Sony 40" KDL-40V2500 and 46" KDL-46V2500 HDTV Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Sony's new lightweight 1080p LCDs, the 40" KDL-40V2500 and 46" KDL-46V2500 will be available in September.
http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KDL_40V....html?tag=coco
The 40V2500 has several major advantages that no other LCD yet offers:

1. The 40V2500 is the first lightweight 40" LCD that appears to support a PC input on the HDMI port at 1920x1080 with 1:1 pixel mapping and no overscan. The competition supports PC input only on the VGA port.
2. The 40V2500 weighs 22 pounds less than the glass encumbered 40KDL-XBR2.
3. The 40V2500's width is 4.7 inches less than the 40KDL-XBR2.
4. The 40V2500 is $500 less expensive than the 40XBR2.

The only downside that I see for the 40V2500 and 46V2500 is their apparent lack of the Digital Reality Creation Multi-function v2.5 video processing circuit found in the KDL-40XBR2 and KDL-46XBR2.

For more information please see:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9607046
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post #2 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 06:27 PM
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LCD1080: thanks for starting this thread! I've been on the XBR2/3 thread but no one seems interested in this other 1080p, which as you (and I've) pointed out has distinct advantages.

For me, it's not about price (well up to a point). I've waited long for a 1080p and would pay out the extra for the best. I'm still back and forth between the V2500 and XBR2... one moment I think I'll go for the XBR2, then I think of how _heavy_ it is at nearly 80 lbs for the 40"! And how _wide_ it is with those side speakers! And I don't like the pictures of the grey bezel so would want to buy the replaceable "velvet black" one -- but for an extra $300?!! I'm even wondering... I could get a 46" V2500 for about the cost of a 40" XBR2 and at about the same width and weight.

Since the panels are the same, the only significant difference that we know of, is the XBR2 has DRC 2.5 with Bravia Pro processing vs. just Bravia for the V2500. Since DRC doesn't work with 1080p, there's no difference there. The question, for me, is what it _really_ does for 1080i and 720p and does that override the advantages of the V2500. If DRC2.5 is mostly just something to position the XBR's top-of-the-line but in practice isn't that big a deal, then the V2500 makes more sense to me. On a UK forum (where the XBR or X series is available) I get the impression it gets turned down and may not be that useful... but I don't know for sure.

I'll be checking back... (btw, I'm in MD too... outside DC).
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post #3 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 06:53 PM
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jezz it took awhile but these tv's finally have a thread.

whats with this lightweight stuff, the xbr2/3 now show 77lbs, i don't know if that is correct or what size that is for but is lighter than before
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post #4 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

LCD1080: thanks for starting this thread! I've been on the XBR2/3 thread but no one seems interested in this other 1080p, which as you (and I've) pointed out has distinct advantages.

The funny thing is that these small and light LCDs totally escaped my attention until today even though I've been to the XBR2/3 thread dozens of times. Perhaps others are just now becoming aware of what they have to offer.
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... I'm still back and forth between the V2500 and XBR2... one moment I think I'll go for the XBR2, then I think of how _heavy_ it is at nearly 80 lbs for the 40"! And how _wide_ it is with those side speakers! And I don't like the pictures of the grey bezel so would want to buy the replaceable "velvet black" one -- but for an extra $300?!!

I was just trying to rationalize the extra width and weight of the XBR2 vs. the V2500 and I just can't do it. I intend to place my LCD on a roller cart against a wall next to my desk. Rolling around the extra weight of the XBR2 every day doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

The question, for me, is what (DRC2.5) _really_ does for 1080i and 720p and does that override the advantages of the V2500. If DRC2.5 is mostly just something to position the XBR's top-of-the-line but in practice isn't that big a deal, then the V2500 makes more sense to me. On a UK forum (where the XBR or X series is available) I get the impression it gets turned down and may not be that useful... but I don't know for sure.

Well we should be able to see DRC2.5 in action fairly soon because the Sony site is saying that the 40XBR2 will be available on August 1 (just a week away!).
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...(btw, I'm in MD too... outside DC).

Yup I moved from Crystal City just outside DC last year. It was getting too darn expensive!
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post #5 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 07:53 PM
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Without DRC, I take it analog SD will look like it does on the current S2000 models? How do those look? I wonder how scaling to 1080p vs 720p will affect the outcome?

I want Ed on DVD/Blu-ray!
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post #6 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 08:03 PM
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Hey MUGEN: still waiting for your xbr review -- hope you have it ordered I see the 77 lbs, but that's vs. 55 lbs (both w/ stands) for the V2500... an extra 22 lbs. So an extra 40% increase in weight for what... ostentatious floating glass and a 40" width the size of a 46 DV2500 width? DRC 2.5? And the silver on the XBR2 looks crappy, imho, in pictures, so along with a $500 price difference, there's an extra $300 for piano black or an interchangeable bezel. Comparing the pluses and minuses, these V2500's, that have gone unnoticed because of the flashier XBR's, have to be taken seriously.

LCD1080: I'll keep visiting the thread so we can keep it going. I figure if the XBR's are coming out beginning of Aug, the V2500's may be beginning of Sept -- right after labor day would be an ideal buy time for me too.
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post #7 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUGEN View Post

...whats with this lightweight stuff, the xbr2/3 now show 77lbs, i don't know if that is correct or what size that is for but is lighter than before

Yes the trend seems to be to shave a few pounds off the new generation of LCDs. That's not limited to Sony either, the new Samsung LN-S4095D is over 6 pounds lighter than its predecessor, the LN-S4092D.
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post #8 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

LCD1080:...I figure if the XBR's are coming out beginning of Aug, the V2500's may be beginning of Sept -- right after labor day would be an ideal buy time for me too.

Well the XBR2 and 3 were originally scheduled for September so with any luck the V2500's also will be here sometime in August.
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post #9 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 08:32 PM
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...to isolate and measure what DCR 2.5 can do.

Anybody know exactly what it is *supposed* to do?

I've heard that it improves the appearance of SD. If so, the XBR2/3 advantage will certainly erode over the next few years as SD dies.

Does it help with rapid motion?

Does it help with highly compressed signals?

Does it reduce noise without compromising sharpness?

Will it make my bed?

I hope somewhere else out there knows more about this than me. Otherwise I am spending too much time hanging around these forums waiting out the new 40/46" 1080p sets from Sony, JVC, Samsung and Sharp.
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post #10 of 5357 Old 07-22-2006, 10:39 PM
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Link to UK forum thread on their Bravia X series (similar to our new XBR):
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...31883&page=173
snip: "If you were watching SD not from your PC you could use DRC but personally I dont really like what it does to the image, it seems to be a bit of a gimmick IMO."

This is the big question we need to find out: how useful is drc 2.5 and how will the XBR, which has it, compare to the V2500 in this regard?
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post #11 of 5357 Old 07-23-2006, 10:25 AM
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the europe 46x2000 has drc 2.0, you can't compare this model to the us model(xbr2/3).
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post #12 of 5357 Old 07-25-2006, 11:30 AM
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My decision on these models also seems to hinge on the functionality of DRC v 2.5. I've got a cabinet in which I can fit the 46v2500 or the 40xbr2/3, but not the 46xbr2/3. I'd love to have the bigger screen, but if the Bravia engine pro and drc v 2.5 offer significant improvements in image quality, i'm willing to go with the smaller screen, particulalry if it offers big improvements on SD content, which i think I will still be watching quite a bit of.

One question - is the SD image on the v2500 models likely to be the same as the current s2000?
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post #13 of 5357 Old 07-25-2006, 12:21 PM
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So this DRC thing that the v2500 lacks is primarly for providing better picture quality for SD???
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post #14 of 5357 Old 07-25-2006, 12:53 PM
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Is drc2.5 the only advantage that the xbr models have? I remember reading some where that the xbr models also have better picture quality and that they have 13000:1 contrast ratio compared to 10000:1 for the non xbr models.
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post #15 of 5357 Old 07-25-2006, 12:57 PM
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Unlike previous DRCs, v2.5 also enhances 720p and 1080i.

One question I have is whether that means the SD image is the same as that with 2.0?

CROPPED < OAR < OPEN MATTE -- OOOOH I SAID IT!
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post #16 of 5357 Old 07-26-2006, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PantsAreGood View Post

Is drc2.5 the only advantage that the xbr models have? I remember reading some where that the xbr models also have better picture quality and that they have 13000:1 contrast ratio compared to 10000:1 for the non xbr models.

contrast ratio is really 10 000:1 on these ???!!! or its a typo
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post #17 of 5357 Old 07-26-2006, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by delusive1 View Post

contrast ratio is really 10 000:1 on these ???!!! or its a typo

typo, more like 1300:1
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post #18 of 5357 Old 07-26-2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD1080 View Post


1. The 40V2500 is the first lightweight 40" LCD that appears to support a PC input on the HDMI port at 1920x1080 with 1:1 pixel mapping and no overscan. The competition supports PC input only on the VGA port.

Are we sure of this, also are you saying that the XBR2/3 will not do this. Are there any other panels that do? If so which ones do, ie the Westinghouse (monitor that does I think).
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post #19 of 5357 Old 07-26-2006, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TommyboyCAN View Post

Are we sure of this, also are you saying that the XBR2/3 will not do this. Are there any other panels that do? If so which ones do, ie the Westinghouse (monitor that does I think).

we don't know if these models will do this but we already know the xbr2/3 should.
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post #20 of 5357 Old 07-26-2006, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyboyCAN View Post

Are we sure of this, also are you saying that the XBR2/3 will not do this. Are there any other panels that do? If so which ones do, ie the Westinghouse (monitor that does I think).

The European version of the KDL-46XBR2 provides for a PC input with 1:1 pixel mapping and no overscan on HDMI according to post #2288 in the UK AVS forum. This capability applies with the PC being set at 1920x1080:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...36#post3159636
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post #21 of 5357 Old 07-26-2006, 02:21 PM
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Thanks for the link LCD1080.

Thats awesome and good to know, no I agree with you if 2.5 is no good the 46V2500 is the set for me, since I can fit the 46" in the space of the 40 XBR2.

Now its just left to see what these look like in store.
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post #22 of 5357 Old 07-26-2006, 07:35 PM
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My understanding -- forget where I read it -- is that the screen on the v2500 is the same as on the XBR2/3. For 1080p, there should be no difference. The question is what impact drc 2.5 has on 1080i, 720p etc. (and if there are any other limitations/gotcha's on the v2500's). Like other's here, the 46XBR is just too wide... so I can get a 40XBR or 46V2500. I guess we'll get some early reviews in a few weeks for the XBR's.
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post #23 of 5357 Old 07-26-2006, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

I guess we'll get some early reviews in a few weeks for the XBR's.

With any luck we'll get some reviews even sooner than that. The XBR2's are available on or about next Tuesday!
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post #24 of 5357 Old 07-27-2006, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsandvb View Post

Without DRC, I take it analog SD will look like it does on the current S2000 models? How do those look? I wonder how scaling to 1080p vs 720p will affect the outcome?

SD on the S2000 models looks pretty good. It really depends on the quality of the SD channel. Some look really good, others look not so good.
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post #25 of 5357 Old 07-27-2006, 10:19 AM
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Will the V2500 series have the WCG-CCFL like the XBR's?
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post #26 of 5357 Old 07-27-2006, 10:43 AM
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Nascar,

I believe so. - Will have WCG-CCFL
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post #27 of 5357 Old 07-29-2006, 09:20 AM
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Just to bump this thread... I was in BB the other day and I REALLY liked the current 720p 40XBR1... I thought it had the best looking style and the pq was great. I was thinking how it'd be ideal if it was 1080p. And of course, that's what I'm thinking with the new V2500's. In fact, from the sonystyle pictures, I prefer the V2500's stand... the XBR1's round stand was the only thing I didn't care for.

Anyway, if these V2500's are as good as the current XBR1's (which most everyone agrees are great), but with 1080p, then that alone makes them top contenders among any of the current or newly arriving1080p's. Of course they're getting overlooked it seems by those focused on the premium XBR2/3's. However, they should be about $500 cheaper (based on the earliest estimated prices for the models), 25 lbs lighter, and narrower with the more sensible space saving bottom speakers. What's not to like?

So what makes the XBR2/3's the premium models and is getting them all the attention? Piano black for the 3's? I _don't_ want shiny black. That leaves the 2's. But I don't care much for the silver in the pictures -- looks splotchy or checkered. But, these bezels can be replaced... and the velvet black (and maybe arctic white to blend w/ a white wall) look interesting... or not... at $300! I'm sure I'd want a replacement bezel... but that would likely make an XBR2 $800 more than the V2500... that's a lot of money... and not just the money but an uncomfortable sense of frivolous overspending.

Floating glass? What's its purpose -- I'm not against but don't really get it (guess will have to see in person)... does it give some "floating' effect? What if it gets tiresome? Or looks outdated in a year or so? What if it gets broken... i.e. moving it around or hitting the side, might it chip? In a year, will I say to myself... I'm sooo glad I paid an extra $500 for that floating glass and $300 for a black bezel?

Nevertheless, I'm not dissing the XBR's... I have printouts of the models up on my wall, and the XBR2 with velvet black does look good (and I'm still considering)... as does the V2500. So, it'll come down to this drc 2.5 and any possible gotcha's. Right now though, I'm leaning a little further to the V2500.

Oh yeah (I'm just shooting the breeze till we have something useful to talk about)... I was also thinking... technology is changing quickly... so it might make more sense to not overspend now. I'm done waiting for a 1080p though and am definitely buying one of these sony's... but if the V2500's are about as fantastic as the XBR2/3's, why splurge on pinstripes and detailing (floating glass and bezels) when other incredible models will be coming along in a few years? The cleaner, simpler, lighter and narrower V2500 would make a good 2nd set or hand-over to a kid for their ps3/xbox.

Well, I'll try to keep entertaining w/ my thoughts for oh... some more weeks to go
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post #28 of 5357 Old 07-29-2006, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

Nevertheless, I'm not dissing the XBR's... I have printouts of the models up on my wall, and the XBR2 with velvet black does look good (and I'm still considering)... as does the V2500. So, it'll come down to this drc 2.5 and any possible gotcha's. Right now though, I'm leaning a little further to the V2500.

Hey rconn-

Great post. You pretty much summed up my situation and I'll be waiting to see the V2500 in person to see how well it handles SD. Due to my space (width) considerations I'll be deciding between the 46" V2500 or the 40" XBR2. I love the SXRD, but I'd prefer something both thinner and with a greater viewable angle due to my particular setup.
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post #29 of 5357 Old 07-29-2006, 08:14 PM
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do we know the MSRPs of these sets? if not, can anyone give an estimate?
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post #30 of 5357 Old 07-30-2006, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by fireballz View Post

do we know the MSRPs of these sets? if not, can anyone give an estimate?

Probably $3000 for the 40" and $3800 for the 46" as that would put it right in between the S2000 and the XBR2.
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