Official Sony 40",46" XBR2, XBR3 - Owner's Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genci View Post

Cons:
-Price vs performance + features
-Contrast level is too low (looks like the images are better at 80-100 contrast)
-Horrible SD upscaling
-Dissapointing image de-interlacing (720p looks better than 1080i)
-PC input is useless with VGA (and settings do not apply to this input)

Cons:
-Price (I'd have stopped there, the price is the main con for this set)
- Contrast level too low? (I hope you're not talking about black-level as this set properly calibrated has probably the deepest and richest black levels of any lcd's and dare I say I'm confident enough where I am actually curious as to how this set would stack up to the Plasmas in terms of overall PQ
-SD upscaling.. ? Don't really care much about SD, not even a reason why I purchased the set
-PC input useless with VGA? How so? I connected my pc and I had no problems.. keep in mind using the VGA disabled all the other things (it even has a different menu than things connected via DVI/HDMI/etc I believe)

anyhows like I said, I disagree with all your cons except 1.. ok maybe 2, but mostly because I would've stopped at "price" as a major drawback to the set :P

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post #722 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 01:22 PM
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Since I purchased this set just for HD content, I would agree that price is the only drawback. All the other cons listed in that previous post don't exist in my experience with the XBR2.

"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy"
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post #723 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 02:00 PM
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Quick post, I finally received my several times delayed 40 XBR3. I've had it for two days now and so far I am very happy with it. Given a few more days of tweaking/viewing I'll come back with my settings and thoughts on it.
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post #724 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 02:09 PM
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Anybody using a particular HDMI cable with their KDL-40XBR2?

I'm wondering if going ahead and getting a Monster HDMI cable is worth the extra cost. I'm looking at these manufacturers below:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

http://accessories.rca.com/en-US/mod...odelnum=HD10HH

http://www.cobaltcable.com/hdmi_cable.htm

Do all HDMI cables support 1080p? Is it important to get an HDMI cable that is Version 1.3? Does an expensive HDMI cable like the Monster HDMI400 make a significant difference in picture quality on SD channels? If I am going to buy one of these expensive cables, I'd like to get one that is a little bit "future proofed".
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post #725 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 04:20 PM
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pc to xbr3 is amazing playing wow is very nice. I love how my PC treats the TV like another cpu monitor.
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post #726 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blklacker View Post

XPR3 has HDMI 1.3 just to clear up any confusion. HDMI 1.3 is the only way to get a true 1080p. Also im hearing that the ps3 will not come with a HDMI 1.3 cable out of the box, so you might want to get one in advanced. basically this TV what built for PS3 & blueray

you got your info all jacked up!!! and your also just confusing all them newbies more than what they already are


1) the XBR2/3 uses HDMI 1.2
2) PS3 is "supposed to have 1.3" but the latest rumors say it wont....just wait until it comes out to find out for sure...oh well
3) YOU DO NOT NEED HDMI 1.3 TO VIEW 1080p....GEEZ haven't you been reading the posts!!!! its been talked a few times already (look 1-4 pages behind..not much to read either)

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post #727 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latin-Man View Post

you got your info all jacked up!!! and your also just confusing all them newbies more than what they already are


1) the XBR2/3 uses HDMI 1.2
2) PS3 is "supposed to have 1.3" but the latest rumors say it wont....just wait until it comes out to find out for sure...oh well
3) YOU DO NOT NEED HDMI 1.3 TO VIEW 1080p....GEEZ haven't you been reading the posts!!!! its been talked a few times already (look 1-4 pages behind..not much to read either)



BTW, we as owners have had enough crap with this HDMI 1.2/1.3 discussions waaay before we bought the TV. We certainly don't need to discuss it here anymore.
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post #728 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by disguised View Post



BTW, we as owners have had enough crap with this HDMI 1.2/1.3 discussions waaay before we bought the TV. We certainly don't need to discuss it here anymore.

thats all THIS THREAD IS!!!!! bunch of newb's asking silly questions that can be found on the users manual, and whats worse, a repeat of questions that have already been answered simply because people are too lazy to use the "search" button. we got almost 30 pg's of repeated and purchasing advice (just go to a store and demo it personally) questions.

dam GooglyBear, we may need to start another thread....."XBR2/3 Owners thread---NO NEWBY QUESTIONS---"

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post #729 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtvguy5 View Post

Anybody using a particular HDMI cable with their KDL-40XBR2?

I'm wondering if going ahead and getting a Monster HDMI cable is worth the extra cost. I'm looking at these manufacturers below:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

http://accessories.rca.com/en-US/mod...odelnum=HD10HH

http://www.cobaltcable.com/hdmi_cable.htm

Do all HDMI cables support 1080p? Is it important to get an HDMI cable that is Version 1.3? Does an expensive HDMI cable like the Monster HDMI400 make a significant difference in picture quality on SD channels? If I am going to buy one of these expensive cables, I'd like to get one that is a little bit "future proofed".


I have the cables (DVI-HDMI, HDMI-HDMI) from both Monster and Monoprice. There's no visible difference in picture quality as far as I can tell.
I'm using the Monster DVI-HDMI cable mostly because of its sturdiness (and they look better too ) and they fit snuggly to the back of the TV. The Monoprice cable has a bulkier connector and it wobbles somewhat if I connect it to the back. Though it works perfectly on the HDMI port on the side of the TV.
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post #730 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blklacker View Post

I have spoken with several people from sony I know this issue has been beaten down with a stick, but you cannot get a true 1080p with out 1.3HDMI This is the information I have gotten from sony, but if you find other information please feeel free to coach me up.


since your too lazy to use the search button and read, Ill do it for you, its on page 106 of the non-owners XBR2/3 No Price Talk thread.

and the sony sales guys are wrong, they just work there and want to make a sale.

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post #731 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GooglyBear View Post

once you start calibrating there's really no going back, i've re-calibrated again fine tuning it further but this time under DVE instead of using Avia

anyhows my previous avia calibrations:
http://fate-owns.us/imgs/misc/HomeTh...colortemp1.jpg
http://fate-owns.us/imgs/misc/HomeTh...-avia-rgb1.jpg
http://fate-owns.us/imgs/misc/HomeTh...ammacurve1.jpg

my current more finely tuned imnho calibrations under DVE:
http://fate-owns.us/imgs/misc/HomeTh...-dve-6500k.jpg
http://fate-owns.us/imgs/misc/HomeTh...rgblevels1.jpg
http://fate-owns.us/imgs/misc/HomeTh...DVE-gamma1.jpg
http://fate-owns.us/imgs/misc/HomeTh...ammacurve1.jpg

you'll notice that my RGB and my 6500k are almost all on-point, this set is definitely *the* set to get for people who love getting the best pq thru calibrations

One key note btw.. I refuse, simply refuse to not use some of the Sony's "Features".. what's the point of getting the Sony, paying the insane premium.. if only to turn everything off.. that's insane! Now some things are a must to be turned off such as the Black Corrector which just destroys the deep dark grays and crushes them all to one color.. or the Live Color setting which destroys normal color temps and makes regular colors almost neonish..

anyhows here are my SpyderTV settings, not sure how they'll translate for you without the appropriate White Balance settings, but oh well just an example that yes, it is possible to use the Sony's "features" such as A.C.E and still achieve near perfect grayscale/color temps

Display Area: Full Pixel
Power Save: Low
Backlight: 3
Picture: 96
Brightness: 34 or 45 (this is.. somewhat confusing.. when I run SpyderTV calibration, it gives me 34 as the best setting.. but when I use INHD tune-up, for the contrast pattern.. the shade of "10" is crushed with black, except when I raise Brightness to 45.. so who knows what's going on there! I guess this is that tricky 10IRE setting or something.. so 34 may be right after all)
Color: 50
Hue: R3
Color Temp: Warm2
Sharpness: 35
Noise Reduction: Low
DRC: Off (sadly, lol, nice one Sony, advertise a feature whose best left disabled)
Advance Settings
Black Corrector: Off (crushes deep dark grays to black, so you're definitely losing shadow detail)
**A.C.E: High (what? High? yes.. High!)
**Gamma: High
**Clear White: Low (yes, i turned mine on)
Live: OFF (cannot emphasize this enough)
Color Space: Wide (not sure why I chose Wide, but I did)
Detail: Off (adds noise, seriously, this is a very bad 'feature')
Edge: Medium (doesn't really add artificial adges, put up a sharpness pattern and you'll see what I mean)

anyhows don't know how these will look in yours if you try it out, it doesn't have the corresponding White Balance settings so The set is great and has enough customization to take up hours and hours of fine-tuning for perfectionists.

I'll give it my highest compliment yet: This isn't a set that is great out of the box. The Vivid aka Torch setting is horrid, Standard is decent.. but this sets strength is not out of the box pq. But hand it to someone who is used to tweaking their A/V equipment .. and finely tuned.. I'd like to see this set side-by-side to a calibrated Pioneer Plasma which is imnho the single best display around, and see how they stack up against each other Sadly I know the limitation of LCD is that they may look great by themselves.. but right next to a plasma and the differences are clear

Your settings are very close to the CNET review.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KDL_40X...5.html?tag=txt

Would you please post your white balance settings. I hope they are different because CNET settings don't work for me. It makes everything a tad orange in color.

ps HD HDMI source in a completely dark room.




Here are the user-menu settings we found ideal for viewing in the Sony KDL-40XBR2 in a completely dark room with a 1080i HDMI source, namely the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player. Your ideal settings will vary according to room lighting, source, and personal preference. We have not listed settings that do not affect picture quality with this setup. See the full review for explanations as to why we chose these settings.

Picture menu

Mode: custom Backlight: 3
Picture: 93
Brightness: 56
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Warm2
Sharpness: 33
Noise reduction: Off

Advanced settings

Black corrector: off
Advanced C.E.: off
Gamma: low
Clear white: off
Live color: off
Color space: normal
White balance: (see below)
Detail enhancer: off
Edge enhancer: off

White balance

R-Gain: -1
G-Gain: -9
B-Gain: -2
R-Bias: -1
G-Bias: -1
B-Bias: -4

Wide menu

Display area: full pixel

Setup menu

Color matrix: standard
Power saving: low
Light sensor: off
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post #732 of 3416 Old 09-20-2006, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blklacker View Post

I have spoken with several people from sony I know this issue has been beaten down with a stick, but you cannot get a true 1080p with out 1.3HDMI This is the information I have gotten from sony, but if you find other information please feeel free to coach me up.

Since this blanket statement flies in the face of everything I have ever read about 1080p or HDMI 1.3 can you tell us why it isn't true 1080p?
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post #733 of 3416 Old 09-21-2006, 02:27 PM
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Can some please translate the Japanese text on page 42 of the following pdf:

http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/products/catalog/TV_sou.pdf

I am wondering what they are saving about xvYCC

This Japanese catalog is very nice. I wish there was an english version.

Note: There is some kind of copy protection on the PDF that prevents me from copying the text. I was going to use a translator.
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post #734 of 3416 Old 09-21-2006, 09:21 PM
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I have 2 MAJOR questions regarding that beautiful brochure in japanese..

1) How come no sign of the 60/70 XBR series rear projection units??? DO you think they already have problems with them too the point that they exclude their "FLAGSHIP" models from the literature???

2) Using a little common sense you can see that the KDL-40/46 2500's have a higher contrast ratio 1800:1 as compaired with the XBR2/3's..1500:1..?
WhaT'S up with that??
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post #735 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG KAHANA View Post

Using a little common sense you can see that the KDL-40/46 2500's have a higher contrast ratio 1800:1 as compaired with the XBR2/3's..1500:1..?
WhaT'S up with that??

You can never really take contrast ratio's seriously. There are too many ways to measure it and so many advanced features that increase it.
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post #736 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 07:46 AM
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Hi all,

Question...

How long do you feel it takes for the XBR2/3 to "warmup" before the backlight stabilizes to its "normal" light output?

I know "THX Optimizer" says 10 minutes and Video Essentials (the original not the DVE version) says 30 minutes (I think) but those instructions are probably CRT based.

I pose this question because my eyes seem to tell me that the picture is darker when a "cold" set is first switched on but that it seems to gradually lighten up.

I would rather have "actual" numbers than numbers based on "conventional wisdom".

Thanks in advance.

Cheers...
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post #737 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 08:20 AM
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I am a plasma kind of guy but thinking of purchasing a new lcd..either Sony or Sharp. What are your reasons for considering a Sony over a Sharp lcd? It seems the latest Sharps have somewhat better pricing and somewhat better specis (I know all specs are inflated and misleading). In a Sharp lcd, soon to to released model there is a 52 inch set that will probably go for less than $4000 (street price) . Pretty compelling, yes?
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post #738 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard korsgren View Post

I am a plasma kind of guy but thinking of purchasing a new lcd..either Sony or Sharp. What are your reasons for considering a Sony over a Sharp lcd? It seems the latest Sharps have somewhat better pricing and somewhat better specis (I know all specs are inflated and misleading). In a Sharp lcd, soon to to released model there is a 52 inch set that will probably go for less than $4000 (street price) . Pretty compelling, yes?

Hi richard korsgren,

Well, the first thing to consider is that this is an owner's thread and so we have already made our decision on what to purchase.

You are free to spend your money as you wish, or not. I am just expressing my own thoughts on the matter and I am in no way trying to influence you.

If you feel that you must spend your money only on a TV that without question has the absolutely best specs, then IMHO you are going to be waiting for quite a while. Why? Because there will always be something better, cheaper, etc. around the corner to catch your fancy. Going through these forums is not going to help either because you'll possibly read one, or more, negative opinions about your dream TV and it will place a doubt in your mind. Your doubt will cause you to pause and then you will read about another TV about to be released and you will say to yourself "Ahhh...that sounds really like the TV that I want."

And so the cycle begins again.

I went through that with PC's and what a pain it is what with all the incremental improvements and the costs involved with them. I stopped that by creating the absolute best PC for that day (1996) and I paid premium prices for top components but I had future-proofed it for the next 5 years. Then in 2001 I did the same thing again.

Why I bought my 40XBR2:-

1. 1920x1080 native resolution screen. We know that for DTV there was 480p, 720p and 1080i. There was no "better" pending incrementally better resolution and so my goal was to be able to have native 1080 support. 1080p was a development of high-def DVD but at least it did not change the resolution.

2. Inputs. That was a nightmare. First there was component, then DVI, then HDMI. What a mess. And now even with HDMI we still worry about if it is 1.3 versus 1.2. Therefore my goal was to have HDMI with support for 1080p only because high-def DVD players were now on my radar-screen for the future.

3. I wanted 3 HDMI inputs. 1 for a DVD player, 2 for some kind of HD recording device because I do a lot of time-shifting viewing and sometimes what I want to watch is on the same day/time but on different networks.

4. LCD flat panel technology because I did not want to deal with tweaking overscan on a RPTV and because I wanted to conserve as much energy as was feasible.

5. I wanted a major manufacturer.

6. I wanted the TV to be available from a major retailer with an available extended warranty because I am afraid of dead and stuck pixels, and the major cost associated with the original purchase. This last one definitely affected the price but I got peace of mind.

7. This forum (through this and other threads) had more positive than negative things to say about the XBR2/3.

I apologise if this is off topic and if it sounds like a rant.

Cheers...
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post #739 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 09:11 AM
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rrhb: thanks for your insight. And
I never buy according to specs because most are inflated. Just about all companies do this.
I think the newest Sharps (upcoming in October) and the latest Sonys will be about a 'tie'..in my opinion. It will come down to little things, like appearance, inputs, etc. And Of course... price. I am considering the 52 inch Sharp if I can buy it in mid-high $3000s. Now, for me, the ideal situation would be for Costco to carry the model 62 Sharp (52 inch). That lifetime warranty is sure 'peace of mind'.
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post #740 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard korsgren View Post

rrhb: thanks for your insight. And
I never buy according to specs because most are inflated. Just about all companies do this.
I think the newest Sharps (upcoming in October) and the latest Sonys will be about a 'tie'..in my opinion. It will come down to little things, like appearance, inputs, etc. And Of course... price. I am considering the 52 inch Sharp if I can buy it in mid-high $3000s. Now, for me, the ideal situation would be for Costco to carry the model 62 Sharp (52 inch). That lifetime warranty is sure 'peace of mind'.

sorry off topic...but does costco really have a lifetime warranty? my bro bought a sony LCD there and they told him he has up to a year to return w/o manager approval but i didn't hear about lifetime warranty...does that mean that if the tv ever breaks you can return it or do they fix it?
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post #741 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 10:57 AM
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As of today, there policy is..if you are not satisfied with your purchase, return it for full refund to include tax. As stated, the only exclusion on this are computers and, there, the time limit is 6 months. Of course, the manager has to approve of the return. But he always does unless the policy is abused severely.
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post #742 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 12:16 PM
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Major manufacturers may take returns for bad/stuck pixels but I've read on Sony's site that there is an allowance for so many bad pixels due to the 'nature of the technology". How do we know a mfr will not stick to this 'official' version of allowing so many bad pixels and not allow a returnm for this?
This is why I was happy to buy the Sony 32XBR1 return I found at a great price. I got to see it running in the store first.

In the operating manual Sony says -

"Although the LCD screen is made with high-precision technology and has effective pixels of 99.99% or more, black dots or bright points of light (red, blue, or green) may appear constantly on the LCD screen. This is a structural property of the LCD panel and is not a malfunction."
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post #743 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 02:15 PM
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I'm not sure if I need to start a new post, but I have a question for the folks using as a pc. Has anyone noticed a very, very slight green color towards any of the edges/ corners? When I pull up a all white screen, I notice a discoloration to the lower left hand corner. It can easily go unoticed, but it kinda bugs me. I'm sure it's on all the inputs, not just pc. It's just easier to tell. Dang, I don't wanna exchange it.
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post #744 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard korsgren View Post

I am a plasma kind of guy but thinking of purchasing a new lcd..either Sony or Sharp. What are your reasons for considering a Sony over a Sharp lcd? It seems the latest Sharps have somewhat better pricing and somewhat better specis (I know all specs are inflated and misleading). In a Sharp lcd, soon to to released model there is a 52 inch set that will probably go for less than $4000 (street price) . Pretty compelling, yes?

I researched various TVs like mad and bougth the XBR3 for the following reasons:

1. Wanted LCD over Plasma

2. In my eyes the XBR2/3 had the best picture out there and most reviewers seem to agree that the XBR2/3 is over priced but near or at the top of the heap for LCD.

3. Didn't want to wait longer for the new Sharps (there is ALWAYS something else coming )

4. I bought a 40" and the specs on the Sharp 40" don't have the same boost that the larger models do.

5. I loved the piano black and floating glass styling of the XBR3

6. It had all the features and hook ups I wanted and then some (I'm not a PIP guy)

7. I loved the shear number of options to tweak and calibrate the set. It has enough toys to keep me busy changing the picture and driving the wife crazy for months
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post #745 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gamer1 View Post

I'm not sure if I need to start a new post, but I have a question for the folks using as a pc. Has anyone noticed a very, very slight green color towards any of the edges/ corners? When I pull up a all white screen, I notice a discoloration to the lower left hand corner. It can easily go unoticed, but it kinda bugs me. I'm sure it's on all the inputs, not just pc. It's just easier to tell. Dang, I don't wanna exchange it.

I am not seeing that problem on my 46XBR2 using PC or any other input.
Mind you I did see a lot of green today while watching the Rypder Cup in glorious 16:9 HD.
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post #746 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 04:12 PM
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Sony XBR2/3 would be my other choice along with 52d62u from Sharp.
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post #747 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 05:01 PM
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Have a question regarding the HR10-250 and Dolby Digital broadcasts over HDMI with the XBR2:

It appears that this panel does not accept a DD signal, so when using the HDMI cable I must turn DD to the "off" position on the HR10 in order for the XBR2 to play audio from DD content.

1. Is there a way to tell the XBR2 to "convert all incoming DD audio content regular stereo" so that the panel will allow the HR10 to send audio to the panel? In this manner, my optical cable will have the DD content to feed to my DD receiver.

2. If #1 is not possible, there is a second HDMI input on the rear of the panel that also has 2 RCA jacks. Can I use that HDMI input just for video and have the XBR2 receive the audio from the HR10? In this manner, the HR10 can be set with DD in the "on" position and I can have DD on my receiver while having 2 channel stereo on my panel.

TIA
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post #748 of 3416 Old 09-22-2006, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by richard korsgren View Post

I am a plasma kind of guy but thinking of purchasing a new lcd..either Sony or Sharp. What are your reasons for considering a Sony over a Sharp lcd? It seems the latest Sharps have somewhat better pricing and somewhat better specis (I know all specs are inflated and misleading). In a Sharp lcd, soon to to released model there is a 52 inch set that will probably go for less than $4000 (street price) . Pretty compelling, yes?

I know very little about plasma but I own one of both brands in LCD and can tel you that, generally speaking, the latest model from either brand will be the better of the two.

Sony and Sharp are the only real choices for serious LCD TV.

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post #749 of 3416 Old 09-23-2006, 07:39 AM
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As we are not supposed to discuss pricing here I will not mention that a very significant retail adjustment of some sort has just taken place in Canada on the XBR2/3 models - likely in preparation for some Sharp new competition, coming in October.

You didn't hear it from me.

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post #750 of 3416 Old 09-23-2006, 07:52 AM
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From which standpoint? A retailer adjustment or the manufacturers MSRP adjustment?

Also if you do the exchange rate werent both of these sets priced higher than here in the states?

I ask cause there were no press releases by Sony yesterday. But if so it is great news, although you put a crink in my day, was going to P/u the 46xrb3 today to tide me over till the panny 65 are in with reveiws. Now what !
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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Sony Kds R70xbr2 70 Inch Sxrd Xbr Rear Projection Hdtv , Sony Bravia Xbr Series Kdl 46xbr2 46 Inch 1080p Lcd Hdtv
Gear in this thread - 46xbr2 by PriceGrabber.com

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