***Official 2014 Vizio P Series Owner's Thread - Page 212 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6331 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by modenaf1123 View Post
Unfortunately the bad news here - after playing with this for a day I have been unable to run at anything better than 4K @ 30FPS ALSO WITH REDUCED CHROMA. Considering I'm planning to use this for desktop use almost more than as a TV, this is a HUGE bummer in my book. I haven't given up on it yet, as I may try another card and HDMI cable, but I will say, if I can't get this resolved, or at least be able to run 4K at 30Hz with full Chroma, I will be returning this TV.

Search the thread for NVIDIA; there's been a lot of posting here of the trials and tribulations of people trying to use this as a high performance 4K computer monitor for gaming. That's not its purpose and it doesn't serve it particularly well. I use it as the monitor for this computer but I don't do anything more challenging with it than play video clips on it.

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post #6332 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Search the thread for NVIDIA; there's been a lot of posting here of the trials and tribulations of people trying to use this as a high performance 4K computer monitor for gaming. That's not its purpose and it doesn't serve it particularly well. I use it as the monitor for this computer but I don't do anything more challenging with it than play video clips on it.
It's a video display, its "purpose" is whatever you want to use it for to that end. The model is marketed as supporting 4k/60 and 1080p/120--for which a PC is the only use case currently available. To say it's not really for that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

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post #6333 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by USRobo View Post
Yes. Please post pictures. I will get mine on Tuesday and very I use Plex via Apple TV trailers now.
DLNA (navigated to video folder and playing a video at the top):


Plex App navigated to Movie section:


Either way, I'm still using my Roku 3 for most Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and Plex streaming. The lack of surround sound in Plex is a killer IMO.
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post #6334 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Orta View Post
It's a video display, its "purpose" is whatever you want to use it for to that end. The model is marketed as supporting 4k/60 and 1080p/120--for which a PC is the only use case currently available. To say it's not really for that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
You might want to consider what michaelscott's career has been and read the Nvidia comments B4 forming an opinion☺

I'm not so sure a GTX 650 TI is enough card for 4K /60 @ 4:4:4 anyway . I have a stronger R9 270x on one of my PC's and it will do 4K/30@ 4:4:4 but AFAIK it will not do 4K/60@ 4:4:4 on HDMI ofc the 650TI is a little dated (as video cards go ) maybe a stronger card would run at least 4K/30 at 4:4:4 or 4K/ 60 @ 4:2:2 or 4:4:4

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post #6335 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by modenaf1123 View Post
Well, I'd have to say I was one of those folks that had been following this thread since day one, tracking the shipments of TV's before they were for sale, and had super high hopes for this TV.

My 55 inch P arrived yesterday and here are my impressions, sad to say I'm a bit disappointed. I am by no means a professional and set the TV up with Buzzard's calibration settings on the first page.


PROS in my opinion:
1080p upscaling was my biggest fear, and I must say compared with my 2013 M, this TV looks great and I think they did a great job with upscaling. It is mounted above my desk and as close as I sit, the 4k is very noticeable to me. On a regular 1080p set of this size, I can definitely see individual pixels. On this TV I cannot.

After using Buzzard's settings, I must say the colors look incredibly accurate.

Screen uniformity is EXCELLENT on my set. I had some minor banding and noticed that there were screws on the backside of the TV exactly where the bands were. I took it off the wall, slightly loosened the screws (they are still really tight) and noticed the banding went away.

In anything but a completely dark room, I really can't notice anything wrong with picture quality in general.

The viewing angle is great. It is mounted above my desk and my bed is to the side. In bed I'm viewing from about a 55 degree angle and colors remain accurate on this IPS panel. (more on contrast in the cons)

Remote response is good, the addition of QWERTY is awesome.


CONS in my opinion

I'm running a Kepler based Nvidia card (a GTX650Ti) and the R340.57 drivers which should support 4k @ 60fps at reduced Chroma. Unfortunately the bad news here - after playing with this for a day I have been unable to run at anything better than 4K @ 30FPS ALSO WITH REDUCED CHROMA. Considering I'm planning to use this for desktop use almost more than as a TV, this is a HUGE bummer in my book. I haven't given up on it yet, as I may try another card and HDMI cable, but I will say, if I can't get this resolved, or at least be able to run 4K at 30Hz with full Chroma, I will be returning this TV.


While the off angle viewing of the IPS panel is great as far as colors and detail are concerned, the already somewhat compromised black levels get progressively worse as you move away. This TV's 64 local dimming zones are great, the algorithms that run them are pretty good, but with the off angle IPS glow, local dimming is just far too noticeable when viewing at severe off angles.


The front side of the remote is not backlit. Why would they leave this out? I use the front more than the QWERTY. Not a huge deal as I can ebay an XRT-510 non qwerty remote that has a backlit front face for next to nothing.


The box and packaging were great as far as unboxing it easily, but the box and protection for the TV are so slim I can understand why so many folks got damaged TV's. I just got lucky with mine I guess.


Other than the HUGE HDMI dealbreaker for me, this is a great TV with excellent picture quality in my opinion. If I could run 4K at 60hz and full chroma, I would take it off the wall, sell my computer monitors, put it on my desk, then just swivel it to point directly at me when in bed which would eliminate my off angle IPS glow and local dimming issues. Unfortunately, with no full chroma and limited to 30Hz, I can't justify getting rid of my monitors and putting this on the desk.



I don't think the GTX650 has HDMI2.0 so there is absolutely no way it could send 4k@60fps full chroma to any TV.
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post #6336 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bots View Post
DLNA (navigated to video folder and playing a video at the top):


Plex App navigated to Movie section:


Either way, I'm still using my Roku 3 for most Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and Plex streaming. The lack of surround sound in Plex is a killer IMO.
Thanks for pictures. I may use the Roku also if the I terface is clunky.
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post #6337 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Orta View Post
It's a video display, its "purpose" is whatever you want to use it for to that end. The model is marketed as supporting 4k/60 and 1080p/120--for which a PC is the only use case currently available. To say it's not really for that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

You can shave your face with a highly sharpened chef's knife but that doesn't make it a razor.

They advertised it as being able to do 4K@60Hz but they didn't say that it could do it with 4:4:4 color. Apparently the bandwidth of its sole HDMI 2.0 connection is inadequate to do it due to the overhead of HDCP 2.2 protection which cannot be defeated. People have reported getting it to do 4k@60Hz with 4:2:0 color, but not, I seem to recall, with NVIDIA cards. I believe that people have also gotten it to do 1080@120Hz. I know that it reports to my crappy old 4GB Radeon 7450 card that 120 is the top refresh rate at 1080 res, though my card can't drive at that.
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post #6338 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zmarty View Post
I tried streaming the El Fuente 60 MP10 4K test video on my new P65.

It goes up to 16000 kbps, but only for 2-3 seconds. Then it drops down to 10000 or 12000.

I have 100 Mbps download on fiber from Frontier Communications. I cannot say for sure if the TV or the Internet is the problem.

Can anybody check if they can get the 16000 kbps bitrate for sustained periods of time?
I have Verizon fios with 50/50 dl/ul. Steady 16Mbps for the el fuente video.
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post #6339 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bots View Post
DLNA (navigated to video folder and playing a video at the top):


Plex App navigated to Movie section:


Either way, I'm still using my Roku 3 for most Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and Plex streaming. The lack of surround sound in Plex is a killer IMO.
Thanks for pictures. I may use the Roku also if the I terface is clunky.
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post #6340 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by zmarty View Post
If you start playing that exact video that I mentioned the encoding bit rate will be shown overlayed on top of the video. This is a test video from Netflix. It needs to be that exact name, the other videos with similar name do not have this overlay on top.
After starting almost instantly, it was playing at 5800 and quickly climbed to 16000 where it remained for the rest of the video....this is on 100Mbps service on Comcast in SE Mich....
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post #6341 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by modenaf1123 View Post
Well, I'd have to say I was one of those folks that had been following this thread since day one, tracking the shipments of TV's before they were for sale, and had super high hopes for this TV.

My 55 inch P arrived yesterday and here are my impressions, sad to say I'm a bit disappointed. I am by no means a professional and set the TV up with Buzzard's calibration settings on the first page.


PROS in my opinion:
1080p upscaling was my biggest fear, and I must say compared with my 2013 M, this TV looks great and I think they did a great job with upscaling. It is mounted above my desk and as close as I sit, the 4k is very noticeable to me. On a regular 1080p set of this size, I can definitely see individual pixels. On this TV I cannot.

After using Buzzard's settings, I must say the colors look incredibly accurate.

Screen uniformity is EXCELLENT on my set. I had some minor banding and noticed that there were screws on the backside of the TV exactly where the bands were. I took it off the wall, slightly loosened the screws (they are still really tight) and noticed the banding went away.

In anything but a completely dark room, I really can't notice anything wrong with picture quality in general.

The viewing angle is great. It is mounted above my desk and my bed is to the side. In bed I'm viewing from about a 55 degree angle and colors remain accurate on this IPS panel. (more on contrast in the cons)

Remote response is good, the addition of QWERTY is awesome.


CONS in my opinion

I'm running a Kepler based Nvidia card (a GTX650Ti) and the R340.57 drivers which should support 4k @ 60fps at reduced Chroma. Unfortunately the bad news here - after playing with this for a day I have been unable to run at anything better than 4K @ 30FPS ALSO WITH REDUCED CHROMA. Considering I'm planning to use this for desktop use almost more than as a TV, this is a HUGE bummer in my book. I haven't given up on it yet, as I may try another card and HDMI cable, but I will say, if I can't get this resolved, or at least be able to run 4K at 30Hz with full Chroma, I will be returning this TV.


While the off angle viewing of the IPS panel is great as far as colors and detail are concerned, the already somewhat compromised black levels get progressively worse as you move away. This TV's 64 local dimming zones are great, the algorithms that run them are pretty good, but with the off angle IPS glow, local dimming is just far too noticeable when viewing at severe off angles.


The front side of the remote is not backlit. Why would they leave this out? I use the front more than the QWERTY. Not a huge deal as I can ebay an XRT-510 non qwerty remote that has a backlit front face for next to nothing.


The box and packaging were great as far as unboxing it easily, but the box and protection for the TV are so slim I can understand why so many folks got damaged TV's. I just got lucky with mine I guess.


Other than the HUGE HDMI dealbreaker for me, this is a great TV with excellent picture quality in my opinion. If I could run 4K at 60hz and full chroma, I would take it off the wall, sell my computer monitors, put it on my desk, then just swivel it to point directly at me when in bed which would eliminate my off angle IPS glow and local dimming issues. Unfortunately, with no full chroma and limited to 30Hz, I can't justify getting rid of my monitors and putting this on the desk.


What do you think about your P55 contrast and black levels? That is supposed to be the week point of a IPS panel compared to the VA panels like the P50 P60 and P70.
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post #6342 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by USRobo View Post
What do you think about your P55 contrast and black levels? That is supposed to be the week point of a IPS panel compared to the VA panels like the P50 P60 and P70.

Only when watching in a pitch-black viewing environment...
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post #6343 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by USRobo View Post
What do you think about your P55 contrast and black levels? That is supposed to be the week point of a IPS panel compared to the VA panels like the P50 P60 and P70.
Somewhat disappointing in a dark room, though I was expecting that with the IPS panel. I'm actually very impressed with them in a dim/partially lit room head on though. This IPS panel appears to have much better contrast than the IPS panel on my 2013 55 inch M series. Where the contrast really falls off is off angle viewing (to be expected), so if I'm at an angle it pretty much needs to be daytime and with active LED zones off.


As far as the output, I know this TV will never do 4K @ 60hz @ full chroma as the HDCP chip is the limitation (and they didn't include an HDMI 2.0 port that isn't backed by HDCP). I was just surprised I wasn't able to do 4K @ 60Hz @ 4:2:0 as that is something Nvidia claims my generation or newer card should be able to do on HDMI 1.4 with the 340 drivers. What I was really bummed on was the fact that I can't get full chroma at 30Hz. I thought this wouldn't be that noticeable, but in reality, everything looks like ****. Even the 4K youtube sample clips just look absolutely horrible in comparison to watching Netflix at 1080P.

On that note, is there any 4K content on Netflix other than House of Cards? I haven't been able to get it to go above 1080.

Last edited by modenaf1123; 11-02-2014 at 04:23 PM.
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post #6344 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by modenaf1123 View Post
As far as the output, I know this TV will never do 4K @ 60hz @ full chroma as the HDCP chip is the limitation (and they didn't include an HDMI 2.0 port that isn't backed by HDCP). I was just surprised I wasn't able to do 4K @ 60Hz @ 4:2:0 as that is something Nvidia claims my generation or newer card should be able to do on HDMI 1.4 with the 340 drivers. What I was really bummed on was the fact that I can't get full chroma at 30Hz.

I believe that people have managed to get 4k@60 4:2:0, 4K@30 4:4:4 and 1080@120Hz but not with NVIDIA cards (or at least not all NVIDIA cards which should be able to do them) because of some kind of driver problem.

Quote:
On that note, is there any 4K content on Netflix other than House of Cards? I haven't been able to get it to go above 1080.

(Somebody asked about this in another thread, so I have a prepared answer ). There is an "UltraHD 4K" genre row in the browser, as pictured here. It starts out way down in the list but at some point spontaneously moves up to the top if you play something from it; it's just beneath my "Recently Watched" row now. Currently there are only 12 titles, comprised of 3 TV series (The Blacklist, Breaking Bad and House of Cards Season 2), 5 feature films (The Smurfs 2, Hitch, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Jerry Maguire and Philadelphia) and 4 "Moving Art" clips ("Flowers", "Forests", "Oceans" and "Deserts"). Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was just added this past week.

Of these I've only been impressed with the PQ of The Blacklist and The Smurfs 2, although the latter is so childish as to be essentially unwatchable (for me).

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post #6345 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 04:42 PM
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For those of you that use a sound bar with your Vizio P series tv do you run the hdmi video/audio through the sound bar or just use the audio out via optical cable?
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post #6346 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Only when watching in a pitch-black viewing environment...
I noticed blooming and poor black levels even in a somewhat dimly lit room when I auditioned two M49 units this Summer. Also, in addition to poorer black levels, IPS panels seem more prone to screen irregularities based upon my two M49 units this summer, my three M50 units from last year, such reports from some P55 owners and the black screen uniformity screen shots of IPS panels from rtings.com. I don't know who provides the M50 panels but they nailed it, my panel has almost perfect black uniformity (even better than the black uniformity screen shot of the P65 from rtings.com but similar in blackness). I knew then that this unit would fare very well for blooming. The M50 is not afraid of the dark in the slightest and blooming even from white test against a black background is minimal (even in a pitch black background).

You should be delighted with your P unit if the panel performs anything like my M50 and with 64/72 zones blooming should be even less noticeable.

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post #6347 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 07:02 PM
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So I was looking over this TV on Amazon in preparation for Black Friday and noticed there is one specific HDMI outlet for 4k 60Hz and another for HDMI ARC. I planned on hooking this TV up to my gaming HTPC with a GTX 680 and playing some of the less demanding games I have at 4k 60fps. But I also wanted it as an upgrade to my current Vizio 70 inch so that I could use the HDMI ARC function with Amazon and Netflix without having to switch inputs and activities on my Harmony remote. What was the reasoning for having the ARC function and 4k 60Hz on two separate HDMI inputs? This seems like a really stupid design decision to me if this is not due to some technical limitation and might be a deal breaker for me.

Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.
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post #6348 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 07:37 PM
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You can always ask
Vizio hasn't been discussed or looked into much. You should do a search in this thread for PC related maters as there are some limitations some of which have been discussed on the last page or so.


Sent from an system/360
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post #6349 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
You might want to consider what michaelscott's career has been and read the Nvidia comments B4 forming an opinion☺

I'm not so sure a GTX 650 TI is enough card for 4K /60 @ 4:4:4 anyway . I have a stronger R9 270x on one of my PC's and it will do 4K/30@ 4:4:4 but AFAIK it will not do 4K/60@ 4:4:4 on HDMI ofc the 650TI is a little dated (as video cards go ) maybe a stronger card would run at least 4K/30 at 4:4:4 or 4K/ 60 @ 4:2:2 or 4:4:4
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I believe that people have managed to get 4k@60 4:2:0, 4K@30 4:4:4 and 1080@120Hz but not with NVIDIA cards (or at least not all NVIDIA cards which should be able to do them) because of some kind of driver problem.
I'm not forming an opinion, I'm well aware of the issues plaguing HDMI 2.0 in products this year and the supposed choice between the lower bandwidth (10.2Gbps?) chipset WITH HDCP 2.2 OR the the (18Gbps?) chipset WITHOUT HDCP 2.2 manufacturer's have been tasked with--and what that choice means for color resolution and refresh rate. My point was chroma subsampling is not a huge deal for consumer computer use (e.g. watching videos, playing games, recreational browsing, etc..) and michael's comments (perhaps unintentionally) seemed to be one of those 4:4:4 or bust posts, blanket pooh-poohing the very idea of hooking a PC up to a "Television". Clearly this seems to be a software issue either with the Vizio FW or Nvidia's drivers and will most likely be fixed in the future (assuming it's even a problem with the 900 series GPU's and future cards, which have HDMI 2.0 AFAIK). I just wanted to point out a lot of people would probably be perfectly happy using one of these as a monitor if they fix whatever software issues people are apparently running into with certain Nvidia cards.

Last edited by Orta; 11-02-2014 at 08:17 PM.
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post #6350 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 10:29 PM
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Does 720p content and 1080p content look blown up or inferior to how it would look on a native 1080p set? That is my only concern at this point.
BB Canada has the 50" in stock, so I'm set for late Nov.
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post #6351 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 10:42 PM
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Does 720p content and 1080p content look blown up or inferior to how it would look on a native 1080p set? That is my only concern at this point.
BB Canada has the 50" in stock, so I'm set for late Nov.
It looks just as good to me. I haven't loaded 720p content, but I did watch a little Deep Space Nine. Seemed fine!
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post #6352 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 11:25 PM
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Does 720p content and 1080p content look blown up or inferior to how it would look on a native 1080p set? That is my only concern at this point.
BB Canada has the 50" in stock, so I'm set for late Nov.

It does a beautiful job of upconverting most content. Sometimes I pause video in amazement to examine it more closely looking for visible artifacts, never finding any. The only content that I've run across which seems a bit soft are a couple of 1080i TV series, being NCIS and NCIS LA (NCIS New Orleans is fine). Some other 1080i content on CBS is among the sharpest stuff, CSI being one of them. 720p60 and streamed 720p24 and 1080p24 are always crisp. And I'm routing everything through my AVR into HDMI 5 for the sake Game Low Latency mode; the television warns you that you won't get the best results sending 1080i through HDMI 5 (it won't display 480i at all and you can't play AR games on HDMI 5, no stretch or zoom).

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post #6353 of 17882 Old 11-02-2014, 11:47 PM
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It does a beautiful job of upconverting most content. Sometimes I pause video in amazement to examine it more closely looking for visible artifacts, never finding any. The only content that I've run across which seems a bit soft are a couple of 1080i TV series, being NCIS and NCIS LA (NCIS New Orleans is fine). Some other 1080i content on CBS is among the sharpest stuff, CSI being one of them. 720p60 and streamed 720p24 and 1080p24 are always crisp. And I'm routing everything through my AVR into HDMI 5 for the sake Game Low Latency mode; the television warns you that you won't get the best results sending 1080i through HDMI 5 (it won't display 480i at all and you can't play AR games on HDMI 5, no stretch or zoom).
Looks like I'm set then, considering the Wii U and PS4 both do 720 and 1080'p'. I won't be sending it any interlaced material, so...
Now it's just another waiting game until I get my next pay check towards the end of the month. sigh.
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post #6354 of 17882 Old 11-03-2014, 05:14 AM
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Looks like I'm set then, considering the Wii U and PS4 both do 720 and 1080'p'. I won't be sending it any interlaced material, so...
Now it's just another waiting game until I get my next pay check towards the end of the month. sigh.

I'm sending my new P70 1080i and 720p (ESPN, Fox, etc.) from my Directv DVR and the Vizio does a very good job in upscaling both of these.

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post #6355 of 17882 Old 11-03-2014, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
It does a beautiful job of upconverting most content. Sometimes I pause video in amazement to examine it more closely looking for visible artifacts, never finding any. The only content that I've run across which seems a bit soft are a couple of 1080i TV series, being NCIS and NCIS LA (NCIS New Orleans is fine). Some other 1080i content on CBS is among the sharpest stuff, CSI being one of them. 720p60 and streamed 720p24 and 1080p24 are always crisp. And I'm routing everything through my AVR into HDMI 5 for the sake Game Low Latency mode; the television warns you that you won't get the best results sending 1080i through HDMI 5 (it won't display 480i at all and you can't play AR games on HDMI 5, no stretch or zoom).
NCIS uses very soft focus and never takes advantage of full HD resolution (I've noticed that for years when viewing on 1080p displays).

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post #6356 of 17882 Old 11-03-2014, 07:06 AM
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how can you guys tell its being upscaled? I have the P60 everything does look nice but I cant really tell its being upscaled...
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post #6357 of 17882 Old 11-03-2014, 07:11 AM
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how can you guys tell its being upscaled? I have the P60 everything does look nice but I cant really tell its being upscaled...
If the source material is of a lower resolution (480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p) and the TV is set to 4K, then it's being upscaled. Or if you have a 1080p screen and it's set to 1080p, then anything less than 1080p is being upscaled.
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post #6358 of 17882 Old 11-03-2014, 07:18 AM
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tv set to 4k?

there is a option to tell it to upscale?

you sure it upscales everything? according to the site it only says 1080p

also seems like everything on tv (FiOS) is 1080i

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Last edited by Mack813; 11-03-2014 at 07:43 AM.
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post #6359 of 17882 Old 11-03-2014, 07:49 AM
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The TV's native resolution is 4K, so everything displayed on it has to be upscaled to 4K.
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post #6360 of 17882 Old 11-03-2014, 07:49 AM
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That sam's club ad for the 15th sealed the deal for me. I'll be getting the P60 instead of the P65. Hopefully I too win the panel lottery.
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