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What I think I know about 4K TV's

777 views 21 replies 9 participants last post by  MajorJohnson 
#1 ·
My 2002 35" 1080i RCA CRT is on it's last electrons. That's how far behind I am in the technology I am.:confused: I'm looking for a 55" 4K TV.

I've researched and so far this is what I think I've learned. I'd appreciate any advice from the experts here on if I've got my facts straight or any enlightenment for my purchasing decision.

1. Upscaling--All current 4K TV's perform upscaling so that a picture based on a non-4K signal is better that without upscaling, but not as good as a picture based on a true 4K source. Based on What I have seen, Sony seems to do a particularly good job of this with their X-1 and X-1 Extreme processers. This issue is particularly important to me since almost 100% of my viewing is from my cable box.

2. HDR--TV's with HDR will try to increase the dynamic range from any signal, and will do a better job of displaying increased range even without HDR information encoded in the signal, but as with upscaling, the result is not as good as with an true HDR encoded signal. My particular concern here is being able to see the detail in dark, shadowy areas of the picture.

3. Aspect ratio--My pet peeve is stretching or compression that leaves round objects oblong, or trimming that removes actual picture. I am completely willing to have black bars on the sides of the picture when viewing non-HD content, such as 4:3 content. I understand that all 4K TV's have a setting that will display any content in its correct aspect ratio adding black bars as necessary.

4. Smart TV applications--Most Smart TV's will allow me to install new applications as they are developed. I won't be limited to the applications that were installed by the factory. Is this true of all smart TV's?

5. HDCP--I need a HDCP 2.2 complaint TV or else I risk that some future generation of cable boxes or content players that require 2.2 will no longer send a signal to my TV.

6. Data Rate--I need HDMI connectors on the TV (as well as cables) that support data transmission at 18 Gb/sec.

7. Cable Box--I need to make sure that my cable box has 1080P output, and that is the best available at the moment.

8. As a brand, while Visio may have build quality equal to other brands, but their repair policy is terrible and most defects will not be repaired.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Here are my suggestions.


Simply the Best

LG 55B6 OLED

Black levels to die for.


Mid Range


Sony 55X810C

Edge Lit LED backlit with Frame Dimming = Good Black Levels
Vertical Array LCD Panels = Good Black Levels
Excellent Video Processing
Android TV UI
120hz Panel
Triluminous LED backlighing for better colors. Basically RGB instead of just full spectrum White LEDs.


Vizio M55

Full Array LED with Local Dimming = Top Notch Black Levels (OLED better though)
Vertical Array LCD Panel = Good Black Levels and reduced blooming effects from Local Dimming
Video processing is a notch below Sony's but still good. Id tend to favor the superior black levels here.

Dolby Vision HDR processing, but the hardware specs wont deliver on the promises. However you can playback, UHD/HDR content. Id just save on the bandwidth personally.

Cons

No Broadcast ATSC/QAM Tuners, but if your using a cable box, doesnt really matter.
No traditional remote...these use an included Android tablet. You may or may not like this. But there is a solution!

2015 Vizio M55

Which basically has identical picture quality and UI...but lacks the tablet and DolbyVision. It's still 4K Full Array Local Dimming with a Vertical Array LCD panel. But it contains ATSC/QAM tuners and uses a traditional remote. You might look for one of these.


Value

TCL 55US5800 Roku TV
TCL 55UP130 Roku TV

These are 55" 4K sets. The UP130 has a bit different styling, supposedly more "premium" but Ill let you decide if that is worth $200. Otherwise they are the same.

TCL is the 4th largest manufacturer of LCD TVs in the world. Have been selling in US under own brand for 3 or 4 years now. Solid company.

Vertical Array LCD = Decent Black Levels
Full Array LED backlight (but No Dimming) = Decent Black Levels
Good Video Processing
No UHD, HDR, DolbyVision playback. Will accept an upscaled 4K signal though. Will stream 4K material just with Standard Dynamic Range.

The Roku UI is great on these. Maybe not as good as the Sony Android, but pretty sweet. The equal of Vizios or better.



Good luck!
 
#3 · (Edited)
I wouldnt bother with the KU6300/KU6000 series Samsungs...these Sonys & Vizios are better sets. LG sets use S-IPS panels which have poor black levels...avoid. The lower end Sony 600 series is 1080p.

Samsung screwed the pooch by pushing Curved Screen nonsense.

The only Samsung set worth looking at is the Flat Screened 55KS8000. It's got a superior Anti-Reflective filter to these other sets. However the Local Dimming scheme is inferior to both Vizio M series Full Array Local Dimming and even the more simple Frame Dimming of the Sonys listed above...and it's significantly more expensive.
 
#19 · (Edited)
lol every samsung is also available flat. but as for curved i have a 65ks 8500 and love it. wouldn't buy a non curve tv anymore. every1 who sees it thinks it adds to the ambience of what your watching. i would take the 8000 series over all of those that you listed including the oled. its too high priced, still has burn in and is not there yet. also for the curved if you check rrtings they state that contrast is better on a curved tv, also works better with light reflecting.
But it goes to show you there a million different answers and you need to investigate them to make a decision.

as for vizio all you have to do is go to the forums here and see how many people are on multiple tis because of problems. also they don't do had right but supposedly working on it. just to many bad tis in the p series.
 
#4 ·
Thank you for your time and thoughtful input, EscapeVelocity. I was zeroing in on the Sony line due to what I THINK is better upscaling, but you have given me more to think about in weighing that against the effect of possibly better black levels and dimming in my overall viewing experience. While I do want a smart TV, I will probably watch so little of that, having a better interface is not a big consideration, and I think OLED is probably off the table just due to my budget.

You seem quite knowledgeable regarding all these technologies. Would you care to comment on my numbered points and tell me if the things I THINK I understand are correct of off-base?
 
#6 ·
1.) Upscaling will not improve the picture quality, except in one manner...percieved screen door door effect or actual percieved pixels...of lower resolution screens. So this is largely a myth. Regarding SDE or screen door effect, imo 55" is about where the crossover point from 1080p is, as regards preferring a higher resolution to avoid...but only at close viewing distances...mostly this is a non issue at normal seating distances. All that being said, better scaling and video processing is desirable...but mostly this has all been worked out by chip makers...but Sony is recognized as being superior along with Samsung close 2nd.

2.) Mostly you are correct. However I prefer standards, where the intent of the director/creators can be most closely followed as they intended for the film/etc to look. People that like over-saturated color will probably like this feature. Furthermore, especially with lower end sets...they fall far from meeting even HDR standards for peak luminosity, contrast ratio, and expanded color gamut. Really 4K HDR/UHD is in a stage of growing pains. Dont put too much importance on this, especially at a lower pricepoint where you are. All that being said, Dolby Vision is the best iteration of this...so look for that if you are interested. ( I would recommend the Vizio P Series here, but it's 55" version is an S-IPS panel and the blooming artifacts are thusly exaggerated so Id stick with the Vizio M Series at that size, the P series gets brighter and has a wider color gamut than the M Series).

3.) Yes. Furthermore LCDs have little issues with burn in associated with black bars of letterboxing 4:3 content and so on and so forth. All this has been sorted out by even the lowliest 4th rate manufacturer by now.

4.) Most Smart TVs have an "app store" which let you choose what services you want to run. Yes.

5.) Not sure about this.

6.) HDMI is the prefered method of connection. Most sets also give you one component/composite combined input (either/or not both at same time). Ethernet cables are not necessary, you can use WiFi to access your router to your modem. You may need to get a router or barring that direct wire with Ethernet cables.

7.) Vizio has excellent customer service. No better or worse than others. They do have less parts available for repair work early on, but these are filled with salvage parts later on. Sony/Samsung/LG are better in this regard though. TCL not so much. Vizio usually just replaces broken sets with currently available sets at comparable pricing...under warranty. You can get a Square Trade warranty for up to 5 years if that makes you feel better. Many people do for higher priced sets. They are rock solid.
 
#7 ·
The Sony 55W810c is last years model but still on the shelf at many Best Buys. So hurry if you want this one.
 
#8 ·
This years Sony 55X800D should be right up your alley, too. But last years X810C model had a superior 120Hz panel while this years model has a slightly faster processor backing up the Android TV UI.
 
#9 ·
If you're going to do the Sony, go for the 55" 930D, it's going to be much better than the 800/810.

I'd probably go for the OLED in the 55" size though. I think the Sony's make a solid case for themselves in the 75" size because of value and being available in full FALD, but in a 55" I doubt you'll have many upscaling issues since it's a smaller screen anyway (the larger the screen the more obvious bad signals become) but uniform and excellent black levels can be enjoyed at any screen size.
 
#10 ·
My 2002 35" 1080i RCA CRT is on it's last electrons. That's how far behind I am in the technology I am.:confused: I'm looking for a 55" 4K TV.
Budget?

The LG OLED sets are considered the best in most ways (not all; peak luminance is less than some of the better LED/LCD sets). $2.5kUS.

Samsung UN55KS8000FXZA, $1.3k. It is certified as a premium HDR set: greater than 1000 nits peak luminance, plus WCG (wide color gamut). There are a number of trade-offs that come with the lower price, but you may be able to live with them. (Particularly if you aren't compulsive.) I wouldn't suggest a curved Samsung set, unless you're willing to place your eyes near the center of curvature of the cylinder.

A number of people here prefer the Sony XBR55X930D. $1.7k. (BestBuy prices. BB seems to be competitive for TVs.)

The lower-end HDR sets often use 8 bit panels (rather than 10 bits). I don't know how much you give up with that.

Any of these will weigh a wee bit less than a 35" CRT.;)

The richest single source of specs and reviews appears to be rtings.com.
 
#11 ·
Ralarcon-- I agreee on seeing the actual TV. In fact, I was looking at an incredible sharp detailed image on a Sony next to other 4K TV's when the salesman told me that the Sony was displaying a 1080i source. The result was so nice, I thought he was pulling my leg.

TuteTibiImperes and bobknavs-- I don't have a rigid budget per se. As I move up the line, the issue is whether the increment in performance/features is worth the increment in price. I would say my leading candidates would be the Sony 850D or the 850C if I can still find one. The 930D is $500 more and the only significant improvement I can see is array backlighting as opposed to edge lighting. Is that worth an extra 40%. You are not kidding about the weight of the huge CRT. It was all that me and my Viking, "strong as bull", girlfriend and I could do to lift it into place.
 
#12 ·
Full Array Local Dimming Backlight is far superior to Edge Lit Zone Dimming. Not even close.

Too bad the Vizio P55 is an S-IPS panel with the resultant blooming.
 
#13 ·
Just want to comment on two of your points.

HDR. Realize there are two competing standards. Some TV's support both. Most support one or the other. Odds are, one will win. The other will eventually die off. May want to keep that in mind. Also, only some TV's fully support one of the standards. Read up on this, too much to cover here.

Also, you made a comment about your cable box supporting 1080p. There's no need. There is not now, nor will there ever likely be, any broadcast content in 1080p. It's either 720p or 1080i. Mostly 720p.

1080p is only gaming content, blu-ray content or other digitally streamed content(although the compression on that digital streaming means even at 1080p resolution, it's a crappier picture than your over the air 720p signal by far). Most cable boxes won't even physically support 1080p. I need some satellite providers claim 1080p on their VOD assets. Fine, it'll still look pathetic due to the level of compression vs a good 720p over the air signal. The reality is they just use the 1080p label because it sounds better to people.

Now, someday we may have UHD level over the air transmissions...but no one is going to bother to upgrade to 1080p when 4k/UHD is around the corner. Just not worth it in the broadcast industry. So forget about the cable STB supporting 1080p. It's not really all that important.

I'd worry more about things like the HDR compatibility, having the number of HDMI inputs I need, the viewing angle the individual screen supports(a combination of the type of panel technology and the actual physical screen/glass tech they use) and the overall brightness of the TV, per the room you will be placing it in. The rest of the stuff is just fluff.

Oh and for the Smart TV functions...you may or may not be able to get new apps. You may or may not get upgrades for your existing apps. I'd lean towards "no" for sustained support. Everyone tends to change up the operating system they run their apps on every few years, so it's too much trouble to be supporting 3-4 different types of systems...especially 2-3 years after a TV was sold. I treat Smart TV functions as a light feature that may or may not continue to create any benefit. For less than $100 you can easily buy a new streaming unit that supports all the newest content and likely will be supported for 2-4 years if not longer and that's a much better investment. Just replace as necessary.
 
#17 ·
I understand that there are two competing standards for HDR encoding, and very little HDR encoded content at this point. Unfortunately, my purchase will not wait for those to resolve. With my TV dying, I'll be lucky to make it to the holiday sales of the 2016 models.:eek: The best I can hope for is that the HDR on set I choose this year will make some improvement in current non-HDR content and in the encoded content in the future. I'm not looking for a high end model, just the cheapest set I can get with the features I'm going to need in the future.
 
#18 ·
My suggestion to you is to buy one of the sets I recommended now, save some money, then buy into 4K in a couple of years once the dust settles. That way you can buy an OLED as the prices come down.

But that's just my opinion on the matter.
 
#21 ·
I personally am rooting for DolbyVision.

But there is no real future proofing to be had here. Because of the format war. That's why I recommend lowballing (but still getting a good quality picture) currently. Then buy into 4K in a few years.


But I wanted to touch on Smart TV features aka Apps. I just wouldnt bother with it too much, as someone else said they will be obsolete 3 years. Just use set top boxes and USB sticks for those features. Much easier to upgrade them and the box makers have more interest in updating them, generally speaking. Roku is my fav, but Apple TV, Amazon Fire, Googlecast, nVidia Shield, and now there is even a new Android TV box.
 
#22 ·
I just wanted to check in back here and thank everybody sincerely for all their help and education in my purchase decision. I ended up with the 55" Sony 850D. It was the one I really wanted. The most important driving factor being what I perceive (both in person and from the consensus of the opinions of others) as better upscaling of non-4K content. It was a bit more than I wanted to spend at $1,200, but I didn't want to cheap out and then always regret not buying what I really wanted. I was just having a very hard time pulling the trigger at $1,200 and I was seeing no sales but when I saw Best Buy put this model on sale for $999 this weekend, I knew I was not going to get a better deal by waiting any longer. They treated me very well including free delivery, which saved me from having to borrow somebody else's car since it won't fit in mine. As part of their delivery service they will haul away your old TV for $15, which was a HUGE deal to me because my 36" CRT monster weighs at least 200 lbs and is impossible for me to move without help and even more impossible to transport and dispose of. As a point of comparison, Fry's wanted $65 for delivery and haul away. When they wrote the deal, they threw in the haul away for free too, so all I paid was $999 plus sales tax and the mandatory California recycling fee. Delivery is in two days. Let's hope I win in the panel lottery.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
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