Sony 2015 XBR-55X850C / XBR-65X850C / XBR-75X850C owners club - Page 116 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3451 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
There certainly is some evidence to support that at least the 65 is edge lit... the light bleed or blooming or whatever you want to call it that plagues a lot of 65" sets like mine is a classic symptom of faulty edge lit displays.
While it is more prevalent on edge-lit displays, it is not something that only effects edge lit displays. There certainly were CCFL displays that had backlight spillage.
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post #3452 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by renpar61 View Post
Hello everyone, haven't posted in a while.

I recently bought the 65" and still tinkering with the settings. I'm taking the rtings.com calibration and make some adjustments from there.
To make things worse I also got a new Denon receiver (X3100) which has quite a few video settings of his own, and now I'm very confused.
I used to consider myself very tech savvy, but I guess I'm getting older as technology gets more complicated.
Do you have any suggestions as far as how to set the Denon video features in conjunction with the TV settings? My first instinct was to turn off all video conversions on the receiver and have the TV do the job, but I may be wrong.
Please help...
Leave the Denon alone... just adjust the TV if you need to.


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post #3453 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ktownhero View Post
Yeah, well a torn ACL is a classic symptom of an injured football player, but that doesn't make everyone with a torn ACL a football player.

It's not edge lit. The more energy spent perpetuating that nonsense is less spent trying to address or fix the real problem. If your TV is "plagued" by this issue, and calibrations have in no way helped, then you should return it. Period. Don't keep it and then try to "explain" it by perpetuating myths.
Yes, and just because a sony spec sheet indicates it's direct-lit, doesn't mean it actually is... It wouldn't be the first time in history a spec sheet has been wrong.

However, it doesn't really matter how it's lit... it's clear some sets have something faulty. I think it's unwise to expect a firmware update to fix this issue... so we certainly agree on something... exchange your TV if it's faulty.

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Originally Posted by dalto View Post
While it is more prevalent on edge-lit displays, it is not something that only effects edge lit displays. There certainly were CCFL displays that had backlight spillage.
True.
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post #3454 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
Yes, and just because a sony spec sheet indicates it's direct-lit, doesn't mean it actually is... It wouldn't be the first time in history a spec sheet has been wrong.

However, it doesn't really matter how it's lit... it's clear some sets have something faulty. I think it's unwise to expect a firmware update to fix this issue... so we certainly agree on something... exchange your TV if it's faulty.



True.
In this case, it does. It's a direct lit display. Hemming and hawing otherwise is just a huge waste of energy, and it's already consumed huge portions of this thread. I don't mean it personally at all, it's just that it's tiring.

"Edge bleed" just means light is bleeding over the edge of the display, where it shouldn't. There's no such thing as "middle bleed" because there's nowhere in the middle of the display for light to bleed, unless you rip a hole in the LCD panel. The edges are the ONLY opportunity for light to bleed, no matter what the type of lighting ultimately is. It's not a sign that the TV is edge lit, it's just something that happens to be more prevelant on edge-lit displays just because of how they are built physically.

Nevertheless, as has been discussed previously, I really don't think this is "edge bleed" at all. I think part of it is the fact that it's a VA panel and some people sit so close that the edges of the TV are off-angle enough that you get color shift. I also think there genuinely are some bad cases where the brightness or color shift of the edges is just broken. In those cases, the TV should be returned. I also think there are a lot of people that get buyer's remorse real fast and look for ways to get "out" of the money they spent. And I totally understand that feeling. But when it starts venturing into the territory of just making stuff up, then it's frustrating. And that frustration comes from much earlier in this thread where there were just flat-out trolls making stuff up about this TV.

But I digress...

If you want to see what edge bleed looks like on an edge lit display, take a look at the utter trash people are seeing on the X900C.
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post #3455 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 01:18 PM
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I would really be curious to find out where most of the bad 65" were purchased. Given now that BB is no longer currently selling 900c's because they have been all recalled by Sony, it makes me wonder whether BB is the victim of the faulty sets. I was told that BB is the largest purchaser of Sony sets, so the chances are they may have more of them.

At least if we could track who sold the most of these, it might give further clues as to who to avoid purchasing from.
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post #3456 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cibo View Post
I would really be curious to find out where most of the bad 65" were purchased. Given now that BB is no longer currently selling 900c's because they have been all recalled by Sony, it makes me wonder whether BB is the victim of the faulty sets. I was told that BB is the largest purchaser of Sony sets, so the chances are they may have more of them.

At least if we could track who sold the most of these, it might give further clues as to who to avoid purchasing from.
Oops, I read too fast. To be clear, I have a good set and got it from Sony.


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Last edited by ktownhero; 08-19-2015 at 01:28 PM.
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post #3457 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ktownhero View Post
Oops, I read too fast. To be clear, I have a good set and got it from Sony.


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My set is also good and I got it from Best Buy (Florida)...perhaps I just got lucky for a change.
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post #3458 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 02:25 PM
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I am heading out to pick up the 55x850c. Does anyone know if a different brand of 3d glasses work with this model? I really don't want to plunk down the crazy cash for the sony's.
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post #3459 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by darwin619 View Post
I am heading out to pick up the 55x850c. Does anyone know if a different brand of 3d glasses work with this model? I really don't want to plunk down the crazy cash for the sony's.
The inexpensive Samsung ones

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post #3460 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by darwin619 View Post
I am heading out to pick up the 55x850c. Does anyone know if a different brand of 3d glasses work with this model? I really don't want to plunk down the crazy cash for the sony's.
The Samsung SSG-5150GB, Samsung SSG-3100GB and Panasonic TY-ER3D4MU should all work with 2015 Sony Active 3D TVs. I have some Mitsubishi glasses I haven't tested yet.

The 5150GBs are a little annoying because they don't fold though.
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post #3461 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 02:40 PM
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It looks like now someone has started a separate thread for the 55" model. Perhaps it might be time to change this to just the 65" since there is already a thread for the 75".
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post #3462 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktownhero View Post
In this case, it does. It's a direct lit display. Hemming and hawing otherwise is just a huge waste of energy, and it's already consumed huge portions of this thread. I don't mean it personally at all, it's just that it's tiring.

"Edge bleed" just means light is bleeding over the edge of the display, where it shouldn't. There's no such thing as "middle bleed" because there's nowhere in the middle of the display for light to bleed, unless you rip a hole in the LCD panel. The edges are the ONLY opportunity for light to bleed, no matter what the type of lighting ultimately is. It's not a sign that the TV is edge lit, it's just something that happens to be more prevelant on edge-lit displays just because of how they are built physically.

Nevertheless, as has been discussed previously, I really don't think this is "edge bleed" at all. I think part of it is the fact that it's a VA panel and some people sit so close that the edges of the TV are off-angle enough that you get color shift. I also think there genuinely are some bad cases where the brightness or color shift of the edges is just broken. In those cases, the TV should be returned. I also think there are a lot of people that get buyer's remorse real fast and look for ways to get "out" of the money they spent. And I totally understand that feeling. But when it starts venturing into the territory of just making stuff up, then it's frustrating. And that frustration comes from much earlier in this thread where there were just flat-out trolls making stuff up about this TV.

But I digress...

If you want to see what edge bleed looks like on an edge lit display, take a look at the utter trash people are seeing on the X900C.
If you think it's frustrating reading about it, you should try dealing with it... It's not fun to get an expensive $2-3K TV with an issue, have to go through Sony or your retailer to get it replaced and all the disruption that comes with it. Frustration is putting it mildly. And until Sony does something, I suspect we're going to hear a lot more about it in this thread... we're 2 months into the model year on these sets. Just wait. I think if you've got a good set the best thing you can do is encourage people to replace their set and give them hope that not all 65" models are plagued with this issue.

And for anyone prone to having buyer's remorse on a multi-thousand dollar purchase, it's not surprising to see that get amplified when they get a set with visual issues like this.

And for the record, the reason I've gone so far on investigating this, is not for my own benefit... I'm getting a new TV... but for those who are patiently waiting (likely in vain) for Sony to issue a firmware update that will solve this problem... I just don't see that happening.

Anyway, I'm done with the issue for now. But I suspect we've not heard the last of it.
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post #3463 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cibo View Post
It looks like now someone has started a separate thread for the 55" model. Perhaps it might be time to change this to just the 65" since there is already a thread for the 75".
Or even better convince a moderator to merge them back together again.
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post #3464 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 03:07 PM
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So my problem is happening again, and I don't know why. From my previous post:

"So I have an X850C and when streaming content that is anything but 16:9, the image appears tall and narrow. Especially obvious on round objects. I have done some preliminary research and I've found out that I may have to re-encode files for the proper aspect ratio? The images by default appear letter boxed, but when I select the "expand" option, the letterboxes disappear and its actually just been covering the rest of the image, yet it is still squished. If there is a way to fix this without re-encoding media, great. If not, I have no idea where to start and could really use some guidance. Thanks!"

Now I came back the next day and it seemed to have fixed itself. But now the problem is back and persistent. I've also noticed that it starts all videos out at 16:9, regardless of their native aspect ration. Additionally, when I fast forward, the letter boxes come up with the progress bar and don't go away. There is no longer even an "expand" option in the action menu. I am very confused and frustrated. Am I indeed going to have to re-encode all my videos? I kind of cant believe there isn't a solution, especially since it seemed to work itself out initially. The aspect ration is set to "Wide" in settings.
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post #3465 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 03:26 PM
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So my problem is happening again, and I don't know why. From my previous post:

"So I have an X850C and when streaming content that is anything but 16:9, the image appears tall and narrow. Especially obvious on round objects. I have done some preliminary research and I've found out that I may have to re-encode files for the proper aspect ratio? The images by default appear letter boxed, but when I select the "expand" option, the letterboxes disappear and its actually just been covering the rest of the image, yet it is still squished. If there is a way to fix this without re-encoding media, great. If not, I have no idea where to start and could really use some guidance. Thanks!"

Now I came back the next day and it seemed to have fixed itself. But now the problem is back and persistent. I've also noticed that it starts all videos out at 16:9, regardless of their native aspect ration. Additionally, when I fast forward, the letter boxes come up with the progress bar and don't go away. There is no longer even an "expand" option in the action menu. I am very confused and frustrated. Am I indeed going to have to re-encode all my videos? I kind of cant believe there isn't a solution, especially since it seemed to work itself out initially. The aspect ration is set to "Wide" in settings.
What are you using to play your content?
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post #3466 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 03:34 PM
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What are you using to play your content?
PS3 Media Server on a Windows 7 PC over wi-fi
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post #3467 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 03:41 PM
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Now I came back the next day and it seemed to have fixed itself. But now the problem is back and persistent. I've also noticed that it starts all videos out at 16:9, regardless of their native aspect ration. Additionally, when I fast forward, the letter boxes come up with the progress bar and don't go away. There is no longer even an "expand" option in the action menu. I am very confused and frustrated. Am I indeed going to have to re-encode all my videos? I kind of cant believe there isn't a solution, especially since it seemed to work itself out initially. The aspect ration is set to "Wide" in settings.
What are you using on the TV to play them? Kodi, the Android Videos app, etc?
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post #3468 of 13887 Old 08-19-2015, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mxsledder View Post

I'm very interested in buying the 75" version of this TV.

...Are you satisfied with your 850C?


My brother is very satisfied with his 75" X850C TV with its 'Tri-Luminati' array of colors.

From my brief encounter with it so far, indeed I can see color hues beyond what I see with my Vizio P50 - but for the P50's price-point... it's a wonderful TV in its own class.




.

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post #3469 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 12:56 AM
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I bought the 55 inch from BB today and I have some pretty nasty light bleed or whatever you want to call it in the bottom right corner. It's extra bright compared to the rest of the screen, the middle of the tv is similarly bright. It's not even just noticeable on black backgrounds. Noticeable on any type of dark scene. Sucks I feel like I jinxed myself stressing out about getting a good unit before I even went to the store. Now I gotta take this thing back. -_-



Tv seems great besides that! minus the weird error I keep getting telling me blahblah has stopped working.
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post #3470 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtualrain View Post
If you think it's frustrating reading about it, you should try dealing with it... It's not fun to get an expensive $2-3K TV with an issue, have to go through Sony or your retailer to get it replaced and all the disruption that comes with it. Frustration is putting it mildly. And until Sony does something, I suspect we're going to hear a lot more about it in this thread... we're 2 months into the model year on these sets. Just wait. I think if you've got a good set the best thing you can do is encourage people to replace their set and give them hope that not all 65" models are plagued with this issue.

And for anyone prone to having buyer's remorse on a multi-thousand dollar purchase, it's not surprising to see that get amplified when they get a set with visual issues like this.

And for the record, the reason I've gone so far on investigating this, is not for my own benefit... I'm getting a new TV... but for those who are patiently waiting (likely in vain) for Sony to issue a firmware update that will solve this problem... I just don't see that happening.

Anyway, I'm done with the issue for now. But I suspect we've not heard the last of it.
It's not frustrating reading about people having an issue. It's frustrating reading about people with the issue, who, instead of returning it and chalking it up to getting a bad one, hold onto it and start making garbage up to try to make sense out if it like saying it's edge lit.

You got a bad one, sorry to hear that. But that doesn't mean there's some systemic issue with the TV or that the listed specs are wrong. There's quality variation in all products, LCD TVs being near the top of that list.

There's a fundamental lack of understanding regarding two things in this thread, particularly related to the 65", that annoy me. The first is that people are forgetting that direct lit LCDs went away for a while and are making more of a comeback this year. So, when they see an issue that has NOTHING to do with the type of backlight in the TV, but looks similar to a common issue with edge lit displays, they pull out their jump to conclusions mat, and muck up this thread over and over and over again.

The second is a lack of understanding of how statistics work, related to the sample size of the sizes of this TV sold. Based on this thread alone, it's ABUNDANTLY Clear that the 65" is the most popular model. So, with that, the amount of complaints may be higher but still in proportion to the other sizes. I mean, we've had many 65" owners in here, most of which are extremely happy, some of which aren't. We've had a handful of 55" owners, with a similar experience but on a smaller scale. The 75" is hard to judge because there are literally like 3 owners of it in here.

tl;dr: the sky isn't falling, life just isn't perfect. Swap out your set and get a better one, or go buy a new TV, but please, for the love of God, don't keep a bad TV and then mire us with all of your woes and make up misinformation. Search back through the thread for tampabuc posts, for an example of what I'm talking about.

EDIT: And don't take an uncalibrated TV and make the decision, because I've had numerous PMs and responses in this thread of people in this thread who went from "concerned" to "ecstatic" about their set after using my settings.

And #1 sign that the issue is NOT edge bleed is that you can have the backlight on full blast and you'll never see it on an all black image. "light bleed" isn't something that is scene-situational. It's a PHYSICAL leak of light.

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Last edited by ktownhero; 08-20-2015 at 01:22 AM.
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post #3471 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 01:18 AM
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Many posts back I provided some settings for the picture modes of these TVs and many liked them. I then adjusted them a bit and got and even better response. Well, folks, I'd like to now share with you my most recent settings which I am far and away the most impressed with so far. These settings took my set from "really nice" to "holy crap", IMO.

I would like to, first and foremost, provide credit where credit is due: these settings are based on (and primarily consist of) the calibration settings provided by FlatPanelsHD in their review of the X85C I can't stress enough that all credit should really go to them. All I've done is adapted them slightly to create two modes for day/night/mood viewing.

***New Settings***

Anything in bold has been adjusted by me, everything else is all credit due to FlatPanelsHD.

Quote:

Picture Mode: Cinema Pro
Backlight (Brightness): 10
Light Sensor: On
Gamma: -2
Black Level: 50
Black Adjustment: Low
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: LowColor: 50
Color Balance: 0
Color Temp: Expert 1
Color Spectrum: sRGB/BT.709

Adv. color temp settings
Red Preset: -1
Green Preset: -3
Blue Preset: -5
Red Bias: 3
Green Bias: 0
Blue Bias: -3
Live Color: Off
Sharpness: 50
Reality Creation: Manual
Resolution: 20
Mastered in 4k: On, if available
Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Random Noise Reduction: Off
MotionFlow: TrueCinema
CineMotion (formerly Film Mode): Medium
Then, I copied ALL of the same settings to Cinema Home and set them up separately as follows (only showing what I changed):

Picture Mode: Cinema Home
Backlight (Brightness): Max
Gamma: 0
Black Adjustment: Medium
Advanced Contrast Enhancer: Medium
Live Color: High
MotionFlow: Clear

Also, it's worth noting that I keep the light sensor ON because I find that it dramatically improves the black level of the TV. FlatPanelsHD's original settings didn't mention it, but I keep it on. For the Cinema Home setting I sometimes turn it OFF to get extra brightness that is lost due to using Clear. Not really an issue typically with max brightness, but sometimes you want that extra pop.

I've been floored watching all content, especially 4k, using both of these modes with these settings. All thanks to FlatPanelsHD for the color adjustments, I am not good at doing those by myself.
Forgive me for being dense. I just picked up the TV, and I have settings like contrast that aren't addressed in your settings. Am I missing something?

Thanks.
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post #3472 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 01:19 AM
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Forgive me for being dense. I just picked up the TV, and I have settings like contrast that aren't addressed in your settings. Am I missing something?

Thanks.
Use the default setting for anything not listed.

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post #3473 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 01:39 AM
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this is what I am seeing:



(note: this is also the face I'm making when I see the blooming)





Edit: I contacted Sony and they replied that this blooming is "within the specifications". That's a very cheap way to deal with such a problem!

Edit2: ok, this is getting interesting: I talked to a Sony-service person on the phone, he explained to me that the TV is direct-lit, but not background-lit! direct-lit means the backlight is coming directly from behind but that doesn't mean that it's across the whole panel, it's just on the left and right side of the screen and that's what is causing the blooming. I don't know that to think about that, for me that doesn't make sense at all. I'm trying to find out now if I can return the TV.

Edit3: yes, I'm talking about the 65" version
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post #3474 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 06:17 AM
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this is what I am seeing:



(note: this is also the face I'm making when I see the blooming)





Edit: I contacted Sony and they replied that this blooming is "within the specifications". That's a very cheap way to deal with such a problem!

Edit2: ok, this is getting interesting: I talked to a Sony-service person on the phone, he explained to me that the TV is direct-lit, but not background-lit! direct-lit means the backlight is coming directly from behind but that doesn't mean that it's across the whole panel, it's just on the left and right side of the screen and that's what is causing the blooming. I don't know that to think about that, for me that doesn't make sense at all. I'm trying to find out now if I can return the TV.

Edit3: yes, I'm talking about the 65" version
Yeah what you're seeing in those pics is no bueno. I wouldn't take what the Sony rep said too seriously, those first tier people just make **** up to placate you. Their job is to "filter" how many people make it through to talk to the people that actually know anything. And they'll likely just offer a replacement or upgrade option before even letting you through to tier 2.

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post #3475 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 06:41 AM
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MJFox --- Sorry to see you have the issue ---

Can you provide your settings with regards to ktownhero's settings --

Backlight (Brightness): 10
Light Sensor: On
Gamma: -2
Black Level: 50
Black Adjustment: Low
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: LowColor: 50

Thanks.
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post #3476 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 07:11 AM
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Why doesn't someone just disassemble the 65" and post pictures to put and end to all the speculation and corresponding annoyances.

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post #3477 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by MJFox View Post
Edit2: ok, this is getting interesting: I talked to a Sony-service person on the phone, he explained to me that the TV is direct-lit, but not background-lit! direct-lit means the backlight is coming directly from behind but that doesn't mean that it's across the whole panel, it's just on the left and right side of the screen and that's what is causing the blooming. I don't know that to think about that, for me that doesn't make sense at all. I'm trying to find out now if I can return the TV.
That makes perfect sense. However, if that is really the case there is no firmware fix for that.
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post #3478 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cibo View Post
MJFox --- Sorry to see you have the issue ---

Can you provide your settings with regards to ktownhero's settings --

Backlight (Brightness): 10
Light Sensor: On
Gamma: -2
Black Level: 50
Black Adjustment: Low
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: LowColor: 50

Thanks.
sorry, I can not tell anymore, I just brought it back and got a refund

but the blooming was there with all kind of settings... the only way to reduce it significantly was to set black level to 37 or below... but this made the picture very dark and removed all details in dark scenes

now I need to find a new TV
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post #3479 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 07:24 AM
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That makes perfect sense. However, if that is really the case there is no firmware fix for that.
IMO it makes no sense to call a panel direct lit if the backlight is just on the sides... what's the difference to a edge light then?
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post #3480 of 13887 Old 08-20-2015, 07:30 AM
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IMO it makes no sense to call a panel direct lit if the backlight is just on the sides... what's the difference to a edge light then?
An edge lit TV has the lighting around the edge. In this case, if that turns out to be true, it means there is are two larger light sources behind the panel. I didn't interpret that to mean they are on the edges but that one was on the left side of the TV and one on the right side of the TV.

This is as opposed to other lighting system which have lots of smaller lights spread out all over the back of the TV.

Last edited by dalto; 08-20-2015 at 12:33 PM.
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