Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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post #361 of 9118 Old 11-25-2006, 09:24 PM
 
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Yeah, the guys at BB are idiots. I agree. If I've dropped that much coin on a tv AND purchased one of your pure profit service plans, shut up and let me exchange my tv until I am happy. When I make the case for returning mine once the XBR3's are hopefully doing better, I won't be taking any crap from anyone. The way some of these people act is unacceptable.
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post #362 of 9118 Old 11-25-2006, 10:20 PM
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Hey I'm new to the forum and have been reading this whole discussion. Cos' I plan on getting a 40XBR3, with a slight chance of a 46XBR3. I don't think I'll be getting either a 46' or an XBR2 since so far I've noticed a majority of the mura effects came from the 46XBR2's, but with one or two 40's or XBR3's. Does this prove the 40's/XBR3's are more likely to be fine?

Also some said it was the actual panel that's dysfunctional. Does this mean that the "clouds" will appear regardless of connection or format. For example will it show in an HDMI connection? 1080p? 720p? I don't plan on watching any standard-def or HD programming. Basically I'm only using this set with an HDMI connection and PS3 for it's games, Blu-Ray movies and some DVD's. And mostly in 1080p/720p.

Will getting a 40XBR3 and using the highest connections/formats/players make me safe from the "cloud effect". And another thing, if I'm unfortunate enough to get the "cloud effect" Will exchanging the set be my only option? It seems some people are blaming the production date or the handling, any pointers on what I should do in a worst case scenario? Or even things to look for prior to purchase.
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post #363 of 9118 Old 11-25-2006, 10:59 PM
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It is a panel issue. It happens with all inputs. I don't think you can draw a conclusion on frequency of problem with XBR3s based on postings here because the sampling of XBR3s seems to be small. Most people on AVS appear to be gettings XBR2s so most of the comments will be for XBR2s. They are supposed to be the same panel in both XBR2s and XBR3s.
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post #364 of 9118 Old 11-25-2006, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dietcokefiend View Post

Well I returned it and got the model just below it that is the 720P version.

Yeah, very few complaints of cloudiness with the 720p displays. Previous XBR1 models used 720p panels and people were happy with them. If people can be happy with XBR1 720p performance but aren't happy with 108p xbr2 panel performance, I think the problem is with the panel and not the people being too picky.
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post #365 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 03:37 AM
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I noticed some prior queries as to whether this problem affects the 40" X models also - I can confirm that in my case it certainly did. Please refer to the pictures below which clearly show the problem in both no light and with background lighting. I have also included a few pictures from Pirates of The Carribbean. These clearly show that this issue is certainly not nitpicking, as some people have suggested. It shows up in most anything being watched whenever there is any slightly dark scene (ie: it's not just in the opening scene of star wars )

img141.imageshack.us/img141/4928/img3775mg2.jpg
img177.imageshack.us/img177/2931/img3807cn1.jpg
img156.imageshack.us/img156/4962/img3795tc4.jpg
img156.imageshack.us/img156/2956/img3798lo4.jpg
img171.imageshack.us/img171/8370/img3784uo6.jpg
img176.imageshack.us/img176/1109/img3805ze0.jpg

NOTE: I have removed the 'h.ttp://' part from the above links (due to the 5 post restriction) - so they will need to be added. If someone could post with the full links, or alternatively inform me of a better way to post it would be appreciated.
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post #366 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 04:07 AM
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I brought home my XBR2 yesterday, turned it on during daylight, no problems. So I thought. I spent the afternoon installing the wall mount. 'Was very proud of my workmanship and couldn't wait until after dinner to mount the TV to the wall and watch a movie. By now it's dark of course. My wife and I lift the set onto the wall, turn it on and right out of the starting gate I see the "clouds" issue. My wife thought I was crazy, and so did I until after reading this thread.

I scanned over page upon page of complaints hoping I would find the silver bullet to my problem. I came away with no answers other than trying to find a set built before July. Now that it's post "black friday" that's probably not going to happen, nevermind my local CC or BB letting me open what stock they have left so I can see the build dates. I'm sure they would have a strait jacket and padded wagon waiting for me outside.

I thought maybe I would buy a different Sony model LCD, say a 2500. Of course I read one guy's monitor is mint, another's defective. Another dead end. I even considered biting my lip and buying a Samsung. Nope, not going to happen either

So I'm giving up. I will probably return my XBR2 today and purchase a Pinoeer Elite Plasma display. Not a fan of plasma, already had one die last year on me, but at least I know the only cloudy night I will see is the one outside my living room window.

Thanks for letting me vent.

- Dave

BAD: My KDL-V32XBR1 black's look perfect. Go figure.
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post #367 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightnext1 View Post

I noticed some prior queries as to whether this problem affects the 40" X models also - I can confirm that in my case it certainly did. Please refer to the pictures below which clearly show the problem in both no light and with background lighting. I have also included a few pictures from Pirates of The Carribbean. These clearly show that this issue is certainly not nitpicking, as some people have suggested.
NOTE: I have removed the 'h.ttp://' part from the above links (due to the 5 post restriction) - so they will need to be added. If someone could post with the full links, or alternatively inform me of a better way to post it would be appreciated.

Here you go...
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4928/img3775mg2.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2931/img3807cn1.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4962/img3795tc4.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2956/img3798lo4.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8370/img3784uo6.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1109/img3805ze0.jpg

BTW, those are excellent pictures (especially the last one) which clearly illustrate how the clouding issue can be very intrusive and distracting with DVD/TV viewing and is not just a problem when displaying a blank input screen. Good job!

To the other (potential) posters...
I stated this in a previous post but it is worth repeating...
If you are going to post pics of your "cloudy" sets, PLEASE do so of not only a blank screen, but also of a screen displaying a DVD/TV scene with dark or black backgrounds. This will better illustrate the problem under "normal" use. Otherwise, some people (e.g. newbies) will be mislead into thinking that the presence of clouds when displaying a blank input should be the only condition to judge cloudiness and whether or not their sets are defective. It is normal for LCDs to exhibit a slight degree of cloudiness or uneven backlighting when displaying a blank screen. Of course, if the cloudiness is not visible or distracting under DVD/TV viewing, then the set is fine.
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post #368 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 06:24 AM
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Been reading this thread for several months, in a moment of weakness I bet against the odds.
Saw the great price on 46XBR2 over BF, got one (CC delivered the next morning). Searched for clouds in a well lit room, and then stuck pixels - didnt find any. We enjoyed a day of watching stunning pictures. As the evening approached, could clearly make it big splotch on the upper left corner, lower mid and wisps radiating from there to the right.
Except for the total dark scenes or switching inputs at night, this is not noticeable. Took some pictures incase.
This set was made in Nov.
I am going to try to exchange with CC for another panel and try. Couple of questions.

1. Is there any remedy for this such as reducing backlighting - how does this affect the picture - brightness ?
2. Do the costco 46V25L's have similar issues?
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post #369 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 08:12 AM
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Here's a good question.

For the people who seem NOT to have the problem. How do you think this is possible? Maybe it's how they handled it when they brought it home? I heard someone mention you had to handle it a speacil way to prevent backlit bull crap. Gosh, I just hope I'm fortunate enough to get a good panel, those cloud effects really seem bad in movies/games. Someone give me some good news!

oOoOo.
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post #370 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowFox View Post

Here's a good question.

For the people who seem NOT to have the problem. How do you think this is possible? Maybe it's how they handled it when they brought it home? I heard someone mention you had to handle it a speacil way to prevent backlit bull crap. Gosh, I just hope I'm fortunate enough to get a good panel, those cloud effects really seem bad in movies/games. Someone give me some good news!

oOoOo.

That was only speculation about handling it a special way, since no one knows who or what is responsible for this issue exactly. It does seem like a pressure problem. The "clouds" are what happens when you touch an LCD screen. Only, no one is touching these screens to see the clouds?
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post #371 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jktrading View Post

That was only speculation about handling it a special way, since no one knows who or what is responsible for this issue exactly. It does seem like a pressure problem. The "clouds" are what happens when you touch an LCD screen. Only, no one is touching these screens to see the clouds?

True. I hypothesize that localized/uneven pressure points along the outer surface of the LCD panel acts to displace some of the liquid crystal matrix underneath which cause the clouding. As you said, pressing your fingertips against any LCD screen causes the screen to turn white where ever you touch it. The same thing could be happening to a lesser degree if there is any uneveness on the panel surface (due to manufacturing defects, etc). Laying the TV flat or rubbing the screen may have an effect on the cloudiness by spreading out or redistributing this unevenness (stress points).

All just speculation, of course.
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post #372 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 11:10 AM
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Just curious is any of these problems have been observed on sets with November build dates?

I have had both September and October panels in my home, both of which displayed these issues (October worse than September) and both of which were returned while I "waited out" a fix. I loved the panel outside of this very distracting issue... Now that prices have dropped significantly, I am considering purchasing again. I would most certainly receive a November panel (high turnover fromthe local CC warehouse)... wondering if the newest panels fair any better....

Thanks.
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post #373 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 11:21 AM
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A forum member posted a link to pdfs detailing mura defects. I think it's what we're seeing with these panels. The pdfs are here:

http://www.orbitech.com.tw/doc/app-7.pdf

and here:

http://www.magictouch.com/Mura.pdf

Check it out. What do you think?
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post #374 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 11:23 AM
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That got my attention when I unpacked but what can you do at that point, therev was no noticable outside damage. I know it didn't come from my transportation!
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post #375 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 01:08 PM
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I would like to add one more to the "Cloudy" side of the argument.

I noticed it on Day One of purchase when I was watching the Cinemax HD marathon of the entire Star Wars series. I would notice it on any space combat scene.

If it's not a night scene or a black screen, the picture's beautiful. But when watching, say, Adult Swim when they always cut to the black screen with white text bumpers I would see it plain as day.







I'm going to try and de-stress it by laying it flat on its face for a couple of hours and see what happens. I'm still within the 30 days at Video Only and I really think this is a "defect" and not a "usual effect of LCD panels". But from the sounds of the folk on these boards, if I swap it out for another, I think I'm going to get the same problem...and risk getting a worse panel with dead pixels (this one's clean otherwise).
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post #376 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzir View Post

A forum member posted a link to pdfs detailing mura defects. I think it's what we're seeing with these panels. The pdfs are here:

http://www.orbitech.com.tw/doc/app-7.pdf

and here:

http://www.magictouch.com/Mura.pdf

Check it out. What do you think?

Hmmm....the folks that have contacted Sony should definately forward them these links. I have yet to contact Sony regarding my panel, but when I do, I will definately forward them these links.
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post #377 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kontai69 View Post

Here you go...


BTW, those are excellent pictures (especially the last one) which clearly illustrate how the clouding issue can be very intrusive and distracting with DVD/TV viewing and is not just a problem when displaying a blank input screen. Good job!

To the other (potential) posters...
I stated this in a previous post but it is worth repeating...
If you are going to post pics of your "cloudy" sets, PLEASE do so of not only a blank screen, but also of a screen displaying a DVD/TV scene with dark or black backgrounds. This will better illustrate the problem under "normal" use. Otherwise, some people (e.g. newbies) will be mislead into thinking that the presence of clouds when displaying a blank input should be the only condition to judge cloudiness and whether or not their sets are defective. It is normal for LCDs to exhibit a slight degree of cloudiness or uneven backlighting when displaying a blank screen. Of course, if the cloudiness is not visible or distracting under DVD/TV viewing, then the set is fine.

The clouding is bad, but that bright red dead pixel in your first picture would drive me even more crazy.

Also would like to add the following to the mix:

Last night there were a few "stress" points on my new 720P screen, where it was very mildly white near one of the top corners where i was gripping the LCD installing it into my room. There was even a specific stress point near what looked like a support/screw point. I was afraid those were going to stay there, but just sitting overnight made them all go away. Now the specific point near the top is gone, and the light white near the top right corner has faded all the way back to the "black" background color. I am starting to warm up to this TV a bit more. I just wish it had better contrast that could be seen on the 1080P panel. It is also lacking on a few adjustments that the other screen had.

I figure there will always be drawbacks depending on what TV you buy, but like many can see... some can be worse than others
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post #378 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crankypants View Post

I would like to add one more to the "Cloudy" side of the argument.

I noticed it on Day One of purchase when I was watching the Cinemax HD marathon of the entire Star Wars series. I would notice it on any space combat scene.

If it's not a night scene or a black screen, the picture's beautiful. But when watching, say, Adult Swim when they always cut to the black screen with white text bumpers I would see it plain as day.







I'm going to try and de-stress it by laying it flat on its face for a couple of hours and see what happens. I'm still within the 30 days at Video Only and I really think this is a "defect" and not a "usual effect of LCD panels". But from the sounds of the folk on these boards, if I swap it out for another, I think I'm going to get the same problem...and risk getting a worse panel with dead pixels (this one's clean otherwise).

dang thats ****ed up

I don't understand how Sony missed this

horrible

Blu-Ray Supporter
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post #379 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amel View Post

dang thats ****ed up

I don't understand how Sony missed this

horrible

If they test 1-2 out of 100 or 1000 TV's made, whos to say that it wasn't a problem on the TV they picked? Until someone buys like 3-4 of them all in successive serial numbering, we dont really know if this problem is on everything, or just a few oddballs. It might be more of an after-making problem with transit issues or something like that.
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post #380 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 03:39 PM
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No Clouds

July Build Date

CROPPED < OAR < OPEN MATTE -- OOOOH I SAID IT!
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post #381 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 04:36 PM
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I'm really really conflicted about this. I posted earlier about my 40" XBR2 showing the clouds that many 46" owners have experienced.. My build date is October 2006, and I feel like many that there is a manufacturing window here where all of these sets are "bad" in this respect.

I'm in day 5 of my 30 day window with Circuit City, and I don't know what the heck to do. If I send this one back and they deliver another one, there's almost a guaranteed chance of the new set having the exact same problem. If I decide to keep it, I'm going to buy the Sony 5-year service plan (from Sony). Will I be up ****'s creek with them when the flaw is fixed and I ask them for a replacement?

I really love this set, but this is ruining it for me. It seems many of us are in the same situation.
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post #382 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike71 View Post

I'm really really conflicted about this. I posted earlier about my 40" XBR2 showing the clouds that many 46" owners have experienced.. My build date is October 2006, and I feel like many that there is a manufacturing window here where all of these sets are "bad" in this respect.

I'm in day 5 of my 30 day window with Circuit City, and I don't know what the heck to do. If I send this one back and they deliver another one, there's almost a guaranteed chance of the new set having the exact same problem. If I decide to keep it, I'm going to buy the Sony 5-year service plan (from Sony). Will I be up ****'s creek with them when the flaw is fixed and I ask them for a replacement?

I really love this set, but this is ruining it for me. It seems many of us are in the same situation.

After the 30 days, won't SONY replace the set if there is a defect under their 1 year warranty? If so, keep the set, open up a trouble ticket with SONY at 6 months and get a new panel when production problems are solved.
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post #383 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 05:05 PM
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Thanks, Seattlite. That's probably exactly what I'm going to do. Since this is seems to be much more prevalent with 46" panels, I'm going to try my luck and get CC to exchange it one more time. If the new one suffers from the same, then it's waiting time.
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post #384 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 07:01 PM
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Ugh, I really really hate the lack of contrast on this lesser screen. At least with the clud issue aside, I could tell the difference between shadows and dark shirts. Now everything just kidna blends together without detail unless its brighter colors.

Anyone have suggestions on a LCD to take a look at? I notice the Sharp 42" 1080P model is at BB, but noticed the issues with banding mentioned. Is there any top pick of LCD's I should look for? All I want in a TV is the following:

Uniform blacks
black blacks (I hate muddy grey wasted out dark colors)
nice contrast
HDMI/VGA to plug my computer into it

It doesn't matter if the model has 10 HDMIT ports or 1 HDMI port, I just want the key part of the set (the panel) to work well and be of nice quality.
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post #385 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 07:19 PM
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Yes, mine was built in Nov.

Went to CC today to see if I can get another set. Looks like CC (SF Bay area) is out of 46XBR2s! - I was asked if I wanted to special order it. I declined.

Fry's, BB and Sony online all have the same price, I am going to try BB.

Of all images that have been posed there is always the LHS corner that common to all. This cannot be a random defect, may be something in the handling of the panel during manufacturing or something?.
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post #386 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 07:23 PM
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I was wondering how long you guys have had your sets? I have read that clouding improves significantly over time. I have an LCD that initially had some clouding in a corner with dark backgrounds, but now after a year of use I can not see it any more.
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post #387 of 9118 Old 11-26-2006, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbila View Post

I was wondering how long you guys have had your sets? I have read that clouding improves significantly over time. I have an LCD that initially had some clouding in a corner with dark backgrounds, but now after a year of use I can not see it any more.

I think keeping it for the long haul might be a bit risky. If you wait too long you lose the chance to return it in store.
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post #388 of 9118 Old 11-27-2006, 12:09 AM
 
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A spot of good news. Trying earlier suggestions, this evening we laid the XBR3 face down on the dining room table for about 15 minutes. Once we got it back up and running again, some of the fainter clouded areas had cleared up and the major one in the upper left hand corner seems to be getting better.

This seems to reinforce the idea that the uneven blacklighting could be caused by simple poor placement of the panel in the shell of the XBR, yes? What I am curious about is what is going on in that upper left hand corner that makes it the common theme with all these defective sets? Would that be an anchor point for the entire display inside the Bravia frame?

I mean, my XBR3 looks almost identical cloud-wise to Crankypants' set, though not quite as bad as his XBR2. But the upper left hand corner is nearly identical with the amount of clouding and its placement. I find this to be very curious and perhaps one step closer to determining what exactly the problem is. Any engineers in the house?
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post #389 of 9118 Old 11-27-2006, 06:32 AM
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Yeah I'm starting to wonder who turned the torque up on the outer-casing assembly screwdriver robot at the manufacturing plant in, what, October?
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post #390 of 9118 Old 11-27-2006, 07:43 AM
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I carried my xbr2 home face down in the car.. I have a Sept build date... Clear as a bell... No problems with clouds or any other thing... I love my xbr2.... Am I alone with that?????
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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Sony Bravia S Series Kdl 40s2010 40 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia W Series Kdl 46w5100 46 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia Xbr Kdl 52xbr4 52 Inch 1080p Lcd Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv
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