Samsung UN65KS9800 Ultra HD FALD LCD Review - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 101 Old 10-10-2016, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Are you are describing what you are seeing when you watch? I thought you meant I had a typo in my settings.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by brighter in this case? Are you taking measurements? Are you describing the look of specular highlights in HDR? Or are you describing the overall perceived
brightness of the picture?
When switching between Movie and Standard mode, I am noticing a significant bump in Overall brightness on the screen in Standard mode with less nits. Just thought it should be dimmer and not brighter according the nits difference. Doesn't matter what type of light in the room. Thnx.

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post #32 of 101 Old 10-10-2016, 11:45 AM
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What settings did you use while gaming? Game mode significantly reduces input lag, do you have any settings that provide for optimal HDR gaming picture?

Thank you!
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post #33 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
When switching between Movie and Standard mode, I am noticing a significant bump in Overall brightness on the screen in Standard mode with less nits. Just thought it should be dimmer and not brighter according the nits difference. Doesn't matter what type of light in the room. Thnx.
Don't be fooled by the menu text suddenly looking brighter when you switch to Standard.

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post #34 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Don't be fooled by the menu text suddenly looking brighter when you switch to Standard.
Not talking about the menu, talking about the entire picture/content.

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post #35 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
When switching between Movie and Standard mode, I am noticing a significant bump in Overall brightness on the screen in Standard mode with less nits. Just thought it should be dimmer and not brighter according the nits difference. Doesn't matter what type of light in the room. Thnx.
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Not talking about the menu, talking about the entire picture/content.
Long story short... I agree, my 1000-nit, Standard-mode HDR settings do look "brighter" than max brightness Movie mode HDR. Simply put, I find how the picture is rendered to be more favorable, with greater contrast and also a bit richer colors. It is what it is. The peak brightness of a 10% window is still higher in Movie mode HDR with the backlight maxed out but that spec alone can't tell you all that much about how the TV renders content.

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post #36 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Long story short... I agree, my 1000-nit, Standard-mode HDR settings do look "brighter" than max brightness Movie mode HDR. Simply put, I find how the picture is rendered to be more favorable, with greater contrast and also a bit richer colors. It is what it is. The peak brightness of a 10% window is still higher in Movie mode HDR with the backlight maxed out but that spec alone can't tell you all that much about how the TV renders content.
Thanks, I must agree with the few others that Standard is def. brighter with richer colors with HDR content and also helps tame any flashing/blooming that might come up in mOvie mode.

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post #37 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Thanks, I must agree with the few others that Standard is def. brighter with richer colors with HDR content and also helps tame any flashing/blooming that might come up in mOvie mode.
I have to agree to just watched my third UHD bluray in standard mode and probably the one that has the highest contrast ratio scenes in my collection of 13 UHD blurays '' The Martian ". The colors are deftinetly richer and not quite sure if it's perceived or actual but higher contrast. Also pretty sure we are getting deeper blacks with Mark's Standard Night Time mode compared to default movie HDR mode. The blooming/light bleed I experience on my KS9500 has descreased running in this mode aswell. Thanks again. I truly appreciate all your hard work!
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post #38 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 12:12 PM
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@imagic , any chance you might be reviewing another one of the Sammy SUHD"s (KS8000/KS8500)?


Thanks
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post #39 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 01:07 PM
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Mark, is there anyway you can contact samsung about the dimming issues of movie mode and hdr+, and point out to them about the bottom and top leds being better controlled in standard mode? As u can see in the pictures standard is much better. I forgot to snag a picture of smart led on high for standard but it cranked up the bottom and top leds just like on movie mode, making dark scenes unwatchable to me (turning backlight down doesn't lower the brightness of the edge/corner leds, they're still activated shining up).

Standard with Smart LED low is the only acceptable combination that I can find.

Here's the Shallows 4k BD.

Movie mode dimming is all jacked up. Luckily standard mode swoops in to save the day! Not perfect, but better led control. IMO this is completely fixable by firmware. Standard could still use some FW tweaking to get those leds all the way off though.

In summary here's where the dimming seems messed up and incorrectly keeps top and bottom leds lit when they shouldnt when hdr is inputted and a little on sdr:

Movie mode: smart led low and horribly on high

Hdr+ mode: smart led low and horribly on high

Standard mode: smart led high is bad, smart led low is greatly improved.


1st picture is smart led high movie mode (default settings, possibly used in shootout, too bright)

2nd picture is smart led turned low movie mode

3rd picture is smart led low standard mode.


.






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post #40 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Mark, is there anyway you can contact samsung about the dimming issues of movie mode and hdr+, and point out to them about the bottom and top leds being better controlled in standard mode? As u can see in the pictures standard is much better. I forgot to snag a picture of smart led on high for standard but it cranked up the bottom and top leds just like on movie mode, making dark scenes unwatchable to me (turning backlight down doesn't lower the brightness of the edge/corner leds, they're still activated shining up).

Standard with Smart LED low is the only acceptable combination that I can find.

Here's the Shallows 4k BD.

Movie mode dimming is all jacked up. Luckily standard mode swoops in to save the day! Not perfect, but better led control. IMO this is completely fixable by firmware. Standard could still use some FW tweaking to get those leds all the way off though.


1st picture is smart led high movie mode (default settings, possibly used in shootout, too bright)

2nd picture is smart led turned low movie mode

3rd picture is smart led low standard mode.


.



I'll point out your post, for sure. Quite a dramatic difference there.
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Last edited by imagic; 10-11-2016 at 04:42 PM.
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post #41 of 101 Old 10-11-2016, 04:49 PM
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@imagic

thanks for the great review!

i do have one area of concern, and its actually dealing with the soundbar, not the tv. i'm hoping you can provide some clarification.

i actually bought this soundbar in august (the samsung HW-K950). its been a solid performer so far, outside of the lack of dts codec support.

however, i'm starting to read on the soundbar's official avsforum chat thread that people are having issues getting the soundbar to pass hdr. some are saying there they contacted samsung support, and their official stance is that it doesnt pass hdr.

if this is true, this is a huge problem for me, since all reviews across the web indicated it did pass HDR.

tell me imagic, since you used this soundbar in conjunction with the tv you reviewed, did you have any issues with getting the soundbar to pass hdr content to the tv?

an answer would be much appreciated. again, thanks for the comprehensive review!

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post #42 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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@imagic

thanks for the great review!

i do have one area of concern, and its actually dealing with the soundbar, not the tv. i'm hoping you can provide some clarification.

i actually bought this soundbar in august (the samsung HW-K950). its been a solid performer so far, outside of the lack of dts codec support.

however, i'm starting to read on the soundbar's official avsforum chat thread that people are having issues getting the soundbar to pass hdr. some are saying there they contacted samsung support, and their official stance is that it doesnt pass hdr.

if this is true, this is a huge problem for me, since all reviews across the web indicated it did pass HDR.

tell me imagic, since you used this soundbar in conjunction with the tv you reviewed, did you have any issues with getting the soundbar to pass hdr content to the tv?

an answer would be much appreciated. again, thanks for the comprehensive review!
I had no problems at any point with connecting the UBD-K8500 to the HW-K950 and having it pass HDR to the KS9800. I just tried it again a minute ago; worked right away, so still no issue.
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post #43 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 07:14 AM
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I had no problems at any point with connecting the UBD-K8500 to the HW-K950 and having it pass HDR to the KS9800. I just tried it again a minute ago; worked right away, so still no issue.
Mark, thank you. that puts my mind to ease. would you highly recommend the UBD-K8500? I know Bill Hunt over at AVSforum did...I wanted to wait for the Oppo Ultra HD Blu-Ray player, but the samsung has a feature that can be enabled that will convert dts feeds to dolby, which with the Samsung soundbar, is definitely an important feature.

I contacted Oppo about the feature, and they said it won't be in the player initially, but could potentially be added down the line.
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post #44 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark, thank you. that puts my mind to ease. would you highly recommend the UBD-K8500? I know Bill Hunt over at AVSforum did...I wanted to wait for the Oppo Ultra HD Blu-Ray player, but the samsung has a feature that can be enabled that will convert dts feeds to dolby, which with the Samsung soundbar, is definitely an important feature.

I contacted Oppo about the feature, and they said it won't be in the player initially, but could potentially be added down the line.
I have no issue with the K8500. It's quite affordable, has worked reliably for me so far including streaming HDR content from Amazon.

I see what you're saying regarding the audio conversion setting. I think it's fair to say that Samsung has thought out how the TV, player, and soundbar interoperate.
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Last edited by imagic; 10-13-2016 at 07:48 AM.
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post #45 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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What settings did you use while gaming? Game mode significantly reduces input lag, do you have any settings that provide for optimal HDR gaming picture?

Thank you!
I was glad to see game mode lets you use warm1 and warm2; I used warm2 because it really is the most accurate and once your eyes adapt it isn't yellowish at all. So without further ado...

Game mode settings:

Backlight: 10 (dim/dark room) up to 17 (very bright room). Anything in between that suits your environment.
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 100
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Digital Clean View: N/A
Auto Motion Plus: Custom, Blur Reduction: N/A
Smart LED: High
HDMI Black Level: N/A
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Color Tone: Warm2
Gamma: 0
Color Space: Native (for exaggerated/neon colors) or Auto (for accurate colors) - Your choice
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Last edited by imagic; 10-12-2016 at 10:03 AM.
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post #46 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I was glad to see game mode lets you use warm1 and warm2; I used warm2 because it really is the most accurate and once your eyes adapt it isn't yellowish at all. So without further ado...

Game mode settings:

Backlight: 10 (dim/dark room) up to 17 (very bright room). Anything in between that suits your environment.
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 100
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Digital Clean View: N/A
Auto Motion Plus: Custom, Blur Reduction: N/A
Smart LED: High
HDMI Black Level: N/A
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Color Tone: Warm2
Gamma: 0
Color Space: Native (for exaggerated/neon colors) or Auto (for accurate colors) - Your choice
Wow! Thank you so much. Though Native doesn't track the 2020 spec, so Auto must always be better if upscaling from a One S correct?
Also I have a very warm lit room, so when I put it to warm 2 the picture looks awful. I will post a picture when I get home in FH3. In a warmly lit room, isn't standard the best to compensate for the already warm ambient light? Lastly, is there a discrepency to what is considered white in a picture vs what is white in real life? As in- snow to me is what white should look like on the screen, though putting it on warm causes it to look yellow. I'm thinking it's because of the light in my room.

Thanks!
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post #47 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by forager View Post
Wow! Thank you so much. Though Native doesn't track the 2020 spec, so Auto must always be better if upscaling from a One S correct?
Also I have a very warm lit room, so when I put it to warm 2 the picture looks awful. I will post a picture when I get home in FH3. In a warmly lit room, isn't standard the best to compensate for the already warm ambient light? Lastly, is there a discrepancy to what is considered white in a picture vs what is white in real life? As in- snow to me is what white should look like on the screen, though putting it on warm causes it to look yellow. I'm thinking it's because of the light in my room.

Thanks!
WARM 2 setting for me is such a trivial issue as everybody says its the most accurate but to me it paints a strong yellow tint over the entire screen and affects the colors of everything on the screen as well. I've tried and tried but just can't live it being on, the picture/colors become dull comparatively. PS: I watch in a sunny/ somewhat bright room, maybe that's the reason. Though I would think if my room is already sunny, I should adjust to Warm 2 easier - who knows. I can live with Warm 1 easily and use all the time.
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post #48 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forager View Post
Wow! Thank you so much. Though Native doesn't track the 2020 spec, so Auto must always be better if upscaling from a One S correct?
Also I have a very warm lit room, so when I put it to warm 2 the picture looks awful. I will post a picture when I get home in FH3. In a warmly lit room, isn't standard the best to compensate for the already warm ambient light? Lastly, is there a discrepency to what is considered white in a picture vs what is white in real life? As in- snow to me is what white should look like on the screen, though putting it on warm causes it to look yellow. I'm thinking it's because of the light in my room.

Thanks!
I have not found this to be the case... see my Auto vs. Native sweeps, they are just about identical.



There's nothing I can do to convince people that their eyes will adjust to warm2, perhaps it's a color temp only a calibrator can love. To my eyes, it looks right... but not right away. It does not matter because warm1 is totally fine to use, the reality is that people's eyes do adapt to color temperature..
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post #49 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I have not found this to be the case... see my Auto vs. Native sweeps, they are just about identical.



There's nothing I can do to convince people that their eyes will adjust to warm2, perhaps it's a color temp only a calibrator can love. To my eyes, it looks right... but not right away. It does not matter because warm1 is totally fine to use, the reality is that people's eyes do adapt to color temperature..
Was going to post a picture comparing the two color temperatures in FH3, but my phone's camera doesn't correctly display them. Also I noticed that you had Dynamic Contrast set to off while gaming? I must admit, I am having major dimming in forza horizon 3 in hdr. The picture is so dim that it is becoming intolerable. Dynamic Contrast set to high makes it much better, but in general the picture, even with max backlight in game mode is too dim and I am not sure if it is the game or the t.v that is causing it. Any suggestions?
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post #50 of 101 Old 10-12-2016, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I was glad to see game mode lets you use warm1 and warm2; I used warm2 because it really is the most accurate and once your eyes adapt it isn't yellowish at all. So without further ado...

Game mode settings:

Backlight: 10 (dim/dark room) up to 17 (very bright room). Anything in between that suits your environment.
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 100
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Digital Clean View: N/A
Auto Motion Plus: Custom, Blur Reduction: N/A
Smart LED: High
HDMI Black Level: N/A
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Color Tone: Warm2
Gamma: 0
Color Space: Native (for exaggerated/neon colors) or Auto (for accurate colors) - Your choice
Mark, great review. Curious, is there any reason why you have Smart LED on High for gaming and Low in the other SDR settings in your original post?
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post #51 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 03:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark, great review. Curious, is there any reason why you have Smart LED on High for gaming and Low in the other SDR settings in your original post?
Yes, I feel that games visually benefit from the higher contrast of Smart LED High. With games, it's all a choice. There is no standard the content is mastered to.
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post #52 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by forager View Post
Was going to post a picture comparing the two color temperatures in FH3, but my phone's camera doesn't correctly display them. Also I noticed that you had Dynamic Contrast set to off while gaming? I must admit, I am having major dimming in forza horizon 3 in hdr. The picture is so dim that it is becoming intolerable. Dynamic Contrast set to high makes it much better, but in general the picture, even with max backlight in game mode is too dim and I am not sure if it is the game or the t.v that is causing it. Any suggestions?
Is there a gamma adjustment within the game? If not, try a gamma setting of two or three on the TV. With games, it's all about what works for you.
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post #53 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forager View Post
Was going to post a picture comparing the two color temperatures in FH3, but my phone's camera doesn't correctly display them. Also I noticed that you had Dynamic Contrast set to off while gaming? I must admit, I am having major dimming in forza horizon 3 in hdr. The picture is so dim that it is becoming intolerable. Dynamic Contrast set to high makes it much better, but in general the picture, even with max backlight in game mode is too dim and I am not sure if it is the game or the t.v that is causing it. Any suggestions?
I am seeing the same dull image while playing Dues Ex, major dimming when HDR is on.

On another alarming note, you cannot have both HDR and Game mode on at the same time on KS9800 so forget either playing online or don't bother with new Xbox1S or PRO as you;ll be getting decimated in Multiplayers. Example being Battlefield 1, I believe its supposed to get the HDR patch on launch but when I played the beta I was getting destroyed until I switched the Game Mode on so HDR and HDR ready consoles are useless in this sense... you can't have both atleast on our sets.

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post #54 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 07:07 AM
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WARM 2 setting for me is such a trivial issue as everybody says its the most accurate but to me it paints a strong yellow tint over the entire screen and affects the colors of everything on the screen as well. I've tried and tried but just can't live it being on, the picture/colors become dull comparatively. PS: I watch in a sunny/ somewhat bright room, maybe that's the reason. Though I would think if my room is already sunny, I should adjust to Warm 2 easier - who knows. I can live with Warm 1 easily and use all the time.
Agree wholeheartedly with you regarding Warm2. Everytime I calibrate, Warm2 to is what I what get for the correct setting. After I finish my calibration, I test the picture and the first thing I do is change Warm2 to either Warm1 or Standard. Warm2 gives faces too much of a reddish look, never mind that the picture looks dull. I use Standard most of the time, but have used Warm1 a lot and am using it right now and it looks fine.
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post #55 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Agree wholeheartedly with you regarding Warm2. Everytime I calibrate, Warm2 to is what I what get for the correct setting. After I finish my calibration, I test the picture and the first thing I do is change Warm2 to either Warm1 or Standard. Warm2 gives faces too much of a reddish look, never mind that the picture looks dull. I use Standard most of the time, but have used Warm1 a lot and am using it right now and it looks fine.
Use warm1, it is a very neutral take on "cool white" that I subjectively find to be accurate looking.
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post #56 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 07:39 AM
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I have no issue with the K8500. It's quite affordable, has worked reliably for me so far including streaming HDR content from Netflix and Amazon.

I see what you're saying regarding the audio conversion setting. I think it's fair to say that Samsung has thought out how the TV, player, and soundbar interoperate.
Fairly certain the K8500 doesn't do HDR on Netflix, unless you meant just 4K content in general. Please confirm Mark, Ray.

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post #57 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 07:43 AM
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Use warm1, it is a very neutral take on "cool white" that I subjectively find to be accurate looking.
I used to use Warm1 all the time on my 78HU9000 and I found it to make facial features more natural. With the settings I use with the KS9800 (Backlight 6 or 7 and Gamma -2) I found that Standard made the facial features look more natural. For the last few days I have been using Warm1 and it looks fine.

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post #58 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Fairly certain the K8500 doesn't do HDR on Netflix, unless you meant just 4K content in general. Please confirm Mark, Ray.
You are right. Indeed, it turns out I never even signed into Netflix on the K8500... I only streamed it using the TV itself. Post edited, and I appreciate the heads-up.

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Last edited by imagic; 10-13-2016 at 07:52 AM.
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post #59 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 07:52 AM
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I am seeing the same dull image while playing Dues Ex, major dimming when HDR is on.

On another alarming note, you cannot have both HDR and Game mode on at the same time on KS9800 so forget either playing online or don't bother with new Xbox1S or PRO as you;ll be getting decimated in Multiplayers. Example being Battlefield 1, I believe its supposed to get the HDR patch on launch but when I played the beta I was getting destroyed until I switched the Game Mode on so HDR and HDR ready consoles are useless in this sense... you can't have both atleast on our sets.
Whole heartily agree! I have a confession: I am a ks8000 user, I just assumed that the better panel ks9800 would have HDR in game mode (couldn't afford the ks9800!). Sorry if my comments are now irrelevant but it the dimming issue seems to be happening across the board. To mitigate the issue, I turned Dynamic Contrast up to High, and Gamma to 2. Now everything looks bright and fine, though there is an artificial loss of detail since the contrast is technically making everything brighter. I just cannot deal with how dim it is normally, it is just too much. I don't understand why this is an "issue" and why it hasn't been fixed.
When flipping between Dynamic Contrast off, to High- at sunset the OFF setting retains the sun's rays but causes the colors to wash out while High retains the colors but causes the sun's rays to overstretch. This would not be a problem if the dimming wasn't occurring.
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post #60 of 101 Old 10-13-2016, 07:56 AM
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Is there a gamma adjustment within the game? If not, try a gamma setting of two or three on the TV. With games, it's all about what works for you.
Yes! I put the gamma up to 2 and Dynamic Contrast up to High. I read on a different forum that you were in contact with Samsung over the dimming issue while playing HDR content. If not, will there be a fix because as of right now Dynamic Contrast at High is very nice, but at times there is a slight loss of detail because it is making everything, well, brighter. Dynamic Contrast set to off is just unbearable how dim it gets. This wouldn't be an issue if the picture did not dim. HDR is supposed to enhance colors and retain detail in dark/bright areas but not sure if I am seeing the absolute benefits with the picture dimming and having to go to High in DC.
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