Samsung QLED TVs at CES 2017 - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
Wait for the FALD version ,I still think that they will release one. Now it will be very expensive.
I sure hope so, but I'm doubtful. I wish we could find out some more information already.
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post #362 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by droidlike View Post
samsung started using blue leds in the js 2015 sets ,
the ks 2016 sets do the same,

but no one know by now what leds are inside these q sets
that is
if they are still using blue leds or
uv leds

http://www.avsforum.com/all-about-quantum-dots-2/
They look pretty blue to me, same tone as KS series. And it still looks like it has LEDs at the bottom edge.



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post #363 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore
Wait for the FALD version ,I still think that they will release one. Now it will be very expensive.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ironsurvivor View Post
I sure hope so, but I'm doubtful. I wish we could find out some more information already.

http://english.etnews.com/20170105200002
.
.
.
“We are only going to introduce QLED TV at CES and then announce our new TV called ‘MU’ in the future.” said President Kim.

Technology has the shelf life of a banana
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post #364 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by roryh86 View Post
They look pretty blue to me, same tone as KS series. And it still looks like it has LEDs at the bottom edge.




Thanks to @imagic
it is now written on stones
that these q sets
are edge-led panels

that is, leds are in both side left and right...no bottom side of the panel !

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post #365 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droidlike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore
Wait for the FALD version ,I still think that they will release one. Now it will be very expensive.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ironsurvivor View Post
I sure hope so, but I'm doubtful. I wish we could find out some more information already.

http://english.etnews.com/20170105200002
.
.
.
?We are only going to introduce QLED TV at CES and then announce our new TV called ?MU? in the future.? said President Kim.
But what does future refer to? In a few months? Next CES? Years? Is MU full array lcd or is it a true electroluminescent qled?
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post #366 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ironsurvivor View Post
But what does future refer to? In a few months? Next CES? Years? Is MU full array lcd or is it a true electroluminescent qled?

maybe that only @imagic can have the answers

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post #367 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 12:38 PM
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post #368 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Makes sense now. Samsung is well aware of the yellow/green issue on oled and strategically used the banana comparison to their advantage as it will have the most pronounced difference.
I'm not going to fall for the banana in the tail pipe trick!


Quote:
Originally Posted by droidlike View Post
.
“We are only going to introduce QLED TV at CES and then announce our new TV called ‘MU’ in the future.” said President Kim.


MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Or is that...mew?

MULED You heard it here first

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post #369 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
I'm not going to fall for the banana in the tail pipe trick!






MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Or is that...mew?

MULED You heard it here first

http://english.etnews.com/20170105200002

.
.
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Product that was introduced on this day was applied with metallic material and improved Quantum-Dot function significantly.

Samsung Electronics also reconfirmed its plan to develop luminescent QLED TV by continuously developing its level of Quantum-Dot technologies.

“Although it is difficult to tell exact timing of release of luminescent QLED product at this moment, we have made a significant progress from technical aspect.” said Vice-President Han Jong-hee of Samsung Electronics who attended this meeting.
.
.


.
.
.

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post #370 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by roryh86 View Post
They look pretty blue to me, same tone as KS series. And it still looks like it has LEDs at the bottom edge.



wow looks awful
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post #371 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 01:04 PM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
wow looks awful
maybe that we all should have been there in person ...as it has already been pointed out ....

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post #372 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Oh I know. I'm watching my C6 right now. I just find it...annoying...how much bias can be found even for something as trivial as a TV.

The need not just to have better than others but show it off. Human psychology is awesome.

For instance, when OLED "fan boys" brought up off angle viewing as an obvious negative for LCD's in the past, a lot of the defense was "Who cares, it's not like anyone is sitting that far off angle anyways." Yet now that the problem might finally be solved its suddenly a huge deal.

Again. Not bashing. I want the best no matter what technology. Just find it humorous and annoying how hypocritical people can be.

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As an OLED owner, in my countless hours of research coming to a decision (which I may go back on for a 75" Q7 or LG LCD just for the extra inches, I love the set), I found the OLED fan boys to be insufferable. I was the started of the Z9 thread and it was brutal.

Seems they like to flock to LCD/LED threads anytime there is good news and defend there investment and poo-poo on everyone else. And this FALD madness is ridiculous. I've done a lot of critical viewing lately and the Samsung edge-lit was not much different than the FALD on the high end sets. Vizio M series is FALD and people aren't going ga-ga over those sets.

I'm excited for these sets and the prospect of a 75" set that I can afford which rich color and solid black detail. It's unlikely to happen because I only have until 1/14 decide and a limited budget but I'm hoping and given my research, short of serious motion issues on the KS9000 it held it's own
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post #373 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 01:21 PM
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it seems that qled got accelerated and brutally unleashed so going super stellar in last november 2016 when samsung aquired qd vison ?

http://english.etnews.com/20161122200001

.
.
Samsung Electronics is taking over QD Vision, which is an American business that specializes in quantum-dot (QD) materials, for $70.0 million (83.0 billion KRW) in order to secure competitive edge in premium TV technologies that are applied with QD films. It is also predicted that Samsung Electronics will speed up its process of development of QLED (QD LED) that is being researched as next-generation display.
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post #374 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
As an OLED owner, in my countless hours of research coming to a decision (which I may go back on for a 75" Q7 or LG LCD just for the extra inches, I love the set), I found the OLED fan boys to be insufferable. I was the started of the Z9 thread and it was brutal.

Seems they like to flock to LCD/LED threads anytime there is good news and defend there investment and poo-poo on everyone else. And this FALD madness is ridiculous. I've done a lot of critical viewing lately and the Samsung edge-lit was not much different than the FALD on the high end sets. Vizio M series is FALD and people aren't going ga-ga over those sets.

I'm excited for these sets and the prospect of a 75" set that I can afford which rich color and solid black detail. It's unlikely to happen because I only have until 1/14 decide and a limited budget but I'm hoping and given my research, short of serious motion issues on the KS9000 it held it's own
ALL Fanboys are insufferable. Not just OLED. I watched the Z9 thread from the start and it would be irresponsible to pin the reset that thread had to endure just on one group. That's an unbiased truth. Especially when some on the other side of the fence were purposely using the phrase "OLED Killer" just to incite childish playground arguments. I also find it funny when people say "If you own an OLED, why are you commenting in an LCD thread"...unless there is a segregation policy that exists in AVS's ToS agreement I don't know about? Plenty of people thread hop in other sections peacefully. Again, not attacking you or anyone else. Just pointing out no one side is an innocent party in these playground arguments.

Concerning the FALD uproar...if this new edge light iteration works just as good or better than FALD, no one will complain once they see it with their own eyes. But until that happens, it makes sense for their to be uproar considering FALD was, up until possibly now, the only way for LCD to advance itself in the face of a new emissive technology on the rise (OLED).

People might not have gone ga-ga over the Vizio M Series...but the P series, for the price, is a phenomenal FALD set that, to my knowledge, rates higher than any of the edge lit sets from 2016 for overall PQ. Vizio showed that FALD can be done cheap but right for the mainstream consumer. Again, if this new edge lit Sammy pulls it off it's a moot point. We just need to wait and see it ourselves (going back to the ridiculousness of judging any TV from pictures).
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post #375 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by droidlike View Post
it seems that qled got accelerated and brutally unleashed so going super stellar in last november 2016 when samsung aquired qd vison ?

http://english.etnews.com/20161122200001

.
.
Samsung Electronics is taking over QD Vision, which is an American business that specializes in quantum-dot (QD) materials, for $70.0 million (83.0 billion KRW) in order to secure competitive edge in premium TV technologies that are applied with QD films. It is also predicted that Samsung Electronics will speed up its process of development of QLED (QD LED) that is being researched as next-generation display.

The purchase was for the actual qled name which was already copyrighted. The tv itself was already in development. You can't create a whole new pixel structure and new quantum dot formula in 30 days.
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post #376 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 02:10 PM
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Would it be irresponsible of me to purchase a KS8000 65inch before knowing the prices of these new ones? Trying to stay under 2k but would love to have a 75inch
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post #377 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droidlike View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore
Wait for the FALD version ,I still think that they will release one. Now it will be very expensive.







http://english.etnews.com/20170105200002
.
.
.
“We are only going to introduce QLED TV at CES and then announce our new TV called ‘MU’ in the future.” said President Kim.


Would be great if Mark can find out if the MU is higher than qled or lower.

1. MU MIGHT be the 8k quantum dot prototype I posted about earlier. The person on twitter who posted that picture said it might be released later this year. Not sure of that was opinion or if that's what samsung told them.

2. "MU" might be the mid range line under the QLED line following previous lines such as HU, JU, KU.
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post #378 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Would be great if Mark can find out if the MU is higher than qled or lower.

1. MU MIGHT be the 8k quantum dot prototype I posted about earlier. The person on twitter who posted that picture said it might be released later this year. Not sure of that was opinion or if that's what samsung told them.

2. "MU" might be the mid range line under the QLED line following previous lines such as HU, JU, KU.

the answer you are looking for is exactly in that url, that is:

Samsung Electronics is going to introduce highest-class QLED TV and new lineup of medium and high-priced LCD TVs as TV lineup in 2017.

One of its model called ‘MU’ is a high-class LCD TV that is designed to target medium and high-priced TV markets.

“We are only going to introduce QLED TV at CES and then announce our new TV called ‘MU’ in the future.” said President Kim.

Samsung Electronics is seeing that quality of their TVs is approaching perfection through QLED TV.

Due to their belief, it is working on developing additional technologies that can provide convenience to consumers along with quality.
.
.
.
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post #379 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 02:35 PM
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The off-angle viewing improvements are impressive.

These is visible pixel structure (within each individual pixel) that causes a mild DSE from up close. I believe this is the 'shimmering others have referred to.

The 'Contrast Room that Samsung set up to show blacks was disappointing - am ant light varied between bright and dim and only high-brightness was displayed. I've several things on various sets that have convinced me blacks will be nowhere close to OLED levels.

So my preliminary assessment is: significant improvement in VA-class viewing angles (OLED-Like) but at most incremental improvements in black level (not close to OLED-level).

LG, by way of contrast (pun intended ) had a tunnel and a corner/wall which were close to pitch-black and showing off lots of 'bright-on-black' content.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
As an OLED owner, in my countless hours of research coming to a decision (which I may go back on for a 75" Q7 or LG LCD just for the extra inches, I love the set), I found the OLED fan boys to be insufferable. I was the started of the Z9 thread and it was brutal.

Seems they like to flock to LCD/LED threads anytime there is good news and defend there investment and poo-poo on everyone else. And this FALD madness is ridiculous. I've done a lot of critical viewing lately and the Samsung edge-lit was not much different than the FALD on the high end sets. Vizio M series is FALD and people aren't going ga-ga over those sets.

I'm excited for these sets and the prospect of a 75" set that I can afford which rich color and solid black detail. It's unlikely to happen because I only have until 1/14 decide and a limited budget but I'm hoping and given my research, short of serious motion issues on the KS9000 it held it's own
FALD makes a HUGE difference in light control in dark scenes. Even the 2015 60" M-series that I owned had far superior light control compared to my current 65"KS8000, and the current P-series has four times as many dimming zones.
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post #381 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 02:46 PM
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You know this isn't QDCF because at no point does Samsung say it is -- anywhere.

Of course they'd be shouting this from the rooftops, with lots of tech speak, if it were implemented.

You know this with something resembling 100% certainty.

It seems like the innovation here in black levels is based on better AR coatings (i.e. in ambient light) and likely better manufacturing tolerances on the "new panel".

And there is something in the "new panel" that allows for VA to avoid a gigantic contrast loss off axis, a trick IPS has been able to perform for a while, albeit without the same contrast as VA.

Samsung makes an obscene amount of LCDs. It's not shocking they're getting better at it. That the QDEF layer is improved is good for color and also for overall light output. Maybe it relates to how they've achieved some of the off-axis benefits, but that's much less clear.

What they haven't done is built a quantum dot color filter. At least not for these.
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There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #382 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 02:46 PM
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Hmm. Been on the fence about a new display. Just starting a basement build and have been shopping OLED or a projector but this new display looks very promising. I have no dog, nor time for the fanboy stuff but everything I have seen so far this new sammy looks very promising. Just have to see where the prices come out at.
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Hmm. Been on the fence about a new display. Just starting a basement build and have been shopping OLED or a projector but this new display looks very promising. I have no dog, nor time for the fanboy stuff but everything I have seen so far this new sammy looks very promising. Just have to see where the prices come out at.
Projectors are great if you can set them up as a dedicated source in a well-controlled environment. They also act as space heaters, which is great..
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Would it be irresponsible of me to purchase a KS8000 65inch before knowing the prices of these new ones? Trying to stay under 2k but would love to have a 75inch
Yes. The prices now are worse than they were during Thanksgiving, so it doesn't make sense to jump on one now.
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post #385 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 03:17 PM
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I really don't want to jump to conclusions, but it seems as though the black levels are not going to be near as good as what a full array set like the js9500 or the ks9800 are in reproducing blacks. If they cannot compete with those then i guess i will have to look at oled or wait until next year and see if they release true emissive qled.
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post #386 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 03:42 PM
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FALD makes a HUGE difference in light control in dark scenes. Even the 2015 60" M-series that I owned had far superior light control compared to my current 65"KS8000, and the current P-series has four times as many dimming zones.
KS8000 puts out a lot more nits than the Vizio.
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post #387 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 03:44 PM
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I do not understand Samsung's decision to not add Dolby Vision.

It seems that Dolby Vision will grow in 2017. How does Samsung plan to sell new TVs in the mid market and upper market with no Dolby Vision. I could see if Sony was still holding out but Sony is releasing Dolby Vision TVs. For uninformed consumers, it might okay that there is no Dolby Vision, but uniformed consumers would probably just buy cheaper TVs in Walmart etc. anyway and Best Buy salespeople, who usually pushes Sony anyway, will likely immediately point out that Samsung has no Dolby Vision, so consumers at Best Buy will likely know about the lack of Dolby Vision on Samsung's within a minute or two of talking to a salesperson there.
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post #388 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 04:29 PM
 
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But what does future refer to? In a few months? Next CES? Years? Is MU full array lcd or is it a true electroluminescent qled?
I hope it is by June 30th or I am screwed. Unless, LG clarifies the QDs in their color filter.
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post #389 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
You know this isn't QDCF because at no point does Samsung say it is -- anywhere.

Of course they'd be shouting this from the rooftops, with lots of tech speak, if it were implemented.

You know this with something resembling 100% certainty.

It seems like the innovation here in black levels is based on better AR coatings (i.e. in ambient light) and likely better manufacturing tolerances on the "new panel".

And there is something in the "new panel" that allows for VA to avoid a gigantic contrast loss off axis, a trick IPS has been able to perform for a while, albeit without the same contrast as VA.

Samsung makes an obscene amount of LCDs. It's not shocking they're getting better at it. That the QDEF layer is improved is good for color and also for overall light output. Maybe it relates to how they've achieved some of the off-axis benefits, but that's much less clear.

What they haven't done is built a quantum dot color filter. At least not for these.
I think you might have nailed it. The first day of the CES is for the press? Correct. So when during all these interviews with the Samsung folks how come no one presses them on why the blacks are better? The closest I get for an explanation is something along the lines that the panels defuses light better. These may well end up being very decent displays if black uniformity is excellent albeit at evaluated levels compared to an OLED.
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post #390 of 2587 Old 01-06-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ironsurvivor View Post
I really don't want to jump to conclusions, but it seems as though the black levels are not going to be near as good as what a full array set like the js9500 or the ks9800 are in reproducing blacks. If they cannot compete with those then i guess i will have to look at oled or wait until next year and see if they release true emissive qled.
I went back to the Samsung booth to check out the QLED TVs again.

Viewing angles are really impressive but the sparkles are more pronounced during blacks/shadow detail. From far enough back it won't be noticeable, but almost looks like a plasma from up close.

More importantly, pretty sure I saw evidence of banding in dark scenes as well as black crush. It's almost as though the number of but/levels is reduced to drive near black into black.

This is tough to assess because there is precious little dark scenes (or rather partially dark scenes) on display anywhere and they won't let you inspectors the scene from up close. But because they have 'conventional LCDs' playing the same loops in parallel, I'm pretty sure I was able to catch 2-3 scenes where shadow detail was inferior on the QLED to its conventional brethren...

We'll just need to wait for professional reviewers (and AVSers ) to get ahold of these new QLEDs...
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