Samsung QN65Q9F 65" QLED-LCD TV Review, Part 1 - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 418 Old 05-18-2017, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Even if they don't provide the firmware update immediately, I hope they at least respond and acknowledge it is an issue they are working on. Though I'm going back this weekend to test how gaming is on it in 4K, unless that completely blows me away after gaming on my 70" Elite, I'm somewhat reluctant to put down about $9,250 (US) with vertical banding....especially when one person says you wouldn't notice it and another says its pretty bad.
Why would you spend 9,250 on a 75" Q9 which has no FALD or Dolby Vision? You can spend less than that on the 75" Sony Z9 which has the best blacks for LCD and its motion and picture processing are the best of any brand. It has also Dolby Vision.
Even the 75" 940E would be much better than the Q9 and it's only half the price at 5 grand.
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post #392 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by FullyArray View Post
Has anyone seen the latest review from HDTV Polska? Looks like tv is a major step down from the KS9800 in nits and dimming.

My god at this screen uniformity

-42% -13% -14% -13% -34%
-48% -6%. -2% -5% -34%
-47% -4% ref. -11% -33%
-44% -11% -9% -13% -37%
-33% -11% -12% -16% -29%

https://hdtvpolska.com/samsung-q9-te...-qled-2017-65/
Wow that doesn't look good. Google translating the review seems to indicate that they wonder whether their unit was a one-off in poor uniformity. Many of the test don't seem to have good results, but they do conclude that they like the TV overall.
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post #393 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mgrana View Post
Why would you spend 9,250 on a 75" Q9 which has no FALD or Dolby Vision? You can spend less than that on the 75" Sony Z9 which has the best blacks for LCD and its motion and picture processing are the best of any brand. It has also Dolby Vision.
Even the 75" 940E would be much better than the Q9 and it's only half the price at 5 grand.
Because I went to two different stores this week with two completely different lighting situations and I came away unimpressed with the Z9, especially with normal DirectTV signals which are a significant portion of my viewing habit. As far as Dolby Vision, I think these forums are overly obsessed with it and it isn't a priority to me. Everyone's eyes see the world different. I trust my eyes before forum supplied data and I liked the picture of the Q9 better. Unfortunately​the banding has me hesitant for now.
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post #394 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 02:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Because I went to two different stores this week with two completely different lighting situations and I came away unimpressed with the Z9, especially with normal DirectTV signals which are a significant portion of my viewing habit. As far as Dolby Vision, I think these forums are overly obsessed with it and it isn't a priority to me. Everyone's eyes see the world different. I trust my eyes before forum supplied data and I liked the picture of the Q9 better. Unfortunately​the banding has me hesitant for now.
Some people have been ridiculous in their discounting of the Q9 because it's edgelit. As for Dolby Vision, considering how many titles are available on disc, what surprises me is the enthusiasm people have for streaming video. Hey, if Dolby Vision somehow makes streaming cool, I'm for it. But at the end of the day, the catalog of DV titles is not big enough to make or break a TV purchase. I doubt it will take long for HDR10+ to achieve parity with DV as far as title availability goes.

The reality is the Q9 looks spectacular, simple as that.
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Last edited by imagic; 05-19-2017 at 02:28 AM.
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post #395 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Some people have been ridiculous in their discounting of the Q9 because it's edgelit.

But reality is the Q9 looks spectacular. Simple as that.
Most people probably wouldn't disagree with that, however they look at the price realize it doesn't look that good. There seems to be absolutely zero value proposition with the Q9, or the rest of the QLED lineup for that matter. None. Equivalent or better TV's can be had elsewhere for significantly less money. I think some observers hit the nail on the head when they said Samsung priced and named these to fool ignorant consumers (most of the public) that these are those 'fancy new OLED TVs' they've been hearing about. If people want to pay through the nose for these TV's though, that's their prerogative.
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post #396 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Some people have been ridiculous in their discounting of the Q9 because it's edgelit. As for Dolby Vision, considering how many titles are available on disc, what surprises me is the enthusiasm people have for streaming video. Hey, if Dolby Vision somehow makes streaming cool, I'm for it. But at the end of the day, the catalog of DV titles is not big enough to make or break a TV purchase. I doubt it will take long for HDR10+ to achieve parity with DV as far as title availability goes.

The reality is the Q9 looks spectacular, simple as that.
Having both the Z9 and Q9, both tvs display a fantastic picture. Just superb. However, after having my Q9 for a week now and playing with the settings, I would give it the nod in overall picture rating. For this unit to be an edge lit, it sure does pack a punch. Having said that, the banding issue is likely the worse i have ever seen. now, I replaced my Z9 due to faint banding in the middle of the screen. But, the Q9 is ridiculously awful. Samsung needs to get out in front of this issue and correct if possible. Otherwise, the Q9 will not get the proper recognition it deserves when it comes to its picture. if the banding cannot be corrected, I will likely go back to the Z9.
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post #397 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 06:39 AM
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Guess the big question is whether can firmware fix banding issue.. else might be worth waiting for 2018 TVs!
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post #398 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FullyArray View Post
Has anyone seen the latest review from HDTV Polska? Looks like tv is a major step down from the KS9800 in nits and dimming.

My god at this screen uniformity

-42% -13% -14% -13% -34%
-48% -6%. -2% -5% -34%
-47% -4% ref. -11% -33%
-44% -11% -9% -13% -37%
-33% -11% -12% -16% -29%

https://hdtvpolska.com/samsung-q9-te...-qled-2017-65/
I think these guys give one of the best review with details & real world examples for TV reviews.
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post #399 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dominica View Post
I think these guys give one of the best review with details & real world examples for TV reviews.
I agree. They seem to test every aspect quite thoroughly.
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post #400 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ugadog99 View Post
Having both the Z9 and Q9, both tvs display a fantastic picture. Just superb. However, after having my Q9 for a week now and playing with the settings, I would give it the nod in overall picture rating.
interesting. The only place the q9 beats the z9 on paper is color volume. So it seems that brightness and color volume are actually quite important to picture quality, especially considering the significanct contrast advantage (and control afforded by FALD) that the z9 has.

Did you consider/compare q9 against OLED?
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post #401 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by vipergts2207 View Post
Most people probably wouldn't disagree with that, however they look at the price realize it doesn't look that good. There seems to be absolutely zero value proposition with the Q9, or the rest of the QLED lineup for that matter. None. Equivalent or better TV's can be had elsewhere for significantly less money. I think some observers hit the nail on the head when they said Samsung priced and named these to fool ignorant consumers (most of the public) that these are those 'fancy new OLED TVs' they've been hearing about. If people want to pay through the nose for these TV's though, that's their prerogative.
I wouldn't say zero value if you are a gamer. From everything I am reading, gaming on this if you were gaming on a similar size in 1080P is quite the jump up with excellent response times compared to most recent TVs. Do I think that is worth 10K alone, no. However, I could say the same thing about 77" OLEDs. The price jump from 65" is absurd, just like the price is absurd for the Q9. The question one has to ask which I am asking myself is if I want to be absurd, which I might, or wait another year to see what happens. I have two choices, game in 4K on an unbelievable 27" Gsync monitor 2 feet from the screen with an Nvidia 1080TI Card, or suck it up and game at 75" in 4K from my couch. As a gamer who overspends on everything including an Oculus Rift Virtual Reality Headset with an extremely powerful desktop, I tend to overpay for the latest and greatest :-). Someone else might say there are plenty of 2015 and 2016 sets that might give you the same benefit. However, if I'm already going to upgrade for gaming, I want something pleasing to the eye for TV watching....and the Q9 so far to me without spending a few thousand more for the A1E and worrying about image burn or retention on the screen is the best choice available. I'll confirm this when I go to the store today or Sunday to connect my desktop to the Q9 to see if the gaming lives up to the hype.

I do have one question for anybody here since i need to run back to the store. Is there a particular DIrectTV broadcast, mode or setting that I can tell the salesperson to put the TV on to easily see the color banding? Someone above made it sound like it was so horrible, but when I was in the store I didn't see color banding either watching 4K, watching HBO, or any of the 4 DIrectTV channels I watched. Then again, I wasn't looking for it. Maybe I'll see it in my gaming test.

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Originally Posted by dominica View Post
I think these guys give one of the best review with details & real world examples for TV reviews.
Just for those people that don't translate or read the article and despite what was posted here, their conclusion is as follows:

A rating of "highly recommended" is awarded optionally, hoping that the problem of the uniformity of the screen cover only the test sample .

PROS HDR effect great good class edge LCD TVs, very good in all classes Excellent representation of the traffic at the sport, one of the best TV in this respect Very low input lag, also in HDR mode - ideal for the PC and console players High brightness sensor SDR - a good choice for sun rooms The widest among LCD color palette - DCI 99% Performing at the highest level 360 design, the TV looks very elegantly on both the front and rear Large picture calibration options Nice black, clearly better than in other TV series QLED Viewing angles a little better than in a typical matrix VA The new system Tizen Great co-operation with external devices (one remote control) Fully ready for Ultra HD TV reception (satellite, terrestrial) Support for HDR television (HLG)

MINUSES Edge illumination despite the high-end TV character Poor viewing angles (though good in the class of matrices VA)
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
Just for those people that don't translate or read the article and despite what was posted here, their conclusion is as follows:

A rating of "highly recommended" is awarded optionally, hoping that the problem of the uniformity of the screen cover only the test sample .

PROS HDR effect great good class edge LCD TVs, very good in all classes Excellent representation of the traffic at the sport, one of the best TV in this respect Very low input lag, also in HDR mode - ideal for the PC and console players High brightness sensor SDR - a good choice for sun rooms The widest among LCD color palette - DCI 99% Performing at the highest level 360 design, the TV looks very elegantly on both the front and rear Large picture calibration options Nice black, clearly better than in other TV series QLED Viewing angles a little better than in a typical matrix VA The new system Tizen Great co-operation with external devices (one remote control) Fully ready for Ultra HD TV reception (satellite, terrestrial) Support for HDR television (HLG)

MINUSES Edge illumination despite the high-end TV character Poor viewing angles (though good in the class of matrices VA)
Agree with that, all of that.

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post #404 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 02:36 PM
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Because I went to two different stores this week with two completely different lighting situations and I came away unimpressed with the Z9, especially with normal DirectTV signals which are a significant portion of my viewing habit. As far as Dolby Vision, I think these forums are overly obsessed with it and it isn't a priority to me. Everyone's eyes see the world different. I trust my eyes before forum supplied data and I liked the picture of the Q9 better. Unfortunately​the banding has me hesitant for now.
You will miss Dolby Vision gaming too not just movies.
These QLED have really bad uniformity which is due to edge lit technology. You will see this in dark scenes and during evenings.
Look at what they said in the other Q9 thread "Show some flaws. ;real world content,Blooming ,extreme contrast differences pitch black room, captions"
Q9 is not a smart purchase at the end of the day. If it were half the price, then maybe a bit more understandable to consider.
But even then, there are better TV's for 5 grand with better picture, blacks, uniformity, and more future proof.
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You will miss Dolby Vision gaming too not just movies.
These QLED have really bad uniformity which is due to edge lit technology. You will see this in dark scenes and during evenings.
Look at what they said in the other Q9 thread "Show some flaws. ;real world content,Blooming ,extreme contrast differences pitch black room, captions"
Q9 is not a smart purchase at the end of the day. If it were half the price, then maybe a bit more understandable to consider.
But even then, there are better TV's for 5 grand with better picture, blacks, uniformity, and more future proof.
I went to a local store today to game on the Q9 playing Witcher 3. What I'll say is that I felt it looked fantastic. At a 12' distance which is the distance between my couch and the screen, all of these things that people mention are irrelevant to me. It just looked real good. However, despite that, what I do agree with, is that the benefit of this 75" TV isn't worth the current price. HOWEVER, neither are any of the other OLEDs I was interested in (LG W7/G7, A1E)...and again, I was far from impressed with the Z9 with everyday viewing of Direct TV in two different stores. So on that note, I've decided instead to buy a 34" Ultrawide Gsync 100hz monitor along with another 1080TI gaming computer for about 40% of the price of the Q9 and go back to gaming at my desk instead of my living room and leave the living room for TV Viewing only (and my Virtual Reality Headset) as the Elite is more than good enough even after all these years for regular TV and Netflix. I think I need to wait another year or two when the price makes more sense based on what content is readily available. I've come to the conclusion that buying a TV now at these OLED Prices and Q9 prices is for enthusiasts only, the wealthy, or early adopters. Now I need to post this in the OLED thread I created which will hopefully close that discussion.
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post #406 of 418 Old 05-19-2017, 06:11 PM
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So on that note, I've decided instead to buy a 34" Ultrawide Gsync 100hz monitor along with another 1080TI gaming computer for about 40% of the price of the Q9 and go back to gaming at my desk instead of my living room and leave the living room for TV Viewing only (and my Virtual Reality Headset) as the Elite is more than good enough even after all these years for regular TV and Netflix
Don't miss out on HDR gaming!!! ASUS announced a 144hz 4k HDR gaming monitor with FALD backlight and 1000nit brightness. If you're talking about owning multiple 1080TI cards this is definitely the monitor for you...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11014/...cip3-and-gsync
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Don't miss out on HDR gaming!!! ASUS announced a 144hz 4k HDR gaming monitor with FALD backlight and 1000nit brightness. If you're talking about owning multiple 1080TI cards this is definitely the monitor for you...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11014/...cip3-and-gsync
Thanks for sharing that. Unfortunately that is too small. I want a 34" :-). I already have a 27" Gsync 1440P and the only thing that persuaded me to take my mind off of these big screen TVs was a 34" curved ultrawide screen. :-)...but that does look like an awesome monitor for that size even if its price may be a bit extreme :-).
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A lot of talk of respective values at 65 and 75 inch. I do agree but when you get to 88 things go the other way and compared to the 77 OLED and 100 ZD9 models the Q9 seems a relative bargain and just going on price, a compromise or 2 with the Samsung should probably be accepted. I am mystified how pricing per inch is calculated across all manufacturers - can't believe it has anything to do with actual production costs... anyhow, I digress.

Imagic, I know you are reviewing the 65 but it would be great to have your views on how the 88 is likely to perform - my simple logic tells me any flaws are likely to be exaggerated and the edge lighting magic achieved at 65 may well not hold up with so much more screen to fill. Would love to be corrected as this is the size I have my heart set on - for the right quality - and I am unlikely to ever see one on demo here in Europe. Even the top end MediaMarkt in Munich only has a 65.

Cheers
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A lot of talk of respective values at 65 and 75 inch. I do agree but when you get to 88 things go the other way and compared to the 77 OLED and 100 ZD9 models the Q9 seems a relative bargain and just going on price, a compromise or 2 with the Samsung should probably be accepted. I am mystified how pricing per inch is calculated across all manufacturers - can't believe it has anything to do with actual production costs... anyhow, I digress.

Imagic, I know you are reviewing the 65 but it would be great to have your views on how the 88 is likely to perform - my simple logic tells me any flaws are likely to be exaggerated and the edge lighting magic achieved at 65 may well not hold up with so much more screen to fill. Would love to be corrected as this is the size I have my heart set on - for the right quality - and I am unlikely to ever see one on demo here in Europe. Even the top end MediaMarkt in Munich only has a 65.

Cheers
Simon
When there is a production 88-inch Q9 to look at within a reasonable drive of my home, I'll go find it. OLED is very competitive at 65", but yeah 88" with the Q9's picture quality = quite a TV.

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post #410 of 418 Old 05-20-2017, 08:18 AM
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Why would you spend 9,250 on a 75" Q9 which has no FALD or Dolby Vision? You can spend less than that on the 75" Sony Z9 which has the best blacks for LCD and its motion and picture processing are the best of any brand. It has also Dolby Vision.
Even the 75" 940E would be much better than the Q9 and it's only half the price at 5 grand.
Yes but does the Z9 market itself as if it is a real emissive Qled? The marketing is the real difference between the the two.

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Because I went to two different stores this week with two completely different lighting situations and I came away unimpressed with the Z9, especially with normal DirectTV signals which are a significant portion of my viewing habit.
In-store set on vivid review. Ewwww.
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Yes but does the Z9 market itself as if it is a real emissive Qled? The marketing is the real difference between the the two.



In-store set on vivid review. Ewwww.
No only that, but its probably not set to Full Pixel, on the right mode with right settings, etc. You can't just glance at TV's and assume its better or worse. I would look into features for price performance. IMO 940e would be better than a Q9, which is really its competition.
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Spoiler!
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When there is a production 88-inch Q9 to look at within a reasonable drive of my home, I'll go find it. OLED is very competitive at 65", but yeah 88" with the Q9's picture quality = quite a TV.
88" Q9 would be amazing! I have to agree that Q9 is an awesome set! Minus banding issues.

However, I also understand that the bigger the panel the worse the uniformity and issues are and the more likely you will end up with banding and other issues.

Spoiler!
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Originally Posted by Keithian View Post
I went to a local store today to game on the Q9 playing Witcher 3. What I'll say is that I felt it looked fantastic. At a 12' distance which is the distance between my couch and the screen, all of these things that people mention are irrelevant to me. It just looked real good. However, despite that, what I do agree with, is that the benefit of this 75" TV isn't worth the current price. HOWEVER, neither are any of the other OLEDs I was interested in (LG W7/G7, A1E)...and again, I was far from impressed with the Z9 with everyday viewing of Direct TV in two different stores. So on that note, I've decided instead to buy a 34" Ultrawide Gsync 100hz monitor along with another 1080TI gaming computer for about 40% of the price of the Q9 and go back to gaming at my desk instead of my living room and leave the living room for TV Viewing only (and my Virtual Reality Headset) as the Elite is more than good enough even after all these years for regular TV and Netflix. I think I need to wait another year or two when the price makes more sense based on what content is readily available. I've come to the conclusion that buying a TV now at these OLED Prices and Q9 prices is for enthusiasts only, the wealthy, or early adopters. Now I need to post this in the OLED thread I created which will hopefully close that discussion.
That's probably the best decision you could have made for yourself since you're already happy enough watching tv and movies on your current tv.
You can get bigger OLED in 2 years for half the price it is now.
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Unhappy Vertical banding

Has anyone heard if the vertical banding can be fixed with a firmware update? Has Samsung responded about this problem? Will be picking my Q9 up on Thursday, but if this can't even be fixed I don't even want to open the box!
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Still no word yet on firmware update I have another replacement lined up but having them hold out because my panel besides banding seems to be perfect hardly any clouding 0 dead pixels
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Originally Posted by MATT J View Post
Has anyone heard if the vertical banding can be fixed with a firmware update? Has Samsung responded about this problem? Will be picking my Q9 up on Thursday, but if this can't even be fixed I don't even want to open the box!
The thread starter has reached out to them regarding this, and we are all looking forward to learning what they tell him.

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post #417 of 418 Old Today, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy1 View Post
The thread starter has reached out to them regarding this, and we are all looking forward to learning what they tell him.
Thank you. Fortunately I will have 45 days to return the Q9 to Best Buy, but I don't want the return to run out and get stuck with a $6000 TV that doesn't work properly. Makes me nervous even if by any chance I don't have the banding in mine, it will probably happen at some point and I will have to deal with best buy returning TVs or them trying to fix it. I guess in 20 days if I don't hear anything about a fix I will end up getting a LG OLED, that was my second choice. I would rather deal with a darker picture than lines through the picture.
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post #418 of 418 Old Today, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tw1st3dss View Post
Still no word yet on firmware update I have another replacement lined up but having them hold out because my panel besides banding seems to be perfect hardly any clouding 0 dead pixels
Thank you!! The Only Magnolia near me is 1 1/2 hours away from me, so if I was going through what you are I would have definitely bought another TV brand. If my Q9 has the same issues as yours I will definitely go with another TV brand right away, because that means that most, or all are going to have these issues. I hope that the issues get resolved, because the TV is amazing and I really don't want to let it go. Thank you for your response, and good luck on your next QLED.
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