Sharp LC-45 OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD Part 2: FAQ/ Clayface issue... - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1318 Old 08-27-2005, 08:49 PM
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sharpmibo, does the 1080p look really awesome? I was thinking of maybe replacing this with that.. but I'm on the fence. We'll see how good the picture looks when I get the firmware update. I love the side-mounted speakers. I doubt it, but I wonder if the GX6U has the mounts on the side for the GD4U's speakers? That would awesome, I'd order a new set of GD4U speakers and use those instead! If you could take a look on the back of your screen and see if it looks like there's speaker mounts, let me know! Someone here said they have their own HDTV AV unit hooked up to the GX6U and it's much better then Sharp's - I like the idea of having that option even though the Sharp AV unit seems great besides the 1080p problem..

ftropea, I don't have a digital camera - I thought about it when I took the back cover off but I had no way to take the pictures. I can borrow one if I decide to open it up again.

The back cover comes off pretty easily. Take the speakers off, and the speaker wire covers on the bottom pop off easily. There's a dozen or so screws around the perimeter of the screen to pull out, and there's probably about 10 more screws around the back of the TV in various places. Once you get them all out, you can just lift the back plastic right up. Inside, there's a plastic/copper sheeth covering much of the electronics that comes up easily by pulling out about 8 screws. You'll be able to see most of the electronics when that's off. I didn't take apart the metal covering over the left circuitry because just by looking at the electronics I and not seeing anything that remotely resembled a DVI connector I decided there was nothing I could do.

I have a lot of experience taking things like this apart and putting them back together, and I wouldn't recommend doing so unless you felt completely comfortable doing it. While there were no void stickers or anything that would indicate that I had done so, if I broke something (and there's a lot of little wires and things that would break pretty easily) there's the possibilty that Sharp wouldn't want to replace something that was evidently broken by hand.

I can see a verticle bar on my screen as well, but you can only see it when the screen is blank and I look at an extreme angle off to the side. Like almost all large form-factor LCD's, these types of things can happen and I don't think it's a big enough deal for me to return it. I have a 23" HP LCD monitor for my PC that shows a few different spots where the black level is not uniform but otherwise the screen is fine.

Luidog, although the contrast ratio of 800:1 is less then some of the plasma screens out on the market, I'd say go look at one and see for yourself. The screen is VERY bright - brighter then any plasma I've seen. The black level is not as dark as a Plasma in most cases however (as is the case with any LCD screen) and so the contrast ratio numbers are lowered in the dark end. Also, while looking at the contrast ratio of any screen, make sure you're reading the actual ratio and not one that is created by some sort of software manipulation - There's a hitachi (or was it samsung?) screen that claimed a really high ratio because it uses a technique to darken the overall picture when there's a dark scene, and brighten the whole screen when there's a bright scene. You want real numbers, not a "virtual contrast" number.

That being said, the black levels on this screen are quite acceptable and like I said, it's very bright. You have to darken the screen when the room is dark because it's almost blinding. Fortunately, sharp has a special feature to do this for you with a light sensor. I wish it was configurable, but it does seem to work well.
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post #182 of 1318 Old 08-27-2005, 10:06 PM
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ps - When you remove the speaker from the GX6U, can you lower the display? My LC-GD4U sits maybe 2.5 inches from the bottom of the screen's bezel to the foot of the base and it looks nice, but since the GD/GX6U's have the bottom speaker, it seems like the display would sit a lot higher on the base. Seems like it would be good if the unit could be lowered when the speaker is removed so it doesn't look like it's sitting on a tall beam? If anyone knows, please let me know! The bottom speaker issue is the only reason I haven't traded my GD4U for a GX6U yet =)
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post #183 of 1318 Old 08-28-2005, 07:42 PM
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Guys, I'm truly sorry because I know this is a basic question to all you regulars. But I have read through nearly all of the posts in this thread (parts 1 and 2) and it has resulted in some confusion over the 1080p issue. I understand that you must have the GX6U model to view 1080p computer inputs. However, I am not as concerned about 1080p for computer inputs as I am for tv. So:

1) Can any of the three models display 1080p from the television input without any workaround? (I understand there is no 1080p programming now or in the near future but I want to buy one TV that will last for at least 5 years or more and be able to display the highest quality when it is available)

1a) If no, can the GX6U model display 1080p television inputs through the work around, or is it only for computer inputs?

2) Can any of the three models display 1080p from a source such as Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, PS3, or XBOX 360?

2a) If no, can the GX6U model display 1080p from the sources listed in (2) through the work around?

3) Will true 1080p LCDs of comparable size be coming to the market in the next six months and, if so, what are your best guesses on the price point for these models?

Thank you all for your advice!

~Scott
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post #184 of 1318 Old 08-28-2005, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sholmes View Post

I understand that you must have the GX6U model to view 1080p computer inputs. However, I am not as concerned about 1080p for computer inputs as I am for tv.

There's really no difference here - both the computer and most High-Def sources that would support 1080p are going to use DVI or HDMI. HDMI is "backward compatible" with DVI - usually (but not always) if something sends or recieves HDMI you can convert it to DVI with a simple cable. Of course, HDMI also can carry sound, which DVI does not, so you lose the sound if you go to DVI.

The DVI port on the AVC of the GX and the back of the TV with the GD's is specifically for Computer input it seems, as it doesn't support normal HDTV resolutions including 1080i. You have to use the HDMI port for computer displaying at 1080i. Not sure why Sharp did this..

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Originally Posted by sholmes View Post

1) Can any of the three models display 1080p from the television input without any workaround? (I understand there is no 1080p programming now or in the near future but I want to buy one TV that will last for at least 5 years or more and be able to display the highest quality when it is available)

Someone said in one of the Sharp threads that the LC-45GD units were capable of displaying true 1080p via an ATSC broadcast. But this is only good for over-the-air stuff and most of us would be using some type of cable or satellite reciever so this doesn't really matter. Other then that, no, none of the three TV's will accept *any* 1080p from any of it's inputs.

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Originally Posted by sholmes View Post

1a) If no, can the GX6U model display 1080p television inputs through the work around, or is it only for computer inputs?

If your source is compatible with DVI, you should be able to display 1080p by connecting the device directly to the display instead of the AVC. Some people use the Gefen DVI switch boxes.

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Originally Posted by sholmes View Post

2) Can any of the three models display 1080p from a source such as Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, PS3, or XBOX 360?

No, because of reasons mentioned above. You'd only be able to do it by connecting the DVI cable directly from the TV to the source instead of going through the Sharp box on the GX.

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Originally Posted by sholmes View Post

2a) If no, can the GX6U model display 1080p from the sources listed in (2) through the work around?

I would imagine so, as long as they are compatible with DVI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sholmes View Post

3) Will true 1080p LCDs of comparable size be coming to the market in the next six months and, if so, what are your best guesses on the price point for these models?

From what I can tell, maybe. There's a few LG.Phillips LCD TV's hitting the market soon that might be able to do this - they are 1080p panels but they could have the same input limitations as the Sharps. We don't know. But I do know that the 55" LG.Phillips panel will cost over $10,000.

I am perhaps going to be trading in my GD4U with a GX6U, and I've been looking into the DVDO VP30. It seems as though this device may be able to be a complete replacement for the Sharp AVC, although I'm still not sure if it will be able to pass-through a 1080p signal (I know it won't process it, but it might be able to pass it through.) But it can output at 1080p to the panel after processing. There's not many scalers that can process 1080p inputs right now due to the expensive processing costs associated with that much data.

Honestly, 1080i looks awesome on this TV for anything besides PC input, and even then it looks pretty good. On a 45" screen the added detail displayed by progressive scan 1080p versus 1080i would be very minimal. I've played Counter Strike and Doom 3 in 1080i on this thing and they both look really good.

If I didn't want the display to double as a huge PC monitor, I wouldn't care about it, especially considering that the VAST majority of TV's sold today are not 1080 at all. 1080p is a big marketing hype at the moment, and you're still way ahead of the game if you have a true 1080i display right now.
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post #185 of 1318 Old 08-28-2005, 09:40 PM
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The LC-45GX6U is the only model of Sharp's current line-up of consumer LCD panels that can accept a native 1080p input. It can do so when you bypass the AVC box and go direct into the panel's DVI port. The other two 45" models in their current consumer line-up (LC-45GD6U and LC-45GD4U) do not have this capability because there is no way to bypass their scalers, which are integrated. Basically, 1080p is 1080p. It doesn't matter too much what the source is: a home theater PC, an external scaler like the iScan VP30, a high-definition DVD player or PS3, or what have you. Sharp just released a commercial model (PN-455, MSRP $9,595) that reportedly can accept 1080p, but I don't know of any other large-screen (45" or above) LCD televisions coming out soon that will have this capability. I know that Sharp's new 45" models will not accept 1080p. If you haven't already locked up an LC-45GX6U, it might all be moot at this point. They're getting increasingly hard to find.
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post #186 of 1318 Old 08-28-2005, 09:53 PM
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If you're willing to order from the Internet, the GX6U appears to be very easy to find, and in most cases seems less expensive then the GD units. Which is good, because you'll be paying around $250 to get the thing shipped.
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post #187 of 1318 Old 08-28-2005, 10:59 PM
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cbreaker and RU Geekman:

Thank you both for your responses. They were very helpful. I'm learning this stuff as I go and have some follow up questions for you:

1) Is there any advantage to having an external AVC unit (as on the GX6U) other than the "work around" for 1080p inputs?

1a) Are there any negative consequences to by-passing the AVC? (Basically, what is its general purpose?)

2) If you're using a cablecard, there is no way to get 1080p programs, correct?

3) When you use a DVI hook up, which does not support audio, you can still run the audio through other connections, correct?

4) What is the maximum resolution/image quality I can expect from hooking up a PS3/Blu-Ray to the GD4U, assuming the game/Disc could display in 1080p?

5) Do I have to have a Gefen box (or something similar) to hook up a computer (I have an Apple Powerbook) or does the Gefen just save you from having to plug your computer into the back of the tv every time you want to use the Sharp as a display?

6) cbreaker: Why are you considering buying the DVDO VP30 if you are thinking of trading for the GX6U? Doesn't the external AVC on the GX6U do what you would be buying the DVDO VP30 for? (Please excuse me if they are completely different products, but, as I said, I'm learning as I go.)

7) Where are the best places to buy the GX6Us and what price should I be looking to spend? If I must buy online, what should I do to make sure it is a safe purchase (vendor reputation, service plans, etc.)? How and where did you guys buy your sets? (I understand there are forum rules on giving prices and such, so please email or pm if necessary.)

Thank you again, guys. You've been most helpful.
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post #188 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 12:14 AM
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To answer your questions the best I can:

1) The seperate box is sort of a preference thing, besides the 1080p thing. The GX is thinner because the electronics are seperate, and lighter too. There's less cable mess if you're mounting the TV on a wall, because you only have to run a single cable to the TV. (I think there's only the single cable, but I haven't seen the GX up close.) I don't really mind either way.

1a) The AVC controls the entire TV, including all remote control functions, tuning, color correction, etc. At least, I'm pretty sure. If you don't use it, you basically have a computer monitor with zero controls. If you use a replacement box like the DVDO VP30, I think you'd gain most of that functionality back. But I don't own the GX and I can only go on what I've learned here and other internet places.

2) I don't know about the CableCard functionality.

3) I don't know. Curious about this myself. I'm guessing some people might use an external audio player.

4) With the GD4U you can only get 1080i. So you could expect very high quality output in interlaced mode. Remember, the display is LCD, so there is really no interlaced mode - the AVC converts it to progressive mode for display. In my experience it does a pretty good job of this (I'm typing this using the GD4U in 1080i) and you don't see any bouncing or anything like a CRT in interlaced mode. You do see jitter when there's movement, but I can only notice it when doing things in Windows, and barely when doing anything else.

5) I'm pretty sure it's just so you don't have to keep replugging the DVI connector. There's a lot of little pins and they can get bent over if you plug it in just a little off, so it really saves a lot of headache. I have a Gefen 2 port switchbox and it seems to be a solid little unit.

6) If the VP30 can take a 1080p signal and pass-through, I'd probably use it to directly replace the Sharp AVC if possible. It will have better quality scaling for standard definition video, and better controls and all around a very nice unit. But if it didn't take 1080p and pass it through, you're right, it would basically do the same thing as the Sharp AVC because I'd still have to use the Gefen for the computer. But who knows, even if I keep the GD4U I might get one anyways because they thing looks really impressive and everyone seems to have great things to say about the DVDo units.

7) I really can't help you much here. The prices I've seen for the GX seem to be anywhere from $4000 - $4500. I've never had a bad experience buying online, and it's mostly because I'm just cautious. Call them first, see if you can get in touch with them easily. Talk to them about the TV, see what they say. If you can't get them on the phone, don't buy from them. For me, it seems like there's a few places in NYC that sell the thing (I live in Rhode Island) so if worse came to worse, I could drive there. When buying expensive and/or bulky items, I try to buy as local as possible just in case.
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post #189 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 05:43 AM
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sholmes,

Excellent questions. I am also a newbie trying to figure out which 45" LCD to buy (I prefer Sharps).

Correct me if I am wrong but don't the broadcasters only broadcast in 720p(fox,abc,espn) or 1080i(cbs,nbc).

So if you don't want to hook up a PC why would you want or need 1080p??

Do the Cable operators (specifically comcast) broadcast the exact broadcast or will they broadcast everything in 720p (and convert CBS and NBC) or 1080i (and convert fox, abc, espn)?

Thanks for all your help.
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post #190 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 06:35 AM
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Eventually, I'd imagine that most broadcasters in HD will do so in 1080p, and everyone with something lower will be able to downscale that at the best possibly quality. It makes sense, really.

I am of the opinion that the reason 1080i even really exists is because when the standard was initially drafted, they figured we'd be using HDTV really soon, and to produce a 1080p television set would be outrageously expensive, not to mention the recording gear. Well, HDTV didn't take off, but now that it's *finally* starting to happen, the technology is already advanced enough to produce 1080p displays. Within another year or two, I think we'll see a high percentage of displays touting 1080p. It's the highest resolution per the standard.

But you're right, there's really no big need for 1080p right now unless you want a 45" computer monitor (which I do!) 1080i still delivers an excellent picture, especially on an LCD or Plasma display where the signal is deinterlaced. But, 1080p *is* nicer.

As far as HDTV from Cable, I have Cox cable so I can't comment on Comcast. (You comcast guys get 3x the number of HD channels, btw.) On my box, you set it to whatever resolution you want, so I set mine to 1080i, and all HD broadcast is 1080i. I don't know what channels the box is scaling, but they all look pretty darned good.
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post #191 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 10:53 AM
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Ok, thank you again cbreaker. As you might have expected, I have some follow up questions:

1) What is the maximum resolution possible on the GD4U for computers? My powerbook does 1280x854, how would that look at 45 inches?

2) When was your GD4U produced and does it suffer from any defects (vertical bar, clayface, etc.)?

3) What is your opinion on the black levels?

Feel free to tell me that you no longer want to answer my questions. But, until then, I'm going to use you as my resource for buying one of these sets.
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post #192 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbreaker View Post

Eventually, I'd imagine that most broadcasters in HD will do so in 1080p, and everyone with something lower will be able to downscale that at the best possibly quality. It makes sense, really.

1080p bandwidth requirements won't fit inside of 6Mhz, so it is unlikely any broadcaster will spend the money (for a 2nd 6Mhz) just to send us 1080p. For broadcast, 720p and 1080i is the best you will see for a long time. For 1080p content you can look at HD or BR DVD which will likely be 1080/24p which will then be converted to 1080/60p by the player or display. Other than that, you are looking at gaming consoles and HTPCs for 1080p content.
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post #193 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 11:20 AM
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I too have noticed block pixels and blur for hair for the sharp 45" my guess its 720p broadcast as 720p do not have the pixels to help display full content but not when its shown 480i
To the person who wrote previously did you hook it up by cables or HDMI?
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post #194 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

1080p bandwidth requirements won't fit inside of 6Mhz, so it is unlikely any broadcaster will spend the money (for a 2nd 6Mhz) just to send us 1080p.

Maybe not, but while there's only a small handful of these companies broadcasting OTA at all versus what's on Cable TV, I don't see this as a big limitation. It would be fairly painless (besides the more capable end-user equipment) for a cable company to start sending down 1080p through the wire since coax provides practically unlimited bandwidth for them.

Channels like SciFi, TNT, Spike, etc - all the HBO/Max/Sho/etc, the list goes on. All that could be pushed at 1080p via cable if they wanted to.
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post #195 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 02:21 PM
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Just bought the DVDO iScan VP30.....should ship out in September. A nice little birthday present for myself.

I am curious if any of the beta testers can comment on how 1080p looks through the scaler when 'mainlined' into the panel.

I guess you have to use a HDMI ---> DVI breakout into the panel but will loose the audio output, therefore, from the DVDO.

Is there a way to separate out the HDMI audio from a breakout cable that can be routed back into a reciever ?

I have a feeling there is going to be a problem with audio-video mismatch, however. I hear that some recievers can adjust the delay on the audio in miliseconds to match the video.

It's great being on the bleeding edge.....but also challenging.

Thanks.

Sawyer
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post #196 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawyer View Post

Is there a way to separate out the HDMI audio from a breakout cable that can be routed back into a reciever ?

I have a feeling there is going to be a problem with audio-video mismatch, however. I hear that some recievers can adjust the delay on the audio in miliseconds to match the video.

As far as I have seen from the VP30, it will take any audio input for any video input - meaning, there's say two Coax and two Optical audio inputs - HDMI has audio but if you use a DVI cable, you don't get the audio. With the VP30 you can route any of the audio inputs to any of the video inputs, which is definately a killer app. On the outbound side, I believe the VP30 will send audio out which one of the outputs you hook up to, besides the HDMI port. So you could connect a DVI cable to the HDMI, and an optical cable to the audio out, even if your audio came in on one of the HDMI ports. Additionally, the VP30 does audio offset correction to help with lip sync affects if I'm not mistaken.

It's really a great looking product.
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post #197 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 05:45 PM
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Most of you use your computer with the Aquos,and you seem to be technologically savy.

I'm not very swift with this stuff, I just read as much as I can. How's the PQ if you just plug it into the direct tv hd-dvr box via HDMI or component? I want something simple.
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post #198 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 06:06 PM
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As long as you don't have the "clayface" issue as mentioned earlier and found on some GD models (and can be apparently fixed with a simple software update to the TV which I should get on Thursday) the picture quality is very good, I've found. Particularly on HD content because you can view a full 1080i picture. NESN looks *awesome.* They use some high quality gear and don't kick up the compression as much as some others.

In order for the TV to view "standard definition" television with a picture bigger then a small box in the center of the screen, it must scale the image to fit the entire screen. I've found that she Sharp TV without any special equipment does a decent job at this. It's certianly as good as a lot of the other HDTV's I've looked at. If I send it a very clear SD signal (from a Digital Cable channel, for example) it looks pretty good. There's the rather expensive add-on HDTV scalers you can get such as the DVDO HD+ or their new VP30 that do a much better job at all this, but with that kind of technology built into the TV you could easily expect to add $1500 to the price.

Keep in mind, however, that because this TV has to scale the image so much, and because the display is capable of a lot of detail, you'll see a lot of noise you might not have noticed on your old tube TV. This will happen with any plasma or LCD display, but even more so on these LCD's because of the high resolution and LCD's inherrent "sharpness." You will probably notice the quality of the picture more if you're using a DVR box because it will add compression artifacts. Time to set that Tivo to "high detail" and sacrifice some of the hours =)

It's all in what you are willing to put up with. I'd go to a store that sells any of the Sharp LC-45's and ask them to display an SD picture for you. Most people are surprised on how bad SD actually looks, and how much better HDTV actually is, when you view it on a high resolution display. Some of the Plasma TV's do a better job with SD because they're generally lower resolution (720p or slightly higher) and don't have to scale as many pixels. And Plasma tends to give you that "Tube TV Look" that we're all so familiar with. I love LCD, but for TV it's all about personal preference.

Everything has a trade-off - there's no perfect TVs out there - yet.
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post #199 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbreaker View Post

It would be fairly painless (besides the more capable end-user equipment) for a cable company to start sending down 1080p through the wire since coax provides practically unlimited bandwidth for them.

Channels like SciFi, TNT, Spike, etc - all the HBO/Max/Sho/etc, the list goes on. All that could be pushed at 1080p via cable if they wanted to.

The same issue is there for cable TV. If you think they have unlimited bandwidth, you are lucky and your cable company is very proactive in upgrading their systems.

In many areas, they are still a mix of 550, 750, and 860Mhz systems that haven't been fully upgraded. 550Mhz systems didn't even have enough bandwidth to broadcast all the current HD channels, let alone additional ones or 1080p ones. Cable companies aren't focused on PQ. Even with 860Mhz systems, most of the additional bandwidth is being used to support VOD (and cable modem) which in their minds are killer apps.

If you want a 1080p display, get it because of HTPC, HD/BR DVD, gaming system, or because you feel 1080i looks better on 1080p display. I wouldn't get one because you are waiting for 1080p by cable or OTA as you'll be waiting a long time.
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post #200 of 1318 Old 08-29-2005, 06:48 PM
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I agree that broadcast 1080p shouldn't be a big factor at all. I do feel that if you are buying a new HDTV for the long haul you'd like it to be as versitile as possible though. 1080p provides maximum versatility, and I think future TV - maybe 5 or 6 years from now even, might be moving towards 1080p. Especially if a lot of TV's support it by then.

When I think about the bandwidth available to cable operators, however, I don't think of it as being limited at all. Take Comcast, for example, with it's 25+ HD channels, and 500 other channels. All over the same cable, and the first 70 being analog. Then you have cable modems (which with DOCSIS 3 will provide up to 200Mbit downstream/100Mbit upstream per channel) and phone service, + on demand. The cable company could easily add another bunch of HD Channels without even thinking about it. That's a lot of stuff on one cable. If you look at the infrastructure of most developed CATV systems these days, you'll also notice that a lot of the runs are fiber, with transciever stations along the way sort of like the CO's for the phone lines. Sure, some systems are bound to be outdated, and they probably wouldn't have 1080p for a long time.

Then you have Verizon's new "FIOS" service. They're deploying it in my state in a few cities now, and should begin wide deployments over the next few years. (I hope.) It's a fiber optic cable, run to every house. Initial offerings are only Internet access, at a hefty 15Mbit downstream for the starter package and 30Mbits available in the premium package. The fiber has enough bandwidth available past that to supply full HDTV video and voice, too.

The technology is already here to allow the cable TV operators to supply just a single channel to you - whatever you're watching. Moving forward, they won't need to send you all the channels at once over the cable and let your box decide which ones to descramble for you. Heck, they could do it over IP if they wanted to.

Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead, but I had my last TV for 8 years and I plan to have this one as long too. That is, if it doesn't fall off the wall first.
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post #201 of 1318 Old 08-30-2005, 10:31 AM
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While I'm in agreement with the responses to cbreaker's questions about 1080p, I did have one small issue with:

sfhub> 1080p bandwidth requirements won't fit inside of 6Mhz,...

This is, of course, only true if the compression ratio is the same as for 1080i. Nothing would prevent a more aggressive compression ratio adjusting this compression-ratio/resolution trade-off. Heck, that's what DirecTv is getting away with mercilessly...
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post #202 of 1318 Old 08-30-2005, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
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Maybe not, but while there's only a small handful of these companies broadcasting OTA at all versus what's on Cable TV, I don't see this as a big limitation. It would be fairly painless (besides the more capable end-user equipment) for a cable company to start sending down 1080p through the wire since coax provides practically unlimited bandwidth for them.

Channels like SciFi, TNT, Spike, etc - all the HBO/Max/Sho/etc, the list goes on. All that could be pushed at 1080p via cable if they wanted to.

PC, or "other than MSO", content excluded from discussion below.

1080p is twice the bandwidth of 1080i or 720p. I doubt the cable MSO will reduce their HD bandwidth by half for the better 1080p. Sat providers are starved for bandwidth, and the barrier to increasing their pipes is huge (new birds.) So the likelihood of 1080p from sat providers is very small (until AVC takes hold...read on...) Then...is the perceived improvement from 720p or 1080i to 1080p "2x"? Will you pay "2x" for 1080p vs 1080i broadcast content?

Worth investigating is the effects of MPEG2 compression on HD formats. ATSC HD streams are currently speced at 19.4 Mbit/sec MPEG2. Compressing 1080i is not the same as compressing 1080p. It's likely that 1080i will yield a better MPEG2 compression result that 1080p. The set-top box also must have enough horse power to decode 1080p. Your current HD set-top box may not even be able to decode 1080p real time.

On the horizon are Advanced Video Codecs (AVC), like H.264, VC1, etc. That will yield better quality at similar or lower bitrates than MPEG2.

For now, however, cable (and sat) MSO's are not switching to AVCs. For one, AVCs are still fluid specs, and then there's the cost of migrating large customer bases from MPEG2. So until AVC is in use, 1080p is out of the question. Even then, Sat providers are in a bandwidth bind until they update their birds and CPE. Cable does have the advantage with respect to bandwidth, however, it's hardly "unlimited."

IMHO, you'll see AVC on sat first, cable will eventually follow, but slowly.

So, until then, enjoy the HD broadcasts in 1080i, or 720p. And, enjoy your PC content in 1080p.

-anders.

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post #203 of 1318 Old 08-30-2005, 09:10 PM
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Has anyone read this post regarding the Sharp Aquos 45 inch models? If so, what is your opinion of it?

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Originally Posted by drury View Post

Actually they all support 1920 x 1080 30i from a PC on the DVI input if you define it as being a "video signal". Go try it. Unless something is moving fast there is NO flicker as the LCD driver appears to hold the display value between refreshes. Other than some tiny anti-alias difference in 8 point text that my video card probably does, I have a perfect 1080 x 1920 desk-top that is hard to tell from a 1920 x 1080 60P desktop and no trickery required to get the display.

I can't imagine it's anything significant since a solution so simple surely would have been discovered by at least one other owner on this forum. But I thought I'd run it by you all anyways. I'll post the link one or two posts down because the forum is restricting me until I have 5 posts.
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post #204 of 1318 Old 08-30-2005, 09:12 PM
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One more down.
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post #205 of 1318 Old 08-30-2005, 09:13 PM
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post #206 of 1318 Old 08-30-2005, 10:39 PM
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hi guys,

im totally confused now - the model of the lc45 we have in australia is called an lc45g1x. i have in the past read on many lc45 derivatives and believe that the lc45gx6u to be grand daddy model. anyone know much about this aussie spec model and how it compares with the 6u? more specifically, if its an underspecced model, whats it missing?

from what i can gather the aussie model is titanium, speakers across the bottom and comes with media box that has 3 scarts, dvi and components.

thanks,

julie
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post #207 of 1318 Old 08-31-2005, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sholmes View Post

Has anyone read this post regarding the Sharp Aquos 45 inch models? If so, what is your opinion of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drury View Post

Actually they all support 1920 x 1080 30i from a PC on the DVI input if you define it as being a "video signal". Go try it.

I can't imagine it's anything significant since a solution so simple surely would have been discovered by at least one other owner on this forum. But I thought I'd run it by you all anyways.

No, Drury is right. I honestly didn't even see the option in the menus until I fully read in the Sharp TV's manual/book. But now that I have, 1080i is actually not too bad.

I selected "Digital AV" for the DVI port. Other options are Digital/Analog PC and Analog AV. Once I did this, I was able to output the same 1080i signal from my PC to the DVI port on the TV and it worked.

It looks much better going over DVI to the TV then the HDMI cable I was using. It's was only a 3ft cable, and yet the picture in DVI mode with a 10ft cable looks much nicer.

The contrast is better and the TV actually remembers the position of the screen and the mode (ie NOT stretch.) Even though it's interlaced, it looks pretty darned good.

You still really notice the interlacing if you're using it as a PC monitor on a desktop - every time you scroll or move a window, it's really noticable. In games, you'd never know.

I still think I need to go with the GX because someday I may use the TV as a full-time computer monitor, and I'd really need to have progressive scanning for full time use. But for anything else, it really looks great in 1080i over DVI.

What I wonder is.. why can a $600 Dell computer monitor input an HDTV 1080p signal over component or DVI, yet a $5000 TV cannot? It's marketing I guess (Sharp wants to sell Professional units for a lot more, and allow 1080p..)
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post #208 of 1318 Old 08-31-2005, 08:05 AM
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"What I wonder is.. why can a $600 Dell computer monitor input an HDTV 1080p signal over component or DVI, yet a $5000 TV cannot? It's marketing I guess (Sharp wants to sell Professional units for a lot more, and allow 1080p..)"

Makes you think that the reason Sharp got rid of the GX because it could be hot wired to display 1080P.

"I can't imagine it's anything significant since a solution so simple surely would have been discovered by at least one other owner on this forum. But I thought I'd run it by you all anyways. I'll post the link one or two posts down because the forum is restricting me until I have 5 posts. "

People here may have given up early on with a 1080i PC solution because video cards and drivers were not as good 10 or 11 months ago as they are now.
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post #209 of 1318 Old 08-31-2005, 08:31 AM
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1080i from the PC has always worked for me using the HDMI port, but not the DVI port until I set it to Digital AV.

It looks better through the DVI port then the HDMI port did.

The picture quality at 1080i is exceptional (besides my Clayface issue) and looks great for most applications, except when there's movement. Then you notice the interlacing. But the movement has to be pretty specific - small black text on a white background, like in a notepad document, and you move the window. You can see the interlacing. If you watch a video from the computer, you can't see it. In games, the only time you'll notice the interlacing is when some of the sharp lines in the game look more jagged then they should.

For me, having the mind to use the LC-45 as a computer monitor in a couple years when I get a 70" something for the living room, I think the progressive scanning would be a big plus for me. And, it's the highest HDTV spec, so you're not ever going to have to think about that.
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post #210 of 1318 Old 08-31-2005, 01:59 PM
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There's a lot of little features and capabilities of the 45" Sharp TVs that I believe are little used. I wanted to share two products I discovered that may let you get some use out of the PCMCIA slot in your tv.

There's a PCMCIA (PC Card) slot in the front of the AVC box for the GX6U (I assume the non AVC box models have it somewhere). The Sharp is capable of recording analog tv as 320x240 video to a drive in that slot. I've used a compact flash PCMCIA adapter to record short programs to a 512 MB card, but haven't done much more as I figured I needed a 4GB card to even attempt to get a football game (in the highest quality setting). What was weird, however, was that in looking at the manual, it gave recording time for a 5GB capacity card. Now...why on earth would they give a duration value for 5GB. I think I've found the answer. Toshiba made a PCMCIA hard drive that contains a 5 GB 1.8" hard drive with the model number MK5002MPL. I'm betting this is what Sharp was looking at when they put the duration value for 5GB capacity in the owner's manual. I think the drive may be discontinued, but it can be found still for sale on the internet for less than 1/2 the price of a 4GB compact flash card. I also discovered that a company called Apricorn made a 20GB pcmcia hard drive with the model number AHD18T20. This can also be found on the internet for less than the price of a 4GB compact flash card. However, it also appears that it may be a discontinued product as it's not listed on the company's website. I ordered the 5GB card and will report on how it works. It's tempting to have ordered the 20GB card instead (not much of a price increase), but I was less confident that it would "just work". Of course....if there's a brave soul out there....

Anyway, it's not a TIVO, but I've got a MyHD MDP-120 card for doing my high-def recording. I just wanted something "cheap and easy" for doing analog TV recording, and this seems to fit the bill. Now I can just hit the "record" button on my Sharp remote when I want to...

Phoenix
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