which TV's are capable of 4K/60Hz 4:4:4 on PC with nvidia 900 series GPU - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 205 Old 09-24-2014, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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which TV's are capable of 4K/60Hz 4:4:4 on PC with nvidia 900 series GPU

Hi all-

With the recently released GTX 970/980 graphics cards having HDMI 2.0 output, we should be able to display 4K at 60Hz with 4:4:4 sampling from a PC. I am currently looking for a 4K TV to double as my new PC display, but have seen some disconcerting and sometimes contradictory reports about this setup working with various 4K sets.

Has anyone been able to confirm working 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 on any of the 4K TV's with the 900 series cards? If so, I would greatly appreciate any info you can share. Details such as general image quality, text clarity, motion blur, input lag, and any special settings needed would also be very helpful.

Thank you!
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post #2 of 205 Old 09-24-2014, 10:10 PM
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I'm very interested too.

I pretty much wasted an entire day yesterday trying various settings to get my Samsung HU 8550 working at 4:4:4. So far I haven't had any luck, 60 Hz works but it's obviously stuck in reduced chroma mode (either 4:2:0 or 4:2:2). I have the GTX 980 reference model.
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post #3 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:10 AM
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i think these ones:
  • Panasonic 65AX800
  • Panasonic 58AX800
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post #4 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 07:25 AM
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My LG 55UB850T works at 4K at 60Hz with full colour via HDMI. Note that if you have a LG TV, the HDMI 2.0 port is HDMI 3, plugging it into other ports will only give you either 30Hz or that colour loss.

I currently own a MSI GTX 970 and it does have HDMI 2.0 support despite the specs at the MSI site saying it only supports HDMI 1.4a, an error at MSI's part.

Last edited by ChronoDetector; 09-25-2014 at 07:33 AM.
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post #5 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x3sphere View Post
I'm very interested too.

I pretty much wasted an entire day yesterday trying various settings to get my Samsung HU 8550 working at 4:4:4. So far I haven't had any luck, 60 Hz works but it's obviously stuck in reduced chroma mode (either 4:2:0 or 4:2:2). I have the GTX 980 reference model.
you have to turn on uhd colour in settings
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post #6 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 10:04 AM
 
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i saw the hu 9000 65" work 4:4:4 1080/60P 12bit
4k only 8 bit like ax 800

hu 9000 above Panasonic .
Contras , upscaling Samsung's impressive
Panasonic brings sometimes more color but unnatural
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post #7 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoDetector View Post
My LG 55UB850T works at 4K at 60Hz with full colour via HDMI. Note that if you have a LG TV, the HDMI 2.0 port is HDMI 3, plugging it into other ports will only give you either 30Hz or that colour loss.

I currently own a MSI GTX 970 and it does have HDMI 2.0 support despite the specs at the MSI site saying it only supports HDMI 1.4a, an error at MSI's part.
Thanks for the info!

Do you know if this model is the same as the 55UB8500 in the US? How is the text quality and input lag?

It's good to know the HDMI 2.0 output on these cards is working on some sets at least. I was originally intending to get a Vizio P series, but doesn't seem like anyone has gotten it to work with this setup yet.
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post #8 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by player002 View Post
you have to turn on uhd colour in settings
Does not work. The issue in my case seems to be that renaming the input to PC does nothing in 4K@60Hz mode.

Other people have gotten it to work apparently, but on the 65". Maybe it's a firmware issue specific to the 55", I haven't seen anyone else report success yet with this model.
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post #9 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 12:36 PM
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the new vizio p series have hdmi 2.0

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post #10 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by benes View Post
I have a GTX 980 and can't get proper 60Hz on my Sony XBR55X850A. The colors and text are screwy.
I believe that according to the sony specs, the 2014 XBR TVs only do 4:2:0 @ 60 Hz in 4K. That was per a manual someone posted recently.

Check the specs in the manual. You may be disappointed.
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post #11 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by benes View Post
Help me understand. When I'm using any other mode or when I had a cheap LCD TV in the past what was the video card outputting to it? 4:2:2?

I never thought a TV went above 4:2:0 input to begin with.
usually even cheap TVs can output full RGB/4:4:4 via 1080p. This is because the bandwidth required fits easily within the HDMI 1.4 spec.

However, HDMI 2.0 spec was only recently finalized, so a lot of mfrs that claim to have HDMI 2.0, had gimped HDMI 2.0, or HDMI 2.0 "lite". I think sony was one of those mfrs.

Full HDMI 2.0 should support 18 Gbps, which is the bandwidth required to output 4K 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 chroma. Samsung has this capability when you enable "HDMI UHD Color", and apparently LG sets that were recently upgraded to HDMI 2.0 also have this capability. Don't think anyone with a sony set has confirmed 4K 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 yet.

The reason you are seeing fuzzy text is because your TV is achieving 4K 60 Hz at reduced chroma. Read this to see what visual differences this causes:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8191/n...upport-kind-of
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post #12 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:07 PM
 
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LG sets that were recently upgraded to HDMI 2.0 also have this capability. Don't think anyone with a sony set has confirmed 4K 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 yet.
No such thing as 4: 4: 4 4K 50/60HZ in hdmi 2.0
ONLY 4:2:0 4:2:2 10/12 BIT this again Theoretically
HDMI 2.0 - or NOT HDMI 2.0... or HDMI 2.0 "lite"...

DisplayPort 1.3 4:4:4 10/12 BIT 4K 50/60HZ and 120hz +4K3D
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post #13 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6311 View Post
No such thing as 4: 4: 4 4K 50/60HZ in hdmi 2.0
ONLY 4:2:0 4:2:2 10/12 BIT this again Theoretically
HDMI 2.0 - or NOT HDMI 2.0... or HDMI 2.0 "lite"...

DisplayPort 1.3 4:4:4 10/12 BIT 4K 50/60HZ and 120hz +4K3D
We're talking 8-bit here.

4:4:4 8-bit with 4K 60Hz is absolutely possible in HDMI 2.0.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...i_2_0_faq.aspx

Users on this forum have confirmed this.
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post #14 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 6311 View Post
No such thing as 4: 4: 4 4K 50/60HZ in hdmi 2.0
ONLY 4:2:0 4:2:2 10/12 BIT this again Theoretically
HDMI 2.0 - or NOT HDMI 2.0... or HDMI 2.0 "lite"...

DisplayPort 1.3 4:4:4 10/12 BIT 4K 50/60HZ and 120hz +4K3D
HDMI 2.0 does support 4:4:4 at 60Hz in 4K. It even says so if you look at the link you posted, albeit only in 8 bit color. Only a couple very specialized applications will use greater than 8 bit color on a PC anyway, so this is not a problem.
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post #15 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jacoro1 View Post
Thanks for the info!

Do you know if this model is the same as the 55UB8500 in the US? How is the text quality and input lag?

It's good to know the HDMI 2.0 output on these cards is working on some sets at least. I was originally intending to get a Vizio P series, but doesn't seem like anyone has gotten it to work with this setup yet.
All LG XXUB8500 series seems to support 4:4:4 on HDMI port #3 . Google "49UB8500 manual" and click on the akamai URL and search for 4:4:4 within the PDF file.

I've also seen a couple of people in the forums claiming that 4:4:4 was achieved. The only drawback from the a review was that the input lag was about 64ms even in game mode (non gaming mode 80+ms) but I would like hear directly from the users how it actually feels moving their mouse/controller..
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post #16 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ChronoDetector View Post
My LG 55UB850T works at 4K at 60Hz with full colour via HDMI. Note that if you have a LG TV, the HDMI 2.0 port is HDMI 3, plugging it into other ports will only give you either 30Hz or that colour loss.

I currently own a MSI GTX 970 and it does have HDMI 2.0 support despite the specs at the MSI site saying it only supports HDMI 1.4a, an error at MSI's part.
Could you tell us about the input lag? I heard from a review that the input lag is around 64ms even in gaming mode. How does it actually feel and what games do you play on it?

For example, on Seiki 39 inch 4K TVs if you don't flash the firmware with 50 inch versions, the input lag was so bad that it annoyed a lot of people and unbearable for some but with the 50 inch firmware the input lag was mostly gone.
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post #17 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Threefiddie View Post
the new vizio p series have hdmi 2.0
Do they list which HDMI 2.0 protocols are supported? Just stating that is has HDMI 2.0 could mean anything.
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post #18 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Do they list which HDMI 2.0 protocols are supported? Just stating that is has HDMI 2.0 could mean anything.
well 2.0 is support for 4k 60hz sooo oand new 900 series cards have 2.0... and it says 4k 60hz right on the input, check the pics

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post #19 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Threefiddie View Post
the new vizio p series have hdmi 2.0
I haven't heard of anyone getting it to work with the new cards though. If anyone has gotten it to work please let me know and I'll run out and buy one!
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post #20 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 02:22 PM
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because the tv and the card just came out...but no reason it shouldn't. pc people typically don't run out and buy a 4k tv when there are 4k monitors and 144hz 1440p gsync monitors now

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post #21 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 02:30 PM
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From looking at this thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1834329

The Vizios are not working @ 4K/60 Hz. No output apparently.

So far it looks like only the newer LGs are giving true 4:4:4 output, the Samsung's for me and others work in 60Hz but at reduced chroma. Same with the 2013 Sony sets. Not sure about the 2014 lineup.
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post #22 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Threefiddie View Post
because the tv and the card just came out...but no reason it shouldn't. pc people typically don't run out and buy a 4k tv when there are 4k monitors and 144hz 1440p gsync monitors now
There have been at least a few people on various boards that bought the P series as a monitor for this particular card and have been unable to get a signal at 4K using the HDMI 2.0 port. A large 4K TV for $1000 is quite appealing as a PC display, especially one that can do a 120Hz input when at 1080P. Current 4K PC monitors are so small that it's very difficult to read text without font scaling, which can create other issues.
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post #23 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jacoro1 View Post
There have been at least a few people on various boards that bought the P series as a monitor for this particular card and have been unable to get a signal at 4K using the HDMI 2.0 port. A large 4K TV for $1000 is quite appealing as a PC display, especially one that can do a 120Hz input when at 1080P. Current 4K PC monitors are so small that it's very difficult to read text without font scaling, which can create other issues.
with 900 series? and yeah i know 4k monitor scaling sucks

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post #24 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Do they list which HDMI 2.0 protocols are supported? Just stating that is has HDMI 2.0 could mean anything.
Like HDMI 2.0, 4:2:2 or worse..
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post #25 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by x3sphere View Post
From looking at this thread: hardforum/showthread.php?t=1834329

The Vizios are not working @ 4K/60 Hz. No output apparently.

So far it looks like only the newer LGs are giving true 4:4:4 output, the Samsung's for me and others work in 60Hz but at reduced chroma. Same with the 2013 Sony sets. Not sure about the 2014 lineup.
That sucks.. I guess I have to wait for Seiki Pro with Display Ports..... BUT.. it will be released in 2015 Q1
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post #26 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Threefiddie View Post
well 2.0 is support for 4k 60hz sooo oand new 900 series cards have 2.0... and it says 4k 60hz right on the input, check the pics
At what color sampling and bit depth? 1.4 can do 4k at 60fps if the bandwidth is pushed to the maximum of 10.2 Gbps, so technically that could be called HDMI 2.0 because it's at the lower end of the HDMI 2.0 spec. It would be nice if the mfrs actually listed the supported HDMI 2.0 specs (bit depth, color sampling, bandwidth, CEC Extensions, etc). HDMI 2.0 compatibility may be an issue if the new devices coming out that are "HDMI 2.0" don't support the same protocols. They'll just fall back to the least common denominator. I'm just a little dubious of the HDMI 2.0 claims at this point in time because of the chipset availability and what some mfrs have already claimed is HDMI 2.0. I hope that changes with the 2015 sets or even some of the late 2014's.
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post #27 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 03:04 PM
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good questions. hdmi 2.0 on the 900 cards is definitely 4k 60hz support though

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post #28 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Threefiddie View Post
with 900 series? and yeah i know 4k monitor scaling sucks
Yes with GTX 970/980 cards. Hopefully it's just a firmware issue that will be resolved since otherwise it seems like the perfect PC/gaming display... very low input lag on the HDMI 2.0 port.
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post #30 of 205 Old 09-25-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by benes View Post
Thanks. I suspected the 4:2:0 limit would be a problem when I saw it in the firmware update specs. I was hoping the video cards could get around it somehow. But since they can't I will be returning the 980s as this was my only reason for upgrading.

I know this is early adopter stuff which is why I had no plans to get into 4K so early. It was only an emergency purchase when my main display exploded on me last year. And buying another 1080p would be even more out of date. I've been able to watch 4k movies with the Sony server for the last year which is why I went with them.

I'll wait until all this mess is sorted out before getting a full 4k setup.
It does suck. Unfortunately looks like the samsung is having problems with this too, even though they apparently DO support full chroma at 60Hz. The good thing about samsung is that if for whatever reason it doesn't support full HDMI 2.0, it can easily be upgraded by replacing the one connect box, which should get an update next year.
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