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post #1 of 73 Old 10-24-2006, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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About 2 or 3 weeks ago a thin, vertical black line showed up on my 32in Samsung LCD. A Tech from Samsung came to take a look at it today and said, basically it was from watching 4:3 content for too long a time and there was nothing he could do. Great.

He called it image rotation or resistance er something. I coulnt really understand what he was saying. (he had a very thick Russian accent). Ive had my tv since April and all I heard when I was researching before I bought it was "LCDs dont suffer from burn in..etc". So I did some googling and found a few things they may help. For instance: Leaving the TV off for a few hours or days? Or leaving a soild color in the screen for an extended period of time. Not sure if either of these would work so Id just like to see if anyone hear has any suggestions.

Thanks
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post #2 of 73 Old 10-24-2006, 06:49 PM
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I've never heard of image retention on an LCD. My LCD laptop monitor has been running Internet Explorer on it for the last 5 years almost exclusively, and there is no image retention in any of the corners or anything.
In your shoes I'd call up customer service for your TV if you are still under warranty. Give them enough hell and they will cave, because what you are describing is just not right.
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post #3 of 73 Old 10-24-2006, 06:55 PM
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I had a zenith tv/monitor that had the windows taskbar burned in after 6 months of use. LCD can burn-in under certain circumstances.

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post #4 of 73 Old 10-24-2006, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markolc81 View Post

I've never heard of image retention on an LCD. My LCD laptop monitor has been running Internet Explorer on it for the last 5 years almost exclusively, and there is no image retention in any of the corners or anything.
In your shoes I'd call up customer service for your TV if you are still under warranty. Give them enough hell and they will cave, because what you are describing is just not right.


Yeah, It DOESNT sound right. I mean, for them to just blow me off and tell me its my fault just isnt right.
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post #5 of 73 Old 10-24-2006, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugdish69 View Post

I had a zenith tv/monitor that had the windows taskbar burned in after 6 months of use. LCD can burn-in under certain circumstances.

Technically impossible. LCDs do not suffer from burn-in. Burn-in is the result of a damaged pixel, whose phosphors has been prematurely aged and therefore glows. LCDs do not have phosphor so can not experience "burn-in".

LCDs can experience imagage persistance. This is a defect in the pixels where they do not fully forget values displayed in the past.

LCD image persistance is nearly always reversable. Create a solid white screen with powerpoint, paint etc. , copy it to a CD and have the white screen displayed on your TV for a few hours. This should do it.
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post #6 of 73 Old 10-24-2006, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bykes View Post

Yeah, It DOESNT sound right. I mean, for them to just blow me off and tell me its my fault just isnt right.

Most plasma AND LCD user manuls warn against leaving a static image on the screen.
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post #7 of 73 Old 10-24-2006, 08:54 PM
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Hmm, I mean, why on earth are PC manufacturers using LCD technology for their notebooks, PDAs, and desktops, then? I mean, plasma and CRT rear projections are the only two technologies you should be concerned about. LCDs (both flat panel, and rear projection), DLPs, and LCoS don't have that issue, I don't believe. Then again, the S-PVA panel's a bit different from most LCD panels, so that would be hard to tell.

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post #8 of 73 Old 10-24-2006, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Create a solid white screen with powerpoint, paint etc. , copy it to a CD and have the white screen displayed on your TV for a few hours.

Ill give that a try and leave it up over night. Ive been reading more and more about the issue with LCD image retension. Every thing I read says it shouldn't be a permanent thing. Im gonna cross my fingers and hope this works.
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post #9 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bykes View Post

Ill give that a try and leave it up over night. Ive been reading more and more about the issue with LCD image retension. Every thing I read says it shouldn't be a permanent thing. Im gonna cross my fingers and hope this works.

Let us know if it worked
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post #10 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nmlobo View Post

Let us know if it worked

It didnt. Left it on all night and the line is still there.
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post #11 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 02:48 PM
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A 'thin vertical black line' really doesn't sound like IR (to me). I would think IR would be the entire 'picture frame' that surrounds a 4:3 display. Can you post a picture?
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post #12 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmlobo View Post

A 'thin vertical black line' really doesn't sound like IR (to me). I would think IR would be the entire 'picture frame' that surrounds a 4:3 display. Can you post a picture?

I will a little later.
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post #13 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmlobo View Post

A 'thin vertical black line' really doesn't sound like IR (to me). I would think IR would be the entire 'picture frame' that surrounds a 4:3 display. Can you post a picture?


This has nothing to do with burn in, sound like to me the LCD driver chip for that segment of the screen is no longer working or the LCD panel itself is no longer working. As for the tech from samsung, I'd call samsung ask for a manager and then read them the riot act. I've never heard of such a BS answer! As for those people who say manuals talk about burn in LCD, that's nothing more then some tech writer cutting and pasting sections from legacy CRT manuals. You've got a bad product that should be covered under warranty and I'd bitch up a storm to samsung!
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post #14 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 04:01 PM
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A thin vertical black line is a component failure that's a fairly common failure mode with LCDs, not burn-in, as a couple of other people have already said. The tech you talked to was BSing you.

However LCDs can and do burn in under extreme circumstances. It doesn't happen in normal use, but I've been shown that LCDs left continuously on a static display in the store for months clearly retain the fixed image when switched to a different picture. I don't know the mechanism - certainly it's not the same as phosphor burn-in - maybe it's the liquid crystal decaying somehow.
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post #15 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 05:26 PM
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This has been a known problem with LCD panels for quite some time. Here are several white papers/weblinks on the subject:

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations....ERSISTENCE.pdf

http://www.plasma-usa.com/screen%20b...enburn_NEC.pdf

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88343

http://www.viewsonic.com/support/qa....cd&question=09

It is impossible for anyone to say with any certainty whether this is permanent or not. It caused by an Ionic (or Magnetic) charge around the pixels electrode. Once a field is created, how do you get rid of a magnetic field???

On page 2 of most 2006 Samsung owners' manuals they worn of the dangers that a static image can cause an LCD panel (not pointing fingers at you, simply mention it for education).

It appears that the higher the panel resolution or the larger the display, the easier it persists (perhaps the magnetic field of the larger power supply/closer electrodes in 1080p panels).

I would go to the store you bought the panel from and demand a refund (if they promote LCD displays for their lack of Burn-in). After all, they said it wouldn't burn, and it did (can't blame Samsung, they advised of the problem in the manual).

-Matt
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post #16 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Look to the right of the screen.
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post #17 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 07:08 PM
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When you play 4:3 content, is that the point were the Pillar bars begin?

It really does look like a persisted image.
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post #18 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 07:16 PM
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i have seen it happen on a westighouse lcd before, but i have never seen a brand like samsung or any1 else have that problem.
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post #19 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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When you play 4:3 content, is that the point were the Pillar bars begin?

yes.
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post #20 of 73 Old 10-25-2006, 09:11 PM
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I had the same thing happen on my first Dell LCD TV. It was the left side and not the right though. Some LCD can "burn-in" (image persistance perhaps technically, but the end result is similar to phosphor burn in on other displays).
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post #21 of 73 Old 10-26-2006, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh well I guess Ill chock it up to my own retardedness. I live in a small apartment and when I get a house in a few years I plan on getting a bigger tv(probably DLP) anyway. This one will hang on the wall in the bedroom.
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post #22 of 73 Old 10-30-2006, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3001 View Post

i have seen it happen on a westighouse lcd before, but i have never seen a brand like samsung or any1 else have that problem.

My Westinghouse 42w2 just developed the same problem. Last night was the first time I notice that line and it's on the same side (right) of the screen. Time to call BB and see what they say. I have a 4 year extended warranty on this model.
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post #23 of 73 Old 11-05-2006, 08:47 AM
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Has anyone sucessfully used the White image to correct this problem?

I have heard of some others threads where they recommend using a Black image instead of white? (But yet to see if anyone had sucessful results with either)

Which is better to use to correct? (Black Image or White)?
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post #24 of 73 Old 11-05-2006, 09:00 AM
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I wouldn't be happy with the guy not taking it for repair, if you weren't told anywhere in the manual about the issue and still have it under warranty you have every right to demand a replacement or repair.
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post #25 of 73 Old 11-05-2006, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmlobo View Post

Burn-in is the result of a damaged pixel, whose phosphors has been prematurely aged and therefore glows.

I think you mean 'glows less brightly than the other normal pixels'. To me it sounds like you are saying the burnt pixel will glow brighter than the others.
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post #26 of 73 Old 11-05-2006, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Currently Im trying to fix it. Im leaving my tv on 24/7 with 16:9 video in it. I also got the PixelProtector dvd and running the screen washes for a few hours at a time. The line seems to be becoming less noticeable, but I can tell its going to take some time for it to be completely gone. Maybe over a month.
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post #27 of 73 Old 11-05-2006, 01:19 PM
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At risk of repeating, a single vertical black line is a component failure, not burn-in. You can leave it on a white screen until next year, and it won't do any good unless the failed component spontaneously recovers. That does happen, but usually only temporarily.

It is possible for LCDs to get a type of burn in (there are some technical papers describing the mechanism as accumulation of impurities in the liquid crystal), but it really takes a lot of effort, and it certainly doesn't look like a vertical line.
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post #28 of 73 Old 11-05-2006, 01:52 PM
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I have a ilo 26" that developed the same problem on the left side. Right where the 4:3 breaks at. The line was really dark at one point. I took some advice and started watching all TV in 16:9 and used the standard picture quality setting instead of the modified brightness level that I was using because the normal picture is to dark for me.

The line has now faded quite a bit but is still visible when watching dvd's. Another problem is watching TV in 16:9, is really starting to bug me. People just look to odd. Anyway I hope that all the 16:9 watching will soften the line even more. Bu I doubt it will ever go away.
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post #29 of 73 Old 11-05-2006, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amesdp View Post

At risk of repeating, a single vertical black line is a component failure, not burn-in. You can leave it on a white screen until next year, and it won't do any good unless the failed component spontaneously recovers. That does happen, but usually only temporarily.

It is possible for LCDs to get a type of burn in (there are some technical papers describing the mechanism as accumulation of impurities in the liquid crystal), but it really takes a lot of effort, and it certainly doesn't look like a vertical line.

If you can give me a link to some info on this Id love to see it. A Samsung Tech did come to my apartment and tell me it was IR. If I can give more of an argument to Samsung to actually fix my tv Id love to be armed with some info.
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post #30 of 73 Old 02-04-2007, 09:02 PM
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Hey, anybody have a solution or "for sure" reason for this problem yet? I just started noticing the same thing on my Sceptre 37", but on the left side. I wouldn't call it black, but definitely darker. When on the Windows desktop (blue), you can see it as blue-gray. When watching superbowl, the field (green) you could sometimes see it as darker, even from several feet back. Other scenes (different colors) you can't notice it at all. Most people would not notice it unless they know what and where to look (kind of like that one blue pixel I have). But that pixel is too small to see from where I sit, the line however isn't and I'm worried it could get worse.

Mine doesn't seem to exactly line up with the 4:3 line though, but I think that can vary sometimes.

I notice when I power mine on (after being off overnight),you can't notice it right away but after a few minutes you can. I'm going to try running white screen overnight to see if it helps, but I think like a poster said above it will still be there. I took my first Sceptre back due to this same discoloration, but it was a in upper right and wasn't a distinct line, but more of irregular lines 4" long, rather than a uniform line more or less full vertical length. But the colors were exactly the same.

Mine seems very similar to picture above.

A good way to see this problem is put on a white screen and adjust contrast down.

It seems this may be on LCDs from different brands, so I'm kind of lost as to why there isn't a clearcut answer to this.
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