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post #1 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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After a week with a 4k TV

You're a liar if you say you can't see the difference between 4k & 1080p or you have a crap TV.

65 900b Sony

Now ... I will say I'm not at all wowed by upscaled 1080p... Not at all ....

My st60 blows the Sony away in every facet minus 4k ....

Video games I will admit look sensational ...

However color me meh on 4k tv's ...

Until I can turn my TV on and can watch NFL in live 4k and NHL - 4k is a niche little fun thing to look at once in a blue because 99.9 % of what you watch isn't 4k...

I see no reason to get a 4k TV right now unless you're in dire need of an upgrade ...

Am I regretting this purchase ? No because the 900b is unique in its appearance and the speakers on the side with a sub woofer out is the dogs balls ..
What a beautiful pierce of tech ..


Just wish up scaling was 4k ish - it most certainly is not .
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post #2 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 07:28 AM
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Have u watched any blu rays?
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post #3 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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No picking up Unbroken today
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post #4 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
No picking up Unbroken today
Blu rays look 10x better than cable tv on any 4k tv. I watched need for speed and the new wizard of oz on the 900b and both looked spectacular. You can see the upscale affect in blu rays more than cable tv.
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post #5 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 09:57 AM
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I think the tv is great...

but only thing for me is 3d active, it doesn't pop out like the passive i had with my defective 65 900a but other than that the 3d is great and obviously more clear and detailed, but i will be on the hunt for a passive 3d if possible. Upscale is great from 1080p on youtube.com as i have seen and it is better than my 900a but i still miss my 900a due to the passive 3d.
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post #6 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
Until I can turn my TV on and can watch NFL in live 4k and NHL - 4k is a niche little fun thing to look at once in a blue because 99.9 % of what you watch isn't 4k...
That's me. My first question when thinking of 4k tv's is "how does it upscale sat/cable 720p/1080i signals?" I think whenever we get to that point where we can watch 4k NFL and 4k broadcast network, 4k TVs will be so much more advanced and cheaper than they are now. And possibly LED and it's limitations will be a memory.
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post #7 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 10:14 AM
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If you haven't used Spears & Munsil or Disney WOW to tweak the TV yet, I highly recommend it as the Sony's aren't very impressive until you really take the time to tweak them - then they look fantastic. I think you'll see some good upscaling with DVD but bluray upscaling is so little work that you'll almost think it is 4K.
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post #8 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
That's me. My first question when thinking of 4k tv's is "how does it upscale sat/cable 720p/1080i signals?" I think whenever we get to that point where we can watch 4k NFL and 4k broadcast network, 4k TVs will be so much more advanced and cheaper than they are now. And possibly LED and it's limitations will be a memory.
Direct tv is rolling out movie channels in 4k this summer.

But the biggest issue is upscaling of cable and satellite to make it look better. Both sony and samsung have improved their processors for better upscale of 1080i sources in their 2015 lineups, 2014 sets were certainly weaker but considering it's a new tech nobody should be surprised. For the most part my cable looks pretty decent on my hu9000 4k, but I'm going to benefit from an upgrade box that gives me the 2015 processor. And then next year my upgrade will include the 2016 processor. Blu rays look OUTSTANDING on my tv. It really does blow away my samsung f7100 1080p tv I had for a year for most of 2014. Your right though, I'd be very cautious with the lower end 2014 4k tvs.
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post #9 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post
You're a liar if you say you can't see the difference between 4k & 1080p or you have a crap TV.

65 900b Sony

Now ... I will say I'm not at all wowed by upscaled 1080p... Not at all ....

My st60 blows the Sony away in every facet minus 4k ....

Video games I will admit look sensational ...

However color me meh on 4k tv's ...

Until I can turn my TV on and can watch NFL in live 4k and NHL - 4k is a niche little fun thing to look at once in a blue because 99.9 % of what you watch isn't 4k...

I see no reason to get a 4k TV right now unless you're in dire need of an upgrade ...

Am I regretting this purchase ? No because the 900b is unique in its appearance and the speakers on the side with a sub woofer out is the dogs balls ..
What a beautiful pierce of tech ..


Just wish up scaling was 4k ish - it most certainly is not .
yes, 4K sets don't "upscale" 720p/1080i sources noticeably better than 1080p sets.

the "upscale" to 4K is more noticeable on 1080p sources (but still not overwhelming). but if you don't watch BR or stream 4K, then a 4K set certainly isn't necessary at all.

that said, new 1080p sets will be extinct by 2016 (and are already almost non-existent in 2015 lineups), so the "1080p vs. 4K" argument will be moot by this time next year, as all sets will use 4K panels.

even in current 2015 models, the price difference between 1080p and 4K sets is pretty small.

panel tech will always be light years ahead of both broadcasters' and cable/satellite providers' content. they're the weak links in the chain, not panel/tv makers.

there still isn't a single broadcaster or a single cable/satellite provider who provides 1080p content. and there won't be one anytime soon, it's an absolute joke.

so, in theory, even 1080p sets are overkill for 99% of most consumers' normal viewing.

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post #10 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paranoyd androyd View Post
yes, 4K sets don't "upscale" 720p/1080i sources noticeably better than 1080p sets.

the "upscale" to 4K is more noticeable on 1080p sources (but still not overwhelming). but if you don't watch BR or stream 4K, then a 4K set certainly isn't necessary at all.

that said, new 1080p sets will be extinct by 2016 (and are already almost non-existent in 2015 lineups), so the "1080p vs. 4K" argument will be moot by this time next year, as all sets will use 4K panels.

even in current 2015 models, the price difference between 1080p and 4K sets is pretty small.

panel tech will always be light years ahead of both broadcasters' and cable/satellite providers' content. they're the weak links in the chain, not panel/tv makers.

there still isn't a single broadcaster or a single cable/satellite provider who provides 1080p content. and there won't be one anytime soon, it's an absolute joke.

so, in theory, even 1080p sets are overkill for 99% of most consumers' normal viewing.
IMO it will be an slow adaption slower than what you think, even if the tv manufactures are pushing hard 4k and slowly stopping 1080p set .

4k in 2015 it is still a niche product ,2016 wont make the big difference even with the upcoming 4k blu ray players ,there are still 1080p sets in millions of homes in the world ,people are still buying 1080p sets even that they know that tv manufactures are pushing 4k and slowly stopping 1080p.

4k blu ray player and 4k blu ray disks will not be cheap the first year.

I think it will take more time than what we think for full adaptation ,manufactures are stopping 1080p because in reality is not a huge difference at normal seating distance and if they keep making 1080p people will still be buying 1080p because of the lower price and even if they lower the price of 4k they have to keep even lower the price of 1080p just like 720p and 1080p sets.

now HDR ,WCG and HFR are entering to the market and the previews owners are left with just resolution and lacking on specs for the upcoming 4k blu ray player making this more difficult for this people that already spend 4,000 + on the previews sets.


The reality is that HD is still today standard ,dvds are still selling more than blu rays and streaming is killing physical format.

is really a mess lol. it will take more time for all this to settle.

Last edited by losservatore; 03-27-2015 at 05:58 PM.
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post #11 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 05:55 PM
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Samsung, Sony, LG, Vizio all quietly have new 2015 1080p TVs.
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post #12 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
IMO it will be an slow adaption slower than what you think, even if the tv manufactures are pushing hard 4k and slowly stopping 1080p set .

4k in 2015 it is still a niche product ,2016 wont make the big difference even with the upcoming 4k blu ray players ,there are still 1080p sets in millions of homes in the world ,people are still buying 1080p sets even that they know that tv manufactures are pushing 4k and slowly stopping 1080p.

4k blu ray player and 4k blu ray disks will not be cheap the first year.

I think it will take more time than what we think for full adaptation ,manufactures are stopping 1080p because in reality is not a huge difference at normal seating distance and if they keep making 1080p people will still be buying 1080p because of the lower price and even if they lower the price of 4k they have to keep even lower the price of 1080p just like 720p and 1080p sets.

now HDR ,WCG and HFR are entering to the market and the previews owners are left with just resolution and lacking on specs for the upcoming 4k blu ray player making this more difficult for this people that already spend 4,000 + on the previews sets.


The reality is that HD is still today standard ,dvds are still selling more than blu rays and streaming is staring to kill physical format.

is really a mess lol. it will take more time for all this to settle.
it really is a mess. this is a bad time to be buying a new TV unless you're fine with settling for a cheap holdover set.

4K is the least important spec currently being pushed with respect to true PQ, while HDR/WCG is the most important.

the thing is, 4K is the much cheaper spec to implement. that's why the number of 4K sets have dramatically increased over the past year. i don't expect any major OEM to produce more than 1 model of 1080p by next year. and why would they?.. afterall, there will be new 4K blu ray machines and 4K BR discs to be sold!

it's all marketing nonsense since cable/satellite TV is stuck in the ancient world of 720p/1080i and will continue to be for a long time.
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post #13 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 06:45 PM
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Most here understand the situation well. 4k is marketing.........be careful a lot of these low mid level 4k sets are a downgrade to a mid grade 1080P set.

I have looked side by side at 4k and 1080P sets literally dozens of times. 65-80" plus sets with same
content on each. At normal viewing distance there is NO DIFFERENCE. Anyone saying different hasnt made the comparisons.

I have had to get 1-2 feet away from the set to see a difference. Maybe you like to pause your tv.....then you might see a difference. Who does that ???

When they are the same price for the same quality set then buy one.
Dont spend extra for it. 4k content is gonna be slow coming and very limited for years.

Eventually 4k will be on every set.......but its just like 3d. Dont pay a dime for it extra.

Then we can argue about 8k or whatever they try to force feed us next.
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post #14 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 07:50 PM
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I know it's all mostly opinion based but I'm looking for opinions. I'm ready to get a 65-70" tv for mostly live sports on directv and an occasional movie - typically streamed. PQ is my biggest concern and I'll spend $2500..or I'd spend $1250 if that's the best value. Would you guys get a 4k? I'm really undecided. I wouldn't mind having to buy another in a few years either.
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post #15 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 08:00 PM
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This is an opinion shared by MANY people. Spend 2 weeks watching tv with a 4k tv. Then go back to 1080p. Screen door effect BIG TIME. Your eyes adjust to the smaller pixels, and when u go back to 1080p you can see the pixels on the tv, even from 10 feet away. The 4k panel is cleaner looking.
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post #16 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_blow View Post
I know it's all mostly opinion based but I'm looking for opinions. I'm ready to get a 65-70" tv for mostly live sports on directv and an occasional movie - typically streamed. PQ is my biggest concern and I'll spend $2500..or I'd spend $1250 if that's the best value. Would you guys get a 4k? I'm really undecided. I wouldn't mind having to buy another in a few years either.
For those very basic needs, I would not get a 4K. For a grand or less, you can easily get a pretty solid 1080p in that size range that you'll be more than happy donating in a few years.
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post #17 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 08:07 PM
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For those very basic needs, I would not get a 4K. For a grand or less, you can easily get a pretty solid 1080p in that size range that you'll be more than happy donating in a few years.
That's what I was leaning towards...and forgot to mention I'm viewing from about 12-15 feet away mostly.
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post #18 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by j_blow View Post
I know it's all mostly opinion based but I'm looking for opinions. I'm ready to get a 65-70" tv for mostly live sports on directv and an occasional movie - typically streamed. PQ is my biggest concern and I'll spend $2500..or I'd spend $1250 if that's the best value. Would you guys get a 4k? I'm really undecided. I wouldn't mind having to buy another in a few years either.

If I were you and you end up with a 65" I'd seek out an unopened Samsung or Panasonic plasma. Motion on even a 2015 LCD or OLED is not going to be as good as plasma and since you said it was predominantly for sports, you really want plasma.
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post #19 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 08:14 PM
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My problem would be that I'm in a ton of sunlight.
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post #20 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 08:24 PM
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If I were you and you end up with a 65" I'd seek out an unopened Samsung or Panasonic plasma. Motion on even a 2015 LCD or OLED is not going to be as good as plasma and since you said it was predominantly for sports, you really want plasma.
true, plasma would be most ideal, but options on the secondary market are much slimmer at his desired size range.

that said, if i absolutely had to buy a new TV right now in that size range, i'd look for a used 65" ZT60 or F8500.. i'd want the best of the last plasmas.
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post #21 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 09:21 PM
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This is an opinion shared by MANY people. Spend 2 weeks watching tv with a 4k tv. Then go back to 1080p. Screen door effect BIG TIME. Your eyes adjust to the smaller pixels, and when u go back to 1080p you can see the pixels on the tv, even from 10 feet away. The 4k panel is cleaner looking.

That's the problem why get OCD about pixels that are already very tiny and that at distance with motion become less appreciable ,do you know that a plasma handle motion resolution a lot better than a 4k?

and a 1080p LCD handle better motion resolution than last year 4k? Im not sure about this year but they probably handle better the motion than a 4k but at least some models are including BFI.

what makes special 4k tv is their new integration of spec , HDR ,WCG not the pixels.

I think that you still have time to exchange your HU9000 to a JS you wont regret it ,actually people are right now regretting and many are going to regret for been too fast about buying 4k.

I know that you must be thinking if I had the JS lol.

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post #22 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 09:23 PM
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The manufactures are pushing 4k because the profit margins are huge compared to the highly competitive 1080p market.

I also have to agree with a few other guys on this board sports is still not even in 1080P let alone 4K. A huge portion of men buy a big TV to watch sports not Marvel comics movies.

I would suggest that before anyone buys a 4k have them play their 720p cable feed on the 4k set and compare that to a 1080P set because this is what's what most of us watch 98% of the time. Then ask yourself is the 4k premium worth it?

Some of the cable companies are saying they are going to offer some limited 4k content at a cost of course. However, satellite and cable companies networks can't even handle all their channels broadcasting in 1080p , so I seriously doubt 4k will be coming any any serous manner for a very long time.

Some have said you can get a 4k dvd player, but how much will that cost? Then how much will the DVD's cost?
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post #23 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
That's the problem why get OCD about pixels that are already very tiny and that at distance with motion become less appreciable ,do you know that a plasma handle motion resolution a lot better than a 4k?

and a 1080p LCD handle better motion resolution than last year 4k? Im not sure about this year but they probably handle better the motion than a 4k but at least some models are including BFI.

what makes special 4k tv is their new integration of spec , HDR ,WCG not the pixels.

I think that you still have time to exchange your HU9000 to a JS you wont regret it ,actually people are right now regretting and many are going to regret for been too fast about buying 4k.

I know that you must be thinking if I had the JS lol.
believe it or not i actually owned a plasma about 5 years ago. i also had 2 LCD's (one with a bulb, the other a flat screen), 1 regular 1080p LED, and 3 4k tvs. my current HU9000 is far and away the best overall set ive had. (the plasma was 42", so it didnt have a big wow factor). i watch ALOT of sports, football, hockey, basketball, and baseball. so far on my current tv i have had ZERO issue with motion on sports. i watched tonights MSU/OU college BB game and it looked spectucular. very clean, very detailed, great motion. and with the new OCB upgrade my tv will have the new 2015 processor which according to alot of owner feedback is greatly improved over 2014 models, i think the tv can keep me pretty happy for the next few years. the people with the most regret are probably though that bought the lower end 4k tvs in 2014, they have very low motion ratings and bad upscale. samsung and sony have both improved upscale and motion on all of their tvs, so i think think you can go wrong buying a 4k 2015 set, you be impressed over whats been affordable the past few years.
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post #24 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 10:01 PM
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Ray is one of the lucky people who are not impacted by motion. That is a good thing for him and people like him. It is a scientific fact that LCD does not produce motions as smooth as plasma - no matter how many hz or motion enhancements on or off there are on a set. I notice motion and so do some other people but many do not and they have a distinct advantage when looking for a set. Anyone who says their LCD or even OLED has as fluid motion as a plasma simply can't detect the difference so for them they are as good.


I can't perceive the difference between a fine wine and a cheap wine - it doesn't mean there isn't one - just that I can't detect it. I would never tell anyone that a March 2015 bottle of Night train is every bit as good as a 1996 chateau lafite Rothschild.


Also there are people who claim they can't detect the difference between 4K and 1080p. Only the original poster will be able to tell what he can and can't detect. Usually threads like this end up being a way for a person on the fence to be "talked into" what they want in the first place. I might post - is it OK to sleep with my girlfriend's sister if I'm about to break up with my girlfriend anyways? I'll get a 100 posts and while the bulk will say not until you break up with your girlfriend first - I'll spot the one that says - it won't matter since you are going to break up with her anyways and that will be all the convincing I need

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post #25 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 10:13 PM
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Ray is one of the lucky people who are not impacted by motion. That is a good thing for him and people like him. It is a scientific fact that LCD does not produce motions as smooth as plasma - no matter how many hz or motion enhancements on or off there are on a set. I notice motion and so do some other people but many do not and they have a distinct advantage when looking for a set. Anyone who says their LCD or even OLED has as fluid motion as a plasma simply can't detect the difference so for them they are as good.


I can't perceive the difference between a fine wine and a cheap wine - it doesn't mean there isn't one - just that I can't detect it. I would never tell anyone that a March 2015 bottle of Night train is every bit as good as a 1996 chateau lafite Rothschild.


Also there are people who claim they can't detect the difference between 4K and 1080p. Only the original poster will be able to tell what he can and can't detect. Usually threads like this end up being a way for a person on the fence to be "talked into" what they want in the first place. I might post - is it OK to sleep with my girlfriend's sister if I'm about to break up with my girlfriend anyways? I'll get a 100 posts and while the bulk will say not until you break up with your girlfriend first - I'll spot the one that says - it won't matter since you are going to break up with her anyways and that will be all the convincing I need
everyone knows plasma has the best motion. but what constitutes "good enough"? i think the tv companies purposely low-balled the motion on the 4k sets of 2014. and samsung has completely switched their motion engine to to the BFI method which the professional reviewers are all saying what a great move it was. i actually am a little sensitive to certain types of motion problems. my first 2 4k tvs, the sony 850b and samsung 8550 had bad motion on those tvs. the sony 850b was very bad while the 8550 was a little better but not much. i returned both of those sets. my current tv has much better motion than either of those. and remember, when i went to buy a new tv, they didnt have plasmas to buy, so like other people, i can only choose between what is offered and what i can afford.

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post #26 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 10:22 PM
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The manufactures are pushing 4k because the profit margins are huge compared to the highly competitive 1080p market.

I also have to agree with a few other guys on this board sports is still not even in 1080P let alone 4K. A huge portion of men buy a big TV to watch sports not Marvel comics movies.

I would suggest that before anyone buys a 4k have them play their 720p cable feed on the 4k set and compare that to a 1080P set because this is what's what most of us watch 98% of the time. Then ask yourself is the 4k premium worth it?

Some of the cable companies are saying they are going to offer some limited 4k content at a cost of course. However, satellite and cable companies networks can't even handle all their channels broadcasting in 1080p , so I seriously doubt 4k will be coming any any serous manner for a very long time.

Some have said you can get a 4k dvd player, but how much will that cost? Then how much will the DVD's cost?
If you get the right 4k tv sports can look great and be very enjoyable.
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post #27 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 10:39 PM
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Sports on an LCD are not enjoyable in any way shape or form. With sports especially, you need high motion clarity, clean high motion clarity. On an LCD you are not going to get this without BFI or interpolation, and usually its done with a mix. The problem with that is not BFI (which is great), but interpolation. No matter what, you get horrible artifacts when you try to create a frame that was never there. I get dizzy and horrible headaches from this, and it makes it unwatchable. Of course, some people seem to not notice the artifacts and claim that "it looks great". A plasma on the other hand, can natively show all 1080 lines of resolution during motion, without any tricks. That is why people who have owned late gen panasonic plasmas (50 series and up) have such a hard time dealing with LCD, and now even OLED (sample and hold? why LG?!). After seeing the review of the new OLED it killed all hope of OLED saving the market for pure picture quality, at least for now.
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post #28 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 10:53 PM
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So that makes me an unlucky person for noticing motion blur very easily .I will have to blame plasma.

ray the pictures do not said anything when it comes to motion blur.

but if you like to show pictures of your display is ok.

Last edited by losservatore; 03-27-2015 at 11:01 PM.
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post #29 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
So that makes me an unlucky person for noticing motion blur very easily .I will have to blame plasma.

ray the pictures do not said anything when it comes to motion blur.

but if you like to show pictures of your display is ok.
Exactly, and its for this reason that so many people don't understand what the big fuss is about. Can you believe that there is a large majority of people who have not viewed a good plasma? In a sense, they are lucky. Ignorance is bliss they say. Its similar to what happened to DLP with me. I never noticed the "rainbow effect", and then someone showed me how to look for it, and now single chip DLP is ruined for me.
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post #30 of 292 Old 03-27-2015, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
So that makes me an unlucky person for noticing motion blur very easily .I will have to blame plasma.

ray the pictures do not said anything when it comes to motion blur.

but if you like to show pictures of your display is ok.
the pictures dont show motion blur, but some people are under the impression that cable tv does not look good on 4k LED tvs compared to 1080P LED tvs, i disagree after having 1st hand experience with both. i have seen some bad LED tvs, but i think they are going in the right direction. i dont see any blurs or panning issues when i watch sports on the best channels, it seems FOX always looks crappy, but when i watch ESPN or TNT sports it looks very 4k-ish so i have no doubt the 2015 tvs will be a big improvement.

just to stir up the pot, my buddy that sold me my tv that is a manager at ABC Warehouse told me that a few months ago his samsung rep told him that samsung is secretly working on a 4K plasma, but he(the rep) wasnt supposed to tell anybody its supposed to be a big secret. it could come out at the end of this year or be displayed at CES next january.

TV; SAMSUNG 65 HU9000+sek3500(current) SAMSUNG 65 8550 4k (30 days) SONY XBR65X850B 4k(owned for 2 weeks), previous was SAMSUNG 65 7100
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