Official 2015 Vizio 4K UHD M Series Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post
I believe computer users benefit from the 4K resolution the most, since most TV content is still 1080p or less and also computer users usually sits much closer to the TV.

At present I'm using 37" 1080p monitor sitting about 3 and half feet away and if I look for it I can see the dots on light color static images.

I like to get 50" or 55" monitor and there is no way I can use that size with 1080p resolution. The text and icon size are easy to adjust in PC display setting.

For games to play at 4K @ 60 FPS one needs high performance PC with high end graphic card (preferably 2 cards).

I didn't buy the 2014 P-series or the 2015 M-series because there is no support for 4k@60Hz with 4:4:4 choma which is ONLY important for PC use.

I was going to compromise and use 4k@30Hz 4:4:4 choma for PC monitor and for gaming to use 1080p@120Hz 4:4:4, just to find out the 1080p@120Hz does not work properly.

So I didn't buy any hoping the 2015 P-series will fix all this issues and have full bandwidth HDMI 2.0 support
Thread is pretty long, what is the issue with 1080p/120? I was looking at the 43" as a PC monitor as well.
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post #542 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 03:28 PM
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Official 2015 Vizio 4K UHD M Series Thread

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Originally Posted by Orta View Post
Thread is pretty long, what is the issue with 1080p/120? I was looking at the 43" as a PC monitor as well.

Sighhhh at least check the last two pages or so. This information was posted recently (as in past day or two).


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post #543 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post
just to find out the 1080p@120Hz does not work properly.
Nowhere M specs state that 120hz is supported. It was pure speculation that it may work. In any case M or P series is a bad choice as a PC monitor.
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post #544 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Nowhere M specs state that 120hz is supported. It was pure speculation that it may work. In any case M or P series is a bad choice as a PC monitor.
It's on Vizio.com on the M-series product page.

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post #545 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Orta View Post
It's on Vizio.com on the M-series product page.


http://cdn.vizio.com/documents/m65c1/um-m65c1.pdf
http://cdn.vizio.com/documents/m55c2/um-m55c2.pdf

Page 14
† Available for compatible gaming systems or high-performance PCs for display of 1080p @ 60 fps

55" and less are 60hz.
60" and above are 120hz. These I can believe in 120hz support.
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post #546 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 05:32 PM
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See pages 63, 64, and 65

http://cdn.vizio.com/documents/m70c3/um-m70c3.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Nowhere M specs state that 120hz is supported. It was pure speculation that it may work. In any case M or P series is a bad choice as a PC monitor.
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post #547 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rakstr View Post
Not seeing any mention of 1080p@120 on those pages.
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post #548 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 06:08 PM
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Just picked up a new 60" (M60-C3) for $1,398! Hoping to get it all set up tonight. Pretty stoked
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post #549 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Nowhere M specs state that 120hz is supported. It was pure speculation that it may work. In any case M or P series is a bad choice as a PC monitor.
You're not correct, it's not speculation on my part at all. Anytime I would post anything speculative on any forum I would say so.

Until recently the Vizio 2015 M-Series were promoted on Vizio site as "The Velocity Mode" 1080p@120 FPS, now I can't find it any more on that page.

I'm 100% sure about it, so I used Google Search to find the page. You can see in the first link how the same Vizio link is described:
Quote:
M-Series Full-Array LED 4K Ultra HD Smart TV 2015 | VIZIO
www.vizio.com/m-series
VIZIO M-Series commands premium 4K Ultra HD innovations with an ultra-sharp ... Actual results and number of LED lights, zones, and size vary by model. ... High Velocity Mode activates 120 frames per second over HDMI for incredible video .... Enjoy blazing-fast bandwidth from the built-in 802.11ac high-speed Dual-Band ...
On the Vizio 2014 P-Series and R-series promotion pages the description is still there:
Quote:
High Velocity Mode.
The VIZIO P-Series features a breakthrough for hardcore gamers with revolutionary High Velocity Mode that adjusts your TV's frame rate to enable an unprecedented gaming experience at an ultra-fast 120 frames per second with incredibly low latency.
Vizio support acknowledged the problem on P-series and for the last few months are promising a firmware update to fix it, they just don`t have any idea when. Based on the way they fixed it on 2015 M-series it might be never, here I`m just speculating. LOL
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post #550 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post
Until recently the Vizio 2015 M-Series were promoted on Vizio site as "The Velocity Mode" 1080p@120 FPS, now I can't find it any more on that page.
I'm 100% sure about it, so I used Google Search to find the page. You can see in the first link how the same Vizio link is described:
You are not wrong about http://www.vizio.com/m-series, it does say 120 frames per second. And yet this is the only the place does that. No specific TV page, no manual says that. Download any manual and look at page 14. It specifically says "1080p @ 60 fps". So is it a lazy web designer who copy pasted text about velocity mode and forgot to correct it or is it a manual author who did not pay attention to refresh rate when typing? I don't know. That's why we ask owners to verify these contradictions. Here is an owner saying it does not work Official 2015 Vizio 4K UHD M Series Thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post
On the Vizio 2014 P-Series and R-series promotion pages the description is still there:
Vizio support acknowledged the problem on P-series and for the last few months are promising a firmware update to fix it, they just don`t have any idea when. Based on the way they fixed it on 2015 M-series it might be never, here I`m just speculating. LOL
We are not talking about P series here. It is a different beast with different specs. All I said was only about 2015 M series.
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post #551 of 15973 Old 05-08-2015, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
You are not wrong about http://www.vizio.com/m-series, it does say 120 frames per second. And yet this is the only the place does that. No specific TV page, no manual says that. Download any manual and look at page 14. It specifically says "1080p @ 60 fps". So is it a lazy web designer who copy pasted text about velocity mode and forgot to correct it or is it a manual author who did not pay attention to refresh rate when typing? I don't know. That's why we ask owners to verify these contradictions. Here is an owner saying it does not work Official 2015 Vizio 4K UHD M Series Thread.
My reply was not about me being wrong, I know it was not the case. The reply was about you stating this was just based on speculation and that was 100% wrong.

I know about the manuals, I posted about them long time before your post HERE post #110 on April 6., Thats when I first started to question if there is a 1080p@120 aupport. At that time I was not sure since some of Manuals shared models with 120 Hz Effective Refresh Rate and 240 Hz Effective Refresh Rate.

Based on that I first thought it might be mistake jn the manuals, so I decided to post a question at RTINGS

They reviewed one off the 2015 M-series model as 1080p@120hz. HERE is the post and reply near bottom of the page;
Quote:
Did you really tested the 1080p@120fps?
The M43-C1, M49-C1, M50-C1 & M55-C have 120Hz Effective Refresh Rate. The M60-C3, M70-C3, M65-C1, M75-C1 & M80-C3 have 240Hz Effective Refresh Rate.
In all the manuals, the HDMI port 5 High Velocity Mode is described in a note as: "Available for compatible gaming systems or high-performance PCs for display of 1080p @ 60 fps."
The P-series have the same port described as 1080p @ 120fps, except it does not work without getting black screen or game lockups, as reported by many in the AVS Forum P-series owners' thread, and also reported to Vizio suport. Vizio is promising to fix the bug with firmware update, yet seven months later they can't even give an ETA on that.


We did, by forcing 1080p120 with our GTX 960 graphics card. This is the photo we took of the test result, which shows there was no frame skipping.
We were also able to get 120 fps with our Vizio P, and likewise did not have any frame skipping while conducting the test (Photo here). Unfortunately, if this is a known issue and Vizio has promised a fix, there is nothing to do but wait.
Apr 20, 2015
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post #552 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post
Based on that I first thought it might be mistake jn the manuals, so I decided to post a question at RTINGS
Rtings site is a good source of information, but they only test a single TV, M60 in this case. With Vizio TVs a different size can mean different panel, different panel manufacturer, different specs. Reviewed by Rtings M60 has native 120hz refresh rate and I see no problems believing that they got 1080p@120hz with that TV. M55 and below are 60hz panels. Rtings did not test those TVs. Claims about running 120hz on 60hz panel raise doubt.
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post #553 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 08:35 AM
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Great thread...just received my M43-C1 for our master bedroom. I returned a 40" Samsung JU7100...certainly, the Sammy had some serious bells and whistles and (IMO), a slightly better picture quality...but not worth the 2x price of this Vizio.
How do you like the color on the 43"? I am debating buying the 43" but was concerned that this size is capable of less colors (16.7 million versus over 1 billion) than the larger sizes. Most reviews online have only been for larger sizes and not specifically the 43".
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post #554 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Heinz68 View Post
You're not correct, it's not speculation on my part at all. Anytime I would post anything speculative on any forum I would say so.

Until recently the Vizio 2015 M-Series were promoted on Vizio site as "The Velocity Mode" 1080p@120 FPS, now I can't find it any more on that page.

I'm 100% sure about it, so I used Google Search to find the page. You can see in the first link how the same Vizio link is described:
On the Vizio 2014 P-Series and R-series promotion pages the description is still there:
Vizio support acknowledged the problem on P-series and for the last few months are promising a firmware update to fix it, they just don`t have any idea when. Based on the way they fixed it on 2015 M-series it might be never, here I`m just speculating. LOL
You just got through telling me to dig through 70 or 80 posts to find the comments on 120hz (which for all I knew could have been on page 1), but could not be arsed to look at the Velocity Mode screen cap I posted, which was re-quoted, right above you.
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post #555 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 01:02 PM
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Local costco finally started selling M55-C2 so I grabbed one. A few things I can confirm.
- It is VA panel. I don't have a loupe but it has good blacks and small viewing angles.
- It does not support 120hz. NVCP will not list that resolution. I was able to create custom resolution 1080p@120hz, it will accept it, but it totally fails frame skipping test. So it is as advertised 60hz panel. I will make a better photo later.
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post #556 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 02:14 PM
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I just picked up the 70inch, finally came in. Did a quick set up, can't really mess with it and run it through all the person tests I do with movies games and streaming. Due to prior engagements, (sigh) one thing that I did notice is that I used my USB with some 4k content and some did not play. I'm not sure but the ones that did not play may have been mkv format. Will post more of my impressions as I have more time with it, I can say that it does produce good blacks from the little that I did watch.
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post #557 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Local costco finally started selling M55-C2 so I grabbed one. A few things I can confirm.
- It is VA panel. I don't have a loupe but it has good blacks and small viewing angles.
- It does not support support 120hz. NVCP will not list that resolution. I was able to create custom resolution 1080p@120hz, it will accept it, but it totally fails frame skipping test. So it is as advertised 60hz panel. I will make a better photo later.
Thanks for doing the test. I suspected this was the case, but it's nice to know someone ran the tests and confirms the smaller displays are doing frame skipping.
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post #558 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 08:15 PM
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Finally went through and calibrated each input per device on my new M60-C3. Seriously blown away by value:quality ratio here. Almost pulled the trigger on Samsung 60" SUHD (that HDR 10-bit is really a thing of beauty). BUT, $3,200 vs. $1,398 for a sort of stop-gap 4K set was a no-brainer, IMO. Didn't expect the picture to be THIS damned good. Everything I throw at this set shines. Photos, Xfinity X1 HD content, the YouTube app w/ 4K vids, 4K vids shot with my Galaxy Note 4, Xbox One and PS4... all freakin jaw dropping stuff.

Really glad I went 60" to step up to VA panel with REALLY good black levels and 240hz

A couple of shots attached of still photos shot with my cell phone. Bravo, Vizio. Can't imagine it getting better after firmware updates. But bring it on!

Thanks everyone for the feedback, talking me into the purchase. VERY happy so far. Cheers!





(the TV is perfectly centered, it's the shadows producing the illusion..)
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post #559 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chodite View Post
Finally went through and calibrated each input per device on my new M60-C3. Seriously blown away by value:quality ratio here. Almost pulled the trigger on Samsung 60" SUHD (that HDR 10-bit is really a thing of beauty). BUT, $3,200 vs. $1,398 for a sort of stop-gap 4K set was a no-brainer, IMO. Didn't expect the picture to be THIS damned good. Everything I throw at this set shines. Photos, Xfinity X1 HD content, the YouTube app w/ 4K vids, 4K vids shot with my Galaxy Note 4, Xbox One and PS4... all freakin jaw dropping stuff.

Really glad I went 60" to step up to VA panel with REALLY good black levels and 240hz

A couple of shots attached of still photos shot with my cell phone. Bravo, Vizio. Can't imagine it getting better after firmware updates. But bring it on!

Thanks everyone for the feedback, talking me into the purchase. VERY happy so far. Cheers!





(the TV is perfectly centered, it's the shadows producing the illusion..)
I agree Quality and value you can't go wrong,would you share the setting for movie watching? Just trying to get a general idea to start with. When I get home thanks.
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post #560 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 09:04 PM
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I agree Quality and value you can't go wrong,would you share the setting for movie watching? Just trying to get a general idea to start with. When I get home thanks.
My "HDMI 1 - Cable Box" Xfinity X1 HD DVR settings below.. because I'm too lazy to type :P
(not the best screenshot, based on how old this film is. But these settings look good based on all 720p/1080i/1080p upscaled content from the box). All personal preference.

My 4K streaming settings are quite similar. In your Cable STB settings, make sure you're set at 1080p60fps
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post #561 of 15973 Old 05-09-2015, 11:05 PM
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I just want to throw a reminder out that I tested my M 43" and from what I can tell, it accepts 120hz at 1080P. I will say however it is not as smooth feeling as it is on my 70" P. The mouse appears to not be as smooth but I cant tell if its simply just the way the panel is and its overshoot that I am seeing. Also there is a more pronounced quality loss in picture and color mostly from the native 4k resolution when running in 1080P 120Hz. And there is games out there that can be played at 4k without a top end gpu, one of them being Diablo III on pc. I have been playing that with my 980on the m43 at 4k and it is very nice. I have a laptop with a 970m and if I lower the settings a bit it is playable on it as well. I would think that if the TV didnt really support 120hz it wouldnt be listed in the graphics option on my pc and in games, and it wouldnt past the tests from the blurbusters website. Maybe its just the 43" model on the smaller models that support 120hz mode?
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post #562 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodite View Post
Finally went through and calibrated each input per device on my new M60-C3. Seriously blown away by value:quality ratio here. Almost pulled the trigger on Samsung 60" SUHD (that HDR 10-bit is really a thing of beauty). BUT, $3,200 vs. $1,398 for a sort of stop-gap 4K set was a no-brainer, IMO. Didn't expect the picture to be THIS damned good. Everything I throw at this set shines. Photos, Xfinity X1 HD content, the YouTube app w/ 4K vids, 4K vids shot with my Galaxy Note 4, Xbox One and PS4... all freakin jaw dropping stuff.

Really glad I went 60" to step up to VA panel with REALLY good black levels and 240hz

A couple of shots attached of still photos shot with my cell phone. Bravo, Vizio. Can't imagine it getting better after firmware updates. But bring it on!

Thanks everyone for the feedback, talking me into the purchase. VERY happy so far. Cheers!

(the TV is perfectly centered, it's the shadows producing the illusion..)
It looks like you didn't have much margin for error with your stand width!

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post #563 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 03:13 AM
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What hdmi wires is everyone using with this TV? I have monoprice hdmi wires, I read that someone got better performance with a cheaper brand than the monoprice. I think when I get home I will try the old ones I had just to see.
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post #564 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodite View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe879 View Post
I agree Quality and value you can't go wrong,would you share the setting for movie watching? Just trying to get a general idea to start with. When I get home thanks.
My "HDMI 1 - Cable Box" Xfinity X1 HD DVR settings below.. because I'm too lazy to type :P
(not the best screenshot, based on how old this film is. But these settings look good based on all 720p/1080i/1080p upscaled content from the box). All personal preference.

My 4K streaming settings are quite similar. In your Cable STB settings, make sure you're set at 1080p60fps

Thanks for the settings I will try them out when I get home, I will also upgrade to the X1 box I just have the regular hd box. I heard that the X1 box is much better.
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post #565 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk11vengeance View Post
I just want to throw a reminder out that I tested my M 43" and from what I can tell, it accepts 120hz at 1080P. I will say however it is not as smooth feeling as it is on my 70" P. The mouse appears to not be as smooth but I cant tell if its simply just the way the panel is and its overshoot that I am seeing. Also there is a more pronounced quality loss in picture and color mostly from the native 4k resolution when running in 1080P 120Hz. And there is games out there that can be played at 4k without a top end gpu, one of them being Diablo III on pc. I have been playing that with my 980on the m43 at 4k and it is very nice. I have a laptop with a 970m and if I lower the settings a bit it is playable on it as well. I would think that if the TV didnt really support 120hz it wouldnt be listed in the graphics option on my pc and in games, and it wouldnt past the tests from the blurbusters website. Maybe its just the 43" model on the smaller models that support 120hz mode?
It'll be listed because its HDMI port/electronics has the technical specs to receive a 120hz signal. And Vizio technically accepts it on the M line. So everything is great. Except the screen itself is only 60hz (with the "Effective 120hz" propaganda occurring from flashing the lights at 120hz). Which is why your mouse doesn't feel as smooth on it. It's frame skipping every other frame (since it only has the capacity to update the screen 60 times per second). You can see the frame skipping in the photo above. It's very common for a TV to report 120hz in the control panel, but to frame skip and only actually update 60 times per second. It just means it has an HDMI port with enough bandwidth to process the input at 120hz.
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post #566 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 09:05 AM
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Thanks for the settings I will try them out when I get home, I will also upgrade to the X1 box I just have the regular hd box. I heard that the X1 box is much better.
As a Comcast tech please make sure the technician installs the XB3 wireless gateway modem with the X1. I also would recommend the RGN150 client boxes over the Xi3 boxes that work with the X1 DVR. The X1 DVR comes with 5 tuners, for every Xi3 box you have in another room it uses the tuner on the X1. So if you have X1 DVR and 2 Xi3 clients, you can only record 2 shows instead of 4. If you use the RGN150 boxes that have their own tuner, you have the ability to record 4 shows at one time on your X1 DVR.
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post #567 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 09:51 AM
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It looks like you didn't have much margin for error with your stand width!
Almost had a heart attack when setting it up!

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As a Comcast tech please make sure the technician installs the XB3 wireless gateway modem with the X1. I also would recommend the RGN150 client boxes over the Xi3 boxes that work with the X1 DVR. The X1 DVR comes with 5 tuners, for every Xi3 box you have in another room it uses the tuner on the X1. So if you have X1 DVR and 2 Xi3 clients, you can only record 2 shows instead of 4. If you use the RGN150 boxes that have their own tuner, you have the ability to record 4 shows at one time on your X1 DVR.
And as a Direct Sales Rep for the company, I'm vouching for this recommendation
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post #568 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 10:11 AM
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As a Comcast tech please make sure the technician installs the XB3 wireless gateway modem with the X1. I also would recommend the RGN150 client boxes over the Xi3 boxes that work with the X1 DVR. The X1 DVR comes with 5 tuners, for every Xi3 box you have in another room it uses the tuner on the X1. So if you have X1 DVR and 2 Xi3 clients, you can only record 2 shows instead of 4. If you use the RGN150 boxes that have their own tuner, you have the ability to record 4 shows at one time on your X1 DVR.



Great information on the X1 box but why use the XB3 wireless gateway modem, is it better? I have a Motorola modem in my basement and a Cisco DPC3000 upstairs near my computer because of location of the connections(I have cable, phone, internet). I have my own Netgear wireless N router that works great, at least I think it does. Also I am using 2 X1 boxes in my home, is there a problem with that or should I use something else that has a DVR to communicate with an X1?


I also heard that Comcast will soon have 4K content to all and have a new X1 box called the Xi4/Xi5, have you heard anything about this? Also will the Xi4 4k box be used along with the current X1 or is it a new stand alone box? When will it be available? Appreciate the help. Thanks.

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post #569 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 10:27 AM
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Great information on the X1 box but why use the XB3 wireless gateway modem, is it better? I have a Motorola modem in my basement and a Cisco DPC3000 upstairs near my computer because of location of the connections(I have cable, phone, internet). I have my own Netgear wireless N router that works great, at least I think it does. Also I am using 2 X1 boxes in my home, is there a problem with that or should I use something else that has a DVR to communicate with an X1?


I also heard that Comcast will soon have 4K content to all and have a new X1 box called the Xi4/Xi5, have you heard anything about this? Also will the Xi4 4k box be used along with the current X1 or is it a new stand alone box? When will it be available? Appreciate the help. Thanks.
Anything X1 going forward is going to be compatible. If you choose to use your own modem that is fine. If you are having issues with video cutting out or sluggishness with the service, you might need a Mocha filter plugged directly behind the modem. This same filter is what is outside at your ground block for all X1 installs. If you ever had Anyroom DVR this is the same filter that keeps your signal in your home and not bleed out to other neighbors.

My experience with X1 customers using their own modem has been a constant issue to the point of installing the XB3 resolving those issues. Your in a different system than I am so what I see here doesn't mean you will have those issues. The XB3 was designed to work with the X1 platform. Soon they are coming with the new wireless gateway modem that is wireless AC capable. Of course if you don't have any devices that can see AC then you are good with what you got

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post #570 of 15973 Old 05-10-2015, 10:29 AM
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Great information on the X1 box but why use the XB3 wireless gateway modem, is it better? I have a Motorola modem in my basement and a Cisco DPC3000 upstairs near my computer because of location of the connections(I have cable, phone, internet). I have my own Netgear wireless N router that works great, at least I think it does. Also I am using 2 X1 boxes in my home, is there a problem with that or should I use something else that has a DVR to communicate with an X1?

I also heard that Comcast will soon have 4K content to all and have a new X1 box called the Xi4/Xi5, have you heard anything about this? Also will the Xi4 4k box be used along with the current X1 or is it a new stand alone box? When will it be available? Appreciate the help. Thanks.
If you don't own your own router, the XB3 gateway is your best bet. I invested in an Asus RT-N66R, because quite frankly - the XB3 gateway continuously dropped my connection and the wifi speeds were slow. My 105Mbps was constantly in the 20-30Mbps range, but 100+ when hard-wired. With the new router, I now get 100-130Mbps wifi. HOWEVER, if you are using your own router, I'd recommend calling customer service and putting your Xfinity gateway into "bridge mode", so it's just being used as a modem and not producing a wifi signal.

The Xi4 4K STB comes out later this year. Xi5 (which will have HDR 4K), next year. It will be a new/separate box.

EDIT: just saw the reply above. Didn't mean to step on any toes. Just trying to help
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