1080P Panel Wars Ep. II: Westinghouse LVM-37w1 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 3176 Old 04-19-2005, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Specs from J&R web listing:

A 37" video monitor that features a super-bright, high contrast 1920x1080 LCD / VGA, Component & DVI Connections / Great for TV or Computer Use

Westinghouse 37" Video Monitor - This 37" video monitor features a super-bright, high contrast 1920x1080 progressive scan LCD panel. Which is enhanced with Faroudja's DCDi and TrueLife video processing, delivering state-of-the-art video performance. It also features VGA, component, and DVI connections. Making this a perfect choice for computers, TV, and game consoles!
2 Detachable 20 Watt Speakers
Native Resolution - 1920 x 1080
Aspect Ratio - 16:9
HDTV Ready - 480p, 720p, & 1080i
Brightness (cd/m2) - 550
Contrast Ratio - 600:1
Viewing Angle - (horizontal/vertical ) 176 Degrees
Response Time - 12ms
Display Colors - 16.7 Million True Colors
Inverse 3:2 Pulldown
50,000 Hour Lamp Life
Progressive Scan
Aspect Ratio Conversion
PIP
Freezing Picture
3D Video Processing
3D Comb Filter
Connectors - 1 Composite In / 1 S-Video In (adapter included) / 2 Component (YPbPr) (adapter included) / 2 DVI-HDCP / 1 RGB/VGA/PC In / 1 Audio In (mini) / 5 Audio In (Dual RCA)
Wall Mountable
Cabinet Color - Silver
Unit Dimensions (w/ stand) - 28.5" (h) x 36.6" (w) x 8.4" (d)
Unit Weight (w/ stand) - 56 lbs.
Unit Dimensions (w/o stand) - 23" (h) x 36.6" (w) x 4.5" (d)

Benq 37" 1080P at Crutchfield
Westinghouse 37" 1080P at J&R

Any other contenders in the ~$2000 1080p LCD panels wars?
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post #2 of 3176 Old 04-19-2005, 10:38 AM
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Here's a pic but not truly a review at CNET

http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5619296-1.html

I wasn't impressed with the previous versions but last week I saw the new 32" version at BB and it had a great PQ with fine detailed edges that were better than the new Samsung version next to it. I know that can depend on tweaking but the 32" looks quite good and the price was great.

Yes, it looks like pre-orders are being taken at J&R and I would expect this should become available soon at BB as they appear to be one of their primary distribution channels. Would be nice to see how it does 1080P on Blu-Ray when their available. Looks like it good be a good deal especially for a bedroom Panel as I've had a hard time finding a fit into a Armoire but it looks like this will fit a 37" where I had a 31" CRT.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #3 of 3176 Old 04-19-2005, 10:49 AM
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This panel is probably still months away from the market. The last update I saw was that the Chi Mei 37-inch (the panel that Westinghouse hopes to use) was due in Q3.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #4 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 12:17 AM
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It may be a few months before any of the cheaper 1080p panels come out, but whose complaining? 1 year ago, let alone 6 months ago, who would have thought we could get a 37' LCD TV with 1080p resolution for around $2000.00? Im sure by late summer were going to have many choices for a decent 1080p TV. A few months to wait is worth the extra resolution....

I see rainbows everywhere...
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post #5 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by rogo
This panel is probably still months away from the market. The last update I saw was that the Chi Mei 37-inch (the panel that Westinghouse hopes to use) was due in Q3.

Will the BenQ 37" 1080p LCD use these same Chi Mei panels?
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post #6 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by LCDFan
It may be a few months before any of the cheaper 1080p panels come out, but whose complaining? 1 year ago, let alone 6 months ago, who would have thought we could get a 37' LCD TV with 1080p resolution for around $2000.00? Im sure by late summer were going to have many choices for a decent 1080p TV. A few months to wait is worth the extra resolution....

Agreed on all points. Heck, LOTS of people will buy 27"-37" panels *just* for computer use! No one would have dreamed last year that such large sizes and resolutions would be available so soon, let alone complete with a NTSC cable tuner and all the inputs these have. Thousands of people would gladly buy these if they only had an RGB and DVI port, just as a computer monitor. Looks like the promise of "convergence" is finally happening...
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post #7 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 06:52 AM
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With the price of 17in. and 19 in. LCD computer monitors dropping, I would think the larger format TV's will follow as well.

I really don't understand the price differential, to be quite honest. A 17 in. LCD monitor now sells fgor under $300 and it packs more LCD pixels into a much smaller space than most larger ones. Wouldn't the smaller ones be more costly to manufacture than the larger ones? The electronics should only add a few hundred bucks.. so, where's the difference going? hmmm.. profit!

Perhaps I don't understand the technichal aspects of manufacturing larger size LCD's.. anyone have any insight?

Thanks,

Jerry
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post #8 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 07:41 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ChiTown_Jerry
With the price of 17in. and 19 in. LCD computer monitors dropping, I would think the larger format TV's will follow as well.

I really don't understand the price differential, to be quite honest. A 17 in. LCD monitor now sells fgor under $300 and it packs more LCD pixels into a much smaller space than most larger ones. Wouldn't the smaller ones be more costly to manufacture than the larger ones? The electronics should only add a few hundred bucks.. so, where's the difference going? hmmm.. profit!

Perhaps I don't understand the technichal aspects of manufacturing larger size LCD's.. anyone have any insight?

Thanks,

Jerry

First there is an isissue of assembly line. Small panels had been around for long time and costs setting it up are amortized. The large panels are new and need new assembly lines which cost tons of money to set up plus the new equipment capable of handling it. Then you have cost of materials, for example you could probably make four 17" panels from one 37". You are right, once you make the panel, electronics are not very expensive and in many cases the same electronics are used for different size panels. As far as size of the pixel is concerned, once you have proper equipment and everything is set up it doesn't really matter except maybe for dead pixels, the more pixels the bigger chance some may not work.
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post #9 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by pete4
First there is an isissue of assembly line. Small panels had been around for long time and costs setting it up are amortized. The large panels are new and need new assembly lines which cost tons of money to set up plus the new equipment capable of handling it. Then you have cost of materials, for example you could probably make four 17" panels from one 37". You are right, once you make the panel, electronics are not very expensive and in many cases the same electronics are used for different size panels. As far as size of the pixel is concerned, once you have proper equipment and everything is set up it doesn't really matter except maybe for dead pixels, the more pixels the bigger chance some may not work.

That's the best explanation I've heard for the price discrepancy between typical PC 17" or higher LCD panels and LCD TV's of equivalent resolution and response rate.

Using any reasonable scaling metric like screen surface area, absolute resolution, and/or weight, a 32" 1360x768 LCD panel ought to street for around $800, even accounting for added NTSC tuner(s) and I/O ports. Recovering new assembly line equipment and installation costs as quickly as possible appears to be the most likely reason for the pricing of 37" and larger panels relative to their smaller PC counterparts.
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post #10 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 10:16 AM
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Sounds reasonable..

Which perhaps is why some of these newer entrants into the market can produce panels cheaper.. they are simply using other companies' technologies and farming out production to a company that is already set up utilizing surplus manufacturing capacity.

Thanks!
Jerry
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post #11 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 11:05 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Rgb
Will the BenQ 37" 1080p LCD use these same Chi Mei panels?

No, the BenQ uses panels from AU Optronics.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #12 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by rogo
No, the BenQ uses panels from AU Optronics.

Thanks, rogo.

Now, all we need to know is what panel tech the AU Optronics and Chi Mei panels are, i.e. Tn-film, PVA/MVA, or S-IPS?
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post #13 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 02:00 PM
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You might get answers with some Google searches. Chi Mei is often referred to as CMO, AU Optronics often called AUO.

Seek and ye might find.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #14 of 3176 Old 04-20-2005, 06:03 PM
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This is what AUO says about their 37"

Size 37"
Model T370HW01
Aspect Ratio 16 : 9
Resolution (pixel) HDTV (1920 x 1080)
Active Area (mm) 819.36 x 460.89
Pixel Pitch (mm) 0.427
Mode Premium MVA
Number of Colors 16.7M (8 bit)
Color Saturation (NTSC %) 72 (EBU=100%)
View Angle (H/V) 170 / 170
Brightness (cd/m²) 550
Contrast Ratio 800 : 1
Response Time (ms) (at 25°C) 8 (gray to gray)
Power Consumption (W) 150
Interface 2ch LVDS
Supply Voltage (V) 12
Light Source 20 CCFL
Outline Dimensions (mm) 894.8 x 527.4 x 50.7
Weight (g) 9,500
Production Q1
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post #15 of 3176 Old 04-21-2005, 10:17 AM
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Circuit City has a Polaroid 37" LCD TV 1920x1080 listed on their website avaible NOW. Unless something is wrong with their web site, it lists it as in stock for all their stores in the Boston area. By they way, the price is below $2000 (even the MSRP).

Interestingly, this model is not shown on the Polaroid home page.
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post #16 of 3176 Old 04-21-2005, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by mbjorkman
Circuit City has a Polaroid 37" LCD TV 1920x1080 listed on their website avaible NOW. Unless something is wrong with their web site, it lists it as in stock for all their stores in the Boston area. By they way, the price is below $2000 (even the MSRP).

Interestingly, this model is not shown on the Polaroid home page.

That makes it 1080p Panel Wars Episode III .

The price listed on the site is a "new low" for 37" 1080p already! Crimony, 37" 1080p aren't in the hands of buyers yet, and they're fighting over prices!?
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post #17 of 3176 Old 04-21-2005, 11:26 AM
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Here is the Operating manual

The manual shows only 1366x768 res and response time 16ms. It is possible that model PCB FLM3701 is newer than FLM3701 (manual).

USG
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post #18 of 3176 Old 04-21-2005, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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From
http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.p...=60&items_id=8

The 37" AUO 1080p panel is an MVA technology LCD.

Model T370HW01

Aspect Ratio
16 : 9

Resolution (pixel)
HDTV (1920 x 1080)

Active Area (mm)
819.36 x 460.89

Pixel Pitch (mm)
0.427

Mode
Premium MVA

Number of Colors
16.7M (8 bit)

Color Saturation (NTSC %)
72 (EBU=100%)

View Angle (H/V)
170 / 170

Brightness (cd/m²)
550

Contrast Ratio
800 : 1

Response Time (ms) (at 25°C)
8 (gray to gray)

Power Consumption (W)
150

Interface
2ch LVDS

Supply Voltage (V)
12

Light Source
20 CCFL

Outline Dimensions (mm)
894.8 x 527.4 x 50.7

Weight (g)
9,500

Production
Q1
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post #19 of 3176 Old 04-21-2005, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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From
http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/pr...20040804203848

The CMO 1080p 37" panel is also MVA

Model V370H1

Technology
Super MVA

Resolution
1920x1080

Pixel Pitch(mm)
0.4275x0.4275

Active Area(mm)
820.8x461.7

Outline(mm)
884.8x525.9x52.24

Luminance(nits)
550

View Angle (U/D/R/L)
88/88/88/88 (CR>20)

Contrast Ratio
> 600:1

Support Color
8bit, 16.7M

Color Saturation (NTSC)
75%

Response Time(ms)
12(Gray to Gray)

Weight (g)
9150

Power Consumption(W)
145

# of Lamps
CCFLx20

Electrical Interface
2-ch LVDS
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post #20 of 3176 Old 04-21-2005, 11:50 AM
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Well it is available in Pamona and Victorville, but not in LA. That makes me surmise it is 1366x768. No offense to those in the inland empire.
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post #21 of 3176 Old 04-21-2005, 12:41 PM
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It does not appear the Polaroid is actually 1920 x 1080.

The specs match neither of the two 1080p panels detailed above, the manual says it ain't, the availability says it ain't, etc.

I may try to see it later today if I can.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #22 of 3176 Old 04-21-2005, 08:07 PM
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Stopped by CC today, they do not have this model on display, so I asked them to pull the box and bring it to the showroom.

Resolution of 1366x768 is clearly stated on the box.

Ric
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post #23 of 3176 Old 04-22-2005, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by rmommer
Stopped by CC today, they do not have this model on display, so I asked them to pull the box and bring it to the showroom.

Resolution of 1366x768 is clearly stated on the box.

Ric

The hunt for a third retail 1080p 37" LCD panel continues...
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post #24 of 3176 Old 04-22-2005, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Based on the AUO/CMO data for their respective 1080p 37" panels, it looks like the BenQ might be preferable over the Westinghouse, as the BenQ's AUO panel is faster at 8ms and higher contrast than the CMO panel the Westinghouse 37" 1080p purportedly will use...
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post #25 of 3176 Old 04-22-2005, 07:55 AM
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How come it's taking so long for 37 inch 1080P panels to get to the marketplace? Samsung and Sharp have had 46 and 45 inch 1080P panels for sale for 6 months now.
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post #26 of 3176 Old 04-22-2005, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by chavel
How come it's taking so long for 37 inch 1080P panels to get to the marketplace? Samsung and Sharp have had 46 and 45 inch 1080P panels for sale for 6 months now.

...But at premium prices. Patience, young apprentice .

The reasons the Westinghouse and BenQ 37" 1080p panels are causing such a stir are the new low price points to play in the 1080p sandbox.

Heck, for these prices, buy four 37" 1080p panels, tile them on a wall, and have a 4K display for about $8000 .
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post #27 of 3176 Old 04-22-2005, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rgb
Heck, for these prices, buy four 37" 1080p panels, tile them on a wall, and have a 4K display for about $8000 .

And have 4 inches of bezel between each dispay...
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post #28 of 3176 Old 04-22-2005, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rgb
Based on the AUO/CMO data for their respective 1080p 37" panels, it looks like the BenQ might be preferable over the Westinghouse, as the BenQ's AUO panel is faster at 8ms and higher contrast than the CMO panel the Westinghouse 37" 1080p purportedly will use...

Not to mention that the BenQ will be available months sooner.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #29 of 3176 Old 04-23-2005, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by tommylotto
And have 4 inches of bezel between each dispay...

5 home theater geek point demerits for tommylotto!

It is *assumed* that anyone reading this forum would *know* how to remove the bezels and use the guts to make a tiled display .
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post #30 of 3176 Old 04-24-2005, 06:03 AM
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The polaroid at circuit city is item no FLM-3701. It looks like it is available now in Baltimore. How do you figure out if it is CMO or AUO ?

CG
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