Samsung UN65KS9800 Ultra HD FALD LCD Review - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 101 Old 01-04-2017, 10:47 PM
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OK, a premium certified cable fixed the problems of signal cutting off randomly and quickly as well as desktop colour depth and 4:4:4 capability. $15

So it should be highlighted somewhere, everywhere, that a cable certified of carrying 18Gbs is an absolute requirement.
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post #92 of 101 Old 01-08-2017, 10:52 AM
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Good review...


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post #93 of 101 Unread 05-12-2017, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
To help simplify, what you are seeing with DC OFF is what the Director's intent was, with it ON you are giving it punchier/brighter look with loss of detail (especially in the shadows) and it is inaccurate. So really its up to you whether you want it ON or Off. Across 4 diff. Plasmas and LCDs I never turned DC on.
Hmm. This has provoked an argument on another thread. So, do you have any actual measured evidence for this "loss of detail" claim with Dynamic Contrast, please. Or is it just your own opinion? Either is fine, just would like to know. I doubt @imagic would have produced a calibration which used Dynamic Contrast if there was a loss of detail?
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post #94 of 101 Unread 05-12-2017, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
To help simplify, what you are seeing with DC OFF is what the Director's intent was, with it ON you are giving it punchier/brighter look with loss of detail (especially in the shadows) and it is inaccurate. So really its up to you whether you want it ON or Off. Across 4 diff. Plasmas and LCDs I never turned DC on.
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Hmm. This has provoked an argument on another thread. So, do you have any actual measured evidence for this "loss of detail" claim with Dynamic Contrast, please. Or is it just your own opinion? Either is fine, just would like to know. I doubt @imagic would have produced a calibration which used Dynamic Contrast if there was a loss of detail?
TIA
Let's take a moment to realize that every time a display manufacturer says the words "director's intent" they imply that the display they are talking about can somehow deliver precisely what the director dialed in when mastering the movie for home distribution. Well, I can tell you this... if it's a movie, the director intended that you see it on a big screen. So there's that!

But what's really key is that with HDR, consumer TVs can't perform like the grading monitor. OLEDs can't even get to 1000 nits in a small patch in Movie mode. Vizio's P Series tops off at 600 nits. Movies mastered to 4000 nits? Good luck. So let's face it, as of 2017, what you see on a consumer HDR display is not "directors intent" no matter if it's a OLED or LCD or whatever. You do what it takes to get the display to come as close as you can get it using the tools available. That's the beginning and end of it.
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post #95 of 101 Unread 05-12-2017, 05:24 AM
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No argument with any of that

But the issue about Dynamic Contrast and what it does? (If it helps, the case of a movie mastered to 1000 nits on a display capable of 1000nits)

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post #96 of 101 Unread 05-12-2017, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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No argument with any of that

But the issue about Dynamic Contrast and what it does? (If it helps, the case of a movie mastered to 1000 nits on a display capable of 1000nits)
I'm going by measurements and dynamic contrast helped me get where I wanted to go, that's about all there is to that.

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post #97 of 101 Unread 05-12-2017, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Hmm. This has provoked an argument on another thread. So, do you have any actual measured evidence for this "loss of detail" claim with Dynamic Contrast, please. Or is it just your own opinion? Either is fine, just would like to know. I doubt @imagic would have produced a calibration which used Dynamic Contrast if there was a loss of detail?
TIA
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Let's take a moment to realize that every time a display manufacturer says the words "director's intent" they imply that the display they are talking about can somehow deliver precisely what the director dialed in when mastering the movie for home distribution. Well, I can tell you this... if it's a movie, the director intended that you see it on a big screen. So there's that!

But what's really key is that with HDR, consumer TVs can't perform like the grading monitor. OLEDs can't even get to 1000 nits in a small patch in Movie mode. Vizio's P Series tops off at 600 nits. Movies mastered to 4000 nits? Good luck. So let's face it, as of 2017, what you see on a consumer HDR display is not "directors intent" no matter if it's a OLED or LCD or whatever. You do what it takes to get the display to come as close as you can get it using the tools available. That's the beginning and end of it.
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
No argument with any of that

But the issue about Dynamic Contrast and what it does? (If it helps, the case of a movie mastered to 1000 nits on a display capable of 1000nits)
We can discuss all day about the Director's intent, the person/technology used in grading the transfer, nit levels, and various diff. HT Displays available today but its not gonna get anywhere b/c each Display set is diff. and if you include the different settings on top of that, its a lost cause.
What you can do, like Imagic said, is to come as close to it as possible. To do that, you have to turn off most of the extra processing that comes loaded on your TV. I have seen at least 3 movies mastered at 1000 nits and trust me when I say this, the highlights do get clipped with DC. It doesn't take a ton of research to know this, only 20 minutes. Watch something for 10 Mins. with DC to Low even and then next 10 mins, watch the same content with it Off and you'll see so much extra detail. So if you are trying to convince someone regarding DC, you are just never gonna win. I say this b.c I have seen ppl on this very forum using Dynamic and Vivid Picture modes and they are happy with it, so its to each his own. But good luck trying to convince ppl otherwise.

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post #98 of 101 Unread 05-12-2017, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
We can discuss all day about the Director's intent, the person/technology used in grading the transfer, nit levels, and various diff. HT Displays available today but its not gonna get anywhere b/c each Display set is diff. and if you include the different settings on top of that, its a lost cause.
What you can do, like Imagic said, is to come as close to it as possible. To do that, you have to turn off most of the extra processing that comes loaded on your TV.
That is what I normally do do.

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I have seen at least 3 movies mastered at 1000 nits and trust me when I say this, the highlights do get clipped with DC. It doesn't take a ton of research to know this, only 20 minutes. Watch something for 10 Mins. with DC to Low even and then next 10 mins, watch the same content with it Off and you'll see so much extra detail.
Ok thanks I shall try. But what if (for whatever reason) they both look different, but I can't decide which looks better; in those circumstances DC off is "more correct", yes?

In imagic's calibration targeting 1000 nits on this thread, he specifically adjusted both gamma and DC. DC wasn't left off there?

Quote:
So if you are trying to convince someone regarding DC, you are just never gonna win.
No way, I have no intention of that . I just want to know for me.

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post #99 of 101 Unread 05-12-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
That is what I normally do do.
Ok thanks I shall try. But what if (for whatever reason) they both look different, but I can't decide which looks better; in those circumstances DC off is "more correct", yes?
In imagic's calibration targeting 1000 nits on this thread, he specifically adjusted both gamma and DC. DC wasn't left off there?
No way, I have no intention of that . I just want to know for me.
Imagic can correct me if I am wrong but the reason for DC on Low here is because its in Movie mode which is very Dim compared to Standard Mode and is necessary to hit 1000 nits. Therefore, its really not adding anything extra to the image here.

To open up another can of worms; to avoid flashlights on my TV, I now keep the SMART LED to low on HDR content and DC to Medium, which in turn churns out almost Identical picture as DC to Off and Smart LED to High so none of the details get clipped. So DC is okay in certain cases and it becomes a game of tradeoffs and whats more pleasing to you. PS: I use CAL Night mode, movie mode struggles as is for HDR.
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post #100 of 101 Unread 05-12-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
To open up another can of worms; to avoid flashlights on my TV, I now keep the SMART LED to low on HDR content and DC to Medium, which in turn churns out almost Identical picture as DC to Off and Smart LED to High so none of the details get clipped. So DC is okay in certain cases and it becomes a game of tradeoffs and whats more pleasing to you. PS: I use CAL Night mode, movie mode struggles as is for HDR.
Righto thanks. So if I understand correctly you're seeing that (both in HDR mode):
[Smart LED to Low and DC to Medium] churns out almost Identical picture with no details clipped as [Smart LED to High and DC to Off]
but there are more flashlights (blooming?) with the second one.

For my TV, KS8000 in USA it needs Smart LED=High to get above 500 nits. So yes there's a compromise to be made. I can use Cal Night (although I do find it difficult to see any difference between that an Movie with identical settings entered into both).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Righto thanks. So if I understand correctly you're seeing that (both in HDR mode):
[Smart LED to Low and DC to Medium] churns out almost Identical picture with no details clipped as [Smart LED to High and DC to Off]
but there are more flashlights (blooming?) with the second one.

For my TV, KS8000 in USA it needs Smart LED=High to get above 500 nits. So yes there's a compromise to be made. I can use Cal Night (although I do find it difficult to see any difference between that an Movie with identical settings entered into both).
yes the flashlights are much worse on the second option.

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