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Oh how the mighty have fallen.

2K views 52 replies 20 participants last post by  markrubin 
#1 ·
Let me debunk the Myth that an equivalent Sony TV offers better picture quality than the 60% less expensive Vizio TV with some simple cold hard facts and test results.

From the Sony XBR55X850C review on rtings.com
Contrast:
Sony X850C = 9.1
Vizio M60 = 9.2

Black Uniformity:
Sony X850C = 9.3
Vizio M60 = 9.5

Gray Uniformity:
Sony X850C = 5.5
Vizio M60 = 5.9

Upscaling:
Sony X850C = 7.0 for 480p and 720p, 9.0 for 1080p
Vizio M60 = 7.5 for 480p and 720p, 9.0 for 1080p

Input Lag:
Sony X850C = 8.2
Vizio M60 = 9.9


Overall the Sony is a 7.9 and the Vizio is an 8.0 according to rtings.com

In fairness the Sony does do some things better. For instance its 3D is very good and you can’t get 3D at all on the Vizio. The Sony Bezel is very thin. In addition the viewing angle is inconsequentially better.

However, 4:4:4 only works at 4K @ 30 FPS on the Sony just like the Vizio M-series. The review makes it look like 4:4:4 works on the Sony at a quick glance and not on the Vizio when both Tvs actually work the same.

Really, the bashing of Vizio with no real evidence to back up those claims just has to stop. There are very valid reasons to buy the Sony in this example over the Vizio. For instance 3D is very important to some people. 1080p @ 120 FPS won’t work on the Vizio in sizes smaller than 60”. And the stand of the Sony is not as wide.

That being said you can’t possibly say that picture quality is better with the Sony. At the very least they are equals. However, the Sony most definitely is at least 60% more expensive in the 55” size than the Vizio.

I really wish that everyone would just stick to what works and what doesn’t work with these TVs in the forum and not blindly promote one TV over another simply because of the brand name.

Sony Review on rtings.com
http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/sony/x850c

Vizio Review on rtings.com
http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/vizio/m-series-2015

There are situations where I would recommend both of these TVs. Both are great sets. However, when it comes to picture quality it is quite clear which one is better even regardless of price in this case.
 
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#4 ·
No doubt, fanboys at it again.
 
#5 ·
How do color gamut and motion handling compare?

At the end of the day, the X850 is a pretty mediocre set on paper, so I'm not surprised that the Vizio can compete. I have a feeling that the Vizio would get crushed against an X950B, X930C, or X940C though, which are really the only Sony models that demand attention for 2015.
 
#22 ·
I have a feeling that the Vizio would get crushed against an X950B, X930C, or X940C though, which are really the only Sony models that demand attention for 2015.
Just wait and we will see. I have a feeling that those sets will rate higher than the Vizio M but not by enough to justify anywhere near their price differences.
 
#7 ·
That review site is interesting - on one hand, it is very fair, since it uses metrics that are calculated - no "gut feeling" reviews.

On the other hand, metrics are only as good as the metrics you pick. (I'm not criticizing rting.com, as obviously it cannot measure everything. However, the things it does not measure makes some difference)

I would argue the Sony x850C has 3 main advantages that are not measured by rtings.com:

1. Color
There is no measure of color, range or accuracy, at all. A black and white set with great contrast and good gray uniformity could score an 8.0 on rtings.com! :D

So, one of the biggest advantages of quantom dots, found on top of the line Samsung's and Sony's, including the X850C, is that it produces richer, more accurate colors. This is something you can immediately see in a showroom, with a Vizio side-by-side with a Song or Samsung. Since this is not measured by rting.com, this advantage over the Visio set is not reflected in the score.

2. Reliability
Is Visio as reliable as Sony or Samsung? I don't know, you'd have to look at return rates, and other measurable statistics to see. My gut is that Visio has some work here to catch up to Sony and Samsung, given their issues with 2014 models and previous year models.

Maybe in 5 years, 10 years, Visio's would be as reliable, but right now, just looking at the 1 star reviews for Visio TV sets vs Sony or Samsung sets, TV's breaking in less than 5 years seems far more common for Visio, while rare for Sony/Samsung. Reliability is something we only know 5 years down the road - no one knows what the quality of the 2015 Sony or Visio. However, just like cars, reliability of Honda's are rated high due to them putting out good models, year after year. Sony and Samsung have earned their reputations, much like Toyota or Honda.

3. Features
Actually, rtings.com does give a score for features, where Sony beats the Visio 7.0 vs 5.8. Given that Sony is running the open Android platform, the advantage will only grow.
This score is not used in the final total score (7.9 vs 8.0), so this advantage is hidden.



To be fair, there is a fourth issue rtings.com doesn't cover, and this hugely favors Visio - PRICE.

4. PRICE
Even with the Sale going on with the Sony X850C's, you can get a 70 inch Visio for less than a 65 inch Sony. And that, I agree, is a darn good deal!
 
#32 ·
3. Features
Actually, rtings.com does give a score for features, where Sony beats the Visio 7.0 vs 5.8. Given that Sony is running the open Android platform, the advantage will only grow.
This score is not used in the final total score (7.9 vs 8.0), so this advantage is hidden.
Is the lack of Netflix a Feature people enjoy? To be fair though the Vizio lacks VP9 support for 4K youtube which is a real bummer in my opinion. Doesn't affect people who won't watch anything on youtube though and that actually is a lot of people.
 
#40 ·
I wouldn't buy a vizio, but let's be fair. we have extreme sony fanboys and sony employees/ex-employees at avs too.

Something's got to give with sony though. their tv division is in the tank. How much longer before they through in the towel? And Vizio is doing quite well and about to go public.
 
#12 ·
Upscaling:
Sony X850C = 7.0 for 480p and 720p, 9.0 for 1080p
Vizio M60 = 7.5 for 480p and 720p, 9.0 for 1080p

What century are we in? I'm sure we're really going to dazzle the DVD viewers with that little nugget. They're going to buy Vizio sets anyway.


Not knocking Vizio - they do OK. But this isn't a total comparison, and the failures of this post are pointed out by several previous responses.
 
#21 ·
The point is that people on this board continuously praise the Sony TVs for their upscaling across the board and yet this particular Sony TV doesn't excel in that respect for any format.
 
#13 ·
The LCD subforum here at AVS seems to be divided into two different camps defined by budget. Sony and Samsung make the best LCD sets on the market, but those sets are expensive and budget buyers aren't even thinking about them. I think this leads quite a few in one camp to remark about the quality of Vizio vs Sony/Samsung while those from the other camp know that Vizio doesn't match the quality of high-end Sony/Samsung.

It almost feels as though the LCD display portion of this forum should be divided into two categories much like the Digital Projection Subforms, having both sub/above 3K subforms.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Parts is parts. One thing we know about Vizio. They don't make ANY parts. Do they buy these parts based on quality or price? Since their main selling feature is low price then most assume that is also the prioity they place on parts. Now Sony also buys panels and other parts from outside vendors, as does Samsung to a lesser degree. But both Sony and Samsung make at least some of their own parts, so we assume, rightly or wrongly, that quality is of some priority. Vizio is not the only other company that makes none of their own parts. There's also Westinghouse, Sansui, RCA. Not electronic giants you necessarily want to be compared to. Vizio has come a long way and getting better quality is just a matter of buying better parts. They could build a clone of the Sharp Elite if they wanted to. Very expensive parts me thinks.
 
#16 ·
^^^^^ excellent points. I've been burned by Vizio twice so I'm a big jaded. Never had a problem with RCA (my first color tv in college), Sony, LG (our current main tv) and Samsung (we have two, bedroom and garage). It's fair to say that all mfrs have their issues. No one has a perfect track record. And a lot of folks who post here usually have issues or complaints so the metrics can be skewed a bit. That being said, I've been on this board for a long time and it seems that the bulk of complaints are Vizio owners (the Firmware 1.60 thread comes to mind). However, when it comes time to buy a new tv, I will look at Vizio just to keep my options open.
 
#17 ·
Agree. I have a 4 year old 32" Vizio in a bedroom. I doubt it has 50 hours on it total. I always tell people to establish a budget then shop within that budget and go as big as possible without sacrificing PQ. Features like smart and 3d play a factor. It's also wise to understand the difference between VA and IPS panels.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I knew you guys wouldn’t see it the way I did. That is OK. I will never convince you guys that the 2015 Vizio TVs aren’t the same TVs they made last year. However, here are a couple of interesting facts about the mid range Sony TVs that I find very intriguing.

Remember as you read this that almost all of the opinions on this board about Vizio are based on how the Vizio TVs performed last year and the years before that.

That being said the 2015 Vizio M-series TV scored a respectable 8.0 on rtings while the 2014 M-series was an entirely different TV and scored a slightly lower 7.9.

However, the 2014 Sony W850B scored an amazing 8.5 but the 2015 Sony X850C only managed a 7.9.

What this means is that the 2014 Sony W850B was a very good TV for that time but the 2015 X850C is not as stand out a TV this year. Evenly the low end Sony W600B from last year outscored(8.0) the brand new and much more expensive 4K X850C this year.

My whole point all along has been that the 2015 Vizio TVs have bucked the trend that built a bad reputation for Vizio and that the 2015 Sony X850C is not the exemplary TV that the 2014 W850B was.

I still think that the X850C has some pluses to it and those were mentioned above. However, the blatant Vizio bashing without facts to back it up is getting exposed and not just by me. Reviews like the one at rtings.com will show that the Vizio TVs are truly great options in their price range and even in price ranges much higher.

The diehard fans of other brands will never waiver and that is ok. They will be happy with their TVs simply because almost every TV made in 2015 will be a decent TV. However, more and more people will realize that Vizio offers not only a great bang for your buck but also outstanding performance, picture quality, and features.
 
#23 ·
This is like trying to justify that a Dodge dart is better than a corvette because it gets better gas milage. You pay for the name, and for the best performance, not to mention better warranty service if something breaks. If you want the best, your going to pay for it. If you don't NEED the best, there are definitely cheaper yet decent alternatives.
 
#24 ·
Actually it is like comparing a Kia to Honda. Both cars offer very similar driving experience, performance, and warranty. However, the Kia will almost certainly cost thousands less unless you get the Honda with the smaller engine or without leather.

The only real issue with the Kia is resell value and the simple fact that owning a Kia isn’t as cool as owning a Honda. People will buy Hondas and be happy and people will buy Kias and be happy.
 
#25 ·
First of all you're lumping the 2014 x850b in one catagory but the 70x850b was the only x850b that used a VA panel and was Active 3d. Totally different than the 49,55,and 65. Secondly you're looking at a review of the 2015 55x850c which is also quite different than the 65 and 75 inch models. When we get some serious reviews of the 65 and 75x850c's then we can see how they compare. FYI, there is nothing similar between the Honda and Kia warranties.
 
#27 ·
FYI, there is nothing similar between the Honda and Kia warranties.

Yes the Kia warranty appears to last a whole lot longer but some people will still say the Honda warranty is better.
 
#38 ·
That actually is a valid reason not to buy a Vizio. If you are simply buying based on prestige then I completely understand why you are paying more for the TV. I don't agree with it but at least that would be an honest reason why you are buying it instead of saying "This Tv is simply better because it is just better".
 
#50 ·
I never said that Vizio is better than any other brand. Some of their TVs are better than some TVs made by other brands and some aren’t. I simply said that the Vizio M-series exceeds the picture quality of the Sony X850C and that rtings.com rates it higher overall and in most of the categories they tested.

I get the satisfaction of knowing that I did my part in explaining what these Tvs can and cannot do to try to prevent other consumers from purchasing a TV based on misinformation.

I do not work for Vizio and I would consider buying a TV from any brand if the merits of that individual TV warrant it, if that is what you were implying.

I have one more large TV to buy for my home Theater and I would consider any Tv and any brand for that room as long as it fits my budget. However, for the time being I haven’t seen any information that would suggest there is a better 4K 75”-80” option for under $5000 than the 2015 Vizio M80-C3.
 
#52 ·
This thread is borderline useless without pictures of side by sides or videos. Rtings is a nice site, but he is not the end all be all. The 1 picture that he provides for upscaling is absolutely pointless. It does not represent how different than sources of blu ray or cable tv will look on the tv. When I had the x850b, different channels looked different. A side by side would be the ONLY way to judge. Without seeing either of the new tvs, I'd put my money on sony but I'm open to at least seeing the shootout!
 
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