Samsung QLED TVs at CES 2017 - Page 83 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2461 of 2490 Old 03-19-2017, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Well, that and and the direction the light comes from on the Q9 and therefore the shape/distribution of those dimming blocks. Q9 is effectively 32-zone FALD (two columns, each one with 16 zones) and consequently it can effectively black out letterbox bars.

And while I was able to coax a higher peak/dynamic number out of a Q7 than the Q9, even basic measurements show the Q9 can offer greater calibrated, sustained luminescence over a larger area of the screen than the Q7.

Thanks for that, I'll probably count the zones myself just to be sure but from what I have seen this looks to be accurate.
I think side edge lit with zones is much nicer for most content than top-to-bottom zones, but subtitles can be a blooming pain with letterboxed movies. Have you come across any subtitled content and how did it look?
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post #2462 of 2490 Old 03-19-2017, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
2 X 16 confirmed
Wow, so it really is a true ELPD. No 'array' about it.

Your enthusiasm for this TV is giving me pause, but other that that, a 2x16 backlight configuration puts it more in the class of the Vizio E-Series than the Vizio M-Series, and at more than 4-times the cost, the 'junk' designation is starting to sound pretty convincing...

Aside from superior processing, reduced processing artifacts, what is it about this Samsung Q9 that makes you believe it is superior to a Vizio E-Series? (and superior at 4X the price to be clear).

To be even more clear, this Samsung Q9 has the same number of dimming zones as a Vizio M65 costing $1250 and supporting HDR, so you think it's the 2-3x higher peak HDR brightness justifies the significant premium or is there something more to it than that?
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post #2463 of 2490 Old 03-19-2017, 11:01 PM
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I'm really liking the look of the remote. How is it in use compared to the one that shipped with the KS8000?

Do you know if you can buy the remote? Is it totally comparable with the 8000?
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post #2464 of 2490 Old 03-19-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
The main difference between the Q7, Q8, and Q9.

Q7: 12 dimming blocks

Q8: 12 dimming blocks

Q9: 32 Dimming blocks (side edge lit)

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1405...d-q7f-compared
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Q9 is effectively 32-zone FALD (two columns, each one with 16 zones) and consequently it can effectively black out letterbox bars.

Here's how a 2x16 grid looks overlayed on some photos. Of course the boundaries of the actual zones are softer, and it looks like the TV modulates multiple zones to allow (for example) a moving white square on a black background to maintain its luminosity as it travels down the screen.

Spoiler!

Thank you @ray0414 and @imagic for that info, link, and pics.



So the Q9 has exactly double the number of "dimming zones" than my 2015 JS9000 Series - which was also side-edge-lit and Samsung's best edge-lit model for 2015 (as you know, they moved the LEDs to the bottom for the 2016 models).

(2 columns of 16 zones vs. 2 columns of 8 zones)

Since my JS9000 already has excellent local dimming (for an edge-lit TV that is) the Q9 should be even better (too bad they dropped 3D though). FYI: with the "Cinema Black" feature, my letterbox bars are always inky black on widescreen movies.

Do you see any significant "light-bleed" or "clouding" issues? (I rarely notice any on my TV)


Richard
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post #2465 of 2490 Old 03-19-2017, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Wow, so it really is a true ELPD. No 'array' about it.

Your enthusiasm for this TV is giving me pause, but other that that, a 2x16 backlight configuration puts it more in the class of the Vizio E-Series than the Vizio M-Series, and at more than 4-times the cost, the 'junk' designation is starting to sound pretty convincing...

Aside from superior processing, reduced processing artifacts, what is it about this Samsung Q9 that makes you believe it is superior to a Vizio E-Series? (and superior at 4X the price to be clear).

To be even more clear, this Samsung Q9 has the same number of dimming zones as a Vizio M65 costing $1250 and supporting HDR, so you think it's the 2-3x higher peak HDR brightness justifies the significant premium or is there something more to it than that?
VS E-series:
120Hz vs 60Hz. 32 zones vs 12. 99% DCI-P3 vs 85% DCI-P3. 2000 nits vs 350 nits. Slim cable hiding thing vs regular cables.

VS M-series:
Both 120Hz. 32 zones vs 64 zones. 99% DCI-P3 vs 81% DCI-P3. 2000 nits vs 400 nits. Slim cord hiding thing vs regular cables.

Honestly, I can get why he's defending the set. It's not like it's garbage.

I too think Samsung went insane with the pricing, though. Especially on the Q7. The thing is, people are still gonna buy it.
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post #2466 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
On my 65Q7F... I'm using Natural/Warm1, and it looks much better.
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Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
The "Natural" picture mode (at least on past models) has never been considered to be a very "accurate" picture mode (if you happen to care about that sort of thing).

Additionally, many of the advanced picture settings - such as the "White Balance" settings for instance - are not available in that mode.
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Your own personal experience with other TVs or what rumors you've heard about calibration don't interest me very much...

Anyhow, I'm not recommending that anyone should use Natural mode rather than Movie mode...

That's funny, because I remember that when you first owned your 2015 JS Series (the same TV I have) you made the exact same recommendation/observation about using the "Natural" picture mode.

From the Samsung JS9000 Thread:
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
I calibrate by eye -- no instruments -- and I always set up all modes. My goal is a realistic picture (as opposed to a standard picture). Right now, I'm using the Natural picture mode with other settings as below.
Looks good, to me:
  • backlight 17
  • contrast 55
  • brightness 62
  • sharpness 30
  • color 39
  • color tone warm1
with other settings at default.
Hey! Just sayin' my friend!



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post #2467 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Wow, so it really is a true ELPD. No 'array' about it.

Your enthusiasm for this TV is giving me pause, but other that that, a 2x16 backlight configuration puts it more in the class of the Vizio E-Series than the Vizio M-Series, and at more than 4-times the cost, the 'junk' designation is starting to sound pretty convincing...

Aside from superior processing, reduced processing artifacts, what is it about this Samsung Q9 that makes you believe it is superior to a Vizio E-Series? (and superior at 4X the price to be clear).

To be even more clear, this Samsung Q9 has the same number of dimming zones as a Vizio M65 costing $1250 and supporting HDR, so you think it's the 2-3x higher peak HDR brightness justifies the significant premium or is there something more to it than that?
The only thing I can come up with (and it's a total wild ass guess) is that perhaps they have multiple leds per channel with different reflectors, so instead of just 32 static zones, perhaps each zone is doing some sort of "beamforming" and can bias light to different parts of the zone. If they could do that well enough I'm sure it would be comparable, but I doubt they are doing anything that advanced.
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post #2468 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Wow, so it really is a true ELPD. No 'array' about it.

Your enthusiasm for this TV is giving me pause, but other that that, a 2x16 backlight configuration puts it more in the class of the Vizio E-Series than the Vizio M-Series, and at more than 4-times the cost, the 'junk' designation is starting to sound pretty convincing...

Aside from superior processing, reduced processing artifacts, what is it about this Samsung Q9 that makes you believe it is superior to a Vizio E-Series? (and superior at 4X the price to be clear).
Lol, not having this conversation as this is starting to resemble a Facebook discussion and I have to actually review this TV instead of debate silly hypotheticals with you.

It has nothing to do with belief and everything to do with the picture the you wind up seeing on the screen.

I am confident I will see a 2017 M Series in my studio this year, that's the more interesting comparison.
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post #2469 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
The only thing I can come up with (and it's a total wild ass guess) is that perhaps they have multiple leds per channel with different reflectors, so instead of just 32 static zones, perhaps each zone is doing some sort of "beamforming" and can bias light to different parts of the zone. If they could do that well enough I'm sure it would be comparable, but I doubt they are doing anything that advanced.
Where did this stuff even come from?

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post #2470 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 05:33 AM
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Starting to sound like the AVS science fiction forum.
Not junk, but way overpriced and overhyped.
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post #2471 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by locomo View Post
Starting to sound like the AVS science fiction forum.
Not junk, but way overpriced and overhyped.
I'm gonna step away from the Q7 unless I find a way to get some more measurements in. I'll be over in my Q9 thread and working on in-depth calibration results for a hands-on review I hope to finish by tomorrow. I'll be checking here to see how the Q7 thing turns out.
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post #2472 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
That's funny, because I remember that when you first owned your 2015 JS Series (the same TV I have) you made the exact same recommendation/observation about using the "Natural" picture mode.
Not a recommendation, not then or now. And both settings I changed my mind about. With the JS9000, I eventually settled on the conventional Movie/Warm2, and that is also what I'm using now for the Q7F. When there is something unusual about my setup, I feel obliged to mention it, but such remarks are not recommendations -- more like warnings.
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post #2473 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Where did this stuff even come from?
I think there was some marketing copy, maybe at CES, that said something about dual plane or two layer or whatever for the edge light. Maybe that was all speculation, can't recall (Sony definitely showed a demo of this with their 930E, so it's definitely a thing). So I think people are trying to comport that copy/reports with your actual experience.

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post #2474 of 2490 Old 03-20-2017, 11:33 AM
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Found this review:
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/03/s...ralian-review/

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Rtings just posted video review on youtube of the Q7.

1 thing that sticks out to me is that the new full size 1 connect box needs to be plugged in for power. The new fiber optic cord cannot act as a power source like previous OCBs.


EDIT: looks like rtings pulled the video, I only made it halfway through, then I paused it, and when I hit play it was gone and I can't find it via searching on youtube. Assuming it'll be back up soon.

65KS9800 *new*. 65JS9500 4K HDR and lots of it!
MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN


Review of KS9800vsJS9500 w/side by side pix: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post45720113

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post #2476 of 2490 Old 03-21-2017, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Rtings just posted video review on youtube of the Q7.

1 thing that sticks out to me is that the new full size 1 connect box needs to be plugged in for power. The new fiber optic cord cannot act as a power source like previous OCBs.


EDIT: looks like rtings pulled the video, I only made it halfway through, then I paused it, and when I hit play it was gone and I can't find it via searching on youtube.
Good Ol' Rtings... lol

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post #2477 of 2490 Old 03-21-2017, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Rtings just posted video review on youtube of the Q7.

1 thing that sticks out to me is that the new full size 1 connect box needs to be plugged in for power. The new fiber optic cord cannot act as a power source like previous OCBs.


EDIT: looks like rtings pulled the video, I only made it halfway through, then I paused it, and when I hit play it was gone and I can't find it via searching on youtube.
They pulled it because in the input lag section it was showing 20.4ms for the Sony x900e and it is actually 31ms. Also in pc mode the q7 has 19ms of input lag and full 4:4:4 so they didn't even mention that.

I wish the Sony had 20ms of lag, I would go up to Best Buy right now and buy one if that was the case!!
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post #2478 of 2490 Old 03-21-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Rtings just posted video review on youtube of the Q7.

1 thing that sticks out to me is that the new full size 1 connect box needs to be plugged in for power. The new fiber optic cord cannot act as a power source like previous OCBs.


EDIT: looks like rtings pulled the video, I only made it halfway through, then I paused it, and when I hit play it was gone and I can't find it via searching on youtube. Assuming it'll be back up soon.

Yes I received the notification ,it was gone quick.Now waiting to be back on the channel.

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post #2480 of 2490 Old Yesterday, 01:45 PM
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So let me get this right about the Q9. 32 dimming zones on an edge lit tv for 6000$....where do I sign up....not....lol.
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post #2481 of 2490 Old Yesterday, 02:16 PM
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So far for me QLED has been a HUGE disappointment.
Overpriced junk at most.
And they are promoting that they are besting OLED at CES and in their websites.. come on
I love my Samsung S7, and my old JU7100, but they really did a bad step with that QLED bs
In brief, Qled is nothing new, nothing impressive
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Originally Posted by Clement Afficial View Post
So far for me QLED has been a HUGE disappointment.
Overpriced junk at most.
And they are promoting that they are besting OLED at CES and in their websites.. come on
I love my Samsung S7, and my old JU7100, but they really did a bad step with that QLED bs
In brief, Qled is nothing new, nothing impressive
I have been following this thread for awhile and along with seeing Rratings review of Q7 I feel that I made right decision to buy KS8500 series sets last November at rock bottom pricing.
I haven't seen QLED in BB yet but I suspect they are not a big improvement from KS. QLED moniker is just a revamp marketing scheme by Samsung for SUHD Quantum dot. My three KS8500 sets still amaze me with picture quality and don't think Q7 or Q8 would have been worth waiting for at much higher price.
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post #2483 of 2490 Old Yesterday, 10:07 PM
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I just went to best buy and they have the 65" Q7 that I returned advertised as an open-box unit for $150 more than I paid for it new. Apparently the retail price is actually $4000 instead of the $3500 I somehow managed to pay. At $3500, the TV was embarrassingly overpriced; at $4000, the world has stopped making sense. I say that half joking, because the obvious answer here is that the price is actually a marketing tool to make it seem like QLED is a new technology more akin to OLED than to a standard LCD. It's a cynical, but probably effective, ploy. Someone who doesn't know any better will go in looking to go high-end and the pricing will set QLED up as on an equivalent quality tier as OLED; the fact that the QLED is brighter will probably be enough to fool many people into thinking it is the superior technology. Throw in the fact that the store is too bright to properly judge anything, especially black levels/uniformity, and you can see how much of a marketing ploy this thing really is.

I exchanged for a ks8000 and I promise you that there is nowhere near $2500 difference between it and the Q7. Even saying that, I think I'll probably be returning the KS8000 for my first purchase of a non-Samsung TV in a decade (last non-Samsung brand I had was Mitsubishi, if you can believe that); I've been very brand loyal over the years, but the buying experience this year has turned me off to them.
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Originally Posted by Clement Afficial View Post
So far for me QLED has been a HUGE disappointment.
Overpriced junk at most.
And they are promoting that they are besting OLED at CES and in their websites.. come on
I love my Samsung S7, and my old JU7100, but they really did a bad step with that QLED bs
In brief, Qled is nothing new, nothing impressive
Will the no doubt glowing reviews from the "pros" save Samsung??
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post #2485 of 2490 Old Today, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by richbleak View Post
I just went to best buy and they have the 65" Q7 that I returned advertised as an open-box unit for $150 more than I paid for it new. Apparently the retail price is actually $4000 instead of the $3500 I somehow managed to pay. At $3500, the TV was embarrassingly overpriced; at $4000, the world has stopped making sense. I say that half joking, because the obvious answer here is that the price is actually a marketing tool to make it seem like QLED is a new technology more akin to OLED than to a standard LCD. It's a cynical, but probably effective, ploy. Someone who doesn't know any better will go in looking to go high-end and the pricing will set QLED up as on an equivalent quality tier as OLED; the fact that the QLED is brighter will probably be enough to fool many people into thinking it is the superior technology. Throw in the fact that the store is too bright to properly judge anything, especially black levels/uniformity, and you can see how much of a marketing ploy this thing really is.

I exchanged for a ks8000 and I promise you that there is nowhere near $2500 difference between it and the Q7. Even saying that, I think I'll probably be returning the KS8000 for my first purchase of a non-Samsung TV in a decade (last non-Samsung brand I had was Mitsubishi, if you can believe that); I've been very brand loyal over the years, but the buying experience this year has turned me off to them.
I think the days of folks going in store to make an expensive blind purchase are pretty much at an end - most folk do at least a bit of "real world" research and not just fall for the marketing bs or previous brand loyalty. Of course a few will make impulse buys but that won't be enough to move too many QLED TV's out the door at the current price point.
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post #2486 of 2490 Old Today, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rikkyjames View Post
I think the days of folks going in store to make an expensive blind purchase are pretty much at an end - most folk do at least a bit of "real world" research and not just fall for the marketing bs or previous brand loyalty. Of course a few will make impulse buys but that won't be enough to move too many QLED TV's out the door at the current price point.
I hope you are right and Samsung fail really bad.
Because spending money on those TVs will not contribute in the future of the technology.
If we all blindly buy them overpriced TVs , they will just do the same next year, and the next, and the next... milking us like drug junkies.
But if we do our best to not buy those new crap TVs, that will really teach them a lesson, and the chance that they do the same will be really slim.
And we would still be evolving in technology because Samsung is making ALOT of money, they can afford this lost, but if they dont, another company will take their place and never dare do the same again.
So folks, I know you are really tempted in buying those "Q"LED Tv because it is something new, but I really advise not to do it, buy an OLED instead or wait next year.
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post #2487 of 2490 Old Today, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rikkyjames View Post
I think the days of folks going in store to make an expensive blind purchase are pretty much at an end - most folk do at least a bit of "real world" research and not just fall for the marketing bs or previous brand loyalty. Of course a few will make impulse buys but that won't be enough to move too many QLED TV's out the door at the current price point.
Have any factual evidence to support this? I still see people walk into Magnolia, see the beautiful images, and walk out with a high-end TV. What category does this fall into?

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post #2488 of 2490 Old Today, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert9674 View Post
So let me get this right about the Q9. 32 dimming zones on an edge lit tv for 6000$....where do I sign up....not....lol.
In fairness, the Q9 is supposed to be more or less the equal to the KS9800 according to Mark - better in some areas especially brightness, color, and processing, and mostly equal and sometimes falling slightly - but only slightly - short in blacks. Not saying it's worth $6k for 65" but I'm betting that by Black Friday it'll be under $3k. I'd still take an OLED at that size/price but if you love super bright specular highlights in HDR I could see going for the Q9.

Now the Q7 and 8 OTOH...

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post #2489 of 2490 Old Today, 06:28 AM
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While I have no intention of purchasing a Samsung Q9, I find all the posts bashing it interesting since I'm not aware of anyone on AVS besides Mark having a display in their house. We all think everyone sits around in a dark room watching TV, Samsung isn't stupid (corrupt at the top yes), they know a vast majority of buyers watch with the lights on - thus the appeal of a display pumping out nits with vibrant colors. Prices are absurd, but we also should know by now that most displays will be half their MSRP by black friday - unless we see some fun on the trade side before then.

I'll wait for Mark's review before burying Samsung as a high-end option, but let's keep the clicks coming for him in the meantime.

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post #2490 of 2490 Unread Today, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by audacious nick View Post
Have any factual evidence to support this? I still see people walk into Magnolia, see the beautiful images, and walk out with a high-end TV. What category does this fall into?
I would say that is an impulse buy - what category do you think it falls into??
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