was the subject of this particular thread.

Hookum indeed. Time to stop chatting and get back to watching some great films starting with Once Upon a Time in Anatolia.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Well guys, this is why I post less and less everyday. I'm trying to help to explain and where it is just conjuncture I made it clear, someone rudely and childishly mocking my post. Yet the moderators don't moderate this kind of childish and rude behaviour.

I'll stop posting on this thread. Anybody wants to ask anything just PM me.
Sorry.

1) For offending you.

2) For not agreeing with you that my response was "childish" or "rude".

Your post was fiction.

It wasn't a point of opinion to disagree with; it was urban legend. I called it out for being that.

You didn't like that. I get it. Who would? You basically posted an alligator-in-the-sewer story to AVS that you "sourced" to multiple people. I have no idea why you do that or who told you such nonsense.

Did I mock it? I'd say the "Candyman" bit qualified as mocking....

Did I mock you? I'd say the part where I mentioned you by name, called you out / called you something offense didn't exist. So no.

Did the story need to be stopped before it become so AVS-meme-that-would-not-die? I'd say after 15 years here, the answer was yes. If you don't crush those nonsensical memes, they live on for far too long.

Sorry I offended you and about the manner.

Not sorry I eviscerated the false non-facts however.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:37 PM
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1. The source was Panasonic and Sony engineers
2. At CES2013 Panasonic display actually mentioned that they are using OLED printing technology licensed from a European company (can't remember which company)
3. From one of many OLED made-for-journalist whitepapers received at CEDIA 2013

"How an OLED panel is made
Making an OLED involves several steps: taking a substrate, cleaning it, making the backplane (the switching and driving circuitry), depositing and patterning the organic layers and finally encapsulation the whole thing to prevent dust, oxygen and moisture damage.

There are several ways to deposit and pattern the organic layers. Currently all OLED displays are made using vacuum evaporation, using a Shadow Mask (FMM, Fine Metal Mask) to pattern. This is a relatively simple method but it is inefficient and very difficult to scale up to large substrates. There are several alternatives for next-gen techniques, including inkjet printing. These methods will be scalable and more efficient than vacuum deposition."

Read carefully: NEXT GEN TECHNIQUES, INCLUDING INKJET PRINTING. therefore inkjet printing is a NEW manufacturing process, whereas the non-inkjet is the older technology.


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Old 08-11-2014, 09:46 PM
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Btw, CES2013: Panasonic display CLEARLY mentioned that they use "Printing Technology" for their 4K OLED. See pic.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:56 PM
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Since you're "calling me out" and saying my statement as "fiction"...after looking at the photo proof...who is more likely being fictitious? The one who said that OLED is not manufactured by printing, Panasonic, or tens of thousands of people including Mark Haflich who read about newer OLED is being manufactured using printing technology?

PS: for AMOLED, PHOLED, and older OLED, it is true that they use vacuum process which does not involve printing technology.

I'm done Let the rest of the members decide whether me or you who are wrong. If I'm wrong, that's fine. One thing I know for a fact, however, your posts tone is rude and childish. Anybody with a hint of maturity will not act/post the way you did.

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Old 08-11-2014, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
1. The source was Panasonic and Sony engineers
2. At CES2013 Panasonic display actually mentioned that they are using OLED printing technology licensed from a European company (can't remember which company)
3. From one of many OLED made-for-journalist whitepapers received at CEDIA 2013

"How an OLED panel is made
Making an OLED involves several steps: taking a substrate, cleaning it, making the backplane (the switching and driving circuitry), depositing and patterning the organic layers and finally encapsulation the whole thing to prevent dust, oxygen and moisture damage.

There are several ways to deposit and pattern the organic layers. Currently all OLED displays are made using vacuum evaporation, using a Shadow Mask (FMM, Fine Metal Mask) to pattern. This is a relatively simple method but it is inefficient and very difficult to scale up to large substrates. There are several alternatives for next-gen techniques, including inkjet printing. These methods will be scalable and more efficient than vacuum deposition."

Read carefully: NEXT GEN TECHNIQUES, INCLUDING INKJET PRINTING. therefore inkjet printing is a NEW manufacturing process, whereas the non-inkjet is the older technology.


David,


I have a great deal of respect for you and also a great deal of respect for Rogo. And I believe that all of us (and most Forum members) share an interest to get to the facts and avoid spreading misinformation.


Had you made it clear in your first post on the subject that the source of the information was Sony and Panasonic engineers, who had just 'given up the ghost' on OLED and had an interest to see LG fail, rather than LG engineers, I would have been more suspicious of the information to begin with.


In addition, the extra detail regarding difficulties with FMM refer to the Samsung process and the difficulties Samsung has had in scaling it to large TV panels (and ultimately, their decision for now to abandon the effort) - the advantage with the LG process is precisely that it avoid the need for FMM and allows for full-sheet organic material deposition.


And finally, printing organic materials is the Kateeva technology that may be the second coming a few years from now but is not in production today, so there is no way problems related to printing OLEDs could explain difficulties with LGs current manufacturing process, which is based on deposition.


To be fair, you did mention 'printing' in your first post on the subject and so I am somewhat guilty in taking your explanation of the OLED curve and running with it. But for next time, if you had provided a bit more of this context regarding the companies whose engineers were the source of your information, it likely would have caused me to ask a few more questions at the onset and might have avoided this 'meme-squashing' interchange between you and Rogo...
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Old 08-11-2014, 10:07 PM
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Fafrd,

Quite honestly I don't think Sony and Panasonic engineers were bashing the tech or whatnot. After all, it's not until a year after CES2013 and a couple of months after IFA2013 that Sony and Panasonic decided to mysteriously dropped OLED

But of course, my statement above is biased as some of the OLED engineers are my long time aquaintances (Sony, Panasonic, Samsung--in fact I used to be Samsung Korea's consultant for a couple of years; LG, admittedly I don't know any of their display engineers, only Blu-ray division)

Cheers!

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Old 08-11-2014, 10:17 PM
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Fafrd,

Quite honestly I don't think Sony and Panasonic engineers were bashing the tech or whatnot. After all, it's not until a year after CES2013 and a couple of months after IFA2013 that Sony and Panasonic decided to mysteriously dropped OLED

But of course, my statement above is biased as some of the OLED engineers are my long time aquaintances (Sony, Panasonic, Samsung--in fact I used to be Samsung Korea's consultant for a couple of years; LG, admittedly I don't know any of their display engineers, only Blu-ray division)

Cheers!

Industrializing OLED TVs has been far harder than anyone could have imagined at the outset. There is probably a natural (and understandable) tendency among engineers who have poured their career into this endeavor with little progress to show for it to want to believe that other approaches to meeting these challenges of OLED industrialization are likely to be plagued with the same kinds of difficulties that impeded their progress.


LG is in a unique and leading position right now, thought they are still al long, long way from being out of the woods (perhaps by 2016, if all goes well).


In the meantime, the mystery of LGs focus on curved OLEDs remains (as is my suspicion that LGs marketing department leaves a great deal to be desired). I fear LG has much more experience in being a follower in this high-end TV field than being a leader...


Maybe LG should find a few of the Sony Trinitron marketing guys and bring them out of retirement to come on board as consultants :-)
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:44 AM
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Since you're "calling me out" and saying my statement as "fiction"...after looking at the photo proof...who is more likely being fictitious? The one who said that OLED is not manufactured by printing, Panasonic, or tens of thousands of people including Mark Haflich who read about newer OLED is being manufactured using printing technology?

PS: for AMOLED, PHOLED, and older OLED, it is true that they use vacuum process which does not involve printing technology.

I'm done Let the rest of the members decide whether me or you who are wrong. If I'm wrong, that's fine. One thing I know for a fact, however, your posts tone is rude and childish. Anybody with a hint of maturity will not act/post the way you did.

Nothing about having the be curved however.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:20 AM
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Any updates on prices and release date


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Old 08-12-2014, 09:34 AM
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More than likely won't be any price release until after or during IFA. It's similar to the x9 but has motion flow 800 instead of 960. It could be priced in between it or maybe a little more I don't expect it to be a whole lot more than the x9.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:35 PM
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Well, this will start a S*Storm, but if they can get the price point of the XBR 79" S90x under 10K, I have just the spot waiting for it. I think it will be perfect in the specific location I have in mind. It has to be FALD or it will be a tough sell to me. I really have a spot for an 80"+, so that's close enough and should be the picture quality I am looking for and willing open my wallet. Glad to do a review, once they meet those points.

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PS, have a Sony 929, Panny VT50, and a Sammy F8500. It's time to branch out...
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:05 PM
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Yes, this thread has become simply a curved screen bash. My 900B has be returned and credited, eager to hear the specs on this before I re-order.

Last edited by Wraith2; 08-12-2014 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
1. The source was Panasonic and Sony engineers
Doubtful. You might be confusing certain sales personnel with engineers, but I very much doubt you heard this from engineers. The Sony and Panasonic engineers do not ever speak English as a first language. There is no way you had that conversation with actual display engineers, perhaps "sales engineers"?
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2. At CES2013 Panasonic display actually mentioned that they are using OLED printing technology licensed from a European company (can't remember which company)
Panasonic has never manufactured any OLEDs beyond prototypes. So, yeah.
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3. From one of many OLED made-for-journalist whitepapers received at CEDIA 2013

There are several ways to deposit and pattern the organic layers. Currently all OLED displays are made using vacuum evaporation, using a Shadow Mask (FMM, Fine Metal Mask) to pattern. This is a relatively simple method but it is inefficient and very difficult to scale up to large substrates. There are several alternatives for next-gen techniques, including inkjet printing. These methods will be scalable and more efficient than vacuum deposition."
So, the above paragraph is wrong on many levels. LG does not use FMM and makes the only commercial OLED today. It does use vapor deposition, but no "patterning" of the OLED at all.
Quote:
Read carefully: NEXT GEN TECHNIQUES, INCLUDING INKJET PRINTING. therefore inkjet printing is a NEW manufacturing process, whereas the non-inkjet is the older technology.

Actually, no one is using printing. So therefore it can't be causing displays to curve. Period. So stop repeating this like it proves your point. Because it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Btw, CES2013: Panasonic display CLEARLY mentioned that they use "Printing Technology" for their 4K OLED. See pic.
For prototypes. Which, incidentally, were flat when first shown and then shown curved at a later show. Which again does nothing to prove your point.

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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Since you're "calling me out" and saying my statement as "fiction"...after looking at the photo proof...who is more likely being fictitious?
Photo proof? Please. That's like arguing because the gloves didn't fit OJ, he didn't kill Nicole and Rn.
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The one who said that OLED is not manufactured by printing, Panasonic, or tens of thousands of people including Mark Haflich who read about newer OLED is being manufactured using printing technology?
OLED is not manufactured using printing technology. I am right, you are not. If Mark Haflich said it is, he is wrong. (I have no idea what he said). Someday, OLED might well be printed. It is not today. Therefore, nothing about printing OLEDs can explain why today's OLEDs are curved.

The leading manufacturer of printing equipment for OLEDs will happily confirm to you that printing in no way leads to OLEDs requiring curves or being easier to make while curved or "furling" up. That company is Kateeva. Call their PR.
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PS: for AMOLED, PHOLED, and older OLED, it is true that they use vacuum process which does not involve printing technology.
PS: 0% of OLEDs today are being printed.
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I'm done Let the rest of the members decide whether me or you who are wrong.
The members can decide what they want. I'm right and you're wrong. They don't have to believe that, but it's the case here.
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If I'm wrong, that's fine.
Glad to know it's fine.
Quote:
One thing I know for a fact, however, your posts tone is rude and childish.
Your posts tone is rude and childish. Your insistence on repeating a set of fictional non-facts is especially childish.
Quote:
Anybody with a hint of maturity will not act/post the way you did.
You might want to get a mirror.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:48 PM
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Oh give it a rest guys, if people need to know they can look it up themselves. Few things are as tedious and boring as a nerd fight in an audio/video forum.
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:04 AM
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Oh give it a rest guys, if people need to know they can look it up themselves. Few things are as tedious and boring as a nerd fight in an audio/video forum.
Actually this information is not readily available, or at least not easily found and understood to the uninitiated. The inside information provided by folks like Rogo (and David Susilo, and others) is often quite valuable. It's one of the best things about enthusiast forums like AVS.

The most accurate information may sometimes be found among debates between knowledgeable participants, but hey, that's what happens in forums.
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:01 AM
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Rogo, English is my 5th language. Although Japanese is not my first language, I received Japanese education from the age of 3 to 15. I also write my articles in Indonesian, Malaysian, and Dutch (two of which are my first languages as I was born in Indonesia and my grandmother is Dutch). So yeah, communicating with the engineers are not a problem for me

Like said, I received my information thusly, if you think I'm wrong, then that's fine. It just seems like you have a lot of rage inside you.

Cheers!

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Old 08-13-2014, 08:37 AM
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Some info about OLED Inkjet Printing
http://news.oled-display.net/oled-inkjet-printing/

advantages
- very efficient use of materials with high throughput
- scalability to large areas
- less complex process
- open technology access

disadvantages
- no established process for mass production
- requires technology availability and suitable inks
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Actually this information is not readily available, or at least not easily found and understood to the uninitiated. The inside information provided by folks like Rogo (and David Susilo, and others) is often quite valuable. It's one of the best things about enthusiast forums like AVS.

The most accurate information may sometimes be found among debates between knowledgeable participants, but hey, that's what happens in forums.
Granted, when it's constructive, but this has become tit for tat. This thread was supposed to be about the new Sony 4k lcd not who is correct with regard to the manufacturing process of OLED. Perhaps this is a bi-product vacuum of not having any further information on the new TV but it would seem to me that this topic, and debate, would be better served in it's own thread.
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:24 PM
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Just another gimmick to steal your well earned money! I don't see any reason to jump into this either!
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Old 08-13-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Rogo, English is my 5th language. Although Japanese is not my first language, I received Japanese education from the age of 3 to 15. I also write my articles in Indonesian, Malaysian, and Dutch (two of which are my first languages as I was born in Indonesia and my grandmother is Dutch). So yeah, communicating with the engineers are not a problem for me

Like said, I received my information thusly, if you think I'm wrong, then that's fine. It just seems like you have a lot of rage inside you.
In no way did I mean to impugn your multi-lingual ability. I am suitably impressed, on the contrary.

If display engineers from Sony or Panasonic told you what you reported here as you reported it, to be honest, they were as equally ill-informed as the guy who heard about alligators in the sewer.

I have no rage, certainly none toward you.

I am just not a fan of the spread of misinformation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Some info about OLED Inkjet Printing
http://news.oled-display.net/oled-inkjet-printing/

advantages
- very efficient use of materials with high throughput
- scalability to large areas
- less complex process
- open technology access

disadvantages
- no established process for mass production
- requires technology availability and suitable inks
Note that on the disadvantages list there is nothing about "curling" of substrates from drying inks.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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