Official Sony 40",46" XBR2, XBR3 - Owner's Thread - Page 60 - AVS Forum
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post #1771 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 07:33 PM
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Hello all,
I've got a 46" XBR 2. I returned the first one after seeing the clouds in the background on all dark shots. I just got a replacement, and am seeing a major backlight bloch in the lower left hand corner.

Here is a new one for you! My second XBR2 FROZE on my last night!!! (Never had a TV do that before). I went to adjust the volume and it simply wouldn't adjust. The volume banner froze on-screen. I unplugged it, restarted it and the speakers went pop and died!!! I just switched out all my cables from my home theater downstairs (off my 34" XBR 960) that I know work and the sound still won't return. I switched out my cable box, still no sound. I wented into all the menu's and hit "restore to factory defaults", still nothing. And get this, it suddenly won't reconize my Zenith DVB-318 DVD player on video 6 (component). When I turn it on and play a disc nothing will happen. I'm guessing this a software issue??

Has anyone else had the speakers suddenly die? Are these sets just junk or what? I love Sony, but why such a poor expensive product?

At this point the store that sold it to me is starting to get mad and blame me!

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
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post #1772 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 07:53 PM
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Seems these TVs are being assembled rather cheaply...

Bear Down!
See how your Blu-Ray movies stack up. Visit the Blu Ray Tier thread today.
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post #1773 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoos150 View Post

Seems these TVs are being assembled rather cheaply...

Open it up and check for Taco Sauce stains.
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post #1774 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 08:00 PM
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what do I do? The store is simply claiming that "no one else has had this issue out of the 100's of other TV's we have sold" and they tested my first set and "we found nothing to be wrong with it" (what a surprise, seeing they tested it in a bright room!!)

Return it and get something else (1080p Sony Mircodisplay or 720p Panasonic Plasma would be my second choice) or try another and let some hack from Sony service destroy it (like they did with my XBR910 which Sony replaced with a 960).

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
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post #1775 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 08:04 PM
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Picked up my 46XBR3 two weeks ago. No backlight cloudiness/blotchiness here. Could'nt be happier with my purchase.
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post #1776 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 08:12 PM
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These are coming out of mexico aren't they!! I just couldn't imagine any production line in Japan producing this defective junk. That is like buying a Lexus and seeing white bloches all over the paint. It just doesn't happen.

"PLEASE HELP STOP HDTV ABUSE! FEED YOUR HDTV AN HD SIGNAL!"
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post #1777 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 08:24 PM
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miniz: I would point your dealer to this forum and the XBR2 threads specifically. They show proof that people are having backlight issues with these sets. I brought my laptop into my dealer with example pictures (from this forum and some of my own) to show them. That's indisputable proof right there. Where did you buy yours? Here's the threads I monitor about the backlight issue. Search for my username. I've got pics up of my XBR2 backlight woes.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=683533

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707726

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=730172

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=738617

In my opinion electronics are going to have problems. That's just a fact of life. What's the most important to me is how the company that manufactures the product and the dealer that sells it to you handle problems. A really simple question to ask your sales guy is if they had spent this much on a set that was exhibiting this problem would they accept it? Very few people would say yes.
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post #1778 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 08:47 PM
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My xbr2 was delivered last wednesday. To my dismay, it too displays the 'cloudy' backlight problem in the upper left and lower right corners. I have noticed that the problem is less pronounced when the set is first turned on after a period of being off, but, within 15 minutes or so is fully acute.

As others have observed, the cloudiness is not noticable when there is bright or colored content on the screen. But it is especially obvious on input-switch, and during just about all dark scenes.

I spoke with the manager of the store where I purchased the set, who is arranging an exchange. However, he professed not to know about this issue.
I certainly don't think anyone who has paid several thousand dollars for a TV should accept a set with these kinds of defects. It just isn't right. A company shouldn't hang that kind of high price tag out there without realizing the expectations of the customers will be similarly high.

I really hope to get a better set with my exchange. Right now, my 32s2010 has a better picture; darker blacks, and completely uniform backlight level. That's just not right! It is certainly encouraging to read that at least a couple of posters have gotten exchanges that didn't have the problem. It's also good to read that a number of you have gotten good sets out-of-the-box.

I wonder what -- if anything -- can be inferred from the number of reports about backlighting flaws. It is obviously more than a freak problem, but how much more, I wonder? Sony seems to be selling the xbrs like hotcakes, certainly in the (tens of?) thousands. How many of those really have this issue? How many owners pay enough attention to notice?

I'm looking forward to reading about the resolution of more cloudy sets, whether by repair or exchange. I will certainly post my resolution, although it may take quite some time. The manager didn't know for certain when he would get a replacement set in the store...
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post #1779 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 08:56 PM
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Well said kraiggers. I have a 32S2000 and I agree with you completely about the darker blacks. Even a 46" JVC at my place of purchase had a uniform backlight level. I think you're correct in stating that a lot of 46XBR2 buyers, in most cases, wouldn't pay enough attention to notice the problem. I think if we make it a hot button issue and let resellers know it's a problem something will be done.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Sony doesn't know it's an issue. Call their customer service and open a ticket. Compose as much visual evidence as possible. I've got a few photos of my XBR2 that clearly showcase the problem. I'd recommend other users do the same.

I stand by the fact that the HD picture on this set is truly amazing. Unfortunately it's come to the point now that every time I see a dark scene in a movie or TV show I look for the clouds. I'd rather watch the movie or show.
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post #1780 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 10:04 PM
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MS knows, and apparently will address it soon:

It's in Major Nelson's Podcast released today.
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post #1781 of 3416 Old 11-06-2006, 11:19 PM
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Well I received my second XBR2 and noticed some major backlight leakage on the bottom right corner. Now, the first set was returned because of a problem unrelated to backlight. The weird thing is, my first one was one of the first units manufactured and the backlight seemed even throughout, I did not notice a single cloud. I got this new one, which was manufactured in September, and now it has all of these clouds going on. The manufacturing date might be totally unrelated, but I think people should post the manufacturing dates of their XBRs just to see if we come up with anything. It's on a sticker on the back of the panel.
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post #1782 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 12:49 AM
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just read this on ign's HDTV vol 19 LINK

From the article Q&A:

Q: I have a KDL46XBR2 Sony Bravia 46" XBR LCD HDTV and after reading your "Anatomy of a home theater " Part 1 article I went out and bought the VGA cables for my Xbox 360 as per your recommendation for 1080p. Well it turns out that colors look dull and washed out via VGA connection of the Xbox 360. Switching back and forth there was a huge difference in how vibrant colors are through component compared to VGA. Since I have a high end TV I know it's not an issue with my set (I tried many different adjustments and could not come close to component colors) and apparently many people have had the issue of poor/dull color from their Xbox 360 via VGA. Until Microsoft makes the proper software adjustments I don't believe VGA should be recommended over component.

Dominic

A: Sup D,

Your problems are actually a well known bug with the 1080p update for the Xbox 360. Apparently all Sony XBR2 and XBR3s have the problems you describe. There was a big freak out on the AVS forums the day the update was released, and the day after Microsoft acknowledged the issue and has pledged a fix, which should be out already.

The XBR2 and -3s can't accept 1080p via Component, so give the VGA another shot in the next week and it should be working, and giving you the full 1080p.

-Gerry
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post #1783 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garconis View Post

Hey all, I'm looking to get the Sony XBR3 Bravia 40" Flat Panel LCD HDTV.

I found a site called bestbuyplasma. Has anyone heard of them? Are they any good? They are selling it for cheap. Does anyone else have a reliable site for purchases? Or should I just use bestbuyplasma? I wanna make sure I'm getting a recent build of this TV, and one that is brand-new packaged from Sony. And maybe I will be getting an extended warranty. If I buy from a site besides Sony, is the extended warranty covered by Sony, or the place I buy it from (it included in-house repairs, etc.)

Thanks for any info!

I've heard of bestbuyplasma. They have a good eBay rating. I purchased my XBR3 from dealsouthonline through eBay - I had a great experience. I was reluctant to purchase online for all of the obvious reasons, but I got a great TV at a great price. DEFINITELY buy the warranty, but it probably isn't through Sony. You can ask to see the terms and conditions of the warranty before you buy it as well. I was told thatthe one year manufacturer's warranty also does not apply since I purchased the TV through a wholesaler and not a retailer. Not sure of this is true or not and I haven't tried to figure it out.
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post #1784 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by lukescerri View Post

Good question. I thought the same thing. I went out and bought one last weekend, and I dont regret it at all, and either will you. The thing is massive, and the picture is immaculate. SD, is fine, obviously not as good as HD or the BluRay they show in stores, but still ok. definitly now bad put it that way.

GO for it. Take the plunge.

I had purchased the Sony Bravia KDL-40S2010 which is the HD LCD they came out with the XBR series. I was so disappointed with the SD picture that I took it back. I then bought the XBR3 and the difference is exponential. You WILL NOT be disappointed in the SD picture of this TV.
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post #1785 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I stand by the fact that the HD picture on this set is truly amazing. Unfortunately it's come to the point now that every time I see a dark scene in a movie or TV show I look for the clouds. I'd rather watch the movie or show.

Absolutely agree, Swizzir. Picture is brilliant. But...even though my clouding is less pronounced than some of the photos posted, it still is all I look at/for during dark scenes. It is *very* distracting during a show like Battlestar (SD notwithstanding). Or, if an area of dark hair, for example, moves over the spot, it is also painfully noticable. Ugh.

I'm really quite bummed at the thought of getting a new set, and having the same problem. I *really* hope that doesn't happen.

It seems like there are reports of good and bad sets from a range of dates on this thread going all the way back. I get the feeling this is not limited to a range of serials, but rather a general issue with QC during manufacturing. I thought when I ordered mine, that perhaps the QC would have been worked out by now, but I guess not.

I have to say, it makes me pretty mad at Sony. Even if local dealers/service reps don't know about this, someone at Sony corporate and/or the plant itself knows and has chosen to release the sets anyway. They know exactly how many sets are returned for exchanges, and I get the feeling they don't much care in this case. Which probably tells us something about the profit margin on this set...

All of that being said, all I really want is a xbr2 with an appropriately uniform backlight, such that it doesn't bother me during dark scenes. I could really fall in love with this set, if I can just get a good one...
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post #1786 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budd99 View Post

The manufacturing date might be totally unrelated, but I think people should post the manufacturing dates of their XBRs just to see if we come up with anything. It's on a sticker on the back of the panel.

The manufacture date of my 46XBR2 is October 2006.
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post #1787 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 07:33 AM
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I agree with others on this thread. The picture is amazing. I actually never had cable or satellite - just an antenna. I hooked up the XBR2 to my existing aerial in my attic, and very pleasantly surprised to get about 20 HD channels from the air for free in my area (Central MA)! However, as others have said, I have slight but noticeable clouding about the size of a baseball in the upper left corner, only noticeable during dark scenes - almost tolerable, but there, nonetheless. I am hesitant to gamble returning to hope for a better replacement, and possibly be more disappointed by an even worse set. I may hold onto it for a while, see what occurs with replacements and response from Sony, and hope a confirmed solution will develop to guarantee that a good set comes later. I bought mine from BB with the full 4 year service plan.
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post #1788 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

The manufacture date of my 46XBR2 is October 2006.

Mine is also October 2006, and Made in Mexico.

I'm definitely going to return this tv Saturday, but not decided if I want to replace with another XBR2 or just get a refund.
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post #1789 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknower View Post

just read this on ign's HDTV vol 19 LINK

A: Sup D,

Your problems are actually a well known bug with the 1080p update for the Xbox 360. Apparently all Sony XBR2 and XBR3s have the problems you describe. There was a big freak out on the AVS forums the day the update was released, and the day after Microsoft acknowledged the issue and has pledged a fix, which should be out already.
-Gerry

That guy didnt even answer his question. The guy asked about the washed out colors, not about 1080p. The vga cable for the 360 has ALWAYS looked washed out, ALWAYS! This has been the case since the launch of the 360 and it is a bug in the vga "programming/engineering" side of things. The update issue he answered with just regards 1080p on the xbr2, nothing else.
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post #1790 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 07:41 AM
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I sent an e-mail to Sound and Vision magazine asking them if they've ever seen such a backlight problem. I think they would know because they review a lot of LCD displays. I included links to several threads here and a link to the photos I took of my cloudy set. I'll let you know if I hear back from them. I may e-mail Home Theater magazine too.
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post #1791 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

I sent an e-mail to Sound and Vision magazine asking them if they've ever seen such a backlight problem. I think they would know because they review a lot of LCD displays. I included links to several threads here and a link to the photos I took of my cloudy set. I'll let you know if I hear back from them. I may e-mail Home Theater magazine too.

Can I see the picture?
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post #1792 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcrash001 View Post

Can I see the picture?

its a couple of pages back

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post #1793 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 08:29 AM
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post #1794 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 08:45 AM
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It is hard to say for certain just from looking at photos, but the clouds on my xbr2 seem to be brighter than swizzir's, but more localized to the upper left and lower right corners.

I understand that making a 46" panel is probably a lot different and more difficult than making a 32" panel, but come on, Sony! You can't expect customers to accept a flagship panel [that costs three times as much!] to have worse PQ than a modest-price mid-size panel.

I'm trying hard to not let this situation get me too fired up. My irritation is definitely exacerbated by reading about others' experiences here. I'll try to get some pics of my panel and post them up soon...
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post #1795 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

Pics are here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8827575


Thanks, I just called Sony Customer Support and they gave me a number to authorized service center. I'm going to let technician to look at the problem, see what he thinks about the issue.
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post #1796 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 08:56 AM
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I think I just answered my own question. I just looked at the back of the TV and printed in bold letters is "made in MEXICO". I am now not the least bit surpised at the lack of quality and craftsmanship. The same thing that happened to most of VW/Audi in the car world is happening to Sony!!! Stop it Sony!!!!

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post #1797 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 09:11 AM
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It's like cars. Newly designed models, esp from certain manufacturers can have quality issues or bugs to be worked out. But even the Japanese can have quality control issues (note: Toyota).
These premium priced LCD panels are in larger sizes and with pixel counts never manufactured before. I hope Sony will address the uneven backlight issues. Since I don't see it on my 40XBR1, I don't think they can say it's 'inherent' in the technology like they do about bad pixels.

Is it only on the 46 XBR2s or also on the 40XBR2's?

I wonder what surprises the new Sony 52" LCDs may have.

Not sure if the Mexico comment is valid but also do you want to spend $500-1000 more more one made in Japan?
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post #1798 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miniz View Post

I think I just answered my own question. I just looked at the back of the TV and printed in bold letters is "made in MEXICO". I am now not the least bit surpised at the lack of quality and craftsmanship. The same thing that happened to most of VW/Audi in the car world is happening to Sony!!! Stop it Sony!!!!

HUH????

Poor quality because it is 'Made in Mexico'???
As an owner of the new Jetta TDI and a 40XBR3 I take offense at your statement.

My Jetta has been bulletproof and my XBR3 excellent.
Please save your bigotry for your favorite blog.

I see rainbows
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post #1799 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 09:21 AM
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I looked at a 40XBR2 at my dealer and didn't notice any problems. I also haven't read anyone complain about the 40. One other thing is that most XBR2 reviews I've read have been for the 40. So I think it's just 46 and maybe bigger. The Samsung's (LN-S4696D), from what I've read use the same panel as the Sony's, are also experiencing the same problem.
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post #1800 of 3416 Old 11-07-2006, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigaguy View Post

Not sure if the Mexico comment is valid but also do you want to spend $500-1000 more more one made in Japan?

Ummm, in a word, YES. At this price point, I would happily pay the premium for Japanese manufacture.

However, let's be honest here - we're talking about SONY, not a budget brand. We have all ALREADY paid a premium!!!

Sony is skating on the assumptions of high-end customers who are probably familiar with the historical quality of the xbr line. I assumed this set was made in Japan. I assumed it would meet my expectations.

Unfortunately, it did not, though maybe the next one will. And it never even occured to me that it was made in Mexico.

While it is certainly not impossible for Sony to have a great facility south of the border, I think our empirical experience [clouds everywhere!] indicates that something is definitely wrong with QC for this set, and Sony doesn't care enough to do something about it [yet?]. Presumably, the cost of exchanging set for those of us anal enough to demand it are more than covered by the cost savings of moving manufacture from Japan to Mexico.

Although I understand that calculation, I still find it an extraordinarily depressing thought. Talk about taking your customers for granted...
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