Official Samsung KS8000/KS8500 Owners Thread - Page 915 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27421 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatinKzo View Post
Anyone else having VUDU app issues since 1180? I actually have 1180.5 and can't get more than a few minutes into VUDU movie now without it going to heck. VUDU on other devices is fine.
I just started using Vudu and beside a lock-up/lag maybe once in two hours of watching, I have had no problems. I am on 1180.
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post #27422 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 06:26 AM
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UK user here.
For me 1180.5 has caused an issue that wasn't there before I have to manually work around it each time unless someone else has a bright idea?

I have a Yamaha Amp with a UK Virgin Media Tivo box and a Raspberry Pi 2 running Kodi running via it over HDMI 4 and used to work perfectly.
Since the update when switching to the Raspberry Pi the screen goes blank as normal whilst I guess it detects what it is but comes back as the original resource of HDMI4 named 'Receiver'.
The problem with this is the Kodi screen doesn't properly scale and goes past the boundaries of the screen, also blacks are terrible and a mushy grey.
I then manually go to the source and switch it from HDMI4 to PC, it goes blank a second then comes back fitting the screen, blacks look properly black and the screen looks much more 'punchy', in this mode I can't select HDR+ mode etc.

It then works perfectly well until the next day(use) when it goes back to HDMI4 and looks awful.

I never had an issue with this until the 1180.5 update
I've had everything off, unplugged etc. and seem to be an issue with the TV recognizing the source.

Thoughts?
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post #27423 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jm10 View Post
Yeap, Citi Extended Warranty run on its own and is not tied/restricted to Costco.

Look for the PDF with details and examples...
https://www.cardbenefits.citi.com/Pr...ended-Warranty
But does it go into effect after the Squaretrade warranty or merely available at the same time after the initial manufacturer warranty expires?

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post #27424 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by limitz View Post
Since my particular TV clips white at contrast level above 85 (86-100) in SDR mode will it most likely clip white in HDR mode as well? I don't have a way to test white clipping while in HDR mode. I assume since the TV originally set the contrast level to max 100 when it detects HDR content that white clipping may not occur.

What do you guys think and what have your experiences been like comparing SDR vs HDR contrast levels (not Dynamic Contrast)?

White test pattern shows pink when above contrast 85, RGB limited 16-235.
I find the same on SDR.

On HDR, using the HDR test patterns on Sony 4K discs (key 7669 at the movie menu to get the test pattern screens) There are some white screens with 10 vertical scales.

One screen has 100,200,300...1000 nit scales. I can see all those with any contrast.

The next screen has 1100,1200,1300...2000. 1900 and 2000 blend together with 100 contrast with and without Dynamic Contrast on. With Contrast of 99 and Dynamic Contrast off, I can start to see a difference between 1900 and 2000. With Dynamic Contrast on, I have to turn Contrast down to 94, to see a difference between 1900 and 2000. On the next screen, the nit scales go 2000,2500,3000,4000...6000 (a bump of 500 nits after the first 2000 and from 2500 to 3000 but then 1000 jumps the rest of the way.) Even at contrast of 100 I can see a difference in all scales up to 4000 (5000 and up blend together.) With lower contrast, I can see a difference up to 5000 (6000 and up blend together.) On these high nit screens, lowering contrast starts to make the lower scales turn grey-pinkish - I assume that is just the tone mapping dealing with these extreme nit scales.

Most professional reviews stick with 100 contrast in HDR. Based on those findings, it seems I should run 99 contrast to avoid clipping at very high nits and 94 if using Dynamic Contrast. Agree? Any downsides to not using 100 contrast?

Last edited by checker9; 06-29-2017 at 07:01 AM.
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post #27425 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 07:16 AM
 
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This is the only info I found on the Display Summit:

Quote:
At the summit, Samsung shared the benefits of HDR10+, which is now available on QLED TVs. The technology is able to produce vibrant colors on a scene-by-scene basis and prevent certain pictures from looking darker than originally intended. Paired with the emissive WCG technique used to enhance color accuracy and reproduction, HDR10+ offers the best viewing experience with richer colors and deeper contrast on QLED TVs.

“Given the impact that HDR has had on enhancing ultra-high definition (UHD) picture quality and the viewing experience, HDR10+ and emissive WCG technique applied to QLED TVs will provide consumers with the best viewing experience,” said Kim Moon-soo, executive vice president of the Visual Display business at Samsung Electronics. “With our HDR10+ offering, we are bringing the next generation of HDR technology to the market and solidifying our status as the leading brand in the global ultra-premium TV market.”
https://news.samsung.com/global/sams...e-us-tv-market
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post #27426 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 07:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I find the same on SDR.

On HDR, using the HDR test patterns on Sony 4K discs (key 7669 at the movie menu to get the test pattern screens) There are some white screens with 10 vertical scales.

One screen has 100,200,300...1000 nit scales. I can see all those with any contrast.

The next screen has 1100,1200,1300...2000. 1900 and 2000 blend together with 100 contrast with and without Dynamic Contrast on. With Contrast of 99 and Dynamic Contrast off, I can start to see a difference between 1900 and 2000. With Dynamic Contrast on, I have to turn Contrast down to 94, to see a difference between 1900 and 2000. On the next screen, the nit scales go 2000,2500,3000,4000...6000 (a bump of 500 nits after the first 2000 and from 2500 to 3000 but then 1000 jumps the rest of the way.) Even at contrast of 100 I can see a difference in all scales up to 4000 (5000 and up blend together.) With lower contrast, I can see a difference up to 5000 (6000 and up blend together.) On these high nit screens, lowering contrast starts to make the lower scales turn grey-pinkish - I assume that is just the tone mapping dealing with these extreme nit scales.

Most professional reviews stick with 100 contrast in HDR. Based on those findings, it seems I should run 99 contrast to avoid clipping at very high nits and 94 if using Dynamic Contrast. Agree? Any downsides to not using 100 contrast?
Going back to my previous post, contrast at 100 and Dynamic Contrast off will resolve detail up to 6000 nits.

There's no reason to have Dynamic Contrast on. The colors are much richer with it off, and you get a lot more overall detail.
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post #27427 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by LonestarROB View Post
Update 1180.5 has been pushed to my set. I'm in the US (Texas) . Don't really see any difference in PQ ( was on 1168 )
I need to re-track that statement . To my eyes, PQ is worse on 1180 than it was on 1168, for me. . Any settings that need to be tweaked after the update?
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post #27428 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 09:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LonestarROB View Post
I need to re-track that statement . To my eyes, PQ is worse on 1180 than it was on 1168, for me. . Any settings that need to be tweaked after the update?
Just do a factory reset.
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post #27429 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I find the same on SDR.

On HDR, using the HDR test patterns on Sony 4K discs (key 7669 at the movie menu to get the test pattern screens) There are some white screens with 10 vertical scales.

One screen has 100,200,300...1000 nit scales. I can see all those with any contrast.

The next screen has 1100,1200,1300...2000. 1900 and 2000 blend together with 100 contrast with and without Dynamic Contrast on. With Contrast of 99 and Dynamic Contrast off, I can start to see a difference between 1900 and 2000. With Dynamic Contrast on, I have to turn Contrast down to 94, to see a difference between 1900 and 2000. On the next screen, the nit scales go 2000,2500,3000,4000...6000 (a bump of 500 nits after the first 2000 and from 2500 to 3000 but then 1000 jumps the rest of the way.) Even at contrast of 100 I can see a difference in all scales up to 4000 (5000 and up blend together.) With lower contrast, I can see a difference up to 5000 (6000 and up blend together.) On these high nit screens, lowering contrast starts to make the lower scales turn grey-pinkish - I assume that is just the tone mapping dealing with these extreme nit scales.

Most professional reviews stick with 100 contrast in HDR. Based on those findings, it seems I should run 99 contrast to avoid clipping at very high nits and 94 if using Dynamic Contrast. Agree? Any downsides to not using 100 contrast?
This is exactly why some people are pushing/wishing for some tunability of tone mapping. Personally, I think I'm okay with those super high-end nit levels getting crushed in order to retain proper EOTF tracking further up the scale, and this seems to be a conscious decision by Samsung, but someone else may not be.

There is not really a downside to lowering contrast other than the fact that it is lowering your white level, but if you can still hit your target white level, then that's fine. A bump in backlight can also help offset the drop, with its own drawback of raising the blacks a bit.

Another item related to this contrast calibration and clipping that is often overlooked is color clipping. My pink issue goes away at Contrast 95, but I have to go even further down to correct color clipping that occurs, or drop the Color setting. Just another thing to consider as you're going through this process.
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post #27430 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limitz View Post
What is pink? White. (examples attached below)
Source devices? Xbox One S, PS4 Pro and PC all connected to their own HDMI Input at the TV
Black levels match? For PC, yes, set to RGB Full 8-bit in Nvidia Control Panel, Normal in TV and on 'PC' HDMI mode. I can see the pinkish tint if black levels aren't correctly matching (ex. Full and Low) otherwise it looks perfect at contrast 100.
And, no, I'm not using the built-in TV player.

Xbox One S black level is set to 'Standard (recommended)' aka limited where the TV is set to 'Low' and greyed out. But still see pink on test patterns above contrast 85. I'm not sure if it is sending out chroma 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0

PS4 Pro black level is set to RGB limited and TV is set to 'Low' and greyed out. Same pink results.

Attached pictures from left to right:
First three are from the built-in calibration app on the Xbox One showing what it looks like at contrast 85, 95 and 100. The next five are from Disney WoW calibration Bluray played on Xbox One S, showing what it looks like at contrast 85, 95 and 100 . And the next three are test patterns taken from my PC showing no pink tint at contrast level 100, RGB Full and Normal. The final picture was taken at an extreme angle capturing how the entire screen has the pink tint on a test pattern at contrast level 85 (not sure if this is common) but viewing head-on it doesn't look nearly as bad.

Thanks
Have you changed your grayscale calibration settings at all? Can you please post your full settings?

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post #27431 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
This is exactly why some people are pushing/wishing for some tunability of tone mapping. Personally, I think I'm okay with those super high-end nit levels getting crushed in order to retain proper EOTF tracking further up the scale, and this seems to be a conscious decision by Samsung, but someone else may not be.
Samsung TVs have some of the best tone mapping around.

Also, what clipping? In Movie mode, using the HDR default settings, with sharpness at 0 and Dynamic Contrast off, the TV can resolve up to 6000 nits. That's far more than you'll need, given that HDR content is currently mastered to either 1000 or 4000 nits.
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post #27432 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 12:08 PM
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Roku Premiere+ - Smart remote?

Has anyone had success in pairing the Samsung TV remote to a Roku Premiere+ ? The wizard doesn't recognize it, but when I label the HDMI input as "Roku" (must be capital R) the Roku logo is used for that input. I'd like to manage everything with the simple, single Samsung TV remote if possible!!

Apologies if answered before, I searched this thread and found no info...
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post #27433 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by T_dot View Post
Samsung TVs have some of the best tone mapping around.

Also, what clipping? In Movie mode, using the HDR default settings, with sharpness at 0 and Dynamic Contrast off, the TV can resolve up to 6000 nits. That's far more than you'll need, given that HDR content is currently mastered to either 1000 or 4000 nits.
I was only referring to those observations posted by checker9. I agree that Samsung tone mapping is excellent and I don't actually want to change it.

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post #27434 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the.sm.davidson View Post
Roku Premiere+ - Smart remote?

Has anyone had success in pairing the Samsung TV remote to a Roku Premiere+ ? The wizard doesn't recognize it, but when I label the HDMI input as "Roku" (must be capital R) the Roku logo is used for that input. I'd like to manage everything with the simple, single Samsung TV remote if possible!!

Apologies if answered before, I searched this thread and found no info...
I had no trouble with either the Premiere+ or Ultra pairing (had to go to Ultra to get 5.1 to activate through the One Connect box). Once your TV recognizes the Roku it may take a day or so to teach itself. I can control the Roku with either the Samsung remote or the Roku Remote.
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post #27435 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 12:51 PM
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Educational display info

https://www.cinema5d.com/exploring-l...ution-hdr-hfr/

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post #27436 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 01:55 PM
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Someone over on the Samsung forums stated that the internet update patch is not as "good" as the full 1gb image update via USB implying their is a difference?

Is this well known? This is the first time I'm hearing benefits of using the USB firmware over the Internet update.

https://us.community.samsung.com/t5/...hread-id/15473
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post #27437 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 02:07 PM
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Someone over on the stated that the internet update patch is not as "good" as the full 1gb image update via USB implying their is a difference?

Is this well known? This is the first time I'm hearing benefits of using the USB firmware over the Internet update.
I updated OTA. I was hoping for the "wow" everyone was getting, but PQ remained the same from 1169.
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post #27438 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 02:14 PM
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I updated OTA. I was hoping for the "wow" everyone was getting, but PQ remained the same from 1169.
It wasn't "everyone". Maybe a handful of people here posted they had a noticable improvement. That doesn't qualify as "everyone".

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post #27439 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 02:48 PM
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It wasn't "everyone". Maybe a handful of people here posted they had a noticable improvement. That doesn't qualify as "everyone".
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post #27440 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 02:51 PM
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Have you changed your grayscale calibration settings at all? Can you please post your full settings?
If you are asking about the White Balance: 2-point and 10-point then the answer is, no, and they are at the default levels.

You have given me an idea to apply Rtings.com White Balance settings and observe if there is any change to the issue. Even though each set is different from set to set regardless; I'm going to test.

-Movie mode-
Backlight: 5
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 85 (no pink)
Sharpness: 50 (edit: 0)
Color: 50/50
Tint: 50/50
Smart LED: High
HDMI UHD Color: On
HDMI Black Level: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Off (SDR), Medium (HDR)
Color Tone: Warm2
White Balance: Default
Gamma: -1
Color Space: Auto

Last edited by limitz; 06-29-2017 at 03:27 PM.
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post #27441 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BrokenBones View Post
Can you forgive me?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by limitz View Post

-Movie mode-

Sharpness: 50
I'm curious as to why/how you decided on 50 for sharpness?
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post #27442 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 03:28 PM
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No.



I'm curious as to why/how you decided on 50 for sharpness?
Typo. 50 for PC and 0 for every other source.
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post #27443 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by limitz View Post
Typo. 50 for PC and 0 for every other source.
Ahh. Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
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post #27444 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post
Someone over on the Samsung forums stated that the internet update patch is not as "good" as the full 1gb image update via USB implying their is a difference?

Is this well known? This is the first time I'm hearing benefits of using the USB firmware over the Internet update.

https://us.community.samsung.com/t5/...hread-id/15473
Odd that it was the initial post in the thread and just seemed to go unchallenged for so long.

I did the usb port update (from the Korean site) and unplugged the power for 1 minute after it finished.

It seems to me the PQ is improved over 1169 which I did not get using the usb port.

Agree it would be nice to know if there are any differences in the software.

Last edited by Chuck Ebby; 06-29-2017 at 04:02 PM.
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post #27445 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 03:57 PM
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Does anyone know if there are separate sets of downloads for the ks8xxx versus the 2017 q7 models?

Last edited by Chuck Ebby; 06-29-2017 at 04:01 PM.
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post #27446 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck Ebby View Post
Odd that it was the initial post in the thread and just seemed to go unchallenged for so long.



I did the usb port update (from the Korean site) and unplugged the power for 1 minute after it finished.



It seems to me the PQ is improved over 1169 which I did not get using the usb port.



Agree it would be nice to know if there are any differences in the software.


Knowing a little about software development, and software versioning, I really cannot imagine that firmware with the same version number associated to it would have any differences in behaviour or performance depending it's the method of installation. They would have different version numbers if they were actually different code.


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post #27447 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limitz View Post
If you are asking about the White Balance: 2-point and 10-point then the answer is, no, and they are at the default levels.

You have given me an idea to apply Rtings.com White Balance settings and observe if there is any change to the issue. Even though each set is different from set to set regardless; I'm going to test.

-Movie mode-
Backlight: 5
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 85 (no pink)
Sharpness: 50 (edit: 0)
Color: 50/50
Tint: 50/50
Smart LED: High
HDMI UHD Color: On
HDMI Black Level: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Off (SDR), Medium (HDR)
Color Tone: Warm2
White Balance: Default
Gamma: -1
Color Space: Auto
I don't see anything that would explain why your white is appearing pink.

On a separate note, Smart LED High should not be used for SDR sources. Switching to Smart LED Low (and bumping up your Backlight if the reason you preferred High is that it made your highlights brighter) will give you better results with less blooming. Smart LED High doesn't dim more than Smart LED Low; it only boosts highlights at the expense of blooming. It is necessary in order for the TV to get to the super high nit levels with HDR content, but for SDR content, there's more than enough headroom in Smart LED Low mode, so you should instead increase the backlight if you want more brightness.
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post #27448 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Frazzler View Post
Knowing a little about software development, and software versioning, I really cannot imagine that firmware with the same version number associated to it would have any differences in behaviour or performance depending it's the method of installation. They would have different version numbers if they were actually different code.
Agreed. They guy's statement doesn't make any sense.

Quote:
i recommend you all update via USB .... by upgrading via full image file and not using the patched version by way of direct internet auto update flashing patch version!
"direct internet auto update flashing patch version". As if getting it via the TV's menus gives you a "patch". Firmware upgrades don't work like that. You flash the whole image. It'll be the exact same file. If not, it's for him to provide the evidence since he's making this (bizarre) claim that they are different. But he won't, so we can all move on. Nothing to see here

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post #27449 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck Ebby View Post
Odd that it was the initial post in the thread and just seemed to go unchallenged for so long.
Someone's just logged in over there and called him on it.

They're a bit thick over there aren't they? Samsung told them that "1180" is the same as "1180.5" and that's ok? They look like different numbers to me, but no-one there knows how to view basic things like the whole firmware version number, and they're panicking thinking they've got "1180" and trying to upgrade to "1180.5". What a mess of confusion.

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HDMI-4K modes | 4K chroma test | Samsung 2016 TVs | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays
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post #27450 of 29839 Old 06-29-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limitz View Post
If you are asking about the White Balance: 2-point and 10-point then the answer is, no, and they are at the default levels.

You have given me an idea to apply Rtings.com White Balance settings and observe if there is any change to the issue. Even though each set is different from set to set regardless; I'm going to test.

-Movie mode-
Backlight: 5
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 85 (no pink)
Sharpness: 50 (edit: 0)
Color: 50/50
Tint: 50/50
Smart LED: High
HDMI UHD Color: On
HDMI Black Level: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Off (SDR), Medium (HDR)
Color Tone: Warm2
White Balance: Default
Gamma: -1
Color Space: Auto
2 Point adjustment can get rid of your "pink"..

I would bring your Gamma back to 0 and add the black you want by lowering your Brightness. At 5 Backlight and 85 Contrast you really shouldn't need a reduction in Gamma.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Ebby View Post
Does anyone know if there are separate sets of downloads for the ks8xxx versus the 2017 q7 models?
Completely different and separate builds.
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Last edited by joe75xp; 06-29-2017 at 07:53 PM.
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