Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,294 69.05%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.95%
Voters: 1874. You may not vote on this poll

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post #451 of 9118 Old 11-28-2006, 06:14 PM
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mine shows like slight clouds on screen when the screen is black. Are these the clouds you are talking about? Should I think about returning the TV? It does not reflect on the quality of colors or anything.
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post #452 of 9118 Old 11-28-2006, 07:19 PM
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Bad 46xbr3 Oct'06.... have not returned yet...

I am in love with the set and I do not think I am going to be able to get an august 06 model anymore, cant downgrade to the samsungs cuase its a samsung lcd panel and I rather have the extra sony menu features. I prefer LCD over rear projection technologies so thats not an option either. The sad fact is I bought this tv during a bad time window. I should probably get smart and return it when the defect is worked its way out of the pipeline.

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post #453 of 9118 Old 11-28-2006, 07:45 PM
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BAD 40v2500 got it on black friday for under 2k great price but crappy clouds. My dad got so no name akia 32 in tv and he has NO clouds my 26in Olevia looks better then this crap. im returning asap when they fix this issue.
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post #454 of 9118 Old 11-28-2006, 11:03 PM
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Doesn't everyone agree that if it's made in November or beyond it's fine? I think one or two got defects in November but it seems like the wisest thing to do, right? Would that be even possible? To ask the employee "Hey look I want this model with a production date of so and so." Also how many agree that this problem will dissipate within the next 2-4 months?
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post #455 of 9118 Old 11-28-2006, 11:23 PM
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I also have October production date
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post #456 of 9118 Old 11-28-2006, 11:32 PM
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Well clouding seems to be a real issue of the Sony XBR's. I had been thinking about the Sharp LCD's, but they seem to have an issue with "banding". Which do you think is worse, banding or clouding? Any issues with the Samsung 1080p LCDs?
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post #457 of 9118 Old 11-28-2006, 11:50 PM
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Possible Discovery: Please read if you have clouding!
Last night I think I discovered why these screens are doing this. When Comcast came to install my dvr they put finger prints all over my LCD screen moving it around. I cleaned off the surface with some LCD safe wipes and I noticed that where I wiped down the screen (and I wiped very lightly as you could imagine) the clouding issue became worse in that area specifically. I was lead to believe that surface pressure may have something to do with this. I took the back of my hand and pressed gently against the clouded area to test this theory out and sure enough the clouding altered right around where I press and it became greater in that area. What I think is happening... is the protective surface layer however it is mounted around the screen is mounted unevenly causing the surface to warp slightly. This would bow the surface layer randomly into the LCD causing white spots that we all see as clouds. Most of the screen shots I have noticed the top left corner seems to be the most common area of this problem, it is possible the surface layer is warped there for so many people because that's where the mounting issue lies.

My concern about this is... I do not know the long term effects of pressure against an lcd screen this very well may cause permanent damage over time (and it may not) LOL.. if this TV didn't cost almost 4 grand I would use a small suction cup on the clouded areas and gently pull the surface layer from the lcd screen to test if it cures the clouding (that of course is not a solution) if this is the problem the surface layer needs to be remounted around the TV frame.

Needless to say after wiping down those fingerprints I made this clouding issue way worse then it was at day one of purchase I may very well have to exchange it.

If anyone has any experiences that validate my thoughts above please chime in.

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post #458 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpkuma View Post

Well clouding seems to be a real issue of the Sony XBR's. I had been thinking about the Sharp LCD's, but they seem to have an issue with "banding". Which do you think is worse, banding or clouding? Any issues with the Samsung 1080p LCDs?

I have read elsewhere on the AVS forums that the Samsung LCD's are the same LCD's used in the Sony xbr2/3 models... Sony purchases the screen from Samsung... so the current Samsung series of LCD's produced in same time frame are doing the same thing for those owners also.

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post #459 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 12:09 AM
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Went back to my local Best Buy that I bought my 40"xbr2. Showed them a picture of my screen's cloudiness. The 40" xbr2, xbr3 and 46" xbr2 on display had no clouding issues. There was however a KDL40V2500 that had the clouding issue. I pointed it out to the manager and he said that this is "light leakage" and that it is inherant in Sony LCD sets. He then told me that I should look at at the Sharp Aquos because it is a "Better TV". I have seen both sets side by side and I like the Sony's picture and styling better. Not to mention the Sharp has only 2 HDMI inputs and NO PC input. I could use 1 HDMI and connect a computer through the DVI > HDMI. That leaves only one HDMI input for Directv, Blueray and the future xbox 360 HDMI cable. NO THANKS! I just want what I payed for... a working xbr2!
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post #460 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 01:34 AM
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I have a cloudy 46XBR3. The cloudy light is most visible in the upper left corner. I did test this with a dark signal - it is very visible during the opening credits of Blade Runner. In my initial excitement after purchasing this HDTV, I didn't think it was a big deal but it is quite noticeable during dark movie scenes.

This set was manufactured in OCT 2006. I have a difficult decision to make on whether to replace this in the hope that I get a non-cloudy set.

It is a bummer because the picture itself is really amazing and I'm happy with the response time while playing games.

I haven't tried the "petmic" calibration settings yet.
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post #461 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 02:01 AM
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So who else in this thread has joined the "Using my early 90's Mitsubishi TV that is faded to hell and connected to my HDTV cable box through coax" club with no idea what to buy now? I like the v2500, but not with clouding. The 2010 would be nice if it had stronger blacks, but it doesn't. The Sharp panels have no clouding or screen defects, but have bad electronics causing screen banding.

Is this some sort of evil joke? Make every topend LCD TV model have some flaw that makes watching movies crap?

I have ~2500 to spend, and no idea where to go anymore. I want to make a purchase that will last a while and keep me happy, and having banding or clouding ruining a movie isn't a compromise I want to make. These problems are probably not going to be fixed in the current models either, so I will have to wait for the next run of redesigned TV's, in the hopes of maybe their flaw isn't as bad as this.
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post #462 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 02:46 AM
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My panel had faint cloudiness, visible only in the dark when nothing was playing / no input. But after a month, I really can't see any sign of it. It would be interesting to hear from anyone else who kept their set, to see if there's anyone else with similar experience.

I did not have the light in the corners, or any other problem - just a little cloudiness, less severe than some.
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post #463 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 03:39 AM
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Well, I found a Best Buy that had a couple of XBR2's in stock yesterday and so I decided to pay alittle more than I would online so I could have the option of returning the TV instead of being stuck with it (as in the case of an online order).

I was careful to keep the box upright for the entire trip home (45 miles) in the back on my 2005 Suburban... it JUST fits.

Got it home, and went through it with a fine tooth comb. It is a September 06 Build.

During the whole process, I was careful to not touch the screen at anytime.

I could see some very faint clouding in the upper left hand corner, but in comparison to other I have seen in this forum (THANK YOU for the Pictures guys!) I think I am one of the lucky ones. I'llreport it sa acceptable and hence a NOT cloudy display. I used my 8M pixel Sony camera to take some pictures while on a tripod (long shutter times, etc.) and tried to get as faithful a representation of the screen I could. However, it will look a little lighter in person... some aspect of the light the camera cannot represent as well. Be sure to view this on a good CRT if possible.

It would appear that the screen brightness (currently set on 2) doesn't seem to increase the cloudiness such that I could tell.

I also noticed last night that pressing against the screen seemed to increase the cloudiness so I am NOT going to put this on it's stand were my 3yr old can touch it and admire all of the pretty colors it makes when you do, but will mount it instead on the wall for sure... and then place a table in front of it to slow him down. The pictures were taken after I touched it.

I hope it helps.
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post #464 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vertebra View Post

Went back to my local Best Buy that I bought my 40"xbr2. Showed them a picture of my screen's cloudiness. The 40" xbr2, xbr3 and 46" xbr2 on display had no clouding issues. There was however a KDL40V2500 that had the clouding issue. I pointed it out to the manager and he said that this is "light leakage" and that it is inherant in Sony LCD sets. He then told me that I should look at at the Sharp Aquos because it is a "Better TV". I have seen both sets side by side and I like the Sony's picture and styling better. Not to mention the Sharp has only 2 HDMI inputs and NO PC input. I could use 1 HDMI and connect a computer through the DVI > HDMI. That leaves only one HDMI input for Directv, Blueray and the future xbox 360 HDMI cable. NO THANKS! I just want what I payed for... a working xbr2!

I know exactly what you mean, I spent a grand extra money for the Sony for a reason I prefer this model LCD over the others. But, its not just 1080p lcd's that seem to be playing and evil joke on us. I got a good friend who recently entered into the HDTV arena too and went the 1080p rear projection route. He has been through several models cause they are just as plagued and riddled with issues as the LCD's are. For those guys its pin cushion 4:3 effects, green blobs, etc.

I am tempted to just take the good with the bad and call it a day. Atleast I do not see this clouding while colors are on the screen.

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post #465 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woots View Post

Possible Discovery: Please read if you have clouding!
Last night I think I discovered why these screens are doing this. When Comcast came to install my dvr they put finger prints all over my LCD screen moving it around. I cleaned off the surface with some LCD safe wipes and I noticed that where I wiped down the screen (and I wiped very lightly as you could imagine) the clouding issue became worse in that area specifically. I was lead to believe that surface pressure may have something to do with this. I took the back of my hand and pressed gently against the clouded area to test this theory out and sure enough the clouding altered right around where I press and it became greater in that area. What I think is happening... is the protective surface layer however it is mounted around the screen is mounted unevenly causing the surface to warp slightly. This would bow the surface layer randomly into the LCD causing white spots that we all see as clouds. Most of the screen shots I have noticed the top left corner seems to be the most common area of this problem, it is possible the surface layer is warped there for so many people because that's where the mounting issue lies.

My concern about this is... I do not know the long term effects of pressure against an lcd screen this very well may cause permanent damage over time (and it may not) LOL.. if this TV didn't cost almost 4 grand I would use a small suction cup on the clouded areas and gently pull the surface layer from the lcd screen to test if it cures the clouding (that of course is not a solution) if this is the problem the surface layer needs to be remounted around the TV frame.

Needless to say after wiping down those fingerprints I made this clouding issue way worse then it was at day one of purchase I may very well have to exchange it.

If anyone has any experiences that validate my thoughts above please chime in.

I tried gently wiping a small area of clouding to try to "dissipate it" as was suggested earlier in this thread. I observed that area to get worse - i.e, the clouds to get brighter and therefore more noticeable.
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post #466 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 06:04 AM
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The theory presented by woots seems very likely to me, and I agree that the clouds are probably a phenomenon caused by the distance between the actual lcd and the outer protective layer. This is in contrast to the earlier idea that it's the actual liquid crystal fluid density causing it. The clouds just don't look like the effect you get when you press on an lcd to me, they are a different type of effect. It definitely isn't simple backlight bleed either (where the entire screen looks grey rather than black and is completely normal for lcds). I'm convinced this is to do with the way the outer layer is in contact with the lcd screen underneath. The (tiny) distance between them is most probably not quite uniform across the entire surface area. Looking closely at the clouds, it seems like they are lying right on the outer surface to me. I reckon the lcd panel itself in all these sets is probably fine, but whatever protective layer that sits on top is at fault. This still doesn't mean it's fixable, as the screen component is probably one sealed unit that is inseperable. As I have said in a previous post, my set isn't bad enough for me to return, but I'm still interested in the cause of the problem nonetheless.

Somebody needs to be daring and have at it with the suction cup. haha.
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post #467 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 06:14 AM
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So, I pulled the trigger at Best Buy on the last day of the sale and the next day came accross this thread. The talk here makes it seem like it would be virtually impossible for me to get a tv without this issue, which is to some extent to be expected as dissatisfied people typically make a lot more noise than satisfied people. My question is whether anyone has bought their TV very recently and NOT had this clouding problem, or should I be expecting to have to return my TV...
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post #468 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronius View Post

So, I pulled the trigger at Best Buy on the last day of the sale and the next day came accross this thread. The talk here makes it seem like it would be virtually impossible for me to get a tv without this issue, which is to some extent to be expected as dissatisfied people typically make a lot more noise than satisfied people. My question is whether anyone has bought their TV very recently and NOT had this clouding problem, or should I be expecting to have to return my TV...


It's up to you whether the problem it is bad enough to return it or not. I am returning mine this weekend. I will accept a replacement on two conditions. It must have a November build date and they are going to have to deliver the set at no charge and be willing to pick it up at no charge if it is also defective. The delivery should not be a problem as I only live 3 or 4 miles from the store. If they do not agree then I will just have to wait until Sony corrects the problem. 3.5K is way to much to spend on a defective set. From my past experiences with Sony repair technicians I do not see this as a field repairable problem. What concerns me even more is that this will get worse over time. Once my 30 day return policy is up, I am at the mercy of Sony - just not worth it. Customer satisfaction is not their hallmark (my experience at least).
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post #469 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 06:51 AM
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I have a replacement XBR3 being delivered from BB later today. I'll post my findings, but I'm betting my results will be the same - another cloudy set.

I was in Boston yesterday at a tradeshow - in the same building was a Sony Style store. I looked at two of their XBR3s very closely - switching inputs and watching dark scenes.

Their 46 inch XBR3 - which has probably been in the showroom since August - was perfectly black. No clouding at all. I viewed this in their dark/theater room. I've now seen what I should have received.

Their new 50+ inch XBR3 (I forget the screen size of the newest/largest XBRs) was cloudy. Easily seen in the bright/well lit part of there showroom.

I plan on being present for the replacement/swap so I can make sure I don't get a set that is worse.

Lumpy
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post #470 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woots View Post

Possible Discovery: Please read if you have clouding!
Last night I think I discovered why these screens are doing this. When Comcast came to install my dvr they put finger prints all over my LCD screen moving it around. I cleaned off the surface with some LCD safe wipes and I noticed that where I wiped down the screen (and I wiped very lightly as you could imagine) the clouding issue became worse in that area specifically. I was lead to believe that surface pressure may have something to do with this. I took the back of my hand and pressed gently against the clouded area to test this theory out and sure enough the clouding altered right around where I press and it became greater in that area. What I think is happening... is the protective surface layer however it is mounted around the screen is mounted unevenly causing the surface to warp slightly. This would bow the surface layer randomly into the LCD causing white spots that we all see as clouds. Most of the screen shots I have noticed the top left corner seems to be the most common area of this problem, it is possible the surface layer is warped there for so many people because that's where the mounting issue lies.

My concern about this is... I do not know the long term effects of pressure against an lcd screen this very well may cause permanent damage over time (and it may not) LOL.. if this TV didn't cost almost 4 grand I would use a small suction cup on the clouded areas and gently pull the surface layer from the lcd screen to test if it cures the clouding (that of course is not a solution) if this is the problem the surface layer needs to be remounted around the TV frame.

Needless to say after wiping down those fingerprints I made this clouding issue way worse then it was at day one of purchase I may very well have to exchange it.

If anyone has any experiences that validate my thoughts above please chime in.

have you tried wiping your tv when its turned off?? I dont see any clouding on mine (I have a 40'') , however, when I do clean mine, I make sure its turned off before I do any cleaning to it. I use that monster cable flat panel cleaner.

Im assuming you tried to clean it when its on????

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post #471 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhadley View Post

Well, I found a Best Buy that had a couple of XBR2's in stock yesterday and so I decided to pay alittle more than I would online so I could have the option of returning the TV instead of being stuck with it (as in the case of an online order).

I was careful to keep the box upright for the entire trip home (45 miles) in the back on my 2005 Suburban... it JUST fits.

Got it home, and went through it with a fine tooth comb. It is a September 06 Build.

During the whole process, I was careful to not touch the screen at anytime.

I could see some very faint clouding in the upper left hand corner, but in comparison to other I have seen in this forum (THANK YOU for the Pictures guys!) I think I am one of the lucky ones. I'llreport it sa acceptable and hence a NOT cloudy display. I used my 8M pixel Sony camera to take some pictures while on a tripod (long shutter times, etc.) and tried to get as faithful a representation of the screen I could. However, it will look a little lighter in person... some aspect of the light the camera cannot represent as well. Be sure to view this on a good CRT if possible.

It would appear that the screen brightness (currently set on 2) doesn't seem to increase the cloudiness such that I could tell.

I also noticed last night that pressing against the screen seemed to increase the cloudiness so I am NOT going to put this on it's stand were my 3yr old can touch it and admire all of the pretty colors it makes when you do, but will mount it instead on the wall for sure... and then place a table in front of it to slow him down. The pictures were taken after I touched it.

I hope it helps.


Your picture does not appear acceptable to me at all. That cloudiness will really detract from the viewing experience.
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post #472 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowFox View Post

Doesn't everyone agree that if it's made in November or beyond it's fine? I think one or two got defects in November but it seems like the wisest thing to do, right? Would that be even possible? To ask the employee "Hey look I want this model with a production date of so and so." Also how many agree that this problem will dissipate within the next 2-4 months?

I have personally seen two 46XBR2s with November 2006 build date.
This was at two local BB stores. One was on display and one was
brand new out of the box. The latter was purchased by me and opened
while still in the store... got a refund 5 minutes later.

Both had the cloudy issue. The one on display was much worse, but the
one in the box still had unacceptable amount of white clouds.

I now have a 46XBR2 on order with SonyStyle, which won't ship for another
three week. However, I'm seriously considering cancelling that order and
wait a couple more months. While I may get a 46XBR2 from a newer batch,
it is still possible to get one with the white clouds. I really don't feel like
dealling with taking delivery and having to make arrangements for a return.
Too much hassle.... Perhaps I'll just wait a copule of months, or until
no more reports of white clouds are posted?
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post #473 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMoore View Post

Perhaps I'll just wait a copule of months, or until no more reports of white clouds are posted?

I bought a 46XBR2 on the last day of the sale and am expecting delivery next wednesday (12/6). The Best Buy I bought it at was on a delivery time mega backlog because of the thanksgiving holiday.

Anyway, the more I read about this TV, the closer I get to calling best buy up and cancelling delivery and getting a refund. Between the clouds, which it seems I am pretty much guaranteed to have, and this lip-synching problem with the HDMI 1.2 which is supposed to be fixed in the soon-to-be-released HDMI 1.3, it is looking like it makes less and less sense to be investing $3000 in this particular TV at this particular time.

And I would assume that the "It's not that bad" and "no TV is perfect" people are either people with pre-September 2006 build dates, or people outside of their 30-day return policy window (and thus are trying to convince themselves as much as anyone else). Based on the pictures I've seen, if the store model I used to evaluate this TV had the clouding issue, I wouldn't have considered buying it.
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post #474 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMoore View Post

I have personally seen two 46XBR2s with November 2006 build date.
This was at two local BB stores. One was on display and one was
brand new out of the box. The latter was purchased by me and opened
while still in the store... got a refund 5 minutes later.

Both had the cloudy issue. The one on display was much worse, but the
one in the box still had unacceptable amount of white clouds.

I now have a 46XBR2 on order with SonyStyle, which won't ship for another
three week. However, I'm seriously considering cancelling that order and
wait a couple more months. While I may get a 46XBR2 from a newer batch,
it is still possible to get one with the white clouds. I really don't feel like
dealling with taking delivery and having to make arrangements for a return.
Too much hassle.... Perhaps I'll just wait a copule of months, or until
no more reports of white clouds are posted?

Kathy,

That is smart thing to do IMO. I might end up lucky with a set that is ok if I roder now...but if not, who wants the hassle, especially for the price of these sets. I am patient enough to wait until this problem is solved. I would pay more money for a problem-free set.

-Michael
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post #475 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 09:17 AM
 
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I just checked the build date on my cloudy XBR3 and it's September of '06.

One curious thing is that the clouding doesn't seem to be consistent anymore. Sometimes it is very prominent and other times it doesn't seem to present itself. Not sure if that's just me getting used to it, though. I really want a perfect tv for the amount of money paid for it. Guess now it is a waiting game.
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post #476 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 09:18 AM
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Bottom line for me is this, if I do accept the delivery, I am going to look very closely at the clouding issue. I currently use two different LCD monitors, one for my computer at work and one for my computer at home, and both have a perfect black background display. I will expect this TV to have the same uniformity that every LCD I've ever seen has. The slightest distortion anywhere and that TV is going back and I will wait for this issue to be resolved.

While LCDs this size might be new, the technology isn't, so there is absolutely no excusing the kind of splotchy discoloration I have seen from the pictures posted.
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post #477 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronius View Post

I bought a 46XBR2 on the last day of the sale and am expecting delivery next wednesday (12/6). The Best Buy I bought it at was on a delivery time mega backlog because of the thanksgiving holiday.

Anyway, the more I read about this TV, the closer I get to calling best buy up and cancelling delivery and getting a refund.

If you know which BestBuy store your 46XBR2 is coming from, ask them if you
can just go down there and have the open the box right there. Get it plugged
in and check it out... spend a few minutes with it... if you see the white cloud
problem, just get a refund right there. That's what I did... save time for me,
the delivery drivers, and the salespersons at the BB.

Keep us posted!
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post #478 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronius View Post

And I would assume that the "It's not that bad" and "no TV is perfect" people are either people with pre-September 2006 build dates, or people outside of their 30-day return policy window (and thus are trying to convince themselves as much as anyone else).

First, get one of these sets home and watch it. The TV is arguably the best TV set you can buy for it's size. This issue is blown way out of proportion by people. Only 2 pictures in this thread were bad, and one picture wasn't even a Sony. Everyone else is truly approaching some sort of issues about how much money they just spent or something. Stop looking at black inputless screens only people, you are obsessing too much. You made a wonderful and beautiful purchase, so enjoy it now.

Watch a movie or some HD to determine if you really have this "problem." It's not the black screen only. The second part of testing for this issue, is to actually watch the TV.

If you can watch TV without seeing "clouds," your set is fine. Stop staring for it, you have to really notice it. People stop tripping please. There is and will always be something imperfect about every single TV made now and in the future.

If this were truly the widespead madness referred to here since September 2006, these sets would not be selling, and retailers would be pulling them from inventory. But for a couple of exceptions, this thread is for buyers remorse.
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post #479 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 10:08 AM
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Here is a pic from my new 40XBR2. Now keep in mind, I took this pic in the dark, at an extreme angle. Most of this is not visible (in fact, I don't think it is at all) from a straight-on view.

Is this clouding/banding/uneven backlight?

Just curious if I should return it. Will I even be any better off?

Site: Sony KDL-55HX820 | Sony KDL-55NX810 | Sony KDL-40XBR
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post #480 of 9118 Old 11-29-2006, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jktrading View Post

Another misinformed consumer, imagine that. Someone wanted to sell an XBR3, don't you dislike some sales people?

Anyway, there are 2 differences between XBR2 and XBR3 models. The XBR3 has a black piano finish where XBR2 is silver and can be interchanged with other colors at additional cost. Also, the XBR3 has an 18 month warranty, whereas XBR2 has 12 months.

I have xbr3 and I have had no problems.
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