Sony V2500 Calibration and Reference Information - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 520 Old 10-30-2006, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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The purpose of this thread is to post calibration, test, and other useful reference information regarding the Sony 1080p V2500 (and V25L1) series HDTV LCD's which can be easily located rather than being buried among general discussion posts.

The main discussion thread for these sets is at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=702114.

An excellent and extensive FAQ posted by garsh is located here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9607046
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post #2 of 520 Old 10-30-2006, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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[Note: post copied from main V2500 discussion thread]

V2500 PC/Laptop HDMI and VGA testing/calibration

I. Resolutions

VGA (horizontal x vertical, aspect ratio):

1400 x 1050p, full
1280 x 768p, wide
1280 x 1024p, full
1024 x 768, full
800 x 600, full
640 x 480, full

Note: nvidia set to Discrete Monitor Timing (DMT) for the above. Choose Auto Adjust on V2500.

DVI->HDMI:

1920 x 1080p, wide
accepts lower input resolutions


II. Grayscale calibration using "Reference White (Black) Calibrator 1280x768.gif"

VGA:

Default settings calibrated. Display Mode = Text, Backlight = 3, Picture = 80, Brightness = 50, Color Temp = Neutral.

DVI->HDMI:

Standard: Backlight = 3, Picture = 80, Brightness = 65, Color = 50, Temp = Neutral.

Custom: Backlight = 3, Picture = 80, Brightness = 70, Color = 50, Temp = Neutral. Advanced: Color Space = Wide, all else off.

Note: Sharpness = Min and Noise Reduction = Off for Standard and Custom. When Picture or Brightness is pushed past around 80, it causes the white scale to begin to appear beige rather than gray/silver. This happens with both the HDMI and VGA input. The Brightness settings seem precise. A change to a lower value caused the background to appear to change. All bars, black and white, between 0 and 255 show up with Custom. Standard is very close, and its Brightness is the best for it. I don't know why Standard and Custom differ slightly, but they do. All settings in Advanced for Custom are off except Color Space set to Wide, and it doesn't account for the Brightness setting difference. In any case, Custom seems best, and Standard is very, very close.


III. Calibration using the GetGray DVD and PowerDVD

VGA: Black went up to reference black (16), white down to reference white (235).

DVI->HDMI: The same as for VGA.

Note: DVD software players (at least PowerDVD) appear to automatically set Video RGB levels.


IV. Testing using the Phillips Test Pattern Generator at 1280 x 768, zoom normal or full.

VGA: Failed the multi-burst and cross talk patterns. There were dramatic, headache inducing, shimmering and column-creating effects with vertical bars as large as 5:5 white to black pixels. No such effect was seen for horizontal bars. Think of a box with thin black (or white) vertical bars. Instead of appearing gray due to the pattern, the box shimmered and appeared to be a series of columns with alternating very dark vertical and white bands.

HDMI: Passed all tests including the above. Single pixel vertical lines appeared solid and created a uniform gray appearance at a distance. Zooming showed minimal scaling effects, only those to be expected at a single pixel level (you can't scale to a fraction of a pixel).


V. Conclusion

DVI->HDMI input on the V2500 is superior to its VGA input at the same resolution due to vertical noise/cross-talk. VGA shows its analog nature even with heavy gauge cables. No problems were seen with the DVI->HDMI input which appeared stable, crisp and clear while matching patterns 1-1 down to the single pixel level.


VI. Reference Links

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/...Generator.shtml

 

reference calibrator 1280x720.zip 131.4365234375k . file
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post #3 of 520 Old 10-31-2006, 07:56 AM
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This was posted by ursa99 on the Owner's thread. I hope he doesn't mind my pasting it over here. Perhaps this is more User Settings, but in the same general information category.

Quote:


As far as settings go this is an ongoing process although I've slowed a bit lately. Your setting will vary depending on what input you use. I'll share those that I have for HDMI.

Backlight 4
Picture 69
Brightness 51
Color 47
Hue G 3
Temp Neutral
Sharpness 15
Noise Reduction Off

Advanced:

Black Corrector Off
Advanced C.E. Off
Gamma Low
Clear white Off
Color space Normal
MPEG Noise reduction Off

Your particular set and source material may require different settings. I found that initially I was watching a very bright pict but when I toned things down a bit the colors and detail got a lot better. Everyone has their own preference so whatever looks good to you is what is best.

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post #4 of 520 Old 10-31-2006, 08:07 AM
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This was posted by LushMojo on the XBR2/3 owners' thread. The information might be useful. You'll note that he set DRC modes to OFF -- since the V2500 doesn't have DRC2.5 this is inapplicable.

Quote:


Initially, I had just about every feature enabled and had settings for digital cable, upscaling DVD and Xbox 360 like this:

Picture Mode Custom

Backlight : Max
Picture : 50
Brightness : 50
Color : 48
Hue : 0
Color Temp : Neutral
Sharpness : 50
Noise Reduction : High
DRC Mode : Mode 1
DRC Palette
Reality : 50
Clarity : 50
Advanced settings
Black Corrector : Medium
Advanced C.E. : High
Gamma : Low
Clear White: High
Live Color : Off
Color Space : Normal
White Balance (defaults)
Detail Enhancer : Max
Edge Enhancer : High

However, I've changed these settings and I'm VERY much happier with my current picture on each input. Right now my settings are:

Picture Mode Custom

Backlight : Max
Picture : 50
Brightness : 53
Color : 48
Hue : 0
Color Temp : Cool
Sharpness : 60
Noise Reduction : Medium
DRC Mode : Off
DRC Palette (Disabled due to DRC Mode = Off)
Reality : DRC Off
Clarity : DRC Off
Advanced settings
Black Corrector : Low
Advanced C.E. : Low
Gamma : Low
Clear White: Off
Live Color : Off
Color Space : Normal
White Balance (defaults)
Detail Enhancer : Off
Edge Enhancer : Off

The only other distinct setting I have is Game Mode = On for the Xbox 360 input.

Our viewing distance is about 9 ft.

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post #5 of 520 Old 10-31-2006, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Inputs
1. S Video + Composite Video + L and R RCA Audio
2. S Video + Composite Video + L and R RCA Audio (on side)
3. Composite Video + L and R RCA Audio
4. Component (Y Pb Pr) + L and R RCA Audio
5. Component (Y Pb Pr) + L and R RCA Audio
6. HDMI + L and R RCA Audio
7. HDMI
8. VGA (RGB) + Audio jack

Outputs
Digital Out (Optical) Audio
L and R RCA Audio
Headphones jack Audio

Capabilities
HDMI: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
Component (Y Pb Pr): 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
VGA (RGB): 640 x 480, 800 x 600, 1024 x 768, 1280 x 768, 1360 x 768, 1280 x 1024, 1400 x 1050
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post #6 of 520 Old 10-31-2006, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I calibrated using the GetGray Calibration DVD on my LiteOn DVD Player/Recorder using a component input (input 5).

Later I ran across CNET's Calibration for HD-DVD using HDMI. I was surprised at the close match (esp. since it was my first attempt at calibration). I think this shows the fundamental similarity of the XBR2/3's and V2500's. Note also the similarity between component and HDMI and a DVD and HD-DVD source.

CNET's calibration for the XBR2 in a dark room with a 1080i HDMI source, the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_KDL_40X...ag=tip-2506754

Below are CNET's settings and my settings in parentheses:

Mode: custom
Backlight: 3 (4)
Picture: 93 (98)
Brightness: 56 (Avia 46 to 56 GetGray)
Color: 50 (46)
Hue: 0 (0)
Color Temp: warm2 (neutral)
Sharpness: 33 (minimum)
Noise reduction: off (off)

Advanced settings

Black corrector: off (off)
Advanced C.E.: off (off)
Gamma: low (off or low)
Clear white: off (off)
Live color: off (off)
Color space: normal (wide -- but not sure)

Display area: full pixel (full pixel)

Power saving: low (low)
Light sensor: off (on)

Comment: The XBR2/3's may have different sharpness settings than the V2500's. I wouldn't set our sharpness that high -- the default is 15 and that's too high. I'd recommend Min or at least 10 or below. Re: Color Temp., Warm 2 may be better. I didn't calibrate colors, only grey scales.

Update: Using Avia, calibrated Brightness to 46 using Avia (from 56 using GetGray previously).
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post #7 of 520 Old 11-01-2006, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

DVI->HDMI:

Standard: Backlight = 3, Picture = 80, Brightness = 65, Color = 50, Temp = Neutral.

Custom: Backlight = 3, Picture = 80, Brightness = 70, Color = 50, Temp = Neutral. Advanced: Color Space = Wide, all else off.

Note: Sharpness = Min and Noise Reduction = Off for Standard and Custom. When Picture or Brightness is pushed past around 80, it causes the white scale to begin to appear beige rather than gray/silver. This happens with both the HDMI and VGA input. The Brightness settings seem precise. A change to a lower value caused the background to appear to change. All bars, black and white, between 0 and 255 show up with Custom. Standard is very close, and its Brightness is the best for it. I don't know why Standard and Custom differ slightly, but they do. All settings in Advanced for Custom are off except Color Space set to Wide, and it doesn't account for the Brightness setting difference. In any case, Custom seems best, and Standard is very, very close.

Did you happen to try the "Clear White" function to offset the off-whites at higher "picture" settings?


ron
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post #8 of 520 Old 11-01-2006, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R11 View Post

Did you happen to try the "Clear White" function to offset the off-whites at higher "picture" settings?ron

I did with the HDMI and VGA settings. When calibrating VGA and HDMI (see earlier post), I noticed the whites turned a beige color when Picture was pushed too high. I tried the Clear White but it seemed to not give the right color (in comparison to what I was seeing on my laptop's lcd screen -- kind-of silver instead of grey). Instead, w/ those settings I just kept Picture below that "beige" threshold. Actually, the default settings for VGA nailed the calibration grey-scale. And, I made the HDMI match that.

I'll have to re-examine the DVD settings since I did them before noticing that effect. But it surprised me how closely they matched (in the ballpark) cnet's calibration. Maybe the Clear White might be useful -- though cnet has it off.
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post #9 of 520 Old 11-04-2006, 01:38 AM
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Just a quick thought....

I am not sure exactly how much impact it has on calibration. but room lighting is referenced on the Digital Video Essentials DVD (just recvd it today). So I think it could be useful info to include the lighting under which each calibration was completed.

I did a quick run through of only the video section of DVE tonight. The methods seem appropriate -with good background info- though the user interface is lacking.

I will not post my findings yet.... I need to go through the process a few times. but tomorrow I connect up the new denon AVR, connections, loudspeakers, etc. so very likely my calibration #s won't show up for a while, I have a new sound system to test out!!!
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post #10 of 520 Old 11-06-2006, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

Below are CNET's settings and my settings in parentheses:

Mode: custom
Backlight: 3 (4)
Picture: 93 (98)
Brightness: 56 (56)
Color: 50 (46)
Hue: 0 (0)
Color Temp: warm2 (neutral)
Sharpness: 33 (minimum)
Noise reduction: off (off)

Advanced settings

Black corrector: off (off)
Advanced C.E.: off (off)
Gamma: low (low)
Clear white: off (off)
Live color: off (off)
Color space: normal (normal)

Display area: full pixel (full pixel)

Power saving: low (low)
Light sensor: off (on)

My results were much the same, with one significant difference -- using calibration screens on the Avia DVD in a dark room (run to the 46V2500 via HDMI into input 7), I found setting the Brightness much lower yielded better results, as you'll see below:

Mode: custom
Backlight: 3
Picture: 98
Brightness: 22
Color: 52
Hue: 0
Color Temp: neutral
Sharpness: minimum
Noise reduction: off

Advanced settings

Black corrector: off
Advanced C.E.: off
Gamma: low
Clear white: off (off)
Live color: off
Color space: normal

Display area: full pixel

Power saving: low
Light sensor: off

I watched Raiders Of The Lost Ark (on DVD) with these settings and was impressed with the pq and detail (including in the blacks).

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post #11 of 520 Old 11-06-2006, 01:35 PM
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[quote=Engine Joe]

Display area: full pixel

I'm having a problem with full pixel setting on my 40v2500. When i use this setting on digital cable, hooked up via component cables, i end up with 3 lines, a green red and yellow, running from top to bottom of the screen, on the left side, and a couple line widths of black framing he other sides of he picture. Any clues what this might be about? Maybe I should try an HDMI cable. Is this potentially the problem.

Separately, can you notice the difference between full pixel and normal settings in terms of image quality?

ted
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post #12 of 520 Old 11-06-2006, 05:24 PM
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ted -

It could be that the source is not really fully-wide. It should be, but you never can tell.

If I toggle between "normal" and "full pixel" I can see about an inch more on each side when on full pixel than on normal. If the source ends, the TV fills in something. My cable box puts grey bars in for 4:3 content. If the 4:3 content is 720x480, it fills in everything up to the grey bars. If it is 640x480, I get some black bars or other weirdness in between the grey bars and the content.

Perhaps you are seeing the same thing, just with widescreen content? Admittedly, I've never heard of such a thing before, but it kind of fits your symptoms...

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post #13 of 520 Old 11-07-2006, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine Joe View Post

ted -

It could be that the source is not really fully-wide. It should be, but you never can tell.

If I toggle between "normal" and "full pixel" I can see about an inch more on each side when on full pixel than on normal. If the source ends, the TV fills in something. My cable box puts grey bars in for 4:3 content. If the 4:3 content is 720x480, it fills in everything up to the grey bars. If it is 640x480, I get some black bars or other weirdness in between the grey bars and the content.

Perhaps you are seeing the same thing, just with widescreen content? Admittedly, I've never heard of such a thing before, but it kind of fits your symptoms...

How can i test this? My situation crops up when picture mode is set to full. If I'm set to full pixel, I get a small, but very bright and noticeable blue-green line that runs the length of the left side of the screen. I'd be fine with black bars. this looks awful.
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post #14 of 520 Old 11-07-2006, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxted View Post

How can i test this? My situation crops up when picture mode is set to full. If I'm set to full pixel, I get a small, but very bright and noticeable blue-green line that runs the length of the left side of the screen. I'd be fine with black bars. this looks awful.

Does it happen with every channel? I find that I get it on some channels, too, but not all of them (or not even most). In theory the way to fix it would probably be to shift the image over horizontally to the left by a few pixels, which should be possible to do via the service menu. But I have no idea how to do that, and I hesitate to recommend it to others who don't know what they're doing. I don't know of another way of fixing it other than turning off full pixel mode when watching offending programming. Since it only happens to me on a couple of channels, I just switch to "normal" for that stuff.

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post #15 of 520 Old 11-08-2006, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine Joe View Post

Does it happen with every channel? I find that I get it on some channels, too, but not all of them (or not even most). In theory the way to fix it would probably be to shift the image over horizontally to the left by a few pixels, which should be possible to do via the service menu. But I have no idea how to do that, and I hesitate to recommend it to others who don't know what they're doing. I don't know of another way of fixing it other than turning off full pixel mode when watching offending programming. Since it only happens to me on a couple of channels, I just switch to "normal" for that stuff.

I have this problem on some channels, like NBC HD, but you can correct it without going to the service menu. One of the settings adustments has a "Horizontal" positioning. If you adjust that, it should take care of the problem.
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post #16 of 520 Old 11-08-2006, 07:26 PM
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I got the Costco version, the KDL-46V25L1 and the Display Area on this set gives you either Normal, -1 or -2 but no full pixel. Can it be that this setup does not have this feature or is -1 or -2 mean full pixel??

Jeremy

I am glad no one respoded to this because it was clearly stated in the manual that you cannot get full pixel mode unless it is a source of 1080.
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post #17 of 520 Old 11-09-2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyW View Post

I got the Costco version, the KDL-46V25L1 and the Display Area on this set gives you either Normal, -1 or -2 but no full pixel. Can it be that this setup does not have this feature or is -1 or -2 mean full pixel??

Well, I'll respond anyhow just to have a record of it on the internet.

I too have the 46V25L1, and it does have a "Full Pixel" setting. It appears above the "Normal" setting, which appears to be the default. At least that option was available with a 1080p source (computer) connected to one of the HDMI inputs.
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post #18 of 520 Old 11-09-2006, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine Joe View Post

My results were much the same, with one significant difference -- using calibration screens on the Avia DVD in a dark room (run to the 46V2500 via HDMI into input 7), I found setting the Brightness much lower yielded better results, as you'll see below:

Interesting that we came that close w/ you using Avia and me using GetGray... and close to cnet's settings. For others, note that this is for dvd's. I used a component input, Joe and cnet used hdmi for a dvd and hd-dvd respectively. It seems it's the type of source that's important for settings.

Re: your lower brightness... w/ your gamma set to low that'd compensate for the lower brightness... I'll give that a try. I'm not sure about gamma... when I pushed it too much it created a kind of solarized pq. After having this set for a while I'm trying for as natural a pq as possible. But low might be good.

Re: the lines seen w/ broadcasts. I see that every once in a while on my laptop and crt (w/ external tuners)... so just a source thing. I just keep my set on full pixel since it doesn't really bother me much. The good thing is this shows the v2500's aren't overscanning but the full pixel is working as it should: showing the exact source.
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post #19 of 520 Old 11-09-2006, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Custom and Standard settings for OTA. These aren't calibrated (since there's no patterns to use), but seem good.

Mode: custom [ standard ]
Backlight: 6 [ 8 ]
Picture: 80 [80 ]
Brightness: 50 [50 ]
Color: 40 [40 ]
Hue: 0
Color Temp: warm2 [ neutral ]
Sharpness: minimum
Noise reduction: off

Advanced settings

Black corrector: off
Advanced C.E.: off
Gamma: low
Clear white: off
Live color: off
Color space: wide

Display area: full pixel

Power saving: low
Light sensor: on

For Standard, I just turned noise off and sharpness to min, temp to neutral and color down to the low 40's. For custom, the same as standard but temp to warm2 and color space to wide (for broadcast; normal for dvd's). So, the default is fairly close. cnet said warm2 was the closest to some standard, so I use that when it's available in custom. As for turning color down... I noticed some pink sweater on some show that almost glowed at 50 and turned it down to get rid of that. Somewhere in the lower 40's seems to make colors more natural yet still have plenty of saturation.

Not sure about gamma... either low or off seems good.
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post #20 of 520 Old 11-10-2006, 11:57 AM
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rconn,

Are you using these settings in a darkened room? I tried the different settings that you have posted in a lighted room (not super bright) and the picture seemed too dark for me. I had to turn up the backlight to make it better. Or maybe it's just me.

Todd
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post #21 of 520 Old 11-10-2006, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenH1979 View Post

I have this problem on some channels, like NBC HD, but you can correct it without going to the service menu. One of the settings adustments has a "Horizontal" positioning. If you adjust that, it should take care of the problem.


I'll look for the horizontal adjustment. I haven't seen it, but that sounds like what it needs.
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post #22 of 520 Old 11-10-2006, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJStaar View Post

rconn,

Are you using these settings in a darkened room? I tried the different settings that you have posted in a lighted room (not super bright) and the picture seemed too dark for me. I had to turn up the backlight to make it better. Or maybe it's just me.

Todd

Todd: In a medium to low light room. The backlight setting doesn't have a strong effect on gray scale calibration settings (brightness, picture etc.) so it's mostly subjective preference. When I turn light sensor off, there's a big jump in overall brightness... I just figured I'd use it. I think most xbr2 calibrations have it turned off, as does cnet.
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post #23 of 520 Old 11-13-2006, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenH1979 View Post

I have this problem on some channels, like NBC HD, but you can correct it without going to the service menu. One of the settings adustments has a "Horizontal" positioning. If you adjust that, it should take care of the problem.

Ben,

Thanks for the suggestion. It fixed the problem.

ted
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post #24 of 520 Old 11-17-2006, 05:32 AM
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Any experts here who have some good advice for calibrating the v2500 for the Xbox 360 using component cables?
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post #25 of 520 Old 11-20-2006, 05:33 AM
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I've noticed that there has been no replies at all for some time. Anybody?

Also any ideas for settings with 480i/p? I will submit my own settings for everyone to try out. I don't have any equipment so I will be calibrating by eye. :P
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post #26 of 520 Old 11-20-2006, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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This thread doesn't get so many posts as we v2500 owners are a minority while the crowd flocks to the bells and whistles and floating glass I'd appreciate your settings.
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post #27 of 520 Old 11-20-2006, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post

This thread doesn't get so many posts as we v2500 owners are a minority while the crowd flocks to the bells and whistles and floating glass I'd appreciate your settings.

But the v2500 does have bells and whistles. *cries*
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post #28 of 520 Old 11-20-2006, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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it sure does... clear and crisp ones in fact Now how about those settings?

btw, one of these days we're going to get 1080p over vga... it can be done through the xbox 360, so it's just a matter of time. why? because it's there.
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post #29 of 520 Old 11-21-2006, 08:31 PM
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i jus picked one of these bad boys up on sunday. thx for the info guys.
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post #30 of 520 Old 11-22-2006, 06:13 AM
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Okay here are my recommendations for the Nintendo Wii if you are stuck using crappy composite cables with the 2500 HDTV.

Backlight 3
Picture 72
Brightness 56
Color 62
Hue 0
Warm 1
Sharpness 20 (This is especially important. Since the composite cables automatically make the image look really blurry, it is best to turn this up extremely high. Not too high or else it starts to look really crappy.
Noise Reduction Off
For advanced settings, everything is off except Color Space is set to Wide. I thought this brought out more shades of color on scenery. For example you see more color variations on Link's neck with Color Space set to Wide, which makes him look a bit more realistic.

Sorry I know I was supposed to submit 360 settings, but since I've already done this and I know lots of people will have Wii's and stuck with crappy composite cables, I needed to help peeps out.
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