Official Sony KDL-V26/32/40XBR1 Bravia LCD Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

I too see the same thing in comparison. The endless loop running at CC had an extreme skiing scene, and the Bravia actually looked like snow as compared to grayed slush! But, are these sets calibrated for how we will watch them in our homes? Are the Bravias in a "torch" mode for them to be impressive by comparison within the stores? Judge the picture quality of the displays to a nearby CRT if you can, and see if that brightness and color pop is all together artificial!

Yes indeed Jim, the Bravias and ALL the LCDs are in torch mode. In fact, just go over to any Bravia and put it in a realistic mode ("Custom" to start) and THEN look at the picture. Gee, those whites are no longer 'sunglass white'! In fact, bring any ISF tech to your house after you buy a Bravia or ANY LCD and you'll see a resulting picture that looks FAR closer to a plasma in terms of brightness. The bottom line is that if you properly calibrate an LCD, it will no longer have that super-bright white look. If anyone has ever seen a super-expensive network studio monitor, you'll never ever see those super bright whites, because that is not a properly calibrated, professionally adjusted picture.

But each to his own.
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post #182 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 01:30 PM
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Well, Bravia's do SHIP in vivid (torch mode),but,so do plasma panels.

My 36" Hi-scan Wega has been properly calibrated with AVIA,as well as my XBR(in CUSTOM mode). Sorry, but there is NO WAY my sony crt whites and colors are as remarkably bright and vivid as the XBR lcd. Not on it's best day.

It's the way lcd illuminates the screen, NOT because it's in torch mode... =)

For the record... when i was comparing the two panels the XBR was NOT in torch mode,i had checked to see where it was at,it was set on standard. Not sure how Pioneer was set.

Hammr
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post #183 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 01:45 PM
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I've had the KDL-V40XBR1 for about two weeks. For me it had by far the best looking picture of any LCD. I also liked the size as it was a little larger then the 37" plasma I was considering but smaller then the 42" which was too big for me. I know there is strong feelings on LCD vs. plasma but for me it's just personal preference. LCDs in general were more pleasing to my eyes and I liked that I could be less concerned with burn in.

Being new to the HD/Widescreen world it was a bit of learning experience to get it setup but all appears to be working well. I picked up a motorola 6412 HD cable box/DVR from Comcast the day I got the TV and have it connected via HDMI to the XBR. The box is putting out 1080i. I've not tried changing it yet to 720p to see if there is a difference. I could not get Comcast to give me a cable card in addition to the box so I don't have any experience yet in that area. I also need to understand more about (losing) the Guide if I go with a cable card. I have a Toshiba progressive scan DVD player putting out 420p connected via component. I've only tweaked the settings slightly on the XBR. It looked pretty good out of the box but I want to spend more time and do it right.

HDTV looks awesome! I've watched a couple movies from the DVD player and they look very good too. Regular TV is well, just regular but overall I'm happy with my choice.
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post #184 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammr View Post

Well, Bravia's do SHIP in vivid (torch mode),but,so do plasma panels.

My 36" Hi-scan Wega has been properly calibrated with AVIA,as well as my XBR(in CUSTOM mode). Sorry, but there is NO WAY my sony crt whites and colors are as remarkably bright and vivid as the XBR lcd. Not on it's best day.

It's the way lcd illuminates the screen, NOT because it's in torch mode... =)

For the record... when i was comparing the two panels the XBR was NOT in torch mode,i had checked to see where it was at,it was set on standard. Not sure how Pioneer was set.

Hammr

Hammr,

I would be interested in knowing what settings you ended up with after using AVIA if you would like to share them.
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post #185 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammr View Post

For the record... when i was comparing the two panels the XBR was NOT in torch mode,i had checked to see where it was at,it was set on standard. Not sure how Pioneer was set.

Hammr

Standard mode on the Bravia is not much different in terms of brightness than Vivid. Custom mode is quite different and is the mode that any ISF tech would use. In fact, it's the only mode that enables you to use the more accurate warm settings as opposed to 'cool' or 'normal' (both are too cool). Remember, when I mentioned about properly adjusting LCDs (whether by ISF techs or other methodology), I said it would be 'closer' to plasmas, I didn't say they'd be the same brightness as plasmas. I'm merely indicating that the gap would be narrowed.
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post #186 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Standard mode on the Bravia is not much different in terms of brightness than Vivid. Custom mode is quite different and is the mode that any ISF tech would use. In fact, it's the only mode that enables you to use the more accurate warm settings as opposed to 'cool' or 'normal' (both are too cool). Remember, when I mentioned about properly adjusting LCDs (whether by ISF techs or other methodology), I said it would be 'closer' to plasmas, I didn't say they'd be the same brightness as plasmas. I'm merely indicating that the gap would be narrowed.

Correct! The standard mode isn't much different than vivid. Actually, I can't hardly tell the difference. If you put the Bravia in custom mode then all of a sudden it falls flat on its face so no arguement there. I do realize that professionals will use custom mode to achieve the highest PQ and then at that, it won't rival a plasma if your trying to be super picky. So I'll give you that.

But...I was just at BB today and they had the 40" Bravia smack dab in the middle of the 42" plasmas. Specifically the samsung ed/hd, pannys, pio elite, magnavox, polaroid, and LG so basically everything. I noticed first that the Bravia was brighter than all of them. The pio elite was right on top of it too. The snow was so vivid and white where all others where muddy. Okay before you think I'm knockin' on plasmas...just to be fair I turned off the vivid and went into custom and tried to adjust the pic. Plasmas offered better motion and more reality with their PQ at this point. So now I see exactly what your talking about. It's going to be hard to duplicate that with an LCD.

Just for measure, I tried one more thing on the Bravia. I decided that I liked the vivid (torch) mode....I guess it's because I'm "cool" I dunno. But anyhow, while in vivid mode I turned down the brightdown to 30. That's it! Now I'm looking at a picture that is on par with the plasmas. It took away that rediculous fakeness that is torch mode and toned it down to almost exactly meet the samsung 42" hd plasma. Try this for yourself next time your in the stores.

Take care
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post #187 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 04:40 PM
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Kristopher, I believe you, I've turned the brightness down on my Bravia to about 35. The default whites and brightness are just nuts IMO. But hey, I can see someone being perfectly happy with the torch mode...not everyone is after an accurate picture. People buy bright speakers knowing their not accurate, but they simply like the sound.
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post #188 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shad0wz View Post

Hammr,

I gotta say, you have got to be one of the only person's on here that consistently think the Bravia LCD is better than plasma. I disagree on all your points, the plasma's to me at least look much more life like and not the least bit blurry. I dont know how you get "blurry" from a fixed pixel display. Anyhow, the only thing I will agree with you on is "Let your eyes be the judge"

Ever since the 40XBR1 units came out I have always thought based on all the stores I've been to that the Sony LCD was by far the best. So no, Hammr is not alone. It really is a matter of preference and for me I prefer the picture on the Sony.

I've said this before and I'll say it again...the PQ on the more popular plasmas are not bad. They look really good...but for some reason and I don't know what it is but to my eyes the PQ just isn't as vibrant and eye-popping as it is on the Sony 40XBR1. Instead I find the PQ on the plasmas to be "soft" which isn't bad...but I want my picture to "pop" and jump out at me.
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post #189 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 06:40 PM
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I want to thank everyone to date for the spirited debate between the Panasonic plasma and the Bravia. I have to say that I am defiitely leaning towards the Bravia as I would agree with those that say the picture "pops" on the Bravia as opposed to the plasma and is nothing like I have seen on other HDTVs. I will say that the dark level was a bit better on the Panasonic but for me, the "pop" factor was more of a noticeable difference than the black levels between the two. Now if I can only find a sale on the 40" Bravia. Maybe after the holidays I'll get lucky?

Thanks everyone,
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post #190 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 07:13 PM
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you mean the 40" not 42".

DELETE THIS IF THIS ISN'T THE PLACE FOR THE X SERIES
i guess the new x series could have a part in this thread too?
http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/bravia/pr...s.cfm?series=x

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

-1080p in 2 HDMI's
-pc input 1920x1080@60HZ

released 11/20/05 in JAPAN, here no idea
sonystyle japan prices converted to USD MSRP!
comes with table top stand
Kdl-46x1000-$5,786
Kdl-40x1000-$4,896
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post #191 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUGEN View Post

you mean the 40" not 42".

DELETE THIS IF THIS ISN'T THE PLACE FOR THE X SERIES
i guess the new x series could have a part in this thread too?
http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/bravia/pr...s.cfm?series=x

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

-1080p in 2 HDMI's
-pc input 1920x1080@60HZ

released 11/20/05 in JAPAN, here no idea
sonystyle japan prices converted to USD MSRP!
comes with table top stand
Kdl-46x1000-$5,786
Kdl-40x1000-$4,896

Wow, that is one butt ugly looking TV.
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post #192 of 1432 Old 12-07-2005, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visual insanity View Post

Ever since the 40XBR1 units came out I have always thought based on all the stores I've been to that the Sony LCD was by far the best. So no, Hammr is not alone. It really is a matter of preference and for me I prefer the picture on the Sony.

I've said this before and I'll say it again...the PQ on the more popular plasmas are not bad. They look really good...but for some reason and I don't know what it is but to my eyes the PQ just isn't as vibrant and eye-popping as it is on the Sony 40XBR1. Instead I find the PQ on the plasmas to be "soft" which isn't bad...but I want my picture to "pop" and jump out at me.

I will say one thing, and this is coming from a plasma only buyer, but was watching "A Shark's Tale" on the Bravia 40XBR1 today at CC and it was stunning. The colors were vivid. The WOW factor was there. But, this same TV previously had "Indiana Jones" on it and some of the indoor scenes were lacking some detail. Seems this TV pops on some material and is mediocre on others. But "A Shark's Tale" was gorgeous.
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post #193 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Kristopher, I believe you, I've turned the brightness down on my Bravia to about 35. The default whites and brightness are just nuts IMO. But hey, I can see someone being perfectly happy with the torch mode...not everyone is after an accurate picture. People buy bright speakers knowing their not accurate, but they simply like the sound.

Ken... just out of curiousity..... what do you have your contrast and backlight set to?
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post #194 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

I will say one thing, and this is coming from a plasma only buyer, but was watching "A Shark's Tale" on the Bravia 40XBR1 today at CC and it was stunning. The colors were vivid. The WOW factor was there. But, this same TV previously had "Indiana Jones" on it and some of the indoor scenes were lacking some detail. Seems this TV pops on some material and is mediocre on others. But "A Shark's Tale" was gorgeous.

Yea thats exactly what I was mentioning in my posts earlier... this TV does poorly with dark scenes just like any LCD does, whereas plasma shines in that area. LCD's do great with bright vibrant scenes, but fall on their face when it comes to dim scenes. Just watch master and commander on an LCD and you will see what i mean.
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post #195 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

I will say one thing, and this is coming from a plasma only buyer, but was watching "A Shark's Tale" on the Bravia 40XBR1 today at CC and it was stunning. The colors were vivid. The WOW factor was there. But, this same TV previously had "Indiana Jones" on it and some of the indoor scenes were lacking some detail. Seems this TV pops on some material and is mediocre on others. But "A Shark's Tale" was gorgeous.

Yes, and you've basically outlined the plasma vs LCD argument in one sentence.
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post #196 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhamp View Post

Ken... just out of curiousity..... what do you have your contrast and backlight set to?


Backlight set to 6, contrast to 70 and brightness at 35. I'd love to lower the contrast even further, but it just seems the picture needs some hyping during the day. We use the Bravia in a bright kitchen.
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post #197 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Backlight set to 6, contrast to 70 and brightness at 35. I'd love to lower the contrast even further, but it just seems the picture needs some hyping during the day. We use the Bravia in a bright kitchen.


Those settings are very close to where I have mine (although I may have the backlight down some and the brightness up). As I mentioned to you earlier, I'm a bit baffled that everyone else who's posted on this thread has their contrast set to 90, 95 or Max.
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post #198 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUGEN View Post


-1080p in 2 HDMI's
-pc input 1920x1080@60HZ

released 11/20/05 in JAPAN, here no idea
sonystyle japan prices converted to USD MSRP!
comes with table top stand

Kdl-40x1000-$4,896

So, you figure that's the same panel JVC is using in their new 1080p LT-40FH96 then? IIRC the JVC press info indicated the glass was Samsung...


ron
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post #199 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 09:37 AM
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I'd like to see more settings (Hammr and others,) if it's using component HDMI etc, and what it's displaying (XBox, DVD, etc.)

Thanks.
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post #200 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R11 View Post

So, you figure that's the same panel JVC is using in their new 1080p LT-40FH96 then? IIRC the JVC press info indicated the glass was Samsung...

Dunno about the panel, but the JVC thread indicates the documentation says the JVC 1080p set accepts max 1024x768 PC input. This hasn't been independently verified by end-users yet. It wouldn't be the first time a set accepts more video formats than indicated by the manual.
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post #201 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shad0wz View Post

Yea thats exactly what I was mentioning in my posts earlier... this TV does poorly with dark scenes just like any LCD does, whereas plasma shines in that area. LCD's do great with bright vibrant scenes, but fall on their face when it comes to dim scenes. Just watch master and commander on an LCD and you will see what i mean.


You're beginning to sound like the Westa6969 of plasma displays. You two should fight to the death...

The Bravias I've seen don't quite "fall on their face" when it comes to dim scenes. I've seen Master and Commander and Sin City on the Bravias and it looks just fine. Does it display dark scenes as well as plasma? No. But that doesn't mean it completely falls flat either. Just like plasmas don't fall flat on their face during bright vibrant scenes even though they don't look as good as LCD.

I hope you can see how you're beginning to sound like the Westa6969 of plasma displays...
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post #202 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 12:19 PM
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Hey any owners out there (or others) that can comment on SDTV signals on this display? My parents are at a crossroads between the 40XBR1 and the 36XS955, nad 80% of the material they watch is Standard Def. The very rarely watch DVD's, and no chance of an XBOX 360 hitting the stage.

Help?
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post #203 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wizzy420 View Post

Hey any owners out there (or others) that can comment on SDTV signals on this display? My parents are at a crossroads between the 40XBR1 and the 36XS955, nad 80% of the material they watch is Standard Def. The very rarely watch DVD's, and no chance of an XBOX 360 hitting the stage.

Help?


wiz -

I have had my 40" XBR up & running for less than a week and haven't had an opportunity to view it with DTV's new 5lnb dish & H20 box yet thanks to Ironwood Communications' poor installation practices. So, my current viewing consists of dvd's and SD via my non-HD DTV equipment.

So far, my reception has been good although not quite as good as our old Trinitron for certain SD programming. No ghosting, no washed out colors, no false contouring or artifacting - just slightly less sharp.
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post #204 of 1432 Old 12-08-2005, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wizzy420 View Post

...80% of the material they watch is Standard Def. They very rarely watch DVD's....

Then tell them to get an ED display such as the Panasonic 42" plasma. Excellent picture, and it seems all they want is a flat panel without the need for it to "interfere" with their standard TV watching!
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post #205 of 1432 Old 12-09-2005, 06:57 AM
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Tip:

I own the 32" XBR LCD. I subcribe to Time Warner Cable Raleigh which provides digital simulcast of the analogue standard cable package. I also use the Pace Set Top HD Box. This particular box has (I do not know about SA boxes) the ability to set the output resolution to either 1080i, 720p, 480i, 480p, or "PASS".

THE PQ ON SD IS MUCH (AT LEAST 25%) BETTER IN THE "PASS" MODE. Reason being is the scaler in the box is crappy. The scaler in the TV is excellent. In the "pass" mode, the box passes the native resolution of the channel to the TV for processing. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Again, I don't know if all brands of set-top boxes allow a "pass" through output. If yours doesn't, I encourage you to exchange it for one that does, if available. If you really want to benefit from all the enhanced technology of this set, be aware of what you feed it.
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post #206 of 1432 Old 12-09-2005, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by posg View Post

THE PQ ON SD IS MUCH (AT LEAST 25%) BETTER IN THE "PASS" MODE. Reason being is the scaler in the box is crappy. The scaler in the TV is excellent. In the "pass" mode, the box passes the native resolution of the channel to the TV for processing. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

That's a good point. On the Motorola DCT HD boxes (used by Comcast, TW and others) there is no pass mode but there are two settings that can be changed, one for HD output and one called "4:3 override." I have yet to receive my KDL-V40XBR1 so haven't tested this yet but with my current plasma, setting the override to "NONE" (the default is 480i) seems to help, so it might be doing something similar to the "pass" mode.

I wonder if setting the HD option on the Motorola cable box to 720p (the TV's native res) will be better than 1080i. I believe 1080i is the default for the box...
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post #207 of 1432 Old 12-09-2005, 08:33 AM
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This question about the output of the Comcast 6412 is a good one that i've been wondering as well.

I haven't gotten aroudn to playing around with the differences yet, but does anybody have a sense of if it should make a difference with the Bravia?
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post #208 of 1432 Old 12-09-2005, 10:31 AM
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I have a 40" Bravia and the 6412. SD picture quality is an embarrassment.

For HD, I set to 720p output. It seemed slightly less "fuzzy" to my eye than 1080i.

Based on this discussion, I'll try to experiment more with the "4:3 override setting". I saw little/no difference between 480i and 480p. I basically punted and use the internal tuner on the Bravia for non-HD channels. Tonight, I'll try the other settings to see if they make a difference.

For reference, here is an excerpt from the 6412 manual:

4:3 Override Sets the display format for 4:3 standard-definition
programming. If the YPrPb Output is set to 1080i, 720p, or
480p, this setting defaults to 480i. If the YPrPb Output is set
to 480i, this setting defaults to OFF and cannot be changed.
Options are:
OFF displays non-high-definition programs having a 4:3
aspect ratio in wide screen format. On an HDTV, black
bars display on the left and right of the picture.
Selecting OFF for a 4:3 TV may result in a small picture
with black bars around it.
480i displays non-high-definition programs in their
original 480i format. Some TVs cannot display 480i
format on their component video inputs (YPbPr). Check
the TV user manual for more information. Graphics
overlaying the video are displayed.
480p converts non-high-definition TV programs to a
higher-quality 480p format. Some TVs cannot display
480p format on their component video inputs (YPbPr).
Check the TV user manual for more information.
Graphics overlaying the video are not displayed.
Stretch automatically stretches all standard definition
programming to fill your widescreen display. Stretch can
only be selected if you have TV Type set to 16:9.
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post #209 of 1432 Old 12-09-2005, 10:47 AM
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I have a DCT 6412 III and was playing around with the settings for 4:3 override last night trying to see if any of them improved the SD picture on my KDL-V40XBR1. I only was at it for about 10 minutes but I could not tell much of a difference between 480i, 480p and none. Also, someone said in a different thread (don't know if this is correct) that the 'none' setting on the 6412 is not the same as 'pass'. They said the 'none' setting is actually sending what you have set for HD which in my case would be 1080i.

I have not tried changing HD to 720p but that is also something I want to try as well as spend more time viewing the different 4:3 override options. If someone else has a 6412 III and is seeing a big improvement with a specific override option please let me know.

EDIT: From what I have read in several posts on the motorola 6412 thread if you have 4:3 override set to off it means the 6412 is sending all channels at 1080i (or whatever you have the HDMI/YPbPr set to).
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post #210 of 1432 Old 12-09-2005, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stec1123 View Post

You're beginning to sound like the Westa6969 of plasma displays. You two should fight to the death...

The Bravias I've seen don't quite "fall on their face" when it comes to dim scenes. I've seen Master and Commander and Sin City on the Bravias and it looks just fine. Does it display dark scenes as well as plasma? No. But that doesn't mean it completely falls flat either. Just like plasmas don't fall flat on their face during bright vibrant scenes even though they don't look as good as LCD.

I hope you can see how you're beginning to sound like the Westa6969 of plasma displays...

Ha ha, the trend toward hyperbole has always been the undoing of places like this.

I've compared the Sony KDL-V40XBR1 and the Panasonic TH-42PX500U at length, and they're both excellent displays. They have their individual strengths and weaknesses -- documented to death -- but neither "falls on its face" on any kind of material.

Every time I see somebody here tell us that Set A "blows away" Set B, I just roll my eyes, 'cause it's not very useful information, and you never see that kinda language in professional reviews.
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