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After a week with a 4k TV

22K views 297 replies 62 participants last post by  p5browne 
#1 ·
You're a liar if you say you can't see the difference between 4k & 1080p or you have a crap TV.

65 900b Sony

Now ... I will say I'm not at all wowed by upscaled 1080p... Not at all ....

My st60 blows the Sony away in every facet minus 4k ....

Video games I will admit look sensational ...

However color me meh on 4k tv's ...

Until I can turn my TV on and can watch NFL in live 4k and NHL - 4k is a niche little fun thing to look at once in a blue because 99.9 % of what you watch isn't 4k...

I see no reason to get a 4k TV right now unless you're in dire need of an upgrade ...

Am I regretting this purchase ? No because the 900b is unique in its appearance and the speakers on the side with a sub woofer out is the dogs balls ..
What a beautiful pierce of tech ..


Just wish up scaling was 4k ish - it most certainly is not .
 
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#125 ·
No picking up Unbroken today
Wow ... so you decided to start a new thread to bash 1080p upscaling .. and did not think it would be premature to post prior to checking out how Blu-Ray would upscale ... especially considering that Blu-ray (given its high bitrate) makes an ideal source for testing quality of an upscalar.
 
#5 ·
I think the tv is great...

but only thing for me is 3d active, it doesn't pop out like the passive i had with my defective 65 900a but other than that the 3d is great and obviously more clear and detailed, but i will be on the hunt for a passive 3d if possible. Upscale is great from 1080p on youtube.com as i have seen and it is better than my 900a but i still miss my 900a due to the passive 3d.
 
#6 ·
Until I can turn my TV on and can watch NFL in live 4k and NHL - 4k is a niche little fun thing to look at once in a blue because 99.9 % of what you watch isn't 4k...
That's me. My first question when thinking of 4k tv's is "how does it upscale sat/cable 720p/1080i signals?" I think whenever we get to that point where we can watch 4k NFL and 4k broadcast network, 4k TVs will be so much more advanced and cheaper than they are now. And possibly LED and it's limitations will be a memory.
 
#8 ·
Direct tv is rolling out movie channels in 4k this summer.

But the biggest issue is upscaling of cable and satellite to make it look better. Both sony and samsung have improved their processors for better upscale of 1080i sources in their 2015 lineups, 2014 sets were certainly weaker but considering it's a new tech nobody should be surprised. For the most part my cable looks pretty decent on my hu9000 4k, but I'm going to benefit from an upgrade box that gives me the 2015 processor. And then next year my upgrade will include the 2016 processor. Blu rays look OUTSTANDING on my tv. It really does blow away my samsung f7100 1080p tv I had for a year for most of 2014. Your right though, I'd be very cautious with the lower end 2014 4k tvs.
 
#7 ·
If you haven't used Spears & Munsil or Disney WOW to tweak the TV yet, I highly recommend it as the Sony's aren't very impressive until you really take the time to tweak them - then they look fantastic. I think you'll see some good upscaling with DVD but bluray upscaling is so little work that you'll almost think it is 4K.
 
#9 · (Edited)
yes, 4K sets don't "upscale" 720p/1080i sources noticeably better than 1080p sets.

the "upscale" to 4K is more noticeable on 1080p sources (but still not overwhelming). but if you don't watch BR or stream 4K, then a 4K set certainly isn't necessary at all.

that said, new 1080p sets will be extinct by 2016 (and are already almost non-existent in 2015 lineups), so the "1080p vs. 4K" argument will be moot by this time next year, as all sets will use 4K panels.

even in current 2015 models, the price difference between 1080p and 4K sets is pretty small.

panel tech will always be light years ahead of both broadcasters' and cable/satellite providers' content. they're the weak links in the chain, not panel/tv makers.

there still isn't a single broadcaster or a single cable/satellite provider who provides 1080p content. and there won't be one anytime soon, it's an absolute joke.

so, in theory, even 1080p sets are overkill for 99% of most consumers' normal viewing.
 
#10 · (Edited)
yes, 4K sets don't "upscale" 720p/1080i sources noticeably better than 1080p sets.

the "upscale" to 4K is more noticeable on 1080p sources (but still not overwhelming). but if you don't watch BR or stream 4K, then a 4K set certainly isn't necessary at all.

that said, new 1080p sets will be extinct by 2016 (and are already almost non-existent in 2015 lineups), so the "1080p vs. 4K" argument will be moot by this time next year, as all sets will use 4K panels.

even in current 2015 models, the price difference between 1080p and 4K sets is pretty small.

panel tech will always be light years ahead of both broadcasters' and cable/satellite providers' content. they're the weak links in the chain, not panel/tv makers.

there still isn't a single broadcaster or a single cable/satellite provider who provides 1080p content. and there won't be one anytime soon, it's an absolute joke.

so, in theory, even 1080p sets are overkill for 99% of most consumers' normal viewing.
IMO it will be an slow adaption slower than what you think, even if the tv manufactures are pushing hard 4k and slowly stopping 1080p set .

4k in 2015 it is still a niche product ,2016 wont make the big difference even with the upcoming 4k blu ray players ,there are still 1080p sets in millions of homes in the world ,people are still buying 1080p sets even that they know that tv manufactures are pushing 4k and slowly stopping 1080p.

4k blu ray player and 4k blu ray disks will not be cheap the first year.

I think it will take more time than what we think for full adaptation ,manufactures are stopping 1080p because in reality is not a huge difference at normal seating distance and if they keep making 1080p people will still be buying 1080p because of the lower price and even if they lower the price of 4k they have to keep even lower the price of 1080p just like 720p and 1080p sets.

now HDR ,WCG and HFR are entering to the market and the previews owners are left with just resolution and lacking on specs for the upcoming 4k blu ray player making this more difficult for this people that already spend 4,000 + on the previews sets.


The reality is that HD is still today standard ,dvds are still selling more than blu rays and streaming is killing physical format.

is really a mess lol. it will take more time for all this to settle.
 
#13 ·
Most here understand the situation well. 4k is marketing.........be careful a lot of these low mid level 4k sets are a downgrade to a mid grade 1080P set.

I have looked side by side at 4k and 1080P sets literally dozens of times. 65-80" plus sets with same
content on each. At normal viewing distance there is NO DIFFERENCE. Anyone saying different hasnt made the comparisons.

I have had to get 1-2 feet away from the set to see a difference. Maybe you like to pause your tv.....then you might see a difference. Who does that ???

When they are the same price for the same quality set then buy one.
Dont spend extra for it. 4k content is gonna be slow coming and very limited for years.

Eventually 4k will be on every set.......but its just like 3d. Dont pay a dime for it extra.

Then we can argue about 8k or whatever they try to force feed us next.
 
#14 ·
I know it's all mostly opinion based but I'm looking for opinions. I'm ready to get a 65-70" tv for mostly live sports on directv and an occasional movie - typically streamed. PQ is my biggest concern and I'll spend $2500..or I'd spend $1250 if that's the best value. Would you guys get a 4k? I'm really undecided. I wouldn't mind having to buy another in a few years either.
 
#16 ·
For those very basic needs, I would not get a 4K. For a grand or less, you can easily get a pretty solid 1080p in that size range that you'll be more than happy donating in a few years.
 
#15 ·
This is an opinion shared by MANY people. Spend 2 weeks watching tv with a 4k tv. Then go back to 1080p. Screen door effect BIG TIME. Your eyes adjust to the smaller pixels, and when u go back to 1080p you can see the pixels on the tv, even from 10 feet away. The 4k panel is cleaner looking.
 
#21 · (Edited)
That's the problem why get OCD about pixels that are already very tiny and that at distance with motion become less appreciable ,do you know that a plasma handle motion resolution a lot better than a 4k?

and a 1080p LCD handle better motion resolution than last year 4k? Im not sure about this year but they probably handle better the motion than a 4k but at least some models are including BFI.

what makes special 4k tv is their new integration of spec , HDR ,WCG not the pixels.

I think that you still have time to exchange your HU9000 to a JS you wont regret it ,actually people are right now regretting and many are going to regret for been too fast about buying 4k.

I know that you must be thinking if I had the JS lol.;)
 
#22 ·
The manufactures are pushing 4k because the profit margins are huge compared to the highly competitive 1080p market.

I also have to agree with a few other guys on this board sports is still not even in 1080P let alone 4K. A huge portion of men buy a big TV to watch sports not Marvel comics movies.

I would suggest that before anyone buys a 4k have them play their 720p cable feed on the 4k set and compare that to a 1080P set because this is what's what most of us watch 98% of the time. Then ask yourself is the 4k premium worth it?

Some of the cable companies are saying they are going to offer some limited 4k content at a cost of course. However, satellite and cable companies networks can't even handle all their channels broadcasting in 1080p , so I seriously doubt 4k will be coming any any serous manner for a very long time.

Some have said you can get a 4k dvd player, but how much will that cost? Then how much will the DVD's cost?
 
#26 ·
If you get the right 4k tv sports can look great and be very enjoyable.
 

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#24 · (Edited)
Ray is one of the lucky people who are not impacted by motion. That is a good thing for him and people like him. It is a scientific fact that LCD does not produce motions as smooth as plasma - no matter how many hz or motion enhancements on or off there are on a set. I notice motion and so do some other people but many do not and they have a distinct advantage when looking for a set. Anyone who says their LCD or even OLED has as fluid motion as a plasma simply can't detect the difference so for them they are as good.


I can't perceive the difference between a fine wine and a cheap wine - it doesn't mean there isn't one - just that I can't detect it. I would never tell anyone that a March 2015 bottle of Night train is every bit as good as a 1996 chateau lafite Rothschild.


Also there are people who claim they can't detect the difference between 4K and 1080p. Only the original poster will be able to tell what he can and can't detect. Usually threads like this end up being a way for a person on the fence to be "talked into" what they want in the first place. I might post - is it OK to sleep with my girlfriend's sister if I'm about to break up with my girlfriend anyways? I'll get a 100 posts and while the bulk will say not until you break up with your girlfriend first - I'll spot the one that says - it won't matter since you are going to break up with her anyways and that will be all the convincing I need :)
 
#25 ·
everyone knows plasma has the best motion. but what constitutes "good enough"? i think the tv companies purposely low-balled the motion on the 4k sets of 2014. and samsung has completely switched their motion engine to to the BFI method which the professional reviewers are all saying what a great move it was. i actually am a little sensitive to certain types of motion problems. my first 2 4k tvs, the sony 850b and samsung 8550 had bad motion on those tvs. the sony 850b was very bad while the 8550 was a little better but not much. i returned both of those sets. my current tv has much better motion than either of those. and remember, when i went to buy a new tv, they didnt have plasmas to buy, so like other people, i can only choose between what is offered and what i can afford.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Sports on an LCD are not enjoyable in any way shape or form. With sports especially, you need high motion clarity, clean high motion clarity. On an LCD you are not going to get this without BFI or interpolation, and usually its done with a mix. The problem with that is not BFI (which is great), but interpolation. No matter what, you get horrible artifacts when you try to create a frame that was never there. I get dizzy and horrible headaches from this, and it makes it unwatchable. Of course, some people seem to not notice the artifacts and claim that "it looks great". A plasma on the other hand, can natively show all 1080 lines of resolution during motion, without any tricks. That is why people who have owned late gen panasonic plasmas (50 series and up) have such a hard time dealing with LCD, and now even OLED (sample and hold? why LG?!). After seeing the review of the new OLED it killed all hope of OLED saving the market for pure picture quality, at least for now.
 
#31 ·
that reminds me. im sure you are aware of samsung switching to BFI for their 2015 tvs. but samsung also has this new "sports mode", which is similar to "game mode" where it shuts down features that arent used for viewing sports and channels all its processing power into the areas that matter most for sports, such as motion processing, brightness, clarity. might be at least worth checking out to see how much different this "sports mode" is the new tvs compared to basically any other LED tv. you probably dont care, but im sure alot of people could find this very useful if it does indeed provide a significant improvement to a sports broadcast.
 
#28 · (Edited)
So that makes me an unlucky person for noticing motion blur very easily :( .I will have to blame plasma.

ray the pictures do not said anything when it comes to motion blur.

but if you like to show pictures of your display is ok.
 
#29 ·
So that makes me an unlucky person for noticing motion blur very easily :( .I will have to blame plasma.

ray the pictures do not said anything when it comes to motion blur.

but if you like to show pictures of your display is ok.
Exactly, and its for this reason that so many people don't understand what the big fuss is about. Can you believe that there is a large majority of people who have not viewed a good plasma? In a sense, they are lucky. Ignorance is bliss they say. Its similar to what happened to DLP with me. I never noticed the "rainbow effect", and then someone showed me how to look for it, and now single chip DLP is ruined for me. :rolleyes:
 
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#34 · (Edited)
I think you'll see some good upscaling with DVD but bluray upscaling is so little work that you'll almost think it is 4K.

4k up scaling is source dependable, I have read so many comments over the year about every single model and brand ,I also read that people are experiencing better upscaling with the new models and with the new samsung box so that makes the conclusion that up scaling isn't perfect.

the other back up is using the word firmwares as the majic fix .

same with motion ,some people said the new box for the last year tv improve motion so something must be wrong when you read all this.
 
#38 ·
I'd really like somebody to try hard to instill their opinion in me. I actually wish somebody at best buy would hold me at gun point and force me to buy something based on their strong opinion. It's funny that I used to think money was the only thing holding me back. Deciding on a tv shouldn't be this hard.
 
#39 ·
Deciding on a tv shouldn't be this hard.
I'm starting to feel that way too. So many specs - HDR, REC 2020, HDMI 2.0 18GB/s - not the same as HDMI 2.0 10GB/s, 60FPS, 10 bit screen vs. 10 bit dithering, HDCP 2.2, NITs, FALD or edge lit (doesn't apply to OLED of course). Then they say things like HDR compatible or works with - which might mean they are capable of displaying the picture but not at its full potential. I think it is worth it to know what specs are important and which are not. From my point of view all of those specs are important. I'm not sure if HDCP 2.2 will be implemented on 4K players but if it is, it will be important too. Then there are things that are hard to quantify with specs - upscaling (almost everything does it - but not all do it as well). Motion handling - again not all do it well.
 
#40 ·
Oh, wow, thanks. Didn't even consider a lot of that. A simple kick in the nuts would have sufficed.

Honestly, I'm really starting to think that spending a grand on a 65 without the frills is the best way to go for now. So if anyone has a suggestion on a plain 1080 in 65-70 range, shout it out.
 
#42 ·
I watch sports via directv almost exclusively with an occasional streamed movie. I'd spend 3 grand if it was the best value. I'd also spend a grand if I could get a good quality picture for that. I'm not someone with a hugely discerning eye, and...well, sports, so...
 
#43 · (Edited)
4K confusion

Walking through Wally world yesterday I saw a 50" Vizio on display. 4K P series. under ***$. Picture was pre-recorded, but really clear. Sales person said no one has returned this tv so far.
They just got the Samsung 55hu6840, just under **$.


I need a bedroom tv, so I was thinking panny 50" st30 into the bedroom and 55" Samsung UHD in the living room.


After reading this thread, doesn't sound like a good idea[?].


Only sports I watch [ and only sometimes] is baseball.


Now it looks like low end 4k's are worse than mid level 1080's? The Samsung is also a smart tv. [ my panny can do some of that with a dongle, I also have 2nd gen roku that I hardly use now]


I see on this forum there are people selling their 4k"s after not owning them very long.


I don't remember seeing a lot of that when researching here before I bought my plasma. It seemed people were more willing to address the problems they had with Panasonic CS instead of off loading them. Worrisome.


I don't hear much about Panasonic now, what are they up to?
 
#44 ·
I spent a day with the 50" Vizio P. I had 4k content on my PC, and watched some clips. Was not impressed. Had the idea to play the same 4k clips on my S60 plasma, which is "only" 1080p, and WOW. The Vizio P was no match, on any level. The picture of the S60 was much more dynamic and three dimensional. Mind you I had them side-by-side. The reason the 4k televisions look so good in the store is because they have cherry picked content playing on them, while all the other none-4k sets get low quality 1080i signals. If you have a good plasma, get ahold of 4k content and play them. It looks incredible.
 
#54 ·
All manufacturers are pushing 4K and making them their premium sets. To get the best picture, you now have to get a 4K TV. There's no option. If you want a budget TV, you have a choice but you won't get the best picture. In my opinion, FALD is necessary for a good picture. That's why I've waited to get a 4K. I'm planning to either get the new Panasonic CX850 or Vizio R (if they ever become available).
 
#55 ·
Due to recent health issues (nothing serious, just bills) I have decided to postpone my large purchase of my 78HU9000/75HU8550, I would rather have the money to make the purchase than buy it on an installment plan. That being said, my 64F8500 is a beast with picture quality. It simply looks amazing. Streaming Netflix movies in 1080P look insane, depending on the title. After running a 25 foot HDMI cable from the TIVO Roamio Pro to the home office 8550, I like my F8500 better. Looks like I'll have to wait on the fabled Plasma killer to get a new TV for the family room.
 
#57 ·
Yes I understand. Only those like yourself care about PQ and have the special gift of golden vision. The rest of us are hampered by low expectations and lack of the special rods and cones that allow for "XXUHD retinal vision" perception!

While I bet you even have extra neurons in your primary visual cortex that accounts for your XXUHD SupraVisual perception.

Some people have all the luck!
 
#59 ·
UFO, you are from another planet.

About the only finer thing 4k has over the top 1080p's are about a 30% mark up. When I watch a cable stream at a retailer the 4k and the 1080p are identical. You can't go by some specially produced 4k demo produced by the manufacturer. It's not the real world! Thier is no content and our cable providers will not provide anything worth while unless they rebuild their entire networks.

This is a scam to drive up margins on TV's by the manufacturers. Every few years it's something else.
 
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