Official Sony 40",46" XBR2, XBR3 - Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post

Great thread, guys. I have been following it since day one in preparation for my sample 46" XBR2 to arrive for evaluation. I was hoping some of you would help me summarize a couple of issues end users are having.

First, for those of you who see macroblocking (similar to what AndrewScott reported) during transitions, are there any sources and/or input resolutions where you do not see the macroblocking?

Second, there is a known issue with these units at 480i/p over HDMI, as reported by Tom Norton of Ultimate A/V.



For those of you who are not completely satisfied with the XBR2's performance on SD material, were you using HDMI, Component or something else?

Chase

Not sure what Tom Norton means in the review when he says:
"The component response was also good out to the maximum frequencies required for 480i (6.75MHz) and 480p (13.5MHz). But with an HDMI link there was no response at these respective frequencies at 480i or 480p with HDMI. While this was disappointing, most users are unlikely to use the HDMI inputs for 480i/p sources."
I have my STB connected to the XBR2's HDMI input using a DVI to HDMI cable( DVI out no HDMI) and it's set to "auto DVI" which is the pass through mode so it just passes the signal to my XBR2 without any scaling. SD programming is actually very good and there are lots of 480i channels that we watch. So I guess I don't understand what he is implying when he makes that statement. Can anyone explain?

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post #542 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tpuzio View Post

I have no idea why Sony even bothered with the XBR2.

They made the XBR2 for people that don't want a shiny reflective black border around their screen. Also to have the option to change the bezel color.
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post #543 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luna5 View Post

Not sure what Tom Norton means in the review when he says:
"The component response was also good out to the maximum frequencies required for 480i (6.75MHz) and 480p (13.5MHz). But with an HDMI link there was no response at these respective frequencies at 480i or 480p with HDMI. While this was disappointing, most users are unlikely to use the HDMI inputs for 480i/p sources."
I have my STB connected to the XBR2's HDMI input using a DVI to HDMI cable( DVI out no HDMI) and it's set to "auto DVI" which is the pass through mode so it just passes the signal to my XBR2 without any scaling. SD programming is actually very good and there are lots of 480i channels that we watch. So I guess I don't understand what he is implying when he makes that statement. Can anyone explain?

I've been wondering the same thing. Does he mean that the 480i/480p signals experience a significant falloff prior to reaching these max frequencies? And if so, where does the falloff actually begin?

If the response extends out close the max, a little falloff may not affect the picture quality very much. But if there is a significant falloff, it would result in a comparatively softer picture.

It sure would have been nice if he had documented where the falloff begins (3Mhz, for example) to enable the reader to quantify the possible impact on the picture..
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post #544 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yah-E View Post

Gentlemen, I too joined the Sony KDL-46XBR2 club recently (2 days ago)! I'm pretty excited to have my new toy. Everything is set up and things look great! Here are what's hooked up/through to my TV:

Digital Cable: Cox
Connection: HDMI-to-DVI
Power Conditioner: Monster Home Theatre Reference HTS-3600 MKII PowerCenter
DVD Player: Sony DVP-NS725P
A/V Receiver: Pioneer VSX-D912
Wall Mount: Sanus VMPLb

Now, I'm not an A/V guru nor do I possess "expert" vision to see all the impurities of HDTV, but I am excited to have my HDTV for this football season! My configuration for my TV are the following:

Picture Mode: Vivid (modified)
Backlight: Max ( I did nothing)
Picture: Max (I did nothing)
Brightness: 65 (I increased it)
Color: 35 (I decreased it)
Hue: 0 (I did nothing)
Color Temp: Cool (I did nothing)
Sharpness: 60 (I increased it)
Noise Reduction: Auto (I did nothing)
DRC Mode: Mode 1 (I did nothing)
DRC Palette: (I did nothing)

Any suggestions or questions welcomed!


See the settings posted above yours. They will provide a much more accurate picture. Your current settings sound like they might leads to headaches and nausea
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post #545 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 11:36 AM
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After a few weeks of comparing and research I purchased a 46 XBR2, I should be receiving it within a week. I am learning about HDTV and it's nuances but I have a question;

I assume that the XBR2 as well as most all HDTV's upscale the source signal to their native resolution (1080p). Most newer DVD players also upscale the signal. This seems redundant to me. In the case of the XBR2, will the upscaling capability be as good as or better than a DVD player ($300 street price or less)? Or should I replace my 2 year old DVD player (480i) with a new one for an optimal picture.

Thanks for your insight.
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post #546 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreleft View Post

After a few weeks of comparing and research I purchased a 46 XBR2, I should be receiving it within a week. I am learning about HDTV and it's nuances but I have a question;

I assume that the XBR2 as well as most all HDTV's upscale the source signal to their native resolution (1080p). Most newer DVD players also upscale the signal. This seems redundant to me. In the case of the XBR2, will the upscaling capability be as good as or better than a DVD player ($300 street price or less)? Or should I replace my 2 year old DVD player (480i) with a new one for an optimal picture.

Thanks for your insight.

Ideally you would want a DVD player that can upscale to 1080i over HDMI (like the Panasonic DVD-S97 (or S77) with a decent FAROUDJA chip). The XBR2 loves receiving a 1080i signal.
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post #547 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gad Zookz View Post

. . . Though I do not get as good results with SD TV, setting my Motorola 6412 cable box to 480p gives me acceptable SD on many channels. . . . .

I have the same STB. When you set it to deliver 480p, doesn't that then send all signals, including 720 & 1080, to the TV as 480p? So, are you then resetting the box when you watch HD?
I've looked for a way to send the signals raw to the TV to let the XBR scale/deinterlace but have had no luck. (You can hook the cable coax directly to the XBR but then several stations, such as Discovery HD, are not accessable.) Is "pass through" not an option with the 6412?
Sounds like you are also enjoying the XBR2. I'm looking forward to kickoff tonignt!

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post #548 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpedit View Post

I have the same STB. When you set it to deliver 480p, doesn't that then send all signals, including 720 & 1080, to the TV as 480p? So, are you then resetting the box when you watch HD?
I've looked for a way to send the signals raw to the TV to let the XBR scale/deinterlace but have had no luck. (You can hook the cable coax directly to the XBR but then several stations, such as Discovery HD, are not accessable.) Is "pass through" not an option with the 6412?
Sounds like you are also enjoying the XBR2. I'm looking forward to kickoff tonignt!

Byrne

The cable box has menu options for both SD and HD. The former gives you a choice between 480i and 480p; the latter between 720p and 1080i.

There is a cable out in addition to the usual suspects like HDMI and component but it is not a pass through because it outputs the channel to which the unit is tuned.

If hooked up to the XBR2 and set at SD 480i, one would expect that the XBR2 is doing both the deinterlacing and upconversion. If set to 480p, it follows that the XBR2 is upconverting but the cable box is deinterlacing.

I find that setting the cable box to 480p gets better results on the whole. Digital channels tend to look the best but a number of analog stations look good as well. And then there are some that look dreadful.

We have 12 HD channels now and are getting more in November. On the whole though, I am quite satisfied with the SD so far so I have not bothered to try a direct cable feed yet.

Enjoy the game!

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post #549 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post

Great thread, guys. I have been following it since day one in preparation for my sample 46" XBR2 to arrive for evaluation. I was hoping some of you would help me summarize a couple of issues end users are having.

First, for those of you who see macroblocking (similar to what AndrewScott reported) during transitions, are there any sources and/or input resolutions where you do not see the macroblocking?

Second, there is a known issue with these units at 480i/p over HDMI, as reported by Tom Norton of Ultimate A/V.



For those of you who are not completely satisfied with the XBR2's performance on SD material, were you using HDMI, Component or something else?

Chase

I am using HDMI for 480i/p SD and am not having any problems with it. What types of bad things should be happening?

Never Fully Here
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post #550 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AzureKnight View Post

Someone had some major motion blur earlier (JugDish69 I believe) and it was due to having the Noise Reduction feature turned on.

I don't know if this will help but I thought I would bring it up.

Thanks, I pretty much have every "feature" turned off. I am using CarlosC's settings posted earlier in the thread. I've never really watched an LCD TV at length so I don't know if what I'm seeing is par for LCD technology.
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post #551 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 05:58 PM
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For all the XBR2/3 owners:

I just got my XBR3 40" and the screen is tilted back. I'm trying to get it perpendicular to the stand but i don't want to break it. I can't watch it like this.

Called customer support they don't know jack....anybody had the same problem when taking it out of the box?

THANKS
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post #552 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 06:42 PM
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I have just found 2 stuck pixels on my 46 XBR2. These were found by eye. Haven't done a Pixel test yet. Is this reason enough to be concerned or even to return the set?
Thanks in advance.

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post #553 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 06:54 PM
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Can some of you 46" owners please watch the Steelers game and give a PQ assessment? Sports are my deal maker/breaker, the more info the better. Thanks!
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post #554 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TASE17 View Post

For all the XBR2/3 owners:

I just got my XBR3 40" and the screen is tilted back. I'm trying to get it perpendicular to the stand but i don't want to break it. I can't watch it like this.

Called customer support they don't know jack....anybody had the same problem when taking it out of the box?

THANKS

You would think, for the price, we would get a stand that had some up & down and some back & forth but no dice.

Have you checked your own height? It may that , form your perspective, it just looks like it is tilted up.

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post #555 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 07:06 PM
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Does anyone know what BB does about Dead pixels?
The reason I ask is because I've spotted at least 2 dead pixels (they might be just stuck... but I can't tell) and I'm still within the 30 return policy. I haven't purchased the ridiculously expensive service plan they offer... but now... I think I just might (in case I get more pixel problems). I also read that the service plan offered by SonyStyle is a bit cheaper than BB. But what do they cover?
Thanks in advance for any opinions.

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post #556 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost24 View Post

I have just found 2 stuck pixels on my 46 XBR2. These were found by eye. Haven't done a Pixel test yet. Is this reason enough to be concerned or even to return the set?
Thanks in advance.

If it bugs you, then you ought to return it but be prepared for a fightt.

Although modern LCD manufacturing techniques allow bad pixel screens to be rejected earlier in the process, the QC and pricing relationship expects most buyers to accept some bad pixels.

Because of this, sales people have bootcamp training to resist exchanging these sets. Once, I got an IBM laptop with some bad pixels and I had to hold the salesman's head under water for 45 seconds, repeated 12 times, before he agreed to an exchange. My T-shirt got soaked.

If you want to exchange it, try to find another flaw where they are not so strongly programmed to resist.

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post #557 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 07:27 PM
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Thanks Gad Zooks!
Since I'm still within the return period I shouldn't have to explain much... but if it comes to that... I'll just bring up the episode you had at one point. See if I can get some respect!

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post #558 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost24 View Post

Thanks Gad Zooks!
Since I'm still within the return period I shouldn't have to explain much... but if it comes to that... I'll just bring up the episode you had at one point. See if I can get some respect!


Sounds like a plan.

I was within the 30 days too but that didn't help.

If they hear the BP words, they will go to town!

Good luck.

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post #559 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 07:33 PM
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Awesome...
So... I just don't mention the BP words.
Got it.
Thanks a ton!!

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post #560 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiredogs View Post

Can some of you 46" owners please watch the Steelers game and give a PQ assessment? Sports are my deal maker/breaker, the more info the better. Thanks!

HD Sports on the 46 are amazing football has the looking through the window effect. Now the Steelers - Miami game has issues but that is NBC not the TV. I was just on teh phone to my local NBC engineering dept and they have issues if they have a Harris mpeg2 decoder. They have serious focus issues that this tv really shows. So HD sports out of of this world on this TV. I am on Verizon Fios which is a great signal.
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post #561 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gad Zookz View Post

You would think, for the price, we would get a stand that had some up & down and some back & forth but no dice.

Have you checked your own height? It may that , form your perspective, it just looks like it is tilted up.

I'm so pissed right now it's not even funny. Tommorow I'm goign to the store to exchange it. It's not how I stand, the screen is just tilted like you would tilt a computer monitor.

The XBR2 at the SONY NYC store is right - perpendicular on the stand.

Anybody else have this problem? Please HELP
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post #562 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 07:49 PM
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Sorry TASE.
I wouldn't even think twice.
Return it as soon as you can.

Good luck.

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Check out my thread: Sony BRAVIA KDL46XBR2 - User Settings/calibration
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post #563 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TASE17 View Post

I'm so pissed right now it's not even funny. Tommorow I'm goign to the store to exchange it. It's not how I stand, the screen is just tilted like you would tilt a computer monitor.

The XBR2 at the SONY NYC store is right - perpendicular on the stand.

Anybody else have this problem? Please HELP

I was not not suggesting that you are short, only that your position, relative to the TV, might not be correct from where you are sitting. It sounds like your stand might be warped or something like that.

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post #564 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gad Zookz View Post

I was not not suggesting that you are short, only that your position, relative to the TV, might not be correct from where you are sitting. It sounds like your stand might be warped or something like that.

My stand is defected, it's pretty obvious when I look at it from any angle: front and sides. I compared it to the one in store and also to the crutchfield photo online and there's a big difference. It might be from shippng also.

I hope it's not going to take forever to get a new TV/stand.

On a side note, the phone support is just plain awwful...they have no clue about this new models.

I wonder if anybody else has this problem.
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post #565 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TASE17 View Post

My stand is defected, it's pretty obvious when I look at it from any angle: front and sides. I compared it to the one in store and also to the crutchfield photo online and there's a big difference. It might be from shippng also.

I hope it's not going to take forever to get a new TV/stand.

On a side note, the phone support is just plain awwful...they have no clue about this new models.

I wonder if anybody else has this problem.

How's the picture quality?

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post #566 of 3416 Old 09-07-2006, 10:47 PM
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hey Ghost 24, don't use the BP words. Just tilt your stand and take it back !
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post #567 of 3416 Old 09-08-2006, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gad Zookz View Post

How's the picture quality?

The PQ is good, I'm really impressed with the HD image. SD looks acceptable to me, but maybe because I'm not too picky. I didn't really play with the settings because I was/am caught up with the tilted screen, but overall the first impression is good. The NFL game in HD looked amazing last night. Also I only connected the cable box and not my OPPO DVD, because I'll exchange the TV.

The design for the XBR3 is great, so much better than the XBR2 IMO; I love the piano look: not much glare, but mine has a little because the screen is tilted backwards.

I hope it will not be a hustle to exchange my TV and get the new one on time. How lucky can I be to get a damaged TV? The online specialist last night told me to exchange it because the screen should not be like that...at least he was honest.

I'll post pictures tonight, but I need to know how.
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post #568 of 3416 Old 09-08-2006, 06:52 AM
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The opening NFL game last night was certainly watchable but disappointing. Static shots were stellar but during many moving sequences, especially camera pans, the image was broken up into what folks have refered to as tiling or pixelation. This was most notable when players were jogging back to the huddle.
I've been assuming this was macroblocking, caused by a poor signal (low bit rate of transmission). I assumed this might because these signals originate at local stations or perhaps my cable company (Comcast) doesn't allocate the same bandwidth to locals. However, football on ESPN looks substantially better and on FOX football is excellent. (I don't get ABC HD).
Let's see: looks good on ESPN & FOX, both 720p stations. Looks not as good on NBC & CBS, 1080i stations. I assumed the hype about sports on 720p meant, in the case of football, that you could track the ball better. That is, a ball should show more motion blur from the 1080i source but not necessarily be broken up into large "macro pixels".
So, am I seeing macroblocking due to a coincidentally poor signal on NBC and CBS or is this the result of the XBR deinterlacing a 1080i signal? It seems many programs on NBC have as much motion as a jog back to the huddle but I never see the problem appear as severe as during football. (Could this also be related to the camera?)
BTW, football on NBC/CBS seems to be the Achillies heal of this TV. I'm quite happy with most everything else on the screen.

Byrne
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post #569 of 3416 Old 09-08-2006, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpedit View Post

The opening NFL game last night was certainly watchable but disappointing. Static shots were stellar but during many moving sequences, especially camera pans, the image was broken up into what folks have refered to as tiling or pixelation. This was most notable when players were jogging back to the huddle.
I've been assuming this was macroblocking, caused by a poor signal (low bit rate of transmission). I assumed this might because these signals originate at local stations or perhaps my cable company (Comcast) doesn't allocate the same bandwidth to locals. However, football on ESPN looks substantially better and on FOX football is excellent. (I don't get ABC HD).
Let's see: looks good on ESPN & FOX, both 720p stations. Looks not as good on NBC & CBS, 1080i stations. I assumed the hype about sports on 720p meant, in the case of football, that you could track the ball better. That is, a ball should show more motion blur from the 1080i source but not necessarily be broken up into large "macro pixels".
So, am I seeing macroblocking due to a coincidentally poor signal on NBC and CBS or is this the result of the XBR deinterlacing a 1080i signal? It seems many programs on NBC have as much motion as a jog back to the huddle but I never see the problem appear as severe as during football. (Could this also be related to the camera?)
BTW, football on NBC/CBS seems to be the Achillies heal of this TV. I'm quite happy with most everything else on the screen.

Byrne


PQ was very good on NBC with Time Warne Cable. I did not experience microblocking during the game, maybe some with a couple of commercials. I agree that FOX HD and ESPN HD lokks slightly better. CBS HD looks the poorest out of all, but NBC HD last night was better. Maybe I'm not paying attention to all of the details, but I'm satisfied with the HD channels and OK with the SD.
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post #570 of 3416 Old 09-08-2006, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TASE17 View Post

PQ was very good on NBC with Time Warne Cable. I did not experience microblocking during the game, maybe some with a couple of commercials. I agree that FOX HD and ESPN HD lokks slightly better. CBS HD looks the poorest out of all, but NBC HD last night was better. Maybe I'm not paying attention to all of the details, but I'm satisfied with the HD channels and OK with the SD.

Glad to hear that the PQ looks good at leaast.

I was thinking of posting some SD examples this weekend but have never posted photos to a forum before. If they are to be uploaded as attachments, it looks like there is a maximum file size of 500K.

Some people prefer to post them elsewhere on the net and then just give the URL.

Can somebody in the know please advise?

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