Official Sharp Aquos 42D62U/46D62U/52D62U Owner's Thread (NO PRICE TALK!) - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-12-2006, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tome View Post

I really don't think exchange will work. I am pretty sure it is an issue with all these panel.
-Tom

I fear the same. I'm just hoping those who are in the process of exchanging them will come back with positive news; but it's not looking good.

If this is the case, it totally crosses this panel off the list. I returned my Westy 47" because of the vertical banding.
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Old 10-12-2006, 03:52 PM
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I wrote a note to Sharp asking them to address this issue. We'll see if that and/or people returning sets for the issue get them to act. I hope so.

-Tom
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Old 10-12-2006, 03:53 PM
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For any that are curious, I spoke with Sharp CS and passed along the photo I had taken from my set. Their response was that they would normally schedule a service appointment for something like this, but since the set is so new they would recommend exchanging it at BB for a new one. They said if the new one exhibits the same problems, then they'll have a better idea that it's something wrong with the model line. She said mine was the first call she'd received on this set for any reason, not just banding.

Not that any of that is groundbreaking news, but what I took away from the conversation was that while it's too early to know how uniform of a problem this is, it seems Sharp will be receptive to any complaints as the rep I spoke with was very helpful and said she would be keeping the photo on file in case any more reports of the issue come in.

I hate making the proverbial "mountain out of a mole hill" but this is honestly my only problem with the set, so I'm hoping it can be resolved.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:02 PM
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Just got the 46" delivered today but still another week until my DTV HD gear gets installed. First glance (literally 5 minutes before I had to go to work) was that SD didn't look that great. Any opinions on optimizing the settings for SD?

My current flow is S-video from Ultimate TV Sat to Sony STR-DG800 receiver and component from receiver to TV (up coverted from S-video to component by receiver).

Is there any impact of this flow on PQ? For a short term fix, should I just go S-video direct to the TV (or avoid up-conversion in the receiver)?

-mvkajsk
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:03 PM
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This whole "banding" thing is slightly dissapointing condsidering these sets are coming from a new state of the art factory. I would have expected the backlighting and panel quality to be top notch. I wonder if there are some kinks to be worked out in the production process.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:11 PM
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Man you guys can analyze every pixels. can I say this panel or ANY other panel is perfect for that matter. NO!! I have yet to see a panel that is flawless. from sony xbr3 ( uneven patches when screen goes black to westinghouse off angle issues ) to plasma ( grainy, crushed blacks ) to noisy macroblock till u go blind samsungs ( minor red tones in blacks )

see my point, I can nitpick too. however I am TIRED!! I have been waiting over 2 years to get a set. Is this sharp perfect. It pretty damm close to it. sure the tech will improve.

I do see as you guys mentioned minor banding ie i have to blast the backlight and AV setting, run test patterns then nitpick. ( ok ok 2 dead pixies that I can spot 2 others faint) Great !! Grrrr. hehehe

love the set too much to care.

here are your pix

Gratuitis pr0n




bands in her hair are from camera noise. no nitpickin ! the little cameras tired.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:17 PM
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Except for the armpit hair she's pretty hot!
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvkajsk View Post

should I just go S-video direct to the TV (or avoid up-conversion in the receiver)?

-mvkajsk

Direct to the set forget the receiver.

CD

Reality Based.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:25 PM
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Is S-Video your only output? It's certainly not the best in general.

Doug
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Shinraven View Post

see my point, I can nitpick too. however I am TIRED!! I have been waiting over 2 years to get a set. Is this sharp perfect. It pretty damm close to it. sure the tech will improve.


That's cool. I'm glad you like it and as I say, I wish I had bought the damn thing before I read this thread! Now I can't though, I immediately see the bands.

On the other hand, the more people bring it to their attention the more likely they will do something about it.

I think you should haul that thing back to the store immediately! :-)

-Tom
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:02 PM
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which set you have Tome ?
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Shinraven View Post

which set you have Tome ?

I only have an old Panasonic 16:9 CRT (CT-34WX50) and a 22" Panasonic LCD (TC-22LH1). The 46" will mount on the wall inn my bedroom and displace the tiny LCD.

-Tom
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:16 PM
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I wonder if we may have some members that may not have the technical background to really understand what they are referencing is "Color Banding" or are you taking a term from PC Monitors and applying it to this TV - This Forum has a way of inventing it's own Definitions or reinventing terms to suit what they think they see that are found no where else in the Industry as pointed out by Dr. Raymond Soneira who did the LCos Shootouts and shared with us briefly on this Forum until he was driven away by novices that chose to undermine his contributions and insult him here so we no longer have his input - a known professional driven by members that possessed no credentials whatsoever to challenge his findings. He was the only one that was able to explain the cause of the Green Blob and he was trashed on this forum quite rudely and he's not returned for more abuse.

Below is an example of Color Banding and then a definition of what it is. Are those describing color banding sure you know what your describing is color banding or are any of you ISF trained to confirm it? I'd prefer to have UMR, ChadB or other pro ISF Calibrators confirm the issue versus people with no background spending 20 minutes in a store with crappy source and then post the crap here. I'll take Shinraven and Therese feedback as they are owners and have posted extensive evaluations and photo's to prove it rather than a lunchtime visit.

From Wikipedia et al

Color banding is a problem of inaccurate color presentation in computer graphics. While in 24 bit color modes, 8 bits per channel should be enough to render images in the full visible spectrum, in some cases there is a risk of producing abrupt changes between shades of the same color. For instance, displaying natural gradients (like sunsets, dawns or clear blue skies) can show minor banding.

Color banding is more present with relatively low bits per pixel at 16-256 colours (4-8 bpp), where not every shade can be shown because there aren't enough bits to represent them.

A possible solution is to introduce dithering, or increase the number of bits per channel.


Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:31 PM
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I fully admit to being a novice to color television technical terminology.

Look at the pictures, look at the panels themselves and feel free, as an expert, to correct my (admittedly) poor terminology.

I can only say that I look at the screen, I see a horizontal band about 1" or less wide running the length of the screen in a several postions. I call it a band, others have called it a band. Hence banding.

Perhaps it is magnetic dimming, perhaps it is induction induced luminance reduction, perhaps it is solar wind leakage (all tongue in cheek).

I don't know. I see a band, I call it a band. I am tired too. I wanted one of these. Call Sharp, help them identify and fix it. I don't build TVs for a living. They do.

-Tom
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:35 PM
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Tome this is what your seeing (quoted from projector central.com)

"LCD vertical banding-

On occasion, LCD projectors can manifest a problem known as vertical banding. Vertical banding consists of subtle (sometimes not so subtle) vertical bands often in the range of about 1-inch thick, evenly spaced across the entire picture. DLP projectors don't have this problem. Most LCD projectors don't eitherit is not an automatic byproduct of the technology. It is a flaw that can occur in the manufacturing process of the LCD panels themselves, and some LCD panels will tend to manifest it more noticeably than others. The panels that cause the most visible problems are usually weeded out in the vendor's quality control process. However, those that create just a hint of banding often pass through QC, since it is prohibitively expensive to discard all parts that exhibit flaws which may have no practical impact on picture quality. "
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandM View Post

Tome this is what your seeing (quoted from projector central.com)

"LCD vertical banding-

On occasion, LCD projectors can manifest a problem known as vertical banding. Vertical banding consists of subtle (sometimes not so subtle) vertical bands often in the range of about 1-inch thick, evenly spaced across the entire picture. DLP projectors don't have this problem. Most LCD projectors don't eitherit is not an automatic byproduct of the technology. It is a flaw that can occur in the manufacturing process of the LCD panels themselves, and some LCD panels will tend to manifest it more noticeably than others. The panels that cause the most visible problems are usually weeded out in the vendor's quality control process. However, those that create just a hint of banding often pass through QC, since it is prohibitively expensive to discard all parts that exhibit flaws which may have no practical impact on picture quality. "

Except that it is horizontal, but yeah....
-Tom
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:40 PM
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Just got back from BB with the new TV in the back of the minivan. They finally got them in the stores on Wednesday from the warehouse here in MD. Yet they are not on display yet. Will give pics and details tomorrow afternoon. Time for a long evening.
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tome View Post


I don't know. I see a band, I call it a band.

-Tom

Amen.
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

I wonder if we may have some members that may not have the technical background to really understand what they are referencing is "Color Banding" or are you taking a term from PC Monitors and applying it to this TV - This Forum has a way of inventing it's own Definitions or reinventing terms to suit what they think they see that are found no where else in the Industry as pointed out by Dr. Raymond Soneira who did the LCos Shootouts and shared with us briefly on this Forum until he was driven away by novices that chose to undermine his contributions and insult him here so we no longer have his input - a known professional driven by members that possessed no credentials whatsoever to challenge his findings. He was the only one that was able to explain the cause of the Green Blob and he was trashed on this forum quite rudely and he's not returned for more abuse.

Below is an example of Color Banding and then a definition of what it is. Are those describing color banding sure you know what your describing is color banding or are any of you ISF trained to confirm it? I'd prefer to have UMR, ChadB or other pro ISF Calibrators confirm the issue versus people with no background spending 20 minutes in a store with crappy source and then post the crap here. I'll take Shinraven and Therese feedback as they are owners and have posted extensive evaluations and photo's to prove it rather than a lunchtime visit.

From Wikipedia et al
[indent]Color banding is a problem of inaccurate color presentation in computer graphics. While in 24 bit color modes, 8 bits per channel should be enough to render images in the full visible spectrum, in some cases there is a risk of producing abrupt changes between shades of the same color. For instance, displaying natural gradients (like sunsets, dawns or clear blue skies) can show minor banding.

You simply will not accept anything but positive feedback about this line of TVs, eh?

I don't think it's any coincidence that you're happy to have feedback from Therse and Shinraven, when their reviews of the set fall in line with what you're hoping to get from it too. Everyone but those who think favorably of this set must also be called into question, right? As far as I know, Shinraven and Therse aren't ISF-certified either. So why aren't you questioning their impressions as well?
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda1 View Post

You simply will not accept anything but positive feedback about this line of TVs, eh?

I can see why, I've had my d5u for a year and 3 months and I've yet to see a problem. When I read these problems is a little disheartning because I know mine doesn't have any issues. I would have to see these problems first hand then make an evaluation.

I know first hand when a TV has problems my first HDTV had it and boy was it not fun. But from reasonable members here there feedback has been positive.

Now I know you called the XBR the rolls royce of tv's and if you were serious you'd would have bought the XBR. I know you weren't serious about buying a new TV you told me so, so I would let up and you told me your not looking for a new tv.

Let each member decide if its right or not.

These are just my opinions.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

I can see why, I've had my d5u for a year and 3 months and I've yet to see a problem. When I read these problems is a little disheartning because I know mine doesn't have any issues. I would have to see these problems first hand then make an evaluation.

I know first hand when a TV has problems my first HDTV had it and boy was it not fun. But from reasonable members here there feedback has been positive.

Now I know you called the XBR the rolls royce of tv's and if you were serious you'd would have bought the XBR. I know you weren't serious about buying a new TV you told me so, so I would let up and you told me your not looking for a new tv.

Let each member decide if its right or not.

The XBR has vastly superior color decoding and better blacks next to the D62U series. It has bad response time, though. I tested both sets out rather extensively with a 360 a day or so ago at BB (both game and movie content). My final conclusion is that I don't think either line of TVs are worth the asking price. That said, if I HAD to buy a flat panel, I'd probably buy a 46D62U. I like its smoothness and I like its reponse time w/ fine motion. I still contend that the set has an almost unacceptable amount of red push/hue that doesn't seem defeatable with the user settings. I simply do not believe - nor do I agree - with anyone who says otherwise. I trust my own eyes. I certainly trust them even more now after getting used to my ISF-calibrated XBR 960. I also don't need someone like Westa - who's not an expert, btw - telling me that my opinion - simply because its partially negative - is invalid, because it's not what he wants to hear.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:16 PM
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Yoda,
You have made it sound like your in the market for a TV when I know otherwise. Sure your intitled to your opinion but others should know your not looking.

These are just my opinions.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:19 PM
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I don't think the "banding" we are discussing here is "color banding."

It more like a "LCD vertical banding" issue (or horizontal banding).
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

Yoda,
You have made it sound like your in the market for a TV when I know otherwise. Sure your intitled to your opinion but others should know your not looking.

I was hoping a 1080p set of some kind would catch my attention before the arrival of the PS3. None of them have really jumped out at me. And, to clear things up,I never once told you that I'm not in the market for a TV.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda1 View Post

The XBR has vastly superior color decoding and better blacks next to the D62U series. It has bad response time, though. I tested both sets out rather extensively with a 360 a day or so ago at BB (both game and movie content). My final conclusion is that I don't think either line of TVs are worth the asking price. That said, if I HAD to buy a flat panel, I'd probably buy a 46D62U. I like its smoothness and I like its reponse time w/ fine motion. I still contend that the set has an almost unacceptable amount of red push/hue that doesn't seem defeatable with the user settings. I simply do not believe - nor do I agree - with anyone who says otherwise. I trust my own eyes. I certainly trust them even more now after getting used to my ISF-calibrated XBR 960. I also don't need someone like Westa - who's not an expert, btw - telling me that my opinion - simply because its partially negative - is invalid, because it's not what he wants to hear.




I do respect your comments and opinions. We all tend to see things differently, it seems. In 2 different stores I have adjusted both the Pioneer 5070 (an excellent plasma) and the lcd Sharp 52" to look 'very much alike. And I can assure you that skin color was very pleasant with both sets..on a number of people. I saw no red push in either display..after working with each for a short time. In fact, both sets looked very similar. I believe both of these tvs rank very high in todays' market. The 5070 is probably a better buy because it is hundreds less in cost. The 1080p resolution looks about same as 720p on source material from....OTA, cable, Directv and Dishtv. The 1080p set would pull ahead (resolution), somewhat, with superior 1080p material.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:31 PM
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Yoda - A statement like:

Quote:


"I still contend that the set has an almost unacceptable amount of red push/hue that doesn't seem defeatable with the user settings. I simply do not believe - nor do I agree - with anyone who says otherwise"

doesn't really help move this discussion forward - especially considering you just played around with the set at a BB. Let's wait for someone to get the set ISF calibrated before final conclusions are made regarding red push. Until then, I'll reserve the right to value the opinions of the folks who have actually bought the set higher than yours.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathor View Post

Yoda - A statement like:



doesn't really help move this discussion forward - especially considering you just played around with the set at a BB. Let's wait for someone to get the set ISF calibrated before final conclusions are made regarding red push. Until then, I'll reserve the right to value the opinions of the folks who have actually bought the set higher than yours.

Yet no owners in this thread have demonstrated what specific steps they've taken to get rid of the red push. They just say that they've 'dialed it in' to their satisfaction or something or other. I trust my eyes. When ChadB came to my house to calibrate my 960, he said it was one of the best adjusted TVs he'd ever seen. But oh well, we see what we see.
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda1 View Post

The XBR has vastly superior color decoding and better blacks next to the D62U series. It has bad response time, though. I tested both sets out rather extensively with a 360 a day or so ago at BB (both game and movie content). My final conclusion is that I don't think either line of TVs are worth the asking price. That said, if I HAD to buy a flat panel, I'd probably buy a 46D62U. I like its smoothness and I like its reponse time w/ fine motion. I still contend that the set has an almost unacceptable amount of red push/hue that doesn't seem defeatable with the user settings. I simply do not believe - nor do I agree - with anyone who says otherwise. I trust my own eyes. I certainly trust them even more now after getting used to my ISF-calibrated XBR 960. I also don't need someone like Westa - who's not an expert, btw - telling me that my opinion - simply because its partially negative - is invalid, because it's not what he wants to hear.


how was the fine motion option with videogames?
Did it make a difference.

I asked this before, & I'll ask this now
HAS anyone tried going into the service menu, maybe there is a way to tone down the red in there.

The 37" Vizio had a MASSIVE green push & going to the service menu & toning down the green pretty much fixed that.
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:15 PM
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How about if owners post their settings showing the all of the critical settings they are using to help others out (whether you just got one or you want to try some settings at the store - I know, lighting, source, etc are all different, but it's a starting point).

We know everybody's settings are going to be different. That's ok. Maybe with a lot, we'll get an average that makes for a good starting/demo point.

I don't own one of the Sharps yet (would like to get the 46" LC-46D62U), but here's what the Menu's have in them ...


Picture:
Mode = [Dynamic | ?]
OPC [On | Off]
Backlight [ +/- ##]
Contrast [+/- ##]
Brightness [+/- ##]
Color [+/- ##]
Tint [+/- ##]
Sharpness [+/- ##]

Advanced:
Color Temp [Low|Mid-Low|Middle|Mid-High|High]
Black [On|Off]
3D-Y/C [?]
Monochrome [?]
Film Mode [On|Off]
Range of OPC Range [ Max ##], [Min ##]


Option:
Digital Noise Reduction [High ?]




QUESTION: Which menu item puts it in PC mode (Ex. dot for dot - although I believe it's in dot for dot all of the time)?



Thanks for everybody's opinions (Good or Bad or Different) They are all valid data points.
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinraven View Post

I do see as you guys mentioned minor banding ie i have to blast the backlight and AV setting, run test patterns then nitpick. ( ok ok 2 dead pixies that I can spot 2 others faint) Great !! Grrrr. hehehe

I reported in the other Sharp thread my first observations. I had not read about the banding before going in so when I did see it I was surprised. I did not look for it.

It was a 52 at BB. I adjusted the backlight down and it was easily visible when there is a light background on the screen. A typical scene hides it, but just like the SSE in rear projection, when it hits you notice it - and there goes the whole experience of being immersed in the story.

Its a nice TV, I hope the banding is not typical. But to me it is a big deal, not sure if its workable.
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