Syntax Olevia 532H BAD PQ on 480i/p sources - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE 11/8/2006: Syntax WILL NOT FIX THIS BUG! See end of thread for more info.

I wanted to break off this discussion from the rest. I am presuming that this defect will apply to all ATI based 5XX series Syntax Olevia, but I have no way of confirming at this time. The original conversation started here.

I believe this will include 527, and 532 models.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8230142


My setup is as follows right now.

Sony DVR for ATSC
Pannasonic RP-56 Progressive scan DVD
XBox
All connected through analog component ( only 1 port so I have to switch around).

532H Firmware A30-2.A19.A10.A01.A19

I have owned a Benq 6200 XGA DLP, Toshiba 42HXX ctr RPTV, and a Sony 1251 so I have some idea of what I'm looking for and the defect to which I am referring to.

Disclaimer: I like the HDTV PQ, it's great and I believe that Syntax will be able to correct in firmware this error

What I am seeing affects all inputs of 480p/i sources no matter how clean or input ( tried component and s-video )

1) Blurring / Noise reduction: This only affects motion and not static scenes. It's atrocious since it's low-grade and I can even see ghosting between scene cuts. Any NR worth it's salt should at least reset on scene changes!

2) Jumpy / motion weirdness: This is obvious enough that even my wife recognized it right away. It's probably more objectionable than the blurring since it really pulls you out of the image.

None of these problems affect up-scaling/HDTV on analog or digital inputs. Feeding the DVD into XBMC and playing at 720p produced a stellar picture that I could in no way complain about.

I tried to capture the effect with a dSLR on ISO1600 ~1/60'th of a second. You can clearly see in some shots up to 5 frames are being blurred together. Looking at the surrounding you can see it's not from camera shake, and from what I can see this is an accurate portrayal of what the motion blurring looks like.

Panasonic RP-56 Progressive scan through Component




Interference pattern seen on some of these is not seen on the TV, it's a problem of photographing a LCD with a CMOS camera.




I'll post some HDTV/up-scaling shots soon


NOTE: If someone wants access to the high resolution originals PM me and I'll send you the link, I don't want to trash the connection that they are on by posting them here. I don't think the defect is any less visible on these shots.

Eric

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post #2 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Added shots from nemo taken at 1/100'th of a second.

Eric

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post #3 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 12:47 PM
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Wow, that looks pretty bad! I think I'll wait a while before I order one. Thanks for the heads-up snowmoon.
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post #4 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 12:57 PM
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does the 537H have this problem? Also, I cannot see the nemo pic...

Jeff
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post #5 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 01:07 PM
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Have you tried 1/30th second? On your Dom Deloise shot it appears that you have electrical interference is there a power cord or RF cable touching your component input. The 537h has 2 HD component inputs. Haven't been able to duplicate the motion image problems.

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post #6 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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537 - Dunno, probably not since it's a different chipset

Interference.... no, the interference pattern is between the camera and the LCD, that red/green patter is not visible when I took the picture

Eric

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post #7 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 01:23 PM
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Well, if I had known about this yesterday, I would have waited before ordering my television. That being said, I sincerely hope that Syntax sees this as an opportunity to demonstrate their commitment to their products and their customers by acknowledging the problem and releasing a fix as soon as possible. This is one area where a smaller company can actually show its strengths by being responsive to it's customers needs much more quickly than very large companies are often able to do. I would rather have my TV work perfectly out of the box, but an effective response by Syntax to this problem will go along way towards building customer loyalty, at least in my case.
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post #8 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 01:24 PM
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Does anyone know what Syntax models use what chipset?

To my knowledge, the 3 and 5 series use two chipsets depending on size.

PixelMagic and ATI.

Which one is the problematic one, and what sizes use it?
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post #9 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Update

Called and spoke to techincal support. They will bring these images to engeneering.

Uploaded HDTV images, as you can see HDTV sources are unaffected and they are razor sharp.



Eric

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post #10 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmoon View Post

Update

Called and spoke to techincal support. They will bring these images to engeneering.

Snowmoon,

Thanks for gathering data and pursuing this with Syntax.
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post #11 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 01:30 PM
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We have 323, 527, 532, and 537s in stock. All are connected from the same source through audio authority 985s. Most are also hooked up to antenna.

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post #12 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notreally View Post

We have 323, 527, 532, and 537s in stock. All are connected from the same source through audio authority 985s. Most are also hooked up to antenna.

What firmware version, what resolution, what "mode" are you using?

Eric

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post #13 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

Does anyone know what Syntax models use what chipset?

To my knowledge, the 3 and 5 series use two chipsets depending on size.

PixelMagic and ATI.

Which one is the problematic one, and what sizes use it?

From the manuals:

The 3 series uses the Pixelworks chipset
The 527V and 532H use the ATI chipset
The 537, 540 and 542 use the MTK chipset
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post #14 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 05:17 PM
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so is the 537 all set? I want to place an order for this television, but I would obviously like to know about this problem...someone please let me know.
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post #15 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betweenthepipes View Post

so is the 537 all set? I want to place an order for this television, but I would obviously like to know about this problem...someone please let me know.

No, just 527 and 532 as far as we know.

Eric

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post #16 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 08:55 PM
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i will make sure this is brought up first thing monday morning.
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post #17 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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i will make sure this is brought up first thing monday morning.

I would be willing to work with anyone from the company to reprodce the problem and test any solutions.

Eric

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroChaos View Post

i will make sure this is brought up first thing monday morning.

Thank you. That is much appreciated.
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post #19 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmoon View Post

I would be willing to work with anyone from the company to reprodce the problem and test any solutions.


well i'll probably be using your images as a start :P
thanks for the work.
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post #20 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n4fw View Post

From the manuals:

The 3 series uses the Pixelworks chipset
The 527V and 532H use the ATI chipset
The 537, 540 and 542 use the MTK chipset

Really ... didn't realize this.

So it appears to be the ATI chipset.



Who is MTK???!?
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post #21 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 10:57 PM
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Don't these sets get throughly tested by QA before they are released to the general public?
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post #22 of 329 Old 08-18-2006, 11:48 PM
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yup, and something will always slip through the cracks.
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post #23 of 329 Old 08-19-2006, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I have every confidence that this can be fixed in firmware and the HDTV quality is great on this set. If I were to venture a guess I would say that the highest filtering setting are somehow being applied to all 480 sources rather than to just VCR or other low quality sources.

Eric

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post #24 of 329 Old 08-19-2006, 11:18 AM
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The good thing is that the firmware can be updated easily at home with a pc.
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post #25 of 329 Old 08-19-2006, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
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The good thing is that the firmware can be updated easily at home with a pc.

According to the Syntax website, the 532H firmware can be flashed with a 128MB flash drive formatted for FAT32. I actually think this better than updating by PC since it will work easily for people who don't use Windoze.

http://secure.syntaxgroups.com/web/f...erialentry.jsp
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post #26 of 329 Old 08-20-2006, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I can now confirm that the effect is not limited to analog sources. I have a Sony DVR and got a HDMI cable. If I set it up to 480p I can clearly see the effect on all type of video, but if I hardcode it to something higher like 720p or 1080i it appears to go away.

I think the same filtering is being applied to HD, but because the pixels are so much smaller the effect is not as bad on the picture. I can not get any pictures of the effect on HD.

I hope to start a dialog with syntax over the next week to get this issue resolved.

Eric

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post #27 of 329 Old 08-21-2006, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok here is what I know so far..

1) The severity of the effect is related to the input resolution. 480 lines is the most affected and 1080 is the least affected. While easily visible at 480 I have to strain to see it at 1080. It does not matter the input used. I have tried component, VGA, s-video and HDMI at this point.

2) It's not a problem with the panel itself. Running my PC through the VGA port at native resolution I was able to run synthetic benchmarks that show the panel was working perfectly with another gorgeous picture. I was unable to make the display do anything that was worthy of complaint.

As best I can figure it's some sort of default filtering that the ATI chip is doing, running the unit at 1080 or at native resolution will reduce the effect.

Eric

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post #28 of 329 Old 08-21-2006, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmoon View Post

Ok here is what I know so far..

1) The severity of the effect is related to the input resolution. 480 lines is the most affected and 1080 is the least affected. While easily visible at 480 I have to strain to see it at 1080. It does not matter the input used. I have tried component, VGA, s-video and HDMI at this point.

2) It's not a problem with the panel itself. Running my PC through the VGA port at native resolution I was able to run synthetic benchmarks that show the panel was working perfectly with another gorgeous picture. I was unable to make the display do anything that was worthy of complaint.

As best I can figure it's some sort of default filtering that the ATI chip is doing, running the unit at 1080 or at native resolution will reduce the effect.

Thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into resolving this issue. I'm sure we will all benefit. Now that I have given up my 8300HD Scientific Atlanta HD Cable box/PVR and watching purely 480i programming(QAM Cable and DVD), I see this flaw on everything. I am anxiously awaiting a Firmware update to fix this issue as its not something I can live with for very much longer. Otherwise, I'm afraid Syntax will need to take this set back and makes things right.
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post #29 of 329 Old 08-22-2006, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner View Post

Thank you for all the time and effort you are putting into resolving this issue. I'm sure we will all benefit. Now that I have given up my 8300HD Scientific Atlanta HD Cable box/PVR and watching purely 480i programming(QAM Cable and DVD), I see this flaw on everything. I am anxiously awaiting a Firmware update to fix this issue as its not something I can live with for very much longer. Otherwise, I'm afraid Syntax will need to take this set back and makes things right.

Ditto, I need to know by the end of the week or I'll have to bite the bullet and eat $150 on returning the set. It's really agravating since the set looks great on many sources, it's just this "clayface" filtering really bothers me.

I have 1 or 2 more things to try, but I think this will come down to Syntax releasing a firmware that correct the problem or exposes the probles setting to the users.

Eric

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post #30 of 329 Old 08-22-2006, 07:34 AM
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Yes, I should mention that besides this MAJOR issue which will hopefully be fixed soon, the set is about perfect in other regards. Even if Syntax simply released an updated Firmware which allowed one to turn on and off(or better yet set High, Medium, or Low) on the Noise Reduction - and I'm assuming like you that is what the issue is with - I would be Happy.
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