Samsung/Sony are supporting HDR on all 2015 TV's - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Samsung/Sony are supporting HDR on all 2015 TV's

Samsung is supporting HDR on all 2015 tv's yes that means JU series Too. Sony made a similar announcement yesterday.


“Samsung will issue a firmware update that will enable its 2015 SUHD and UHD TVs to display a broader library of High Dynamic Range (HDR) content now from external devices. HDR delivers a much higher level of contrast between light and dark to produce an image that is more realistic and closer to what the content creator imagined. The firmware update is available now at no additional cost to owners of 2015 Samsung SUHD and UHD TV’s.” wrote Samsung

This also means that Samsung’s “regular” Ultra HD TVs will be capable of reading HDR content. Sony also announced at IFA that it will add HDR support to its entire 2015 Ultra HD TV line-up.
- “Samsung provides cutting-edge technology that our consumers expect from an industry leader, and our SUHD TV’s are our best ever” said John Ryu, vice president of the visual display business at Samsung Electronics.
- “While our 2015 SUHD and UHD TV lines are already capable of delivering HDR capability from internal sources such as streaming services, this firmware update will enlarge the spectrum of available HDR content for our customers.”

HDMI 2.0a will be supported by all 2015 SUHD and UHD TVs via a firmware update, says Samsung. You can use your existing HDMI cables.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...with+HDMI+2_0a

So basically all 2015 Samsung sets can play HDR and quality is dependant on tv's capabilities .

Same goes for Sony

Sony Europe today announced that it is bringing High Dynamic Range (HDR) compatibility to more of its 4K Ultra HD televisions. In addition to the previously announced X94C and X93C series, Sony is also adding HDR compatibility to the X91C, X90C, X85C and S85C series via a network update[1]. Sony is working with streaming video providers such as Amazon Video to bring customers movies and TV shows in HDR (High Dynamic Range), a premium technology which generates deeper blacks, brighter peaks, and richer colour tones.
http://presscentre.sony.eu/pressrele...hd-tvs-1208534



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Last edited by player002; 09-03-2015 at 07:06 AM.
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post #2 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 08:28 PM
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Great news for 2015 owners, now if it can be done via firmware, why the hell can't LG do it for its 2015 lineup?

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post #3 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Great news for 2015 owners, now if it can be done via firmware, why the hell can't LG do it for its 2015 lineup?
The Samsung's and Sony's use HDMI silicon chip 9777 That's why.
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post #4 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 09:07 PM
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The Samsung's and Sony's use HDMI silicon chip 9777 That's why.
The reason I ask is because I have come across a real good deal on the eg9600 but that's what's holding me back. HDR via HDMI. Oh well, I guess it's the ef9500 how I always planned.

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post #5 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The reason I ask is because I have come across a real good deal on the eg9600 but that's what's holding me back. HDR via HDMI. Oh well, I guess it's the ef9500 how I always planned.
Think its 9700 and up for HDR update via HDMI. I want to see the panny Oled so badly.
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post #6 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 09:21 PM
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Think its 9700 and up for HDR update via HDMI. I want to see the panny Oled so badly.
EG9600 has the HDR but it's internal only. Yeah you and I both.

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post #7 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 09:32 PM
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Does this also mean official HDR support for the 2015 SEK-3500 OCB?
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post #8 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 09:59 PM
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nice of both companies to throw you a bone, but i'm not sure it'll really make much of an image quality difference with these lower range TVs.

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post #9 of 41 Old 09-03-2015, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Actaeon View Post
Does this also mean official HDR support for the 2015 SEK-3500 OCB?
It already has official support M-go has acknowledged sek 3500u is required with 2014 tv's for HDR playback. But yes this would include sek 3500u but we know this already as it is playing hdr flawlessly already with peak illuminator pro !
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post #10 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 06:26 AM
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It already has official support M-go has acknowledged sek 3500u is required with 2014 tv's for HDR playback. But yes this would include sek 3500u but we know this already as it is playing hdr flawlessly already with peak illuminator pro !
Yeah yo might get HDR with the older and non SUHD sets but you wont have Wider color Gamut because only the SUHD sets have quantum dots. Also the HDR on older and non SUHD sets wont be as good.
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post #11 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 06:47 AM
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The wording in the Sony announcement is very interesting. Sony didn't say the TVs would display HDR content, they only said the TVs would be compatible with HDR content. Samsung on the other hand is more clear and explicit about their TVs being able to display HDR content. I guess we'll need to wait for some field tests...

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post #12 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by robert9674 View Post
Yeah yo might get HDR with the older and non SUHD sets but you wont have Wider color Gamut because only the SUHD sets have quantum dots. Also the HDR on older and non SUHD sets wont be as good.
This only applies to 2015 sets 2014 sets without sek 3500u will not get hdr different chip and not possible. The 2014 9000/8700 and 8550 have wcg already the suhd has 10% more colour
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post #13 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 08:35 AM
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It already has official support M-go has acknowledged sek 3500u is required with 2014 tv's for HDR playback. But yes this would include sek 3500u but we know this already as it is playing hdr flawlessly already with peak illuminator pro !
Thanks, I knew it could do it, but didn't realize it was officially supported.

What about HDMI 2.0a for the 3500U OCB?
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post #14 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 10:19 AM
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Wow, what a nice bonus for my X850C!!!
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post #15 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 10:57 AM
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Wow, what a nice bonus for my X850C!!!
For those of you in the US it is quite possible that you already have the update, at least for non-HDMI HDR.

We just need to find a working copy of the HDR clips for one of the X850C owners to test.
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post #16 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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For those of you in the US it is quite possible that you already have the update, at least for non-HDMI HDR.

We just need to find a working copy of the HDR clips for one of the X850C owners to test.
I can't link the clips anymore but a google search will point u in ybe right direction of obtaining the 2 Sample clips..
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post #17 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 01:43 PM
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Samsung is supporting HDR on all 2015 tv's yes that means JU series Too. Sony made a similar announcement yesterday.


“Samsung will issue a firmware update that will enable its 2015 SUHD and UHD TVs to display a broader library of High Dynamic Range (HDR) content now from external devices. HDR delivers a much higher level of contrast between light and dark to produce an image that is more realistic and closer to what the content creator imagined. The firmware update is available now at no additional cost to owners of 2015 Samsung SUHD and UHD TV’s.” wrote Samsung

This also means that Samsung’s “regular” Ultra HD TVs will be capable of reading HDR content. Sony also announced at IFA that it will add HDR support to its entire 2015 Ultra HD TV line-up.
- “Samsung provides cutting-edge technology that our consumers expect from an industry leader, and our SUHD TV’s are our best ever” said John Ryu, vice president of the visual display business at Samsung Electronics.
- “While our 2015 SUHD and UHD TV lines are already capable of delivering HDR capability from internal sources such as streaming services, this firmware update will enlarge the spectrum of available HDR content for our customers.”

HDMI 2.0a will be supported by all 2015 SUHD and UHD TVs via a firmware update, says Samsung. You can use your existing HDMI cables.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...with+HDMI+2_0a

So basically all 2015 Samsung sets can play HDR and quality is dependant on tv's capabilities .

Same goes for Sony

Sony Europe today announced that it is bringing High Dynamic Range (HDR) compatibility to more of its 4K Ultra HD televisions. In addition to the previously announced X94C and X93C series, Sony is also adding HDR compatibility to the X91C, X90C, X85C and S85C series via a network update[1]. Sony is working with streaming video providers such as Amazon Video to bring customers movies and TV shows in HDR (High Dynamic Range), a premium technology which generates deeper blacks, brighter peaks, and richer colour tones.
http://presscentre.sony.eu/pressrele...hd-tvs-1208534



I take these announcements to mean that Vizio is almost certain to announce a 2015 P-Series supporting HDR next month.

And so the HDR format battle rages on
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post #18 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 02:50 PM
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So these updates will give the TV's the ability to read the HDR data, but the impact on picture quality will vary in some cases by a decent degree. Also you need that Peak Illuminator "pro" for the Samsungs don't you? For HDR to work right? Don't some of the cheaper models have this missing as a feature?

I wonder how close a JS8500 and JU7000 will come in terms of impact.?

This whole announcement is basically saying to me, we want our new TV's to work with our new 4K bluray player out the box.
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post #19 of 41 Old 09-04-2015, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So these updates will give the TV's the ability to read the HDR data, but the impact on picture quality will vary in some cases by a decent degree. Also you need that Peak Illuminator "pro" for the Samsungs don't you? For HDR to work right? Don't some of the cheaper models have this missing as a feature?

I wonder how close a JS8500 and JU7000 will come in terms of impact.?

This whole announcement is basically saying to me, we want our new TV's to work with our new 4K bluray player out the box.
Yes u need peak illuminator pro or ultimate(only on Fald) for best results. The ju7100 has only peak illuminator basically it does not get as bright as the models with peak illuminator pro or ultimate. I have personally tested HDR on JU7100 it has been enabled since launch, HDR is good on it. From my observations ON JU7100 HDR capabilities local dimming and lack of peak illuminator ultimate lower it's HDR capabilities, with that said it delivers a pretty good HDR image. The colours In HDR alone increase the quality of the image over standard 4k video; improved performance is seen albeit @ a lesser degree than 8 and 9 series(with sek 3500u) and SUHD sets.
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post #20 of 41 Old 09-05-2015, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by James Chisholm View Post
Also you need that Peak Illuminator "pro" for the Samsungs don't you? For HDR to work right? Don't some of the cheaper models have this missing as a feature?
I haven't seen any description of what exactly the Peak Illuminator does, but I have a guess. I think it uses the TV's HDR capability to approximate HDR effects on old-style rec.709 video sources. If so, that feature is probably unrelated to how the TV handles HDR sources.

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post #21 of 41 Old 09-05-2015, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I haven't seen any description of what exactly the Peak Illuminator does, but I have a guess. I think it uses the TV's HDR capability to approximate HDR effects on old-style rec.709 video sources. If so, that feature is probably unrelated to how the TV handles HDR sources.
Peak illuminator pro is for HDR peak nits/highlights and creating Pseudo HDR on regular content. This feature basically increases the light output and regulates the local dimming .

Samsung description
Peak Illuminator Pro
See colors pop and enjoy greater detail in all your favorite movies, shows and games with increased LED illumination behind the brightest regions of the picture.
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN65JS9000FXZA

Peak Illuminator Ultimate
Scenes come to spectacular life with LED illumination behind the brightest regions of the picture.
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/UN65JS9500FXZA
notice the word spectacular indicating it get brighter than pro version which it does due to full array.

If you don't use smart led high which enables peak illumination pro/ultimate you don't get specular highlights from hdr or peak nits. I would say yes it is connected and necessary for proper HDR reproduction. Chad forgot to put it on high on one calibration when he did it doubled his peak nits .

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post #22 of 41 Old 09-05-2015, 02:34 PM
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Guys,

I was reading a review and it stated:

"Sony X85C does not support HDR (high dynamic range) and we do not know whether Sony plans to add support to some TVs through an update, like Samsung has done for some 2014 TVs, but since X85C only uses direct LED but not local dimming zones, it is irrelevant. It will never be able to reproduce HDR."

Is this reviewer correct? Are all these HDR updates that Sony and Samsung have added to their 2015 models this week pointless and just a gimmick without local dimming zones which most of them don't have?
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post #23 of 41 Old 09-05-2015, 02:54 PM
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The thing I don't like about the way HDR is being implemented is that it is non defeatable. If the show you want to stream is in HDR, you are forced to watch in HDR, even though it may look worse on some tv's. I'm hoping Netflix and Amazon will have something in their account settings that you can turn HDR off. Hopefully when 4K blu ray players come out, you will be able to toggle off HDR in the player settings. Otherwise, HDR could be a disaster.
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post #24 of 41 Old 09-05-2015, 02:56 PM
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Guys,

I was reading a review and it stated:

"Sony X85C does not support HDR (high dynamic range) and we do not know whether Sony plans to add support to some TVs through an update, like Samsung has done for some 2014 TVs, but since X85C only uses direct LED but not local dimming zones, it is irrelevant. It will never be able to reproduce HDR."

Is this reviewer correct? Are all these HDR updates that Sony and Samsung have added to their 2015 models this week pointless and just a gimmick without local dimming zones which most of them don't have?
Probably. If you don't have a backlight capable of high lumens output and supporting some form of local dimming, the best you are going to get is HDR compatibility (as in, you can read and interpret the HDR stream/data), but as many are finding, either the image is going to be too dark or the contrast (brightest highlights divided by blackest blacks) is going to be for below what it should be.

Remember the old saying, "if it sounds too good to be true..."
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" ... since X85C only uses direct LED but not local dimming zones, it is irrelevant. It will never be able to reproduce HDR."

Is this reviewer correct?
I don't think so. HDR needs additional color shades and enhanced contrast. Local dimming is a strategy to enhance contrast, but it's not the only way to do it. I'd be more concerned with whether the X95C has 10 bit color depth to display more color shades.
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I don't think so. HDR needs additional color shades and enhanced contrast. Local dimming is a strategy to enhance contrast, but it's not the only way to do it. I'd be more concerned with whether the X85C has 10 bit color depth to display more color shades.
It has WCG support. It leverages Sony's Triluminous technology
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I don't think so. HDR needs additional color shades and enhanced contrast. Local dimming is a strategy to enhance contrast, but it's not the only way to do it. I'd be more concerned with whether the X95C has 10 bit color depth to display more color shades.
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It has WCG support. It leverages Sony's Triluminous technology
By "additional color shades", I meant to refer to bit depth, not color gamut.

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post #28 of 41 Old 09-05-2015, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I don't think so. HDR needs additional color shades and enhanced contrast. Local dimming is a strategy to enhance contrast, but it's not the only way to do it. I'd be more concerned with whether the X95C has 10 bit color depth to display more color shades.
The issue is that all of the early user reports seem to indicate that when you go I to 'HDR mode' the peak output of the panel gets locked to peak output for highlights of the HDR stream and all broghtness levels are reduced down from there.

This may change in the future, but for now it means HDR content looks lousy (too dark/dim) on TVs that don't have bright backlights (500-600 Nits got dark-room viewing, 800-1000 Nits for bright-room viewing) and if you've got the entire backlight cranked up to max at those levels without local dimming, you'll be limited to the native contrast ratio of the LCD panel and blacks will be pretty poor (as well as adding a significant amount of dark grey into the entire image so that color saturation will be more limited than it should be).

Again, this is something that it should be possible to improve-upon going forward, but that seems to be the state of play today.

But I agree with you, any WCG panel should be able to display a more deeply-saturated image in HDR mode (as long as highlights are appropriately clipped and backlight brightness is appropriately adjusted down to the panels capability while leaving the rest of the image at an acceptable brightness).

It's just that that cability apparently doesn't exist today...
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post #29 of 41 Old 09-09-2015, 05:06 PM
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Guys,

I was reading a review and it stated:

"Sony X85C does not support HDR (high dynamic range) and we do not know whether Sony plans to add support to some TVs through an update, like Samsung has done for some 2014 TVs, but since X85C only uses direct LED but not local dimming zones, it is irrelevant. It will never be able to reproduce HDR."

Is this reviewer correct? Are all these HDR updates that Sony and Samsung have added to their 2015 models this week pointless and just a gimmick without local dimming zones which most of them don't have?
No, the reviewer is not correct. The essential requirement is st-2084, the PQ EOTF, and st2086 metadata. If the display is compliant with those, the display will switch into HDR mode when it senses HDR content. FALD increases the dynamic range even more, but even without it, highlights will be expressed with more range and saturation.

If the display is not HDR compliant, the HDR content will appear very tone flat and lacking contrast. This will be obvious to you and not right. Download some HDR trailers of Life of Pi or Exodus and play them. If they "pop," you're good.
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post #30 of 41 Old 09-09-2015, 05:15 PM
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Guys, it's not about just FALD and backlighting nor even WCG. The display has to switch out of 709 gamma mode into PQ transfer function. That's what you get from an update for HDR.
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