Samsung QN65Q9F 65" QLED-LCD TV Review, Part 1 - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 708 Old 04-13-2017, 12:46 AM
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You can see the blooming in their video, especially on the white lettering against a black background, even with the lights on

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post #272 of 708 Old 04-13-2017, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post
You can see the blooming in their video, especially on the white lettering against a black background, even with the lights on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZmabsZB1fs
thanks
but,this is not what I was asking about!

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Anyone from the forum members who can translate/understand German,please tell us what they are saying about Q9!
Samsung refereeing to this magazine and telling people that their tests indicated that Q9 is the best tv they have ever tested!
something wrong here!
is this magazine reliable?
is samsung telling the truth?
do they buy their test units?

http://www.technite-video.de/
thanks in advance
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post #273 of 708 Old 04-13-2017, 08:01 AM
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thanks
but,this is not what I was asking about!
Not much interesting, it get's the best mark mainly by having a huge colour space, brightness and natural colour reproduction (Farbdarstellung). And he also raves about the viewing angle ...
They give it three of their product awards: Reference, Highlight and Innovation.
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post #274 of 708 Old 04-13-2017, 09:01 AM
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Not much interesting, it get's the best mark mainly by having a huge colour space, brightness and natural colour reproduction (Farbdarstellung). And he also raves about the viewing angle ...
They give it three of their product awards: Reference, Highlight and Innovation.

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post #275 of 708 Old 04-13-2017, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post
You can see the blooming in their video, especially on the white lettering against a black background, even with the lights on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZmabsZB1fs
I suspect that may be a from the camera capturing it...

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post #276 of 708 Old 04-14-2017, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by OLED4UNME View Post
You can see the blooming in their video, especially on the white lettering against a black background, even with the lights on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZmabsZB1fs
i hate the samsung QLEDs as much as any informed buyer, but that effect is a result of the brightness of the letters - happens on anything once it hits high levels of brightness, even OLED.
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post #277 of 708 Old 04-14-2017, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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i hate the samsung QLEDs as much as any informed buyer, but that effect is a result of the brightness of the letters - happens on anything once it hits high levels of brightness, even OLED.
Not sure why an informed buyer would stoop to that most negative of emotions, hate. IMO some folks are being excessively dramatic regarding expressing opinions on these TVs, but I fully understand that's par for the course on the Internet.

Agreed, you'll get a halo effect from camera lenses sometimes, when there's too much contrast. And IRL the lenses in your own eyes can cause that effect as well.
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post #278 of 708 Old 04-14-2017, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Not sure why an informed buyer would stoop to that most negative of emotions, hate. IMO some folks are being excessively dramatic regarding expressing opinions on these TVs, but I fully understand that's par for the course on the Internet.

Agreed, you'll get a halo effect from camera lenses sometimes, when there's too much contrast. And IRL the lenses in your own eyes can cause that effect as well.
yeah, i was more referring to the effect on our own eyes. I saw my B6 "bloom" all the time on bright white text on black backgrounds.

An informed buyer would recognize Samsungs efforts for what they are - an attempt at Samsung to screw them and take their money with a product that's nowhere near the price of what it's worth.

Ever been in a negotiation before where the other party is blatantly trying to con you with respect to the quality of what they're trying to sell, AND at a ridiculous price to boot? Yeah, sorry - but that behavior isn't met with a positive emotion.
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post #279 of 708 Old 04-14-2017, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
yeah, i was more referring to the effect on our own eyes. I saw my B6 "bloom" all the time on bright white text on black backgrounds.

An informed buyer would recognize Samsungs efforts for what they are - an attempt at Samsung to screw them and take their money with a product that's nowhere near the price of what it's worth.

Ever been in a negotiation before where the other party is blatantly trying to con you with respect to the quality of what they're trying to sell, AND at a ridiculous price to boot? Yeah, sorry - but that behavior isn't met with a positive emotion.
In that case what you hate is the price. There's no reason to hate the TV itself, at least not the Q9F, it's a tremendous TV in many ways. But the price is silly.

But hey, I don't know who would EVER buy a TV at launch MSRP. I mean seriously. But sure, Samsung's prices cause vertigo. Anyhow, semantics.
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post #280 of 708 Old 04-14-2017, 07:22 AM
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In that case what you hate is the price. There's no reason to hate the TV itself, at least not the Q9F, it's a tremendous TV in many ways. But the price is silly.

But hey, I don't know who would EVER buy a TV at launch MSRP. I mean seriously. But sure, Samsung's prices cause vertigo. Anyhow, semantics.
shrug, the samsung Q9 launch price made the price i paid for my launch 75 inch sony 940e (250+ zone FALD) look like a STEAL!
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post #281 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 01:21 PM
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Days not weeks. But not tomorrow, either. Next week at latest.
It's now the middle of next week so ................... ?
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post #282 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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It's now the middle of next week so ................... ?
So... unfortunately I'm busy. Getting part 1 out early was a big effort, but there's lots else I have to attend to. I'll do what I can, but with AXPONA this weekend and the stuff that just kinda pops up, looks like I'm (probably) not gonna make it to a full part 2 this week. I have not had a chance to even touch the TV recently, working on audio reviews. Well, shame on me for setting a deadline when it was not required . I won't make that mistake again, instead I will just work towards the goal.
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post #283 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 02:01 PM
 
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I suspect that may be a from the camera capturing it...
Yeah, no doubt the camera blown out from how bright it is. No doubt the Samsung QLED is way over price for what you get, but there is no way there is that much bloom in a room that much ambient light. Just for reference here is a pic of the same camera blooming on the new Sony A1E OLED, which we know should not bloom.

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post #284 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 02:10 PM
 
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So... unfortunately I'm busy. Getting part 1 out early was a big effort, but there's lots else I have to attend to. I'll do what I can, but with AXPONA this weekend and the stuff that just kinda pops up, looks like I'm (probably) not gonna make it to a full part 2 this week. I have not had a chance to even touch the TV recently, working on audio reviews. Well, shame on me for setting a deadline when it was not required . I won't make that mistake again, instead I will just work towards the goal.
I don't know how many reviews they have you working on at one time, but for future reviews I would suggest just hitting the bullet points. Quick calibration, a few measurements, checked with some real content. Then go back and do the deep review if there is a lot of interest or something unique about the tech.
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post #285 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know how many reviews they have you working on at one time, but for future reviews I would suggest just hitting the bullet points. Quick calibration, a few measurements, checked with some real content. Then go back and do the deep review if there is a lot of interest or something unique about the tech.
Yeah I'm on the same page with ya.

The thing is, that's easy when you understand a TV. When you've got a TV that does not even have a finished reviewer's guide to simply explain how the new features work, I'm left figuring things out on my own. This is the first time I've ever dealt with being first to get a new model TV. And even though readers here see an edgelit LCD, nothing new... what I see is a TV that's using different algorithms and presenting new behaviors.

I spent a day baffled by the behavior of the new Brightness control, for example. Things are not the same as in years past, and hasty measurements could easily product an errant, and potentially controversial result.

Watching the Q9F... isn't it sad I can't find the time to enjoy this fine TV, that's calibrated to near perfection? It's ridiculous.

But... I think I'll mostly aim to make the full review exactly what you just described.

Ultimately, I review audio a lot more than TVs, and I've got those reviews down to a fairly standard 2000-2400 words and they contents are just as you describe. Good advice, thanks.

It's important to note I'm not just a reviewer. I also write up press releases, cover trade and audio shows, create polls, share stuff on social media, do "Ask the Editors" pieces, put together the newsletter, organize the homepage, participate in numerous discussions, share stuff on social media, and more. I wish I was a full-time reviewer, but really it's just one of the hats I wear.

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post #286 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 03:12 PM
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So... unfortunately I'm busy. Getting part 1 out early was a big effort, but there's lots else I have to attend to. I'll do what I can, but with AXPONA this weekend and the stuff that just kinda pops up, looks like I'm (probably) not gonna make it to a full part 2 this week. I have not had a chance to even touch the TV recently, working on audio reviews. Well, shame on me for setting a deadline when it was not required . I won't make that mistake again, instead I will just work towards the goal.
OK maybe I misunderstood your position here. I assumed, apparently mistakenly, that as "Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum" you were a paid employee, and therefore would have to finish your assigned tasks in accordance with some agreed to schedule. However, if you're just an AV enthusiast donating your free time to do these reviews, then I fully understand that you would have other priorities.
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post #287 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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OK maybe I misunderstood your position here. I assumed, apparently mistakenly, that as "Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum" you were a paid employee, and therefore would have to finish your assigned tasks in accordance with some agreed to schedule. However, if you're just an AV enthusiast donating your free time to do these reviews, then I fully understand that you would have other priorities.
Oh I am paid. I'm just not paid to dwell on a review for days, my quota is for daily posts, not a review every two weeks or whatever. In terms of editorial calendar, there are other things that take precedence over reviews because reviews A. typically take a long time to complete in any sort of a thoughtful manner and B. are not as time-sensitive as actual news.

Long story short, there are other priorities that can delay reviews (I have 10 reviews that need to be done in my queue). And those other priorities exist because of my job, not despite it.

I make time to do long reviews by fulfilling my quota of other types of posts and other work, and then fitting the review work in when I can. Flagship TVs are time sinks, much more complex than a pair of speakers. A review like this, a lot of the motivation is the education I get about HDR and video formats and colorimetry. I'm not driven by a deadline, and I'm surely not motivated by non-supportive posts.

Anyhow, I set my own schedule for reviews. If I decide this review's part II posts in July, that's when it posts. (I won't do that, but my point is I have that discretion). I certainly don't mean to make people wait or to disappoint anyone in terms of how long a 2-part review (which I've never done before) takes to complete. I probably won't do it again if it's an issue.

Please see the post I just made a few minutes ago regarding what else I have to spend my time doing as Associate Editor. We don't have a big staff here; it's myself, Scott Wilkinson, and Ralph Potts for editorial.

Anyhow, the point is, doing a review like this is essentially me acting as an enthusiast. But, it's also part of my job. Hope that makes sense.

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post #288 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 07:00 PM
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It's now the middle of next week so ................... ?
No, it won't be the middle of next week for quite some time.

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post #289 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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No, it won't be the middle of next week for quite some time.
As I noted, I will refrain from offering estimates going forward, if I ever do a 2-part again.

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post #290 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 08:26 PM
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It has more to do with the TV than anything else...
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post #291 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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It has more to do with the TV than anything else...
What I'll do is start posting calibration reports here as I produce them. I presume nobody here cares about another homeage article (an official part II) and mostly just want to see the measurements.

That's doable, I won't make anyone wait until I am "done" per se. I am going to use this thread as the comments for the homepage part II anyhow, so I'll just start putting my impressions and measurements here. Starting tomorrow.

And that's how it goes.

But first I have to write up the news about HDR10+ coming to Amazon and 2016 plus 2017 Samsung TVs.
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post #292 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 09:33 PM
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Samsung and Amazon announced hdr10+ partnership. 1st announced hdr10+ content. They also 2016 samsungs getting updated in 2nd half 2017 . The announcement mentions the darkness issue with static hdr10 and how that darkness is not director intended.



https://news.samsung.com/us/hdr10-pl...tandard-hdr10/
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post #293 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Samsung and Amazon announced hdr10+ partnership. 1st announced hdr10+ content. They also 2016 samsungs getting updated in 2nd half 2017 . The announcement mentions the darkness issue with static hdr10 and how that darkness is not director intended.


https://news.samsung.com/us/hdr10-pl...tandard-hdr10/
Yep just recently got the email, decided to stay up and turn it into a story. Good news, in the morning I won't have to look for another story, I can put the darned meter on the screen and get some pretty charts and hard numbers posted.

I'm quite thrilled to see what dynamic metadata can do for these TVs. I saw the grading software in use, and there's no question you can achieve better contrast and tone scene-by scene by applying dynamic metadata. I can't wait until tools like that are available to consumers/prosumers i.e. built into Adobe Premiere.

http://www.avsforum.com/hdr10-coming...msung-uhd-tvs/

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post #294 of 708 Old 04-19-2017, 10:11 PM
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As I noted, I will refrain from offering estimates going forward, if I ever do a 2-part again.
You missed a play on words...

Anyway, I associate the way you're approaching this. Figuring out how a new processing method works (and taking the time to explore it) is akin to reviewing an audio calibration system, a new standard (Atmos/DTSX/DSU/NX), or something like that, so it's good you're taking the time and it adds a useful different perspective from a purely numbers review (rtings) or a more subjective one (Forbes). All have their place, as the numbers we use may not capture all relevant info but they also aren't as prone to one off bias as more subjective perceptions (of course numbers and the tests we choose could be prone to deeper systemic biases but that's a whole other wormhole).

Setups:
Spoiler!
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post #295 of 708 Old 04-21-2017, 05:52 AM
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Did I miss Part II of this review? Not seeing it anywhere...

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post #296 of 708 Old 04-21-2017, 06:12 AM
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Did I miss Part II of this review?
No but you clearly did miss all of the posts just above yours, where the reasons for the delay were discussed .

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post #297 of 708 Old 04-21-2017, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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No but you clearly did miss all of the posts just above yours, where the reasons for the delay were discussed .
The very first calibration results are posted in the OP. A classic movie mode rec. 709 calibration with a target peak luminance of approx. 135 nits (just under 40 foot-lamberts).

I stuck with a 2-point color balance adjustment, which yielded great results. I also did not touch the CMS.

This was done with local dimming set to low, configured like this, it's behavior is like SDR TVs of the past.

After that, I turned local dimming to medium and tweaked that calibration for a 200-nit peak luminance, which was easily done. Medium local dimming has highlight peaking, it's not HDR+ mode but it does crisp up the image and make it pop a bit more. I find it's look preferable to textbook rec.709 and local dimming low.

I am on a flight with Internet, will try and post the 200-nit calibration results while in the air.
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post #298 of 708 Old 04-21-2017, 06:42 AM
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No but you clearly did miss all of the posts just above yours, where the reasons for the delay were discussed .
Have not read in a while thinking there would be a second Article posted on the main page but guess not.

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post #299 of 708 Old 04-21-2017, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The very first calibration results are posted in the OP. A classic movie mode rec. 709 calibration with a target peak luminance of approx. 135 nits (just under 40 foot-lamberts).

I stuck with a 2-point color balance adjustment, which yielded great results. I also did not touch the CMS.

This was done with local dimming set to low, configured like this, it's behavior is like SDR TVs of the past.

After that, I turned local dimming to medium and tweaked that calibration for a 200-nit peak luminance, which was easily done. Medium local dimming has highlight peaking, it's not HDR+ mode but it does crisp up the image and make it pop a bit more. I find it's look preferable to textbook rec.709 and local dimming low.

I am on a flight with Internet, will try and post the 200-nit calibration results while in the air.
Might be a moot question Mark but is the Post Calibration Gamma of 2.36 with Smart LED to Low or Medium, or does that not matter? Thanks.

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Last edited by b0rnarian; 04-21-2017 at 07:02 AM.
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post #300 of 708 Old 04-21-2017, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Might be a moot question Mike but is the Post Calibration Gamma of 2.36 with Smart LED to Low or Medium, or does that not matter? Thanks.
That's with it set to Low, I just added some more comments to the OP and will continue to do so. Smart LED is now actually called Local Dimming in the menu.

Local Dimming Regular has highlight peaking. I will post those numbers shortly. If you just switch local dimming from Low to Medium and do nothing else, peak luminance goes up, to around 180 nits from 135 nits with the Low setting.

Waiting for takeoff to go to AXPONA, lol.

Mark Henninger (aka Imagic)
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