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The 2016 P-Series HDR10 Promise

6K views 102 replies 44 participants last post by  markrubin 
#1 · (Edited)
Well, based on a suggestion in the official P series owners' forum, I am starting a new forum for those who are absolutely disgusted and fed-up with the fact that Vizio has not delivered on its 90-120 day promise on the HDR10 update.

In order to avoid the apologists, etc. of the die-hard Vizio fans in the owners' forum, please post your comments and concerns about the lack of HDR10 (as it was promised) in this forum.

EDIT: I just got a call from a Vizio Executive Resolution manager. I had previously sent emails about the whole HDR10 "promise" and asked for a refund. After arguing back and forth with various CS people, my issue was escalated. I had a ten minute conversation with the guy, and here are the take away bullet points (quotes are the executive's exact language):

1. HDR10 was "put on the back burner" due to the engineering team having to work out various bugs with casting (especially casting from iPhones);
2. The 90-120 days was the original launch period but due to the number of issues "normal consumers" were having with casting, it had to be delayed to focus on working out other bugs;
3. The engineering team simply didn't have the resources to adequately work on casting bugs and proper implementation of HDR10 so they had to choose what their top priority would be--that top priority was casting;
4. There is currently no release date for the HDR10 update.

In sum, I elected to have my account marked for a refund if the update is not out by the end of August. In my mind, that is all the time I am willing to wait for the feature before going through with the refund.
 
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#6 ·
I think they got overwhelmed with the difficulty of the HDR10 update and are now (at least wishing they could) sweeping it under the rug.

It's not like Matt just happened to forget about the people on this forum, or just so happened to not notice twitter posts/etc asking about the HDR10 upgrade that he has been ignoring.

Cue the short sighted apologists who will suggest he's too "busy" for twitter and such, even though he posts and retweets on it every few days.
 
#17 ·
I think they got overwhelmed with the difficulty of the HDR10 update and are now (at least wishing they could) sweeping it under the rug.



It's not like Matt just happened to forget about the people on this forum, or just so happened to not notice twitter posts/etc asking about the HDR10 upgrade that he has been ignoring.



Cue the short sighted apologists who will suggest he's too "busy" for twitter and such, even though he posts and retweets on it every few days.


Yah he's been pretty quiet. Especially will the flood of posts and responses March though June to alleviate any buyer concerns. No one can get any response from him other than those posts praising the product.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#9 ·
To be completely fair this is becoming semantics and conjecture.

The facts are the following:

Fact 1.) The date of the P Series unveiling Vizio communicated to press that those that bought the P would get HDR10 "around" 90 days.

Fact 2.) The CTO of Vizio, on the forums and by extension twitter, confirmed HDR10 is coming and quickly changed the Press-given info to lower our expectations from 90 to 90-120.


While you may not qualify those two facts within the category of "promise" it's fair to say that many customers would. And because Vizio appeals to a broad customer base and many (arguably most) customers would call that a "promise" Vizio kind of should treat it like one. If Vizio didn't want HDR10 in 90-120 days to be a factor in customers buying their product they shouldn't have said anything. They told all press outlets to say that to generate sales and so the P Series looked like it was a jack of all trades.


Personally, I've been in the tech and TV game a long time and I'm not the least bit surprised about the delay. I'm not upset either since what can you do about it? Nothing really. It'll get here when it gets here. That's the healthiest approach I recommend to everyone. But let's get real here: do not defend Vizio. They screwed up. They made a statement to press and consumers and they failed to deliver on that statement. People have every right in the world to feel a bit cheated because the made a purchase based on information Vizio released into the public sphere that they only did so to generate more sales.

That's it from me on the issue.


-Vader
 
#15 ·
I've been burned repeatedly on empty promises for upgrades on tech and should have known better but thats still no excuse for Vizio. I felt 90 days (or 90-120) was such a quick timeline that Vizio must be confident that the upgrade was imminent and heck, this came from an executive level employee after all. As I stated in the other thread this was a $3800 purchase which is a LOT of money for me. I have specifically been waiting on HDR and would not have bought this TV if Matt or whomever from Vizio hadn't been so specific about when it was coming. (Again he didn't say anything about an estimate). At the very least they owe everyone an explanation of why they haven't delivered. I'm willing to wait a little while longer but if it's not ready by the end of August I want a refund.

 
#21 ·
I'm not thrilled that we haven't gotten it yet, but I tend to take software timelines with a grain of salt. I believe it is still coming before the end of the summer. And to be honest, if the delay is from the funneling of engineering resources to fix the core functionality of the set first instead of HDR10, I'm okay with that for now.
 
#22 ·
Here is a response quoted from rtings...."The update for HDR10 is expected for August, and we will be able to provide more information on HDR10 gaming once it is released. At the moment the only way to play Dolby Vision content is via streaming services on the inbuilt apps, and so it is not possible to take definitive measurements of the performance. When streaming Dolby Vision content, it is possible to enable 'Game Low Latency' but at the moment we aren't able to test if this is an improvement over SDR 'Game Low Latency'. We have heard of this ghosting issue as well, however have just tested on the 65" P series and it appears that the current firmware update has fixed it."
Jul 04, 2016
Maybe they know something that we don't. I would be ecstatic if the update included dynamic hr10.....
 
#27 ·
I wonder what's taking so long to get the update out. HDR10 is an open standard, the details of which have been known for quite a while, it doesn't seem like it should be that difficult to release.
 
#28 ·
What's not known is how consistent the HDR10 media and players are when they implement the HDR10 specifications. Studios are known to include disruptive code on Blu-ray disks. The only HDR10 player in the wild is also known to be buggy. Those kind of problems always crop up during a technology "advance." :rolleyes:
 
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#31 ·
This is the exact reason why you should only buy anything based on what the device currently does and not what they say it will do in the future. Every major company does this type of stuff.
 
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#37 ·
Just my two cents. If all the other manufacturers were able to implement HDR10 in their TVs months ago (since 2015), why is it taking Vizio this long to "get it right"? 4 months to implement HDR10? Come on son...

65JS8500, P50-C1, K8500, SB3851 Soundbar, Nvidia Shield, PS4
Well it is pretty simple. The only thing that was done in 2015 was an hdmi 2.0a firmware upgrade which would allow these tvs to accept the metadata. There was no actual players even available at that time. Earlier this year the Samsung player was the only available one on the market. Now with the pending update for the P series Matt did update us saying there were issues with the HDR10 firmware because different players were actually not all sending the same info to the tv. So now they have to get it to work on multiple players since there are 2 already out and a 3rd coming in less than 15 days. The other tvs also are sets that have brightness of 1000nits or higher.(Even tho they can only do this for a limited amount of time) HDR10 spec is based of being able to hit 1000nits. So other sets can get away with brightness differences from different players since they basically just pump out twice the brightness of the P series. Vizio chose not to go with 1000nits due to the fact that it caused light bleed, which it does in most of those other sets as well. So with their brightness at 500-600 I would assume it would take more work to get the metadata to display correctly on the tv, especially when different players seem to be sending different luminance values to the tv.
 
#38 ·
What's concerning me isn't that we won't get it at all but that the delay signals issues with the quality of its implementation. This may be a false equivalency but my own P Series set has run the gamut of glitches and bugs in the month I've had it, and due to the shaky implementation of many aspects of this TV I'm now nervous HDR10 itself won't be as "good" as we'd want it. I know they're taking their time to perfect it as well as it can be, of course.


-Vader
 
#39 ·
I just got a call from a Vizio Executive Resolution manager. I had previously sent emails about the whole HDR10 "promise" and asked for a refund. After arguing back and forth with various CS people, my issue was escalated. I had a ten minute conversation with the guy, and here are the take away bullet points (quotes are the executive's exact language):

1. HDR10 was "put on the back burner" due to the engineering team having to work out various bugs with casting (especially casting from iPhones);
2. The 90-120 days was the original launch period but due to the number of issues "normal consumers" were having with casting, it had to be delayed to focus on working out other bugs;
3. The engineering team simply didn't have the resources to adequately work on casting bugs and proper implementation of HDR10 so they had to choose what their top priority would be--that top priority was casting;
4. There is currently no release date for the HDR10 update.

In sum, I elected to have my account marked for a refund if the update is not out by the end of August. In my mind, that is all the time I am willing to wait for the feature before going through with the refund.
 
#61 ·
Here's what Matt from Vizio had to say:



"Matt McRae

Here we are at day 120 :)

Wanted to give the group an update. We have candidate final code being built right now and will be tested extensively over the weekend by our QA team. Assuming QA does not experience unforeseen regressions we would prepare the the Monday/Tuesday for a release to field. I am going out on a limb here to give you this status because an issue might be found that could push things out a week... but I felt I owed the group here an update since I know many of you are really looking forward to this promised feature.

The development took the entire period of my 90-120 day commitment because we were seeing variations by player, title, and various inconsistencies in the metadata streams (standard definitely has some wiggle room). Without naming other companies, I will ask that everyone here with an HDR10 player should spend the next couple of days making sure it has the latest firmware as the shipping firmware had various issues that produced incorrect or inconsistent HDR10 playback and metadata. We wasted nearly 3 weeks chasing bugs that turned out to be the player and a firmware update on that player fixed them.

Also note... we made a decision to combine the P and M Series builds so when ready the release will go out to both Series for release. This took a little extra time but benefits everyone and gave us more time to fine tune PQ.

The teams have been working flat out on this code... I appreciate the patience as we do our final checks on this final candidate and stay tuned for more information next week.

Have a great weekend.

BTW: I apologize that I am way behind on PMs and the forums due to some other matters here at VIZIO. Will attempt to get caught up after Tuesday next week when that is complete."



65JS8500, P50-C1, K8500, SB3851 Soundbar, Nvidia Shield, PS4
 
#63 ·
Now, really. Do you think had I not stirred up a stink on this thread (and the other thread) that we would ever have gotten that update from McRae?

If you think I complained on here, you should have seen what I did directly with Vizio. The guy I talked with (after my issues was escalated) said he was going to have his social media department put out an update on here. This thread is no fail at all. It is an epic success.
 
#64 ·
This has been an very informative thread... I'm currently shopping for a new display. I was planning on getting a B6 LG but decided perhaps a larger P series for less money might be a great option as well. Are most of you happy with the picture quality. If you had it to do all over again, would you still buy a P series?
 
#67 ·
I'm not surprised there's issues with hdr10.

Hdr10 requires certain Hardware specs, and if those specs aren't met by the monitor, there will be major clipping unless the tv has a way to not clip. For example, its been found that the LG oleds clip hdr10,but not on DolbyVision since dolby adjusts to the display. Vizio is probably trying to figure out how to get the display to display hdr10 without severely clipping highlights and details since it does not meet the 1000 nits that hdr10 blu rays are mastered at.
 
#69 ·
That sucks for those P owners who are waiting and had their hopes dashed but if it were me, I'd personally prefer something was working correctly before it is shared with consumers rather than released half-assed just to get it out there.

I'm a gamer (pc specifically) and I am sure many other gamers know the frustration of companies releasing games that are buggy as all get out just because the company refused to push back the release date and you then have months of patches just to get the game halfway playable.
 
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