Sony 40" KDL-40V2500 and 46" KDL-46V2500 HDTV Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 12:57 PM
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Quote: You can get both the Samsungs and the Sonys at comparable price and given the choice I'd go with the Sony.

Oh. Off the top of my head I thought the Sammys were a cheaper.

Quote: They are both great pictures and great sets but I found the functionality from the Sony to be superior. Tuner is much better, menu functionality is much better, picture configurability is much better, and the Sony does 1:1. As far as the final product goes I could get them to both look about the same.

then I'll probably end up waiting some more...
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post #182 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 01:20 PM
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I have yet to get any sort of confirmation from any Nyc members who want to meet this weekend in front of CC ( 14st and union Sq ) to check out this set. let me know
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post #183 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 03:53 PM
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I was going to seriously think about joining you Shin but my employer got a truckload of work on Friday from our biggest client, and they want it all done by Monday morning. Since everybody else at the office lives in upstate NY or Jersey, guess who got stuck with weekend overtime because he's the only one who lives in Manhattan? Can't complain though, I need all the overtime I can to help me pay for the HDTV I decide to buy (which could well be the XBR2).

Maybe I'll sneak during lunch to CC (I'm on 30th & 5th) at 1PM and watch you test the XBR2 from afar without telling letting you know who I am. Then I can share with the rest of the world what the mighty Shinraven looks like in person! Better put on some pants for the XBR2 test.
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post #184 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD1080 View Post

My dealer expects the 40V2500 to be available around Sept 5 so I'm still optimistic that may be a possibility.

I'm in MD, and also want the 40V2500... which dealer? A BB? Belmont? At the BB in Glen Burnie they didn't know of any V2500's (just a salesman). Sept 5th sounds great... right after labor day. Despite the issues about these sets, I'm done waiting for a 1080p. I'm going to look for a good tv/component stand tomorrow (and stop at another BB or CC).
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post #185 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 07:22 PM
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Shinraven--as I mentioned, I'd join you, but I'll be out of town. I'm wondering if you could let us know how SD looks on this 1080p TV? I'd be interested in seeing if it's noticeably worse than a 720p TV. I'd also wonder if you can see a difference between 1080i and 720p signals? If you have a chance to look, I'd love to hear what your thoughts were.
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post #186 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I preordered from an on-line dealer over a thousand miles from Maryland. After seeing Sonystyle's "on or about Sept 30" arrival date I'm now thinking that the estimate of the 5th is probably too optimistic. Oh well the 30th isn't that far off.
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post #187 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 08:10 PM
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Well...I am back in the hunt for a 1080p LCD set. And I really, really want it before too much of the football season passes ( I am a diehard FB Fan - Dolphins!! - shows just how diehard I am)

Even though I had previously spent some time with the XBR2 - the recent reports of macroblocking and other wierd artifacts and anomolies alarmed me. I too have seen some really crappy setups of this set. (No where near as bad as some pics posted - but crappy none the less).

I dragged 3 of my mates along and off to Fry's we went to spend the afternoon determining if the SOny was the set...and which one. The Fry's (Phoenix Thunderbird location) has the xbr2 next to the sammy 96 and JVC 97 and sammy 95 with the XBR1 at the end. Made for some easy ways to compare. We took along a macbook, mac pro and laptop running at ATI card. Also brought some VGA cables (monoprice), HDMI, DVI/HDMI and component.

I did not spend alot of time comparing- but quickly grabbed the remotes (thanks to David - salesman at Frys) and setup all 3 sets. I spent ALOT more time tweaking the Sony and the reason why - was also to determine how much effect the DRC modes had and if they would be worth anything. Hence the reason I am posting in this thread. Wanted to determine if I should just wait for the 2500. Fry's had an HD feed (PBS) and SD (station 5) fed via coax from cable to the sets, we also used a BR player and an HD(non updated).

AT NO time during the playback of HD PBS did we witness ANY macroblocking. There was a bit of dithering in dark scenes and at close distance (less than 2 ft) mosquito noise. This disappaeared at about 6+ feet. Should mention that ultimately for the video feeds we had DRC to mode 1 with all other processing turned off. It appears using DRC for some video feeds and utilizing the advanced programming of it (62/57 resectively) in combination to the other settings smooths out the picture to an almost plasma like level. It was easy to compare the sets to the sammy and JVC as well as the plasma's behind us as we tweaked. Since we did not spend the same amount of time tweaking the sammy's - I cannot tell if they could get to the same space. They certainly did not have the fine grained controles, color space, RGB or bias settings we were able to access on the Sony - so it is somewhat doubtful that you will get that last 10% out of them. However we did tweak the Sony and ultimately had many employee's, passer by's and others quite impressed with the PQ. It was hands down better than every display on the row. (All mentioned above). Then moved over to the SD signal - in non stretched mode and bringing up the backlight a bit - were able to tweak this to very accetable levels. We were unable to get any of the other sets as close in PQ. This fell apart when stretched and they all looked bad.

Black levels and contrast were really a differentiator - natural colors, great depth and fine detail. This was apparent as one of the images were of a man wearing a dark black sweater - the folds of the swearter were visible without washing it out or "graying" it as the sammy and JVC did in order to show the folds. You could actually see the weave - again no macroblocking - very clean PQ. There was a lady playing the pinao with her hands flying across the keyboard - we watched for motion blurring, ghosting and trailing. The skin tones against the lighter and dark keys provided a great contrast and ability to see any type of artifacting. WIth DRC turned up and all the procesing in place - motion blur and mosquito noise were evident. Properly set - it was impossible to see from beyond 2-3 feet.

We then moved on the HD and BR. We found that turning off DRC processing achieved the best results. In addition turning off all other processing. The demo material from both players was outstanding and then we played scenes of trianing day. The BR was short lived (we need not go there) and moved on to all HD playback. Scenes were very detailed, black levels were not crushed and whites were great. (For some reason giving the lighting white level settings on high were very appealing) along with various settings for gamma, back light and advanced settings of bias - the PQ was stunning. AGain NO, NONE, NOT a SPEC of any macroblocking what so ever. There was film grain and the DRC modes turned on enhanced this in an unappealing way. Turning them off, smoothed out the PQ without losing detail or overly softening it while not emphasizing the film grain.

We then hooked up all Mac/Pc's via the HDMI and VGA inputs. In all cases the PQ was crisper, text was smoother and the display more appealing via HDMI. There was slight ghosting on the VGA input and the colors seemed dull compared to the HDMI input. All output was at 1080p - using full and no overscan as present. Very little tweaking was done to the various OS desktop modes and text was clean and sharp (if a bit small) at 4-5 feet. At 2-3 ft the experience was not as pleasant.

We ran multiple quicktime trailers, several movie scenes and opened up office and various applications. All were very detailed, no ghosting, no trailing and crisp and clean.

I am very staisfied with our testing. The Sony looks to be the set. What intrigued me was possible getting the 2500 instead of the XBR2/3. I did find that there was a small amount of difference (positive in terms of PQ) in using the various DRC settings and advanced programming of it for video based sources. Enough to justify the larger $$$ - without seeing the 2500 I do not know. If that is the only diference - than DRC off for most sources probably will be good enough. It is not even available in PC or gaming modes - so only an issue for film and video sources.

All else being equal - and the 2500 having the rest of the advanced settings and calibration tweaks the XBR's do - then the 2500 might well be a heck of a display. Not to mention I personally prefer the swivel stand and styling of it to the XBR series.

SO - these sets can look great - however they MUST be tweaked. As they are displayed - they are pretty bad and the differences the various configurations have is pretty extreme. If I had not done it for myself - not sure I would have believed you could get this level of PQ, black levels and contrast from this display. So - while reports on AVS are great - this is one set that you need to have a known source and play with the settings to really determine if it will work for you. As always - just my .02$

Therese
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post #188 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 08:29 PM
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Awesome review! Thanks for a such a detailed description of your experience. I'm really looking forward to hearing what people think when they actually get their hands on the 2500s.
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post #189 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 08:29 PM
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Thanks Therese, you rock.

Good to hear that the macroblocking issues were source related. From what I gather, if you feed this set a weak signal, it degrades and shows up a bit. ie looping through a receiver ( someone mentioned a panasonic receiver a while back)

I mentioned this before, from previous visit to stores. BB is not the place to view this set. 1 ) unless it's connected to an HD-dvd machine directly via hdmi, this is not a good way to judge it. ( the best buy in Nyc using HD dvd demo was awesome...not much noise present. the Sahara scene was breath taking.)

I wanted to get some users to go this weekend to do a similar experience as you, but it looks like we will have to postpone this till the following week, since most are working or are away. Either way..while shopping with the wife this weekend, I will * cough somehow end up at CC. ehehehe.

again thanks for your time and tests.
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post #190 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpwj40e View Post

Well...I am back in the hunt for a 1080p LCD set..... I spent ALOT more time tweaking the Sony and the reason why - was also to determine how much effect the DRC modes had and if they would be worth anything....Wanted to determine if I should just wait for the 2500...we did tweak the Sony and ultimately had many employee's, passer by's and others quite impressed with the PQ. It was hands down better than every display on the row...
Black levels and contrast were really a differentiator - natural colors, great depth and fine detail. This was apparent as one of the images were of a man wearing a dark black sweater - the folds of the swearter were visible without washing it out or "graying" it as the sammy and JVC did in order to show the folds. You could actually see the weave - again no macroblocking - very clean PQ...We then moved on the HD and BR. We found that turning off DRC processing achieved the best results....We then hooked up all Mac/Pc's via the HDMI and VGA inputs. In all cases the PQ was crisper, text was smoother and the display more appealing via HDMI. There was slight ghosting on the VGA input and the colors seemed dull compared to the HDMI input. All output was at 1080p - using full and no overscan as present....We ran multiple quicktime trailers, several movie scenes and opened up office and various applications. All were very detailed, no ghosting, no trailing and crisp and clean....I am very staisfied with our testing. The Sony looks to be the set. What intrigued me was possible getting the 2500 instead of the XBR2/3....All else being equal - and the 2500 having the rest of the advanced settings and calibration tweaks the XBR's do - then the 2500 might well be a heck of a display. Not to mention I personally prefer the swivel stand and styling of it to the XBR series.Therese

What a great report Therese! I especially like the part about the PC input over HDMI looking so much better on the XBR2 than over VGA. After studying the 1080p LCD situation all summer now I believe that the V2500 has the potential to offer the best performance and ergonomics among the competition. Based on the reviews I've seen I'm not at all concerned about the lack of DRC on the V2500. Your report on the visibility of folds on a dark black sweater for the XBR2 is one more mark in favor of the Sony. I would have bought the XBR2 three weeks ago had it not been for the extra weight and width as compared to the V2500. I have followed your reports on the JVC LT-46FN97. How would you compare the JVC to the XBR2 now that you've studied the two for a longer period of time?
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post #191 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wpwj40e View Post

We then hooked up all Mac/Pc's via the HDMI and VGA inputs. In all cases the PQ was crisper, text was smoother and the display more appealing via HDMI. There was slight ghosting on the VGA input and the colors seemed dull compared to the HDMI input. All output was at 1080p - using full and no overscan as present. Very little tweaking was done to the various OS desktop modes and text was clean and sharp (if a bit small) at 4-5 feet. At 2-3 ft the experience was not as pleasant.

We ran multiple quicktime trailers, several movie scenes and opened up office and various applications. All were very detailed, no ghosting, no trailing and crisp and clean.
Therese

Thanks for the detailed review. I'm wondering what you mean by "at 2-3 ft the experience was not as pleasant". Were there problems with the text that were evident only when looking from a short distance? Doesn't it look just like it would on an LCD computer monitor?
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post #192 of 5357 Old 08-25-2006, 11:57 PM
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Well.....It's been nearly 12 hours since I got the news SonyStyle won't be shipping the 46v2500 till mid-October. Although I'm disappointed, I refuse to go with the xbr2/3 simply because I won't wait for the set I prefer (on both aesthetics and hard stats). The 46xbr2 is now within $400 of its less expensive v2500 sibling, and the v2500 is likely to drop $400 within a month of its release, so wait is not always a bad thing (if one knows how to do it). In the interim, perhaps I'll get to view the Syntax 747i with the GOD processor prior to taking delivery of the 46v2500. Although inaccurate, one site is now showing the 747i as in stock and shipping for the full msrp of nearly $5K. Now, that's a price premium! (especially from a low tier manufactuerer like Olevia). This set would have to steamroll the competition on SD to justify its selection, even at 20% under msrp. Even then, it will be one HEAVY sucker.
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post #193 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 01:31 AM
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Therese, thank you for your report. I've been waiting weeks for somebody who knows what they're doing to do a thorough, detailed test of this set compared to some of its competitors. I couldn't have asked for more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by badself View Post

Well.....It's been nearly 12 hours since I got the news SonyStyle won't be shipping the 46v2500 till mid-October. Although I'm disappointed, I refuse to go with the xbr2/3 simply because I won't wait for the set I prefer (on both aesthetics and hard stats). The 46xbr2 is now within $400 of its less expensive v2500 sibling, and the v2500 is likely to drop $400 within a month of its release, so wait is not always a bad thing (if one knows how to do it).

I agree, although it's still going to be tough for me to resist giving in to the "I've waited long enough" syndrome.
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post #194 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 01:31 AM
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badself...must u bring bad news. lol. oct ?? yuk ! too many sets out there. my friends wanting a set wont wait that long. choices so far....4695/6 ..or this xbr2 if i can convince them. hopefuly we will get to play with these sets soon. I am in a retun process on my own and will prob wait out then decide what to get at a later time.

sonys site still list them as sept. which is not bad.. a week or 2. oct would suck big time
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post #195 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Shinraven View Post

sonys site still list them as sept. which is not bad.. a week or 2. oct would suck big time

If you proceed through the preorder on Sony's site, you will get to a page that informs you of the later shipping dates (i.e. Sept. 30 for the 40v2500, and Oct. 15 for the 46v2500). It's possible that some retailers (or e-tailers) will get this set shortly before SonyStyle begins shipping. Seems like I've been getting more than my share of bad news, lately. BTW, my dealer had already informed me that the 40 will ship prior to the 46 by a week or two.
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post #196 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD1080 View Post

What a great report Therese! I especially like the part about the PC input over HDMI looking so much better on the XBR2 than over VGA. After studying the 1080p LCD situation all summer now I believe that the V2500 has the potential to offer the best performance and ergonomics among the competition. Based on the reviews I've seen I'm not at all concerned about the lack of DRC on the V2500. Your report on the visibility of folds on a dark black sweater for the XBR2 is one more mark in favor of the Sony. I would have bought the XBR2 three weeks ago had it not been for the extra weight and width as compared to the V2500. I have followed your reports on the JVC LT-46FN97. How would you compare the JVC to the XBR2 now that you've studied the two for a longer period of time?

Hi Lcd...Like any other display there are some points in favor of the JVC, some in favor of the Sony. Let's put the 1080p issues aside and talk about PQ, aesthetics, usability....

I personally like the JVC styling about 1000% better than the Sony. It has a swivel stand, all black, is lighter and simply disappears when watching the set. This makes watching 4:3 a liitle easier as well as you do not see"TV" aorund the picture - just the picture.

The JVC is easier to tweak (there is much less to do and 99% of users are gonna end up with Vivid or standard and a few of the items turned down or off.) It's literally a few minutes (assuming you know about the energy saver feature) you can get a darned good picture for most sources right away. The theaterpro mode is well...UGH....my guess is not implemented correctly for this series. Just not gonna be used by most folks. Another feature of the JVC is it's ability to "retain" PQ setings per input per source (i.e. 480i, 1080i). This is a really cool feature as you typically would have different settings for lets say football at 1080i than you would your favourite sitcom at 480i. You do not have to do a thing - once you set up your input PQ settings, go to each setting and change your source and configure again. From then on the set will actually change the settings dependent upon the source it detects.

While the JVS menu's are nothing to write home about - just remember to keep paging down and up to make sure you got them all. The average user will probably not be intimidated by them as they are relatively few. For those that don't like to tweak - you will get to what settings you like pretty quickly and be done.

The Sony on the other hand had numerous settings and they interact with each other. Something not explained(in the manual) and you would have to have some AV or video background to really appreciate all the tweaking you can do. There are so many settings and the impact they have on each other that tweaking this set can be daunting. The other downside is that you HAVE to tweak this set to even get to the same level that the JVC gets to in about 5 minutes. It did not appear then the sony retained multiple sttings per input like the JVC. It WILL take work to get the SOny to look good. Once you do it- it looks really good, but this set is not for those that think your gonna tweak one input and be done. It really does not show well otherwise. And there is ALOT of video processing taking place - some good - some not so good. There are probably 5-7 settings along these lines and they interact with deeper menu items. So...long story - set needs to be tweaked and it will take time. On the good side - unlike the JVC which typically has settings like on/off, low high. The Sony has multiple variables for alot of its settings and detail for many of them as well.

PQ wise - On SD I might give a slight edge to the JVC. Actually there is a reason for this - it appears that the JVC handles sub par pictures better than the Sony. Upon close inspection - its not that the issue (noise, pixelation you name it ) went away, rather the processor in the JVC appears to "spread" it out and smooth it more so than the Sony or Samsung for that matter. One could say the JVC is a little more forgiving of bad sources than the others. Ultimately this affects SD PQ quality rendering a slightly softer, however more appealing picture. The downside is HD material and really good source material seem to have a slight edge with the Sony. The "softening" of the PQ the JVC does is really slight - probably accounts for the better SD and upon close scrutiny with another set next to it - appears to ever so slightly impact good HD material.

For black levels, if you turn the energy saver feature way down you can get pretty close on both sets. However the color space is different and the JVC has no real way of changing that (high and low are your color settings). This essentially makes the picture slightly darker and you cannot bring up the white levels or bias to get the "pop" back. As deep as you set the black - you do have some crushing happening on the JVC, so you need to bring it up a bit to get detail back and then you end up with the darkest of grays for contrast. Again there are so few settings to tweak that on/off or high low - just can't get you to the level you can with the Sony. The JVC was far better in detail, black and contrast than the Samsung.

Without continuing to write a book - hopefully this gives you some idea of the differences. Both are darn good sets and in many cases the JVC may be the better set for certain implementations. (like my parents for instance

Therese
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post #197 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 10:56 AM
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Sounds like you want to get another set Therese am I correct and if so, which would you go with. Btw how would you compare to the sony to the samsung 4095/96 that were on display, pq wise.

for the users here could you post your settings as much as you can remember hehehe
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post #198 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by visualguy View Post

Thanks for the detailed review. I'm wondering what you mean by "at 2-3 ft the experience was not as pleasant". Were there problems with the text that were evident only when looking from a short distance? Doesn't it look just like it would on an LCD computer monitor?

Not so much problems as...just typical LCD type issues. I am one of those that typiclaly use a higher refresh rate on my PC displays as I can see a flicker at 60HZ. When up really close (1-2 ft) this is bothersome to me. You also have a much larger space in which to display the 2 million pixels than say a 24in display. hence the DPi is larger and that is evident on the 46 or even the smaller displays.

At 1-2 ft I can see some dithering (on all of these sets - even at 1080p) and I can also see it on larger displays such as the apple cinema. So no real problems - just the ususal. I would put an Apple 30" display steps above the 1080p sets (westy included) for pure pc display purposes at close range. However it is not possible for me to use a 46" display from 2 ft.

For everyday work, picture editing, movie watching, game playing etc. The set is fine from a workable distance. IMHO of course

Therese
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post #199 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinraven View Post

Sounds like you want to get another set Therese am I correct and if so, which would you go with. Btw how would you compare to the sony to the samsung 4095/96 that were on display, pq wise.

for the users here could you post your settings as much as you can remember hehehe

Fisrt off you need to understand that I am somewhat anal retentive with a good case of adult ADHD I am really picky about certain things - black levels and contrast being among those. In my case this set will have to be in a brightly lit room - most of the time - and be used for a substantial amount of gaming and casual watching. Hence my current plasma's simply do not work in this location. The viewing distance is rather short as well - anywhere from 6-9 ft for almost all viewing. Hence my decision to go to a high res lcd. (I can see SDE on almost all plasmas at these distances)

SO some thoughts on the Sammy - which apply to both the 95 and 96 series. Although I did find the 96 to be tad better. My biggest gripe with the Sammy (1080p issues & 1:1 mapping aside) were the black and contrast levels. In multiple viewing situations, using multiple feeds - I simply could not get the sammy to display the black levels of other sets(Sony/JVC). AT first I was describing this as kindda of a purplish haze over the set. But that haze notion alludes to picture clarity issues that are not true. A better description would be akin to placing a ND filter over the lens of a camera, the ND filter having just the slightest hint of deep red/purple tones to it. Not obvious - very, very slight. What happens with the Sammy when you get out of vivid and try to calibrate is that the balcks become the darkest, deepest purplish color. Really easy to see if next to a plasma (pioneer for instance) or next to a tweaked Sony/JVC. Another way to describe this would be if you ever have pulled out dark navy blue pants in the AM and thought they were black. In certain lights you KNOW they are blue - however most lighting makes them appear as black - even when having a black pair of pants next to them. Imagine that same scenario with the deppest of navy blue having just a hint of red/purple to it. Now when compared to the black pants - you can see that they are not black because of the hue associated.

That is exactly what I have seen over and over again on the Sammy and I have not been able to calibrate to get rid of it. This also affects the white levels. Instead of getting crisp/clean whites - there is just the notion of some "dinginess" happening. Upon close inspection - it is that darkening and purplish hue - very, very faint that gives the overall impression of the whites not being quite as clean. Again, put this next to a tweaked Sony and it is clear as a bell. You can use the Universal logo sequence on the HD A1 movies playback to test this out. The background of starts shows a midnight sky with the ever present purplish tine and the white lettering is not quite as white as the Sony. What does appear at first glance is the way the colors just "pop" on the Samsung, and it takes a substantial amount of tweaking the Sony to get near the same result.

In every instance i have seen these next to each other, I have initially been drawn to the Samsung. The colors pop, the image is 3 d like and the display aesthetics are (IMHO) light years better than the Sony. It is with further watching that you start to realize the picture is over saturated etc and dial it down. Now you start playing and watching both sets and the black levels/contrast and detail in shadow area's start to be differentiated between the two sets.

Both are equally bad/good at SD. Pick your poison And without tweaking the Sony the picture appears to pop more with the Samsung, in most settings. Once you adjust the white levels with the Sony - you naturally are drawn to the Sony as have a "cleaner" pq.

For me - I can not get over the purplish issues with the Sammy. While it has more ability to tweak than the JVC - it does not have the same level as the Sony. It would be worthwhile to ensure the 2500 from Sony does not lose this tweaking capability - 'cause then both might be closer in PQ capability.

Yea...I am looking for a new set. Right now it is either the SOny XBR something or waiting the 2500. Then of course by the time either of these ship - we have the Sharps and the 7 series from Olevia to muddy the waters.

If I can be assure of getting one of the sony's in the next couple of weeks - just might pull the trigger. If I have to wait - might as well check out the next stuff from Sharp and Olevia. I say that today - but by Monday might just bite the bullet and get something!!! The XBR2 and paint the darned ugly silver frame black!

Therese
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post #200 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 01:07 PM
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Yea...I am looking for a new set. Right now it is either the SOny XBR something or waiting the 2500. If I can be assure of getting one of the sony's in the next couple of weeks - just might pull the trigger. If I have to wait - might as well check out the next stuff from Sharp and Olevia. I say that today - but by Monday might just bite the bullet and get something!!! The XBR2 and paint the darned ugly silver frame black!

Therese

Wow Therese, you sound like you have a self-imposed deadline of early September. You wouldn't happen to be, I don't know, an NFL fan? That's the only 'event' happening in two weeks that would make someone settle for what's available now (which will arrive in time for NFL kickoff) versus what's coming down the road. I would also post your three previous and very informative posts on the respective JVC FH/FN97 and Samsung 40/4696 threads. Spread the wealth of your opinion and research to where they will be read the most.

I'm coming from a 27" SD Trinitron set and was sold on the JVC models until it was revealed they didn't accept 1080p. My head tells me the Sony XBR2 or the 2500 sets are the way to go but I'm not exactly the tweaker-type that spends hours adjusting pictures. At the moment (and this could change overnight! ) my heart is taken by the Samsung 40/4695's (a) aesthetics (it sure looks purty), (b) size (going from 27" SD to 40" or 46" 16:9 will double my viewing are and blow my mind), (c) PIP (been watching TV/gaming on PIP for years now - no other 1080p accepting LCD on the market offers PIP, only TV's that display it but don't accept it) and (d) price (through online deals I can get a Sammy 4695 for the price of a 40" XBR2). I know all about the 4095's lack of 1:1 pixel mapping, "purplish" blacks (which I've yet to see on the 4095 and 4695 models I'm looking at) and minimal amount of tweaking options. Would you say a person like me, coming from a lifetime of SD viewing/gaming with little to no interest in computer applications, would be as impressed and happy with the Sammy 1080p LCD's as I'd be with the Sony XBR2's? Or am I going to wake up two or three years down the road, look at the Sammy 40/4695 laying next to me and say to myself 'what was J-Lo thinking?'... Basically I'm asking you to talk me out of going the Sammy 1080p route by either going with current (or coming soon) Sony 1080p sets or waiting a little longer for the Sharp and Olevia offerings. I'd love to have PIP on a 1080p set or go from a 27" CRT to a 46" 16:9 screen, but excellent PQ (not just now but 3-5 years from now) is my overwhelming concern. PS3, Blue-Ray and HD-DVD (or whoever is left of the last two after the format war, or an entirely new technology not out yet) will probably be my main source of 1080p content. And who knows, maybe five years from now I'll be comfortable enough with computers to learn how to use them!

I swear that buying my parents' home or selling/buying cars was a lot easier than getting a freaking HDTV set. I'm not the type that upgrades his TV every few years, I want to buy a 1080p LCD and be done thinking about it until it dies and it's time to buy a new one. Ohh, the headaches!
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Thanks for the detailed review. I'm wondering what you mean by "at 2-3 ft the experience was not as pleasant". Were there problems with the text that were evident only when looking from a short distance? Doesn't it look just like it would on an LCD computer monitor?

Glad I'm not the only one! Yes, Therese, could you expand on this a bit? Not as pleasant meaning pleasant, but just not as, or uhhhh not pleasant? The reason I think we're both asking is that I can practically put my nose up to my laptop uxga screen and it looks crisp and clear. I can easily get within 1/2 the diagonal dimension, so for a 46" that'd be 2 ft or less.

lcd1080: no, it's not good news that hdmi is better than vga! I'll be using vga (laptop, that's all I have). What would be good news is for vga to be just as awesome as hdmi. btw... I saw the listing for the 40v2500 on belmont and there's one in laurel... I'm very tempted to just pre-order... I'm almost certainly going to get this set.
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Wow Therese, you sound like you have a self-imposed deadline of early September. You wouldn't happen to be, I don't know, an NFL fan? ......

Would you say a person like me, coming from a lifetime of SD viewing/gaming with little to no interest in computer applications, would be as impressed and happy with the Sammy 1080p LCD's as I'd be with the Sony XBR2's?

Yep a NFL fan and I want a set to watch it in all it's glory Also am just tired of waiting. I actually have tried...just appear to be unlucky!

Dad - For your purposes - no HTPC, NO outboard processor in the future and the ability to just spend about 30 minutes or so dialing in the Samsung. You WILL be happy!

For the price - you will be grinning ear to ear at how wonderful the HD stuff looks and how BIG your screen is and how much $$$ is left in your wallet! Realize that all of these displays are really quite stellar. We are talking the last 10% of PQ difference. And some sources it is so close that you would be hard pressed to really tell the difference. I assure you Sammy does not have the blackest of blacks - but you would really have to have the right lighting situation, compare it to something else and have the right material to tell. Coming from your 27" - the biggest hurdle you face is SD TV. If you have viewed these sets in the BM stores and can live with what you see - it will be better when you get home. ALthough you will find yourself drawn to watching HD whenever possible and then you will really appreciate how NOT HD like Sd stuff is.

I tend to be drawn to value, and that is factored by my perceived value.If you like the looks of the set (the Sammy is gorgeous), the PQ (Sammy is no slouch and very close to Sony and better than Sony if you do not spend the time to really tweak the Sony), inputs and features (Sammy accepts 1080p - so Blu ray, Ps3 you will be okay on; also has some features for you to dial down the vivid mode and calibrate - and has PIP) then go for it. Price wise you will get a bigger set than the XBR - for me - if I had to choose a 46 over a 40 (and seating distance was a non issue) with sets with very close PQ - $$$$ being even - my perceived value would be in the bigger set with similar PQ and better aesthetics.

What are you WAITING for - order it already man - you will love it

Therese
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In every instance i have seen these next to each other, I have initially been drawn to the Samsung. The colors pop, the image is 3 d like and the display aesthetics are (IMHO) light years better than the Sony...

Yea...I am looking for a new set. Right now it is either the SOny XBR something or waiting the 2500. Then of course by the time either of these ship - we have the Sharps and the 7 series from Olevia to muddy the waters.
Therese

That was my experience also. When I walked into a BB, the Samsung 4095DX got my attention... the image "popped". But the XBR2 happened to be showing some bad source off an hd-dvd... later I got wow effects watching King Kong and some flower thing. As for aesthetics... I agree... except for the piano black... some like and some don't -- I don't want a shiny bezel. Finally, 1-1 is important to me, so the Samsung's are a no-go.

I know off-topic, but which Sharps? I've read page after page of that thread and I can't figure out what's being released with what specs... some 42 or whatver size isn't even supposed to have the same panel as other's... and with the 37D90U almost nowhere to be found, I just wonder about Sharp. Are there models in the 40+" range you're considering that I can follow-up on ? And Olevias?
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I know off-topic, but which Sharps? I've read page after page of that thread and I can't figure out what's being released with what specs... some 42 or whatver size isn't even supposed to have the same panel as other's... and with the 37D90U almost nowhere to be found, I just wonder about Sharp. Are there models in the 40+" range you're considering that I can follow-up on ? And Olevias?

Not completely off topic as those that awaiting the Sony 2500 - due to the delay - would also likely consider the competative space.

In the sharp 2006 aquos thread post #1635. Mark Rubin mentions 3 new Sharp panels. Post # 1655 also by Mark give details on the specs. The post with pricing and PDF's is long since gone - but the 46 was around $3500 and the 52 was around $4500.(All MSRP) The 42 uses last years panel and different processing. Not in the same ball park.

You need to google the syntax olevia 1080p 7 series. It is supposed to use the HQV chip set and there is some info on the new Syntax thread. These models are supposed to have some of the best procesing - who's panel they are using even the tech at Syntax doesn't know and they are slated to be pretty pricey;. I.E.more than the Sammy and Sony.

For me - I am tired of waiting for the perfect set.(And just want one that works!) I am sure that whatever I buy, whenever I buy... it will be outdated, outmoded and out featured about 30 days later. Right in line with standard BM return policies Do not want to miss the football season waiting for that "slightly" better set. Want to enjoy what we are supposed to be doing with these sets - watching killer film/video etc.

Therese
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post #205 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 06:16 PM
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Thanks! The 42" is what I'd have wanted (only about 6.5 to 7 feet or so viewing distance). Out of curiosity I'll look up those posts. I also agree about the waiting... am decided on the 40V2500 (barring some negative surprise)... and itching to pre-order, but will hold out till the first ones ship. But enough is enough.

[ In the meantime, I'm going to buy a tv stand... also a ridiculous endeavor... no common sense... I want _airflow_ and simple functionality. ]
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post #206 of 5357 Old 08-26-2006, 08:29 PM
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In the meantime, I'm going to buy a tv stand... also a ridiculous endeavor... no common sense... I want _airflow_ and simple functionality.

Here's my pick for simple functionality (wheels and no doors) + airflow (very open, like floating on air). I haven't ordered this stand yet but I've pretty much made up my mind...

Typo in picture, is actually the PL131 shown in picture, NOT the PL130:


Other variants exist, go with the PL132 if you need more shelving for components:



I'm still trying to decide between the PL131 and PL132 though. The deciding factor is the height. I'm trying to plan ahead for the future upgrades to 46" - 50"+ flat panels and must consider where my eyes will be centered.

The measurements in photo below were made for the 46 Sony XBR3. Sony XBR3 + PL131 measurements are on the right. XBR3 + PL132 measurements are on the left. (I factored in the 2.41 Sony stand):
http://neo-geo.com/personal/furniture/height.jpg

The pink stickers on the measuring tapes represent the top and bottom of the TV, the orange sticker is the center of the TV. On my sofa with 16.5 seat height the PL131 is ideal, but on ALL other furniture in the living room the PL132 is better. I may not always keep this TV sofa though, so I'm thinking the PL132 would be best in the long run. Then again, if the TV is 50 or greater then the shorter PL131 would be more appropriate.
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post #207 of 5357 Old 08-27-2006, 04:26 AM
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Therese,
I just saw that Mitsu is releasing a new tv, the LT-46231, around the same time as the v2500. Do you know how it should compare to the Sony? It showed an MSRP of 4200, which puts it just below the 46 XBR2's. I have a Mitsu now and the only complaint, other than old tech, is the depth. At almost 30 inches it is a beast.

NEO-GEO
Those stands would be perfect if the center channel could be in the center, or am I being nieve. My center is huge and I am still unsure what to do with it though. Thought about setting it on top of whatever stand I get, not sure how that will work yet though. Turock
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post #208 of 5357 Old 08-27-2006, 10:11 AM
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Neo Geo: I like, simple and functional, except... I'd rather not have glass. If it was up to me, it'd be some mesh to allow better airflow (for the shelves) and the top just some solid metal.

This is also interesting: http://www.sanus.com/cgi-bin/web_sto...d=772143_10725 ... saw on another thread... like wall mounting without a wall mount... but expensive and then the space under is mostly wasted (don't like the smaller and smaller shelves underneath). I should start a new thread for stands (should probably search first though ).
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post #209 of 5357 Old 08-27-2006, 11:53 AM
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I was able to break away and spend a little time looking at TVs at the Circuit City at Union Square here in Manhattan. I spent a good deal of time fiddling with the 46" XBR2. The picture on the SONY SXRD demo loop was fabulous (of course). Lots of detail in slow moving, brightly lit shots. I then changed the input to what they claimed was ESPN HD. The signal was incredibly degraded and the XBR2 was much less forgiving than some of the other TVs nearby (notably, the Panasonic 42' plasma). Proof of garbage-in/garbage-out? Yes. But I was hoping for a little better picture with a low quality signal. However, the poor picture with poor signal did not scare me at all. It just confirmed for me the fact that people setting things up at Circuit City have no clue what they're doing. With a good signal, my impression was the the XBR2 had the best picture on the floor (LCD or Plasma). I can't wait to see the V2500s.

James (one of the managers) told me that they're expecting the V2500s in the first week or two of September (great news if it's true, but he could have just been blowing smoke). He wouldn't say how much they'd be selling them for, but he did imply it wouldn't be much lower than the MSRP.
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post #210 of 5357 Old 08-27-2006, 12:21 PM
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Considering all the talk about how the XBR2 handles poor signals, can anyone comment on the quality of Dish Network feeds? I'm planning to get their dual tuner HD-DVR once my 40V2500 is delivered.

Also, will the feed be channel dependent or will all be the same? Don't even really know what to ask here, help me out with what to expect...
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