Official Sony 40",46" XBR2, XBR3 - Owner's Thread - Page 60 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1771 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 06:33 AM
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I agree with others on this thread. The picture is amazing. I actually never had cable or satellite - just an antenna. I hooked up the XBR2 to my existing aerial in my attic, and very pleasantly surprised to get about 20 HD channels from the air for free in my area (Central MA)! However, as others have said, I have slight but noticeable clouding about the size of a baseball in the upper left corner, only noticeable during dark scenes - almost tolerable, but there, nonetheless. I am hesitant to gamble returning to hope for a better replacement, and possibly be more disappointed by an even worse set. I may hold onto it for a while, see what occurs with replacements and response from Sony, and hope a confirmed solution will develop to guarantee that a good set comes later. I bought mine from BB with the full 4 year service plan.
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post #1772 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

The manufacture date of my 46XBR2 is October 2006.

Mine is also October 2006, and Made in Mexico.

I'm definitely going to return this tv Saturday, but not decided if I want to replace with another XBR2 or just get a refund.
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post #1773 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknower View Post

just read this on ign's HDTV vol 19 LINK

A: Sup D,

Your problems are actually a well known bug with the 1080p update for the Xbox 360. Apparently all Sony XBR2 and XBR3s have the problems you describe. There was a big freak out on the AVS forums the day the update was released, and the day after Microsoft acknowledged the issue and has pledged a fix, which should be out already.
-Gerry

That guy didnt even answer his question. The guy asked about the washed out colors, not about 1080p. The vga cable for the 360 has ALWAYS looked washed out, ALWAYS! This has been the case since the launch of the 360 and it is a bug in the vga "programming/engineering" side of things. The update issue he answered with just regards 1080p on the xbr2, nothing else.
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post #1774 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 06:41 AM
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I sent an e-mail to Sound and Vision magazine asking them if they've ever seen such a backlight problem. I think they would know because they review a lot of LCD displays. I included links to several threads here and a link to the photos I took of my cloudy set. I'll let you know if I hear back from them. I may e-mail Home Theater magazine too.
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post #1775 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I sent an e-mail to Sound and Vision magazine asking them if they've ever seen such a backlight problem. I think they would know because they review a lot of LCD displays. I included links to several threads here and a link to the photos I took of my cloudy set. I'll let you know if I hear back from them. I may e-mail Home Theater magazine too.

Can I see the picture?
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post #1776 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcrash001 View Post

Can I see the picture?

its a couple of pages back

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post #1777 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 07:29 AM
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post #1778 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 07:45 AM
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It is hard to say for certain just from looking at photos, but the clouds on my xbr2 seem to be brighter than swizzir's, but more localized to the upper left and lower right corners.

I understand that making a 46" panel is probably a lot different and more difficult than making a 32" panel, but come on, Sony! You can't expect customers to accept a flagship panel [that costs three times as much!] to have worse PQ than a modest-price mid-size panel.

I'm trying hard to not let this situation get me too fired up. My irritation is definitely exacerbated by reading about others' experiences here. I'll try to get some pics of my panel and post them up soon...
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post #1779 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Pics are here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8827575


Thanks, I just called Sony Customer Support and they gave me a number to authorized service center. I'm going to let technician to look at the problem, see what he thinks about the issue.
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post #1780 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 07:56 AM
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I think I just answered my own question. I just looked at the back of the TV and printed in bold letters is "made in MEXICO". I am now not the least bit surpised at the lack of quality and craftsmanship. The same thing that happened to most of VW/Audi in the car world is happening to Sony!!! Stop it Sony!!!!
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post #1781 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:11 AM
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It's like cars. Newly designed models, esp from certain manufacturers can have quality issues or bugs to be worked out. But even the Japanese can have quality control issues (note: Toyota).
These premium priced LCD panels are in larger sizes and with pixel counts never manufactured before. I hope Sony will address the uneven backlight issues. Since I don't see it on my 40XBR1, I don't think they can say it's 'inherent' in the technology like they do about bad pixels.

Is it only on the 46 XBR2s or also on the 40XBR2's?

I wonder what surprises the new Sony 52" LCDs may have.

Not sure if the Mexico comment is valid but also do you want to spend $500-1000 more more one made in Japan?
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post #1782 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniz View Post

I think I just answered my own question. I just looked at the back of the TV and printed in bold letters is "made in MEXICO". I am now not the least bit surpised at the lack of quality and craftsmanship. The same thing that happened to most of VW/Audi in the car world is happening to Sony!!! Stop it Sony!!!!

HUH????

Poor quality because it is 'Made in Mexico'???
As an owner of the new Jetta TDI and a 40XBR3 I take offense at your statement.

My Jetta has been bulletproof and my XBR3 excellent.
Please save your bigotry for your favorite blog.
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post #1783 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:21 AM
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I looked at a 40XBR2 at my dealer and didn't notice any problems. I also haven't read anyone complain about the 40. One other thing is that most XBR2 reviews I've read have been for the 40. So I think it's just 46 and maybe bigger. The Samsung's (LN-S4696D), from what I've read use the same panel as the Sony's, are also experiencing the same problem.
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post #1784 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigaguy View Post

Not sure if the Mexico comment is valid but also do you want to spend $500-1000 more more one made in Japan?

Ummm, in a word, YES. At this price point, I would happily pay the premium for Japanese manufacture.

However, let's be honest here - we're talking about SONY, not a budget brand. We have all ALREADY paid a premium!!!

Sony is skating on the assumptions of high-end customers who are probably familiar with the historical quality of the xbr line. I assumed this set was made in Japan. I assumed it would meet my expectations.

Unfortunately, it did not, though maybe the next one will. And it never even occured to me that it was made in Mexico.

While it is certainly not impossible for Sony to have a great facility south of the border, I think our empirical experience [clouds everywhere!] indicates that something is definitely wrong with QC for this set, and Sony doesn't care enough to do something about it [yet?]. Presumably, the cost of exchanging set for those of us anal enough to demand it are more than covered by the cost savings of moving manufacture from Japan to Mexico.

Although I understand that calculation, I still find it an extraordinarily depressing thought. Talk about taking your customers for granted...
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post #1785 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:30 AM
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I also noticed(but not as much as dark screen) this on regular view. If you pay attention on the spot, colors are little lighter.
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post #1786 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:32 AM
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I think it's important for us escalate the issue. Let as many places as possible (Sony customer support in particular) know of the problem. I'm hoping that my e-mail to Sound and Vision will make some head way. If not, I'm prepared to up the ante and try to get it on tech blogs like Engadget.

I have an exchange scheduled but what makes me nervous is the replacement could be as bad if not worse.
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post #1787 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcrash001 View Post

I also noticed(but not as much as dark screen) this on regular view. If you pay attention on the spot, colors are little lighter.

I too noticed lighter (washed out) colors while watching Heros last night.
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post #1788 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:48 AM
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My 34" XBR960 was made in the USA. It has been perfect. I'm sorry, but I have yet to come accross anything made in Mexico that was better or even equal to something made in Japan. There is no question that Japan has the best technology and best products in the world. There is a reason why they take top honors in to automotive industry year after year. Just take cars that are actually made in Japan (i.e not Toyota's that are made in USA or Canada). Lexus has it's main plant in Japan, where everything except for their midsized SUV is made. It has been number one in the world for the past 12 years in terms of quality, fit and finnish, and lowest error rate. The plant has produced the least amount of errors ever seen in the automotive industy. It puts cars made in Mexico to shame. Statistically cars made in Mexico (and some other parts of the world) are the most unreliable and have the worst build quality. It is no secret that Japan makes the highest quality stuff. Germany can make cars too, but not quite up to the standards that you see in Japan. If Sony would just stick to their roots and not "outsource" to Mexico we wouldn't be seeing these problems. I already paid my fare share and expect quality. I'm sure it would cost Sony more to pay people who actually care about making stuff right in Japan, and that would eat into their profits. But that is a choice that Sony must make. Maybe after these see the 100's if not 1000's of returns on these sets they will chose to move production to Japan.
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post #1789 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I too noticed lighter (washed out) colors while watching Heros last night.

For me, noticing the spot during regular content requires a field of somewhat uniform brightness in the content, so that the 'spot' shows up. This is most easily observed with dark material, as we have all commented, but I have also seen the cloud lightening uniform fields of other colors.

I DVR'd Heroes last night. I will watch for it when I screen the show tonight...

More generally, I have noticed that the black level of my set isn't as good as my 32s2010. Can any of you think of why that might be? Shouldn't the XBRs have BETTER black levels? I have adjusted the settings extensively, power save, backlight level, blah blah blah, and I can't seem to get the blacks where I think they really should be (even allowing for LCD tech not being as good as CRT or Plasma in this regard). Heck, If I could just get them to be as good as the 32s2010, I'd be happy.

Those of you who have the cloud issue, is your overall black level less, well, black than you think it ought to be?
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post #1790 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiggers View Post

More generally, I have noticed that the black level of my set isn't as good as my 32s2010. Can any of you think of why that might be? Shouldn't the XBRs have BETTER black levels? I have adjusted the settings extensively, power save, backlight level, blah blah blah, and I can't seem to get the blacks where I think they really should be (even allowing for LCD tech not being as good as CRT or Plasma in this regard). Heck, If I could just get them to be as good as the 32s2010, I'd be happy.

Those of you who have the cloud issue, is your overall black level less, well, black than you think it ought to be?

I agree that the black level on my 32S2000 is better than the XBR2. It may be the poor quality of the XBR2 panel or its size. Those are my guesses. Although the blacks of a 46" JVC I looked at seemed really good.
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post #1791 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 09:18 AM
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Maybe it's easier to get better blacks on a smaller panel. I have both the 32" and 40" XBR1 panels and they seem pretty close. Any differences I usually chalk up to different rooms' windows and lighting. My 40 seems very good overall, it has a stunning HD picture with plenty of blackness when the source is right.
I was contemplating 'upgrading' to a 1080p Sony 40-46, but my 40XBR1 is probably just as good or better. I would like to go larger, but I'll probably wait til 1080p matures and prices drop some more. I always thought bigger usually meant better for HD viewing. I know my 40 has more visual impact than my 32.
I'm a little concerned about the newest Sony panels issues some are reporting, it's a lot of dough, I'd want near perfection!.
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post #1792 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 09:59 AM
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Never had digital tv before, Bought an 46xbr2 for about two weeks. I am not an expert in lcd tvs or video issues. But I am having what appears to be a problem and wonder if anyone else has seen this.

Have TWC in San Diego, and their SA Explorer 8300HD dvr, connected with HDMI. I occasionally notice that out of no where after having had a stable picture, the video signal appears to cut out for a fraction of a second. It will do this sometimes as as a single event and then clear up, or other times repeatedly with a 20-30 sec frequency.

When I switch to using the raw cable signal fed directly to tv, same result..

This only happens about every third day or so. Is this common with digital cable signals, or is it a tv problem?

Thanks for the help . AMJ7
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post #1793 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by amj7 View Post

Never had digital tv before, Bought an 46xbr2 for about two weeks. I am not an expert in lcd tvs or video issues. But I am having what appears to be a problem and wonder if anyone else has seen this.

Have TWC in San Diego, and their SA Explorer 8300HD dvr, connected with HDMI. I occasionally notice that out of no where after having had a stable picture, the video signal appears to cut out for a fraction of a second. It will do this sometimes as as a single event and then clear up, or other times repeatedly with a 20-30 sec frequency.

When I switch to using the raw cable signal fed directly to tv, same result..

This only happens about every third day or so. Is this common with digital cable signals, or is it a tv problem?

Thanks for the help . AMJ7

Read my post from yesterday and tell me if it's the same thing.
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post #1794 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gigaguy View Post

I'm a little concerned about the newest Sony panels issues some are reporting, it's a lot of dough, I'd want near perfection!.

Exactly. I don't know about your guys, but for me, $3500 (give or take) is a LOT of money. It is completely reasonable to expect [near] perfection.
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post #1795 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 10:38 AM
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Hi,

I just purchased the new XBR3 46" and it is an amazing set. I do have a question that I remember reading about on this site but can no longer find.

When hooked up to Cablevision STB (not the HDMI box) via componant I notice what looks like scrolling scan lines going up the picture. It is noticable via SD, but much less notacable via HD.

Anyone know why this is happening ?

First off I'm using the cables that came from cablevision. Secondly I ordered the newer HD box with HDMI - I'm waiting for it to come, then I will by a HQ HDMI cable and make the switch.

Hopefully that will correct this issue, but any feedback would be welcomed

Thanks.
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post #1796 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 10:42 AM
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any news on the 1080p xbox 360 issue
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post #1797 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraiggers View Post

For me, noticing the spot during regular content requires a field of somewhat uniform brightness in the content, so that the 'spot' shows up. This is most easily observed with dark material, as we have all commented, but I have also seen the cloud lightening uniform fields of other colors.

I DVR'd Heroes last night. I will watch for it when I screen the show tonight...

More generally, I have noticed that the black level of my set isn't as good as my 32s2010. Can any of you think of why that might be? Shouldn't the XBRs have BETTER black levels? I have adjusted the settings extensively, power save, backlight level, blah blah blah, and I can't seem to get the blacks where I think they really should be (even allowing for LCD tech not being as good as CRT or Plasma in this regard). Heck, If I could just get them to be as good as the 32s2010, I'd be happy.

Those of you who have the cloud issue, is your overall black level less, well, black than you think it ought to be?

What settings are being used here among the members that are having and issue and when was your set Mfg...? I think that the calibration of the panel may be more of the issue or at least exaggerating the issue.

I recently took delivery of a XBR3 - had it professionally calibrated and with these pro settings [my pic is on the dark side], I have no clouding at all - very uniform backlighting - the set was Mfg in October '06. That being said, coming from a Pro Calibrated XBR 960; no the black levels on the XBR3 are not as good as the XBR960, but what LCD can match this CRT in terms of black levels...? Only the Pio Elite Pro model for $7K so far can compete. But the XBR is certainly capable of showing great blacks; they are just not the deep black-blacks of the 960.

Part of the issue may be perception: I fully knew that going from CRT to LCD that I would have to deal with not being able to show true black/blacks. That is just the inherent limitation of LCD's and it's well known. Again, it my no means suggests that the XBR3 cannot display great blacks, for it does.
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post #1798 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 10:50 AM
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I was just at Circuit City looking at the 46XBR2 on the floor. The set wasn't in an exceptionally bright area so I feel I got a pretty good look at it. I didn't notice any discernible backlight leaks or clouds. The sales guy said they've had the set on the floor for a couple months which would put the manufacture date around August (I couldn't get around to the back of the set to verify but I feel it's a pretty good guess).
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post #1799 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLampke View Post

Only the Pio Elite Pro model for $7K so far can compete. But the XBR is certainly capable of showing great blacks; they are just not the deep black-blacks of the 960.

All of the current Pio plasmas (xx70HD, pro and elite panels) better the XBR3 in blacks and color saturation. The XBR3 definitely bests the Sammy LCD panels, however in black levels (though not by much).

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post #1800 of 3400 Old 11-07-2006, 10:56 AM
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why is it when im watching HDTV, there is a slight audio delay??

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