Samsung un55f8000 vs. vizio p-series - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 10-16-2014, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Samsung un55f8000 vs. vizio p-series

Hi everyone . New to the forum and have a question. I recently purchased the Samsung mentioned in the title from best buy as an open box item for 1000$. After running across the p- series
for nearly the same price I'm started to think I should consider going to the p-series instead . Any opinions on why I should or shouldn't ? I am looking for the best picture quality possible . Do you think other than in 4k the vizio will compare to the standard 1080p of the samsung?
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post #2 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 06:35 AM
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Hi,
Samsung UN55F8000 is the older model from Samsung from 2013 lineup, the newer one is Samsung UN55H7150 for almost the same specs, You can check the difference between those two TVs here:http://www.hdtvvs.com/samsung-un55h7150-vs-un55f8000/
Vizio P-Series is 4K UHD TV. It's a good choice if you are looking for 4K TV. While Vizio is lower in price, you should understand that Samsung is better in term of Smart Features. But if you really want a 4K ready TV then Vizio P552ui-B2 is a good choice for lower budget 55-Inch 4K TV. You can check out Samsung UN55HU6950 for the "Samsung Version" of 55-Inch entry level 4K UHD TV. It's a good option for you as well.
Check out the differences betwen Samsung UN55HU6950 and Vizio P552ui-B2 here: http://www.hdtvversus.com/samsung-un...p552ui-b2.html
Hope that can help you.
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post #3 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 06:42 AM
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The P series is 4k and it also has Full Array Local Dimming. What that means is it's going to have the best contrast and black levels of any LED on the market. There's also been a few side by side comparisons with the f8500 (last good plasma) and the P series has better blacks than even that.

So yes, you should probably take the samsung back and get the P series.
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post #4 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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My only concern is the picture quality of the TV I can care less about hand gestures,voice control, or even 3D. My only concern with the vizio is whether or not it will provide better picture quality than my Samsung while viewing blu-ray 1080p content . Or will it only be better viewing during 4k seeing as the Samsung doent support 4k. Appreciate the help guys thus far
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post #5 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 12:59 PM
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I had planned on getting the 70" Vizio P for several months leading up to its release, but after following its thread closely, there were a few issues that pushed me to get the 75" Samsung F8000.

I have no idea where Furad is getting his info, but the measured black level of the Vizio is lighter than the Samsung, and both are lighter than the Samsung plasma. This has been verified by calibrators on this forum as well as rtings.com

The colors on the Samsung are more accurate - the Vizio has orange tinted reds that can't be corrected.

480 and 1080 content looks better on the Samsung - less upconversion taking place - and though not confirmed, I'd have to imagine the processing chipset used in the F8000, which was their flagship 1080p model, is better than the one used in the Vizio. It is going to take a long time for 4k to become mainstream - in the meanwhile, I wanted the best pq for my blurays, dvds, and cable watching. By the time 4k is mainstream, better display technologies will exist.

Motion on the Vizio's seems to come up in that thread - a lot of owners don't use the backlight strobing feature because it makes things looks worse. On the Samsung it works great.

Reliability on the Vizios seems to be very spotty - following that thread, it seems like one out of every five owners has had to return their set at least once.

Last, and least important to me, the Samsung F8000 is just so darn sexy looking. The bezel is thinner than the Vizio and the curved, chrome stand is minimalist and sturdy.
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post #6 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input. I would have to agtee with you on the looks of the samsung. I have mine wall mounted and its like a picture frame. I couldn't believe it was covered in metal and it's taken them this long to incorporate that into their smartphones lol. Watching a movie on it last night I resliced that I was very happy with it I just wanted to make sure I was getting the most I could for my money . I read an article on cnet that had some suggested calibrations and suggested to turn off all picture aids. I wasn't very pleased with those calI. And after playing around with some diff. Settings I finally have it tuned in the way I like it. The cnet calibrations were just really really dull to me.
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post #7 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 01:41 PM
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I have a P60 side by side with the F8000 right now - here

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post #8 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 01:47 PM
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much more here

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post #9 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 01:51 PM
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I started with member buzzard's settings, then adjusted from there with my eyes and calibration patterns. I won't post all my settings here, but I use movie mode with dynamic contrast at medium, smart led at standard, color temp is warm 1, blur reduction at 10, dejudder at 6, and smooth motion is on. I had to back off green a bit in the reds and yellows. I like my backlight at 6 or 7 and gamma at -1.
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post #10 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 05:43 PM
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Be aware that the Vizio 55 inch P-series uses a IPS panel while all of the other models in the P-series do not. As a result the 55 inch supports wider viewing angles but it has poorer contrast, with higher black levels, than the other models in the P-series.

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post #11 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furad View Post
The P series is 4k and it also has Full Array Local Dimming. What that means is it's going to have the best contrast and black levels of any LED on the market. There's also been a few side by side comparisons with the f8500 (last good plasma) and the P series has better blacks than even that.

So yes, you should probably take the samsung back and get the P series.
I really cant imagine the P series holding a candle to an F8500 on many levels

that is an apples and oranges comparison

Unless the OP just HAD to have 4K...I think I would pay a little more and a 60" Samsung F8500

Its vastly better Tv than any LED on the market now...if you can live without 4K

The most recent value electronics shootout speaks to that


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post #12 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
I really cant imagine the P series holding a candle to an F8500 on many levels

that is an apples and oranges comparison

Unless the OP just HAD to have 4K...I think I would pay a little more and a 60" Samsung F8500

Its vastly better Tv than any LED on the market now...if you can live without 4K

The most recent value electronics shootout speaks to that


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From someone in the P series thread that bought both to see which was better -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankness View Post
Update to my P60 vs F8500 showdown...

If you have followed this thread you would know that I'm running Comcrap through a Win8.1 Media PC, EVGA 970GTX. I ran something in between Googer's and Buzz's settings along with some personal tweaks to get colors looking decent for my eye. I've bounced between HDMI inputs and between 4k/60Hz-1080P/60-1080P/120 - but for the sake of comparison I've been solely on the P60 HDMI 5 and F8500 HMDI1 pushing 1080P/60Hz. My set is in our great room that has massive 15' tall windows facing south and getting fairly direct sun most of the day. I have black-out drapes, but they are never closed during the the day. Many will also recall my issues with motion and sports on the P60; I can say that I have see *zero* issues since I bounced some ideas off Cedric w/ rtings and switched to using GLL. All of the below have the P60 black detail set to low, CA on, and everything else off...

I followed Buzz's input last night and tweaked out the F8500 and I have to say that it looked really good. Compared to the P60, I was really going back and forth. I'm going to outline my experience in hopes that it provides some insight for others, please read and don't take the following initial observations out of context. My initial list of pros/cons:
P60 initial pros:
- Extremely bright. I think you can put this set outside in direct sunlight and still see it.
- Great shadow detail and, seriously, the blacks are BLACK.
- 4k. Really, really looks fantastic.

P60 initial cons:
- Slight haze on most feeds when compared to the plasma at night.
- Some coloring looks dull. Green turf on football fields was muted is really the best explanation I can give it and where it stood out most when looking at both side by side.
- Black crush via Blu-Ray at times
- Off-angle viewing dims the picture
- If you watch for the dimming, you can catch it occasionally turning the backlights off

F8500 pros:
- Colors 'popped' in comparison.
- Off-angle viewing is superb.
- 3d. I have kids, they think it is cool

F8500 cons:
- Black isn't black compared to the P60. I can see an ever so slight glow to the plasma.
- Best rated plasma for bright rooms - BAH! It is completely washed out during the day with the drapes open.
- Personal con - I would have to 'adjust' some sheetrock to fit the F8500 in my TV niche.

The off-angle stuff - my living room is adjacent to my kitchen and I watch TV when I'm cooking. The Vizio drops detail when looking at that angle compared to the plasma, as expected, and I'm not including that in MY personal showdown as it really isn't anything to judge a set on IMO at the angle I'm viewing at there.

My biggest nit when going to bed yesterday was that the plasma just seemed to have a bit more depth to the colors; not sure how to explain that and the pictures I took really didn't show it. The colors "popped" more on the plasma in relation to the Vizio; they looked "deeper," if that makes any sense. I had too much confidence in the Vizio to settle for that, so a factory reset was my next step along with a change to the Nvidia drivers to force 16-235 for everything (that alleviated the slight black crush I was seeing on the P60). After the reset I started the Vizio calibration over and started with Computer for the base mode of both the picture and color. In any case, all of a sudden the depth of colors (by eye tests) exceeded the plasma, the haze went away. A bit of tweaking on the colors after that and neither of us were looking down at the Samsung and my wife told me to turn the plasma off. In the end, I'm at this point for pros/cons:

P60 final pros:
- Bright room viewing is a no contest winner against the F8500
- Great shadow detail and, seriously, the blacks are BLACK - again, it wins against the plasma
- 4k. Really, really looks fantastic.

P60 final cons:
- Off-angle viewing dims the picture
- If you watch for the dimming, you can catch it occasionally turning the backlights off

F8500 final pros:
- Off-angle viewing is superb.
- 3d. I have kids, they think it is cool

F8500 final cons:
- Black isn't black compared to the P60. I can see an ever so slight glow to the plasma.
- Best rated plasma for bright rooms - BAH! It is completely washed out during the day with the drapes open.
- Personal con - I would have to 'adjust' some sheetrock to fit the F8500 in my TV niche.

I can say with 90% certainty that the Samsung is going back. (Actually, 100%, but that is because there is a defect in the panel of the plasma causing a horizontal line on all feeds/all inputs. But, really, I can't imagine that I'll exchange it). I'm going to keep the F8500 to watch some more football feeds on Saturday, but unless something blows me away it will be boxed up and returned to BB on Sunday morning.

Hope this helps some, I know that I've been stressing over finding a good replacement for my old 1080p JVC DLP.


*NOTE - initially, I had started with the calibrated dark setting and standard for the color - I'd be curious as to any input as to *why* the picture changed so much when I haven't touched the grayscale or color sweeps. After the reset, I tried to duplicate my setting across the other base settings, calibrated dark, etc. - I didn't get nearly the visual quality as with using the computer settings. I'm not sure if this has something to do with 16-235 or other settings underneath what you can see, but there is an obvious difference. I have 2 custom presets saved, one at calibrated dark/std, one at computer/computer. The settings are identical, but the cal dark/std looks terribly hazy and muted in comparison.

**NOTE 2 - that's a LOT of text above
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post #13 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furad View Post
The P series is 4k and it also has Full Array Local Dimming. What that means is it's going to have the best contrast and black levels of any LED on the market. There's also been a few side by side comparisons with the f8500 (last good plasma) and the P series has better blacks than even that.

So yes, you should probably take the samsung back and get the P series.
Dude what smokehouse did you hear that? Provide link please. Everyone knows the F8500 was king next to OLED in blacks in the best of the best shootouts. Don't know what you are talking about.

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post #14 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
Dude what smokehouse did you hear that? Provide link please. Everyone knows the F8500 was king next to OLED in blacks in the best of the best shootouts. Don't know what you are talking about.
Read the above.
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post #15 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 07:08 PM
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That is one person's personal opinion. Read the professional reviews and actual owners. While the Vizio is good, it's not in the same league.
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post #16 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furad View Post
From someone in the P series thread that bought both to see which was better -
I am not even going to both to pull text...as you can look for yourself

There was just a guy in the Samsung F8500 owner's thread that bought both and returned the P series for typical LED maladies......color accuracy and off angle viewing capability
There was also a post from about a week earlier in the same thread you pulled your quote from that has the Panasonic Vt and bought the P series. He returned the P series as well

The P series is a very good value...as are all Vizio Tv's

I am waiting for the new Vizio reference series to see how it stacks up

As of now the Sharp Elite still remains the king of LED's....other than some minimal finicky color issues it didnt have the typical LED TV maladies

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post #17 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
Dude what smokehouse did you hear that? Provide link please. Everyone knows the F8500 was king next to OLED in blacks in the best of the best shootouts. Don't know what you are talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
That is one person's personal opinion. Read the professional reviews and actual owners. While the Vizio is good, it's not in the same league.
I've had the P60 side by side with both a 65VT60 and a UN55F8000. The P60 holds it's own, and for your information, in a dark viewing environment, the P60 has better blacks than the VT60 which has better blacks than the F8500. And that is not opinion. I measured it.
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post #18 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 08:38 PM
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Better blacks on a solid black scene im assuming, not when there is shadow detail? Otherwise it cant fully turn its backlights off.

That was my experience atleast going from a p602 to a F8500. Better blacks on a solid black drop, but like any other lcd on mixed content.
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post #19 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmo85 View Post
Better blacks on a solid black scene im assuming, not when there is shadow detail? Otherwise it cant fully turn its backlights off.

That was my experience atleast going from a p602 to a F8500. Better blacks on a solid black drop, but like any other lcd on mixed content.
Much better black when 0% luminance is called for. A little dark detail does get lost relative to both the VT60 and F8000 LCD but you have to have my critical eye to notice it. Viewing a variety of content side by side with the VT60 was a tie, better perceived contrast on the P60 and better color on the VT60.

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post #20 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 08:56 PM
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buzzard - rtings measured the black level of the p series higher than the f8000, and he uses a still frame from a movie, so when you say you measured the p to have a lower black level, you must mean when the black is all by itself. There was a member names eric something who did not like that black blob effect, he said it was odd and distracting.
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post #21 of 48 Old 10-17-2014, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
I've had the P60 side by side with both a 65VT60 and a UN55F8000. The P60 holds it's own, and for your information, in a dark viewing environment, the P60 has better blacks than the VT60 which has better blacks than the F8500. And that is not opinion. I measured it.
So what you are saying is that this bargain Vizio displays darker blacks in a dark environment than the VT60/F8500?

http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/vizio/p-series

http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/plasma/samsung/f8500

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1375254254

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post #22 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 03:38 AM
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So what you are saying is that this bargain Vizio displays darker blacks in a dark environment than the VT60/F8500?
Yes, definitely. I had the P60 side by side with my VT60 and the P60's dimming produced much better perceived contrast in most dark content. I was pleasantly surprised at how effective 64 dimming zones could be. Right now I have it next to my F8000 and the difference is overwhelming.
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post #23 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 03:47 AM
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Independent third party P60/F8500 comparison here and here

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post #24 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Independent third party P60/F8500 comparison here and here
I think you missed one:
Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)
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post #25 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Yes, definitely. I had the P60 side by side with my VT60 and the P60's dimming produced much better perceived contrast in most dark content. I was pleasantly surprised at how effective 64 dimming zones could be. Right now I have it next to my F8000 and the difference is overwhelming.
what is perceived contrast?
I would be surprised as well that 64 zones would not pose a hiccup in blooming or shadow detail
It just doesnt seem like enough zones to present the type of picture as some high end LED's of the past

The multitude of comments about the dimming at off angle suggests its not near the TV the Sharp Elite was

Most of your comments, and others that like this TV, seem to center around how bright it can get vs plasma
I have never seen a situation where my F8500 could not get bright enough

But if the brightest picture wins....then you are definitely an LED person

Getting back to the original comparison in this thread

It would not surprise me if the P series is a better TV in certain aspects than the Samsung F8000
I would probably give the nod to the Samsung in motion , sharpness , features, off angle viewing and maybe even black level
The Vizio would probably get the nod in shadow detail and of course its capability of 4K


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post #26 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 07:45 AM
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The P series is just another edge lit TV without enough local dimming zones. Remember the Sharp FALD 60X5FD, this unit had 300 zones.......

______________________________

One huge item to consider is the the Samsung has a one year in home warranty, Vizio requires you to and ship your set to them, they pay freight back. >>> http://www.vizio.com/warranty

Shipping is about $200-$300 for shipping to them. Since the TV is used it can not be insured either by most carriers. That would suck to pay the freight to them, have your TV damaged, then you are totally screwed. Shipping a TV is a unique experience, done properly no big deal. To do it one time as a consumer, not recommended.
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Last edited by Cleveland Plasma; 10-18-2014 at 07:49 AM.
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post #27 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
No I didn't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
what is perceived contrast? Side by side viewing enables your eye/brain function to recognize a clear difference. I was astonished.

I would be surprised as well that 64 zones would not pose a hiccup in blooming or shadow detail
It just doesnt seem like enough zones to present the type of picture as some high end LED's of the past The blooming is minimal, barely noticeable.

The multitude of comments about the dimming at off angle suggests its not near the TV the Sharp Elite was Nor does it cost $8000 like the Elite did....

Most of your comments, and others that like this TV, seem to center around how bright it can get vs plasma
I have never seen a situation where my F8500 could not get bright enough I have NEVER made a comment about how bright the P60 is capable of. All LED lit displays can do this. I, and several other calibrators, have found a way to get 50 fL luminance out of Panasonics. That's plenty for day viewing. I have both my 65VT60 and my 65VT50 set up this way.

But if the brightest picture wins....then you are definitely an LED person Actually, with 3 plasmas in my house I would definitely NOT be an LED person.

Getting back to the original comparison in this thread

It would not surprise me if the P series is a better TV in certain aspects than the Samsung F8000
I would probably give the nod to the Samsung in motion , sharpness , features, off angle viewing and maybe even black level
The Vizio would probably get the nod in shadow detail and of course its capability of 4K I have my P60 side by side with my F8000. The F8000 has slightly, as in VERY slightly, better motion handling. Sharpness? Welcome to the digital world of 0's and 1's. Black level? The F8000 ON/OFF black level is a little lower than the .005 fL of the P60 - but that is with local dimming turned OFF. The P60 is viewed with local dimming ON and this is where the realistic contrast, ANSI contrast, comes into play. In this situation the F8000 black measures .02 fL and the P60 measures 0.000

I own all of these displays except for the F8500 but I have calibrated many of them. If you go through the F8500 threads you'll see the quasi famous graph showing how the rising black problem has been reduced via a FW update. If you look closely at that graph you'll see my name on it. I've been in on this stuff since the beginning. Because I own these displays, I have no reason not to be objective. I participate in owner threads about displays I own merely to help others out. I have no agenda.

And here's the kicker. I don't use ANY of them for movie viewing. I have a dedicated theater with a Sony 4K front projector and an all JTR 7.2 system with 8000 watts RMS sub woofer power. It blows all LED back lit or side lit and all plasmas out of the water.



Warren

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post #28 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
The P series is just another edge lit TV without enough local dimming zones. Remember the Sharp FALD 60X5FD, this unit had 300 zones.......
The Vizio P series is full array back lit.

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post #29 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
The Vizio P series is full array back lit.
I understand that, but because it does not have enough local dimming zones, it is more like an edge lit TV compared to a true FALD unit like the PRO-60X5FD which has 300 local dimming zones.

-- What about that mail in service warranty.........
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post #30 of 48 Old 10-18-2014, 11:04 AM
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I understand that, but because it does not have enough local dimming zones, it is more like an edge lit TV compared to a true FALD unit like the PRO-60X5FD which has 300 local dimming zones.

-- What about that mail in service warranty.........
"true FALD unit"??????

C'mon Chris. The P's are full array, period. The P55 acts something like an edge lit panel because it's an IPS and has either bad engineering or poor assembly technique in Mexico. They all leak light, especially around the lower right hand corner. The other four sizes don't do this and have excellent uniformity throughout.

And the Elite?????? Sorry you got me started. I did three 70" Elites (and 4 VT50's) in the same house once in Naples. Yes, VERY big house. Like all Elites, color tracking was sub standard and the price out of this world. In three months Vizio will be releasing the R65 with 384 dimming zones. You can bet your butt it will be a lot less expensive than the Sharp. Stand by........

I don't pay any attention to warranties, nor have I ever purchased long term 3rd party warranties on electronics or automobiles. Once it is determined that a unit works as it should I keep it or schlep it back to the seller if it doesn't. I've never had a problem and in the long run I'm money ahead.

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