***Official 2014 Vizio P Series Owner's Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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***Official 2014 Vizio P Series Owner's Thread

(UPDATED 9/26/14)

======================================

LINKS TO PRE-REVIEWS OF 2014 VIZIO P SERIES:

http://televisions.reviewed.com/cont...essions-review

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/23/68...e-date-pricing

Vizio Officially Debuts P-Series LED-LCD UHDTVs

http://www.cnet.com/videos/vizio-p-s...er-4k-tv-look/

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ch-event/18055

======================================


First owner reports of the new Vizio P Series are starting to come in and this thread has been started to capture them.

Specs of the P Series are summarized below.

A first important discovery is that different sizes of the P Series are based on different panel types. Vizio did not make this clear within their specifications (and absolute shame on them for that :-( but the spec on viewing angle was a hint.


55" P Series has been confirmed to have an IPS LCD panel (so poor black level performance when viewing in a dark room).

70" P Series is confirmed to be based on a Sharp VA-type LCD panels (so ~5X better black levels). This is not yet confirmed but the reduced viewing angle spec of 176°/176° is a strong hint and more importantly, the early owner's of the 70" P Series express much greater satisfaction with the black levels than the one owner of the 55". This Sharp panel has a minor problem with perfect red calibration but most consider that it is not noticeable unless next to perfectly calibrated TV.

65" P Series is probably is based on a VA-type panel (but this is not yet confirmed). The 65" P has the same 178°/178° viewing angle as the 55" IPS panel but in the case of the 65" M Series, the panel has that same 178°/178° viewing angle spec but the panel has been confirmed by an owner to be VA-type. So the 65" P is probably VA-type like the 65" M (and probably both coming from AUO as has been rumored), but this is more of a wildcard than the 60" and 70" panels at this stage. It is also possible/likely that the 65" AUO panel does not suffer from the same minor red chroma defect as the 60" and 70" panels.


60" P Series has been confirmed as VA type and is almost certainly another Sharp panel like the 70" panel (meaning that it also suffers from the same minor red chroma defect as the 70") but the fact that the 60" is a Sharp panel and suffers from this same minor defect has not yet been confirmed.

55" P Series has been confirmed to have an IPS LCD panel (so poor black level performance when viewing in a dark room). Calibrated color on this TV is excellent (see posts #2 and #3 below) and it appears to be a winner for bright-room viewing but a dud for dark-room viewing. Local dimming improves the black level performance when viewing in a dark room but in this case the viewing angle is severely reduced (which undcuts the primary advantage of IPS panels over VA panels). Anyone looking for a TV for brightroom viewing and needing the widest possible viewing angle that an LCD can provide may want to consider the 55" over all of the other P Series sizes. Anyone not needing the widest possible viewing angle or for whom dark-room viewing is a priority should probably avoid the 55" in favor of one of the other sizes (which are all VA-based).


50" P Series has the same viewing angle spec to suggest it will be VA-type, but that is an unknown at this stage.


IT APPEARS THAT IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE BEST FALD LED/LCD BLACK LEVELS AND THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU THAN THE WIDES VIEWING ANGLES, YOU SHOULD FOCUS ON THE 70" or 60" VISIO P SERIES TVS ONLY (AND PROBABLY ALSO THE 65" AND 50", TO BE CONFIRMED) - the 55" P SERIES IS A DUD AS FAR AS DARK-ROOM VIEWING AND SHOULD BE AVOIDED!!!!!!!



2014 Vizio P Series (common specs)
-V6 Six-core processor: Quad-core GPU + Dual-core CPU
-HD to UHD Upscale Engine
-Spatial Scaling Engine
-Full Array Local Dimming Backlight
-Ultra HD - 3840x2160
-Refresh Rate 120Hz
-Clear Action 960
-Active Pixel Tuning
-Dynamic Contrast Ratio 50 M to 1

P502ui-B1 $1000
-10 bit VA-type LCD panel (Sharp?)
-64 Local Dimming Zones
-176°/176° viewing angle
-?? ms refresh rate
-?? Nits
-?? ms input lag
-153w
-38.8lbs


P552ui-B2 $1400
-10 bit IPS-type LCD panel (LG?)
-64 Local Dimming Zones
-178°/178° viewing angle
-?? ms refresh rate
-?? Nits
-?? ms input lag
-107.7w
-46lbs

P602ui-B3 $1700
-10 bit Sharp VA-type LCD panel (Sharp to be confirmed)
-64 Local Dimming Zones
-176°/176° viewing angle
-?? ms refresh rate
-?? Nits
-?? ms input lag
-132.8w
-56lbs

P652ui-B2 $2200
-10 bit VA-type LCD panel (AUO?)
-64 Local Dimming Zones
-178°/178° viewing angle
-?? ms refresh rate
-?? Nits
-?? ms input lag
-307.6w (?)
-57.4lbs


P702ui-B3 $2500
-10 bit Sharp VA-type LCD panel
-72 Local Dimming Zones
-176°/176° viewing angle
-?? ms refresh rate
-?? Nits
-?? ms input lag
-133.1w
-70.55lbs

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post #2 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 10:21 AM
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55"P

Basic setup

Black: On/Off Contrast, ANSI Contrast, 16 point uniformity measurements with a Klein K10-A colorimeter

NEW 9/19/2014

First impressions:

CANICES-3 - Made in Mexico

Cons:

My particular TV has light leakage. Two areas in the lower right edge and one on the bottom right edge. It's physical, and unlike edge lit flashlighting. These discrepancies are about 2 inches long and 1/8 inch wide. For lack of a better color description I'll just call it "sans beer urine".

The factory "Calibrated" mode is way off. The proper basic changes will be in post #2.

The CMS (Color Management System) is substandard. The Luminance controls work well but Saturation and Hue are not doing their jobs. EDIT: The CMS works well at 75% Saturation vs 100%. Check post number 3.

Black levels. It isn't a Sharp Elite for sure. At the best settings configuration I've found so far, MLL is .005 FtL. A Panasonic VT60 measures .0014. Hopefully the Reference series will yield much deeper blacks - but if the CMS is the same as the P, trust me, "reference" will be a misnomer. More - a full 0 luminance black pattern shuts the LEDs off. This will only look good with real content when the movie fades to black. I have a 2K pattern that lights 1 pixel in each corner More like 20-30 pixels on this set. Black level is raised to .395 FtL. Turn FALD off it reads .186. Continue by turning Clear Action on it reads .13. Obviously this pattern, which works so well with the Samsung F8000 (which also shuts off all light when asked for 0 luminance), is a no go for the Vizio. More later when I find better patterns to experiment with.

Pros:

With a basic setup that can be done with a disc like the free AVSHD plus a little help you'll find here, the picture is quite good.

GOOD NEWS FOR GAMERS (I think). Lag in HDMI inputs other than number 5 (4K @60 Hz) was a mediocre 44ms in the Game Mode with the Game Low Latency set to on - 100 with it off. However, in HDMI 5, latency was an astonishing 0.4ms. Hopefully the display processing isn't somehow fooling my Leo Bodnar meter but this TV might just be the holy grail for gamers.... EDIT: After many tests it seems there is some sort of synch issue with HDMI 5 unless I power the Vizio with the Bodnar already sending it's 1080p 60Hz signal. When doing that I get 16.7 msec lag in both the Game mode and a Cal mode I set up for myself. That's still good news if the meter is correct.

No clouding or streaking like edge lits.

More later.

opps, forgot - The setup I have is strickly Rec.709 (TV Legal), that is, everything below video 17 and above video 235 is clipped. - More coming in the morning in post 2 re: basic setup with 2 point Grayscale included.

Also, screen is semi Matte. It's full of water stains from a crappy factory cleanup.. I use Perfect Glass to clean it up.




Motion - Smooth Motion Effect > Low works very well. Higher SME settings or turning Clear Action > ON offered no improvement.

2 point Grayscale - usually the best average result for settings copiers

Basic setup:

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I started with Picture Mode > Calibrated. It was far too bright, twice as bright as required for a day light illuminated viewing environment.
New settings (see pix)
Back light = 60 FtL
Brightness = just visible video 17
Contrast = anything higher did NOT increase luminance
Sharpness - don't get me started - digital displays DO NOT NEED A SHARPNESS CONTROL. It's marketing BS.

The Color Tuner offset and gain control IS the 2 point Grayscale control. It was was quite good from the factory AFTER the the basics were set correctly.


Results of the basic setup plus 2p GS

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post #3 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 10:22 AM
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Calibration

EDIT: Due to the discovery dicussed in post 818 I now recommend the Brightness setting be adjusted to 51 in both Day and Night modes.

Some quick info before I post complete Day & Night settings. My 55" P has CMS problems when attempting to calibrate at 100% Saturation. Today I did a quick calibration using 75% Sat as the target and 75% Luminance. It worked as a CMS should and tracking looks good both above and below the 75% Rec.709 level. Here are some screen shots:

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Day Mode

57 Foot Lamberts
Gamma 2.2

Basic Settings
back light 42
brightness 51
contrast 48
color 50
tint 0
sharpness 0

Color Temp > Normal

2 point Grayscale and Color Management System

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11 point GrayScale

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Results Graphs

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Night Mode
35 Foot Lamberts
gamma BT. 1886

Like the Day Mode, the Night mode calibrates easily when using 75% Sat/75%Luminance



Edit: Change Brightness setting from 52 to 51.

Edit: Color Temp > Normal

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3D LUT Calibration and how it compares to internal controls only
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Last edited by buzzard767; 09-28-2014 at 03:09 PM.
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post #4 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 10:36 AM
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I have some work to get done for the next bit, but will try my best to add some photos and more details as I have time today
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post #5 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy_McClure View Post
I have some work to get done for the next bit, but will try my best to add some photos and more details as I have time today
If you have a means of checking input lag, that would be awesome. Provided the set has low input lag and looks good with 1080p content, I'm in for one. Just a matter of deciding between 65" and 70" (I'll wait for feedback as to which has the superior panel).
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post #6 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 10:56 AM
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nice....it would be awesome when the sets are finally released.

question for those who have costco or sam's membership...can we just buy the square trade warranty without buying tv at costco and sam's?

thanks.
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Originally Posted by krblgc View Post
nice....it would be awesome when the sets are finally released.

question for those who have costco or sam's membership...can we just buy the square trade warranty without buying tv at costco and sam's?

thanks.
yes (for Costco)..It will cost slightly more (3-5%) however if you are not a member...
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post #8 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 11:13 AM
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Blight bleed, black quality

Please report how a dark screen looks with no source playing and then a dark scene. Interested in light bleed, light clouding, black uniformity.
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post #9 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 11:14 AM
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Hopefully rtings.com will get a review up soon . It's good that a thread is started for the P model now they won't be orphans here ☺☺

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I don't know how to go about testing this other than the photography method compared to a CRT but I'd also be curious to see the latency when fed a 1080p 120 Hz signal (unless of course the Leo Bodnar can actually output that for testing). Even harder would be when fed a native 4K 60 Hz signal (since I don't know of a CRT that can even accept that). Of course given Vizio's 'high velocity mode' marketing blurbs, one would hope that it's capable of yielding nice low-latency numbers but that's by no means a guarantee it actually does.
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post #11 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Googer View Post
I don't know how to go about testing this other than the photography method compared to a CRT but I'd also be curious to see the latency when fed a 1080p 120 Hz signal (unless of course the Leo Bodnar can actually output that for testing). Even harder would be when fed a native 4K 60 Hz signal (since I don't know of a CRT that can even accept that). Of course given Vizio's 'high velocity mode' marketing blurbs, one would hope that it's capable of yielding nice low-latency numbers but that's by no means a guarantee it actually does.
The Bodnar outputs 1080p 60hz. There are no options.

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post #12 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 11:25 AM
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Cool Thanks.........

Really appreciate you guys getting this going and particularly Troy for stepping up to meet the challenge!

Alas, no "P's" in Florida yet.

Have fun.

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post #13 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
The Bodnar outputs 1080p 60hz. There are no options.
That should be good enough for PS4 and XB1 consoles. A lot of people purchased this set sight unseen because of the price and the performance of the M series. Hopefully the reviews will show that was a wise decision.
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The Bodnar outputs 1080p 60hz. There are no options.
I'll be happy if someone uses the Bodnar tester with game mode on and off and posts the figures. My main concern regarding lag is for console gaming, and and this generation of consoles is only putting out 1080p 60Hz maximum anyway.

I emailed Vizio requesting that they check in with their hardware engineers and provide some official figures for input lag with 1080p and 4K sources. I hope they'll oblige instead of pointing to their "high velocity mode" marketing fluff.

It's crazy to me that stuff like fake/inflated refresh rates are constantly marketed, but nobody discloses their input lag. If only manufacturers were transparent about that information, there might be some useful competition in the market so people might actually have a choice or two for a low latency display.
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post #15 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWells55 View Post
I'll be happy if someone uses the Bodnar tester with game mode on and off and posts the figures. My main concern regarding lag is for console gaming, and and this generation of consoles is only putting out 1080p 60Hz maximum anyway.
The P has both a Game Mode AND a Game Low Latency on/off switch. I'll be testing everything.

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post #16 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 11:42 AM
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The Bodnar outputs 1080p 60hz. There are no options.
That's what I thought. Hopefully a high-bandwidth / HDMI 2.0 version capable of outputting 1080p 120 Hz and 4k at various refresh rates is in the works.
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Originally Posted by DWells55 View Post
I'll be happy if someone uses the Bodnar tester with game mode on and off and posts the figures. My main concern regarding lag is for console gaming, and and this generation of consoles is only putting out 1080p 60Hz maximum anyway.



I emailed Vizio requesting that they check in with their hardware engineers and provide some official figures for input lag with 1080p and 4K sources. I hope they'll oblige instead of pointing to their "high velocity mode" marketing fluff.



It's crazy to me that stuff like fake/inflated refresh rates are constantly marketed, but nobody discloses their input lag. If only manufacturers were transparent about that information, there might be some useful competition in the market so people might actually have a choice or two for a low latency display.

Good luck most manufacturers don't have those numbers and if they do usually don't reveal them. You'll most likely have to wait for someone to test it. The reason they don't publish them is that the gaming market while "big" isn't big enough to specifically market to as of yet. Most consumers don't care or know what input lag is.


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Really looking forward to comments and first impressions from owners, especially now that this set will be available at BB in Canada.

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The P has both a Game Mode AND a Game Low Latency on/off switch. I'll be testing everything.
Awesome, thanks!

It sounds like Vizio actually may have made a conscious effort. Hopefully game mode is just picture settings (probably cooler color temp, pumped up brightness and contrast) and game low latency is for actually tweaking the scaling/processing. I would love to be able to have game mode off and play with calibrated color/picture and still get low latency. Gaming on a THX-calibrated Panasonic VT25 plasma spoiled me.
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Amazon charged my card for the 70 inch P, probably a good sign that they are shipping out soon.

My ES8000 settings, calibrated with an i1D3 and calman:
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post #21 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 01:04 PM
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ordered one today...........not being delivered until Oct 16..... cries..... Why Amazon why

update, cancelled original order and re-ordered and now it states Wednesday September 24th.... HAPPY CAMPER
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SCREW Best Buy's stupid web site and how it makes you go through the entire ordering process before it tells you that the item is in high demand and has been removed from the cart. Just take it off of your F&*@#ING site already if you can't offer it...

If it wasn't for the fact that I get 5% off Discover Cash Back + 10% off coupon + 3% off gift cards + Best Buy Rewards, I'd just buy it from Costco and be done with it..
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post #23 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 01:12 PM
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fafrd;
You beat me to it. I was hoping Troy would start the thread since he was the first reported owner.

Troy_McClure;
Can you try to take some solid gray field photos (in manual iris mode) so show the backlight distribution?
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Originally Posted by drvelocity2 View Post
SCREW Best Buy's stupid web site and how it makes you go through the entire ordering process before it tells you that the item is in high demand and has been removed from the cart. Just take it off of your F&*@#ING site already if you can't offer it...

If it wasn't for the fact that I get 5% off Discover Cash Back + 10% off coupon + 3% off gift cards + Best Buy Rewards, I'd just buy it from Costco and be done with it..
The only reason I'm buying from Best buy is for the free haul away. My 57" RPTV weight is at least 300 lbs.
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post #25 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvelocity2 View Post
SCREW Best Buy's stupid web site and how it makes you go through the entire ordering process before it tells you that the item is in high demand and has been removed from the cart. Just take it off of your F&*@#ING site already if you can't offer it...

If it wasn't for the fact that I get 5% off Discover Cash Back + 10% off coupon + 3% off gift cards + Best Buy Rewards, I'd just buy it from Costco and be done with it..
I have a discover card for 5% off but where did you get a 10% off coupon for BB?
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post #26 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 01:26 PM
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Rtings;
https://www.rtings.com/

is lining up tests for October. There are six models, only four will be bought (these are not loaned to him, he has to purchase them just like you and me);
Three Samsung,
One LG,
One Sony
and one Vizio 'P'.

Nothing is finalized yet. The ones with the greatest number of requests get the nod. Just in case any one here might be interested in him testing another Vizio.
Please put your request in.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #27 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 01:31 PM
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This is so depressing. Got word back from Vizio that the 50" has no current release date and they have no idea when it will be out. WTF!?
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post #28 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 01:38 PM
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I ordered the 70" model from Amazon when TV first showed up on their site. My order has moved to the shipping now stage. YES!!!!!!! This caught me by surprise so now I have to hurry and find a stand for it.


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post #29 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 02:03 PM
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There doesn't seem to be much coordination between availability at different retailers. I ordered the 55 inch model in store at Best Buy several days ago, and was quoted a tentative pickup date of 9/30. However, since then earliest available delivery date available online has moved from anywhere from 9/23 to 9/19. Of course, that's reliant on if you were actually able to place an order online without the TV being removed from your cart :/. That's in contrast to the Amazon pre-orders, which have delivery dates anywhere from 9/23 into mid-October.

Anyways, I am hoping that my set will show up in store sometime before 9/30, possibly around the time that others are supposed to be getting their earlier pre-orders delivered (9/23-25). In the meantime I will be watching this thread to get feedback on the sets that have arrived. I am particularly interested in the latency, since this set will serve as a gaming TV for a PS4 in addition to the usual Blu-Ray/broadcast TV duties.
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post #30 of 2763 Old 09-17-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgn95 View Post
The only reason I'm buying from Best buy is for the free haul away. My 57" RPTV weight is at least 300 lbs.

If it works you could have donated it to Salvation Army. They also do free haul away.


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