Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 193 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,299 69.13%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.87%
Voters: 1879. You may not vote on this poll

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post #5761 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyland View Post

Hi,

I'm going to return my 40XBR2 to BB. I was hoping to be able to try the firmware upgrade before my 30 day return period expires, but it didn't make it to me in time.

What are people recommending as alternatives? The Samsungs look pretty good and I see that JVC has a 40" 1080p LCD available too.

Thanks,
Tim

Also Mitsubishi LT231 series... Some Samsungs are reporting clouding as well I think (since panels are same as Sony). With Sharps, read up on the banding issues. Some D92 folks reporting them as well. Pioneer Elite Plasma, but that's big bucks.

Jay S.
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post #5762 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JayS99 View Post

Also Mitsubishi LT231 series... Some Samsungs are reporting clouding as well I think (since panels are same as Sony). With Sharps, read up on the banding issues. Some D92 folks reporting them as well. Pioneer Elite Plasma, but that's big bucks.

Jay S.

Can't do plasma as its going in my sun-room. Narrowed it down to currently available 40-46" LCD. Doesn't have to have 1080p... I'll get another one in a couple of years and save the money in the meantime.
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post #5763 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyland View Post

I'm not that patient... I'm going to bring another one home with me today, most likely. I'm hooked on HDTV now and won't be able to look at the big whole the missing TV will leave.


im getting my d92 from BB today.

LC-46d92U
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post #5764 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budster1949 View Post

Viper -- You're so right! There's too much obsessing here about clouds that can only be seen in exposures of several seconds. The human eye does not work like a CCD, accumulating photons over time.

While I haven't yet tried your fix, I will do so soon on my 40V2500. I am convinced as I look at my clouds that they originate from fixed areas around the frame, and go diagonally across the panel. We've all seen the pictures, and looked at our own screens. None are identical, but the patterns are similar, and this suggests stressing of the panels. Each is a little different, because they were put together by human beings without rigid specifications for tightening the screws.

I have one question. After taking the back off, would it be a good idea to loosen every screw that secures the panel to the frame, or just those that are associated with clouds?

I would only suggest adjusting the screws that are directly associated with the areas on the screen in which you are experiencing clouding. That way you shouldn't accidentally change the areas on the screen that look fine. The whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality applies. The first time I adjusted the screws, I accidentally introduced a mild cloud of my own, so I opened it back up and got rid of it. Learn from my mistake. While performing this procedure isn't overly difficult, having to do it twice because you did something stupid like I did will just cause you to use a different portion of your vocabulary....

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Originally Posted by budster1949 View Post

I ask, because it seems to me that loosening them all might alllow the entire panel to "relax". What do you think?

See above statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by budster1949 View Post

Oh yeah, one other thing. Do you make house calls?



Depends on the mileage reimbursement I get! JK


Best of luck!

-Viper
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post #5765 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 07:38 AM
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Nascar Dog,

Does it fix the flashlight problems that one might see in the corners of the panel.

Also, since you cant post the files on this website because of a size limit, what about posting them on a share site with a link via avsforum. I am sure alot of people here will be interested.
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post #5766 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar Dog View Post

I received the firmware update for my 46XBR2 yesterday and applied it last night.

have you tried 1080p threw component from your xbox 360 yet? just to see if they updated anything else
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post #5767 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:03 AM
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Viper,

Could you be a sweetie and purchase yourself a Samsung LN-S4695/96 and take some pictures with instructions on unscrewing and opening up the TV like you did for your Sony??? There are a lot of unhappy Samsung owners over at our thread who are suffering from clouding and other mura defects too. Myself included. The panels are made in the same factory.

My TV had one annoying mura streak that rose vertically above the samsung logo on the bottom of the screen. 6 weeks later I've developed new clouding on the entire right side of my screen. Had I known new clouding would have appeared at a later date, I would have returned my TV while I had the chance to.
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post #5768 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer01 View Post

For those of you who claim a class action won't work, or the lawyers are just trying to rip you off, you don't understand the process. What will probably happen is Sony will be forced to fix the televisions, or perhaps each owner could receive some monetary compensation (i.e. $500, maybe the whole value of the tv, who knows)...

(Really, I'm from Sony and I'm here trying to post misinformation to trick consumers. I also implanted a tiny radio transmitter in your tooth to monitor your conversations. The internet can be a scary place.)

My question is this: if you choose not to apply the update that Sony is providing, does this compromise your ability to make a claim against them? In other words if one wishes to participate in the suit would one be compelled to install the update?
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post #5769 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:06 AM
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Let me tell you something.

If in fact this is a Sony rep (and I doubt it is), that person is the one putting SONY in danger of serious consequences due to their ignorance of this situation. I have printed out EVERY single post that seemed like it was from Sony rep, or person claiming to be. I have also printed out their suggested "fix" to the issue.

Sorry, but spending $4000 on a set like this and getting these issues is 100% totally unacceptable. Hell, I went to my in-laws last night, watched a movie on my father inlaws 42 inch Olevia (sp?) LCD, and I could actually sit through and watch it without the stupid cloud distractions. The picture looked very good, after being calibrated, and I sat there kind of PO'd that he had spent $1000 on his set, and I, $4000. The fact that Consumer Reports has added Olevia to it's tested LCD's, and it tested very well, is another slap in the face.

One has to wonder about the "magnificance" of Sony's name. Their reputation is going to sh*t in a hurry.

I was at BB returning some cables that I did not need, and stood in front of a 46XBR2 that they had showing a beautiful Blu-Ray movie. There were about 4 people standing around, 2 of whom were contemplating the set. One of them asked me a question, and I in fact admitted that I owned a 46XBR3. I also readily told them the issues that not only I was experiencing, but many others. I gave them the website address as well to read for themselves.

I'm not going to sit quietly by as others become involved in this ridiculous issue that is 100% Sony's responsibility.

I walked to the set, changed the input, and BAM, there it was...clouds right before their very eyes. I was suprised at this since in the CC and BB where I have tried to find the issue, it had never shown up on the floor models.

There it was...not only the clouding issue, but the light leakage in the corners as well. The BB sales person was not really happy that I had done that and switched it back.

Fact is, Sony is right in saying they offer the best picture of any LCD. I will not ever dispute that. However, what good is such a picture when the other factors are distracting from watching said wonderful pic?

In regards to being careful what one posts here, give it a $%## rest. SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT EVERYONE. There is ZERO that can be done about it by anyone. We've got pages and pages of different people having the same issues. THAT is fact, not fiction. The fact that Sony needs to send some USB device as a fix further supports the FACT that they really are not looking for a solution, but a pacifier to stick in the mouths of those that are upset and angry at this issue.

I have waited and given it time to "go away", and instead, the issue has gotten worse over time and spread directly across my screen.

Screw Sony and any supposed representative from Sony on this site or anywhere else with their boastful claims. A picture that is effected by this means ZERO in the end.

GET IT RIGHT, FIX IT, or in the end, all you'll have left is a warehouse full of these beautiful sets with no one dumb enough to continue to drop their $$ on it any longer.
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post #5770 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyland View Post

Can't do plasma as its going in my sun-room. Narrowed it down to currently available 40-46" LCD. Doesn't have to have 1080p... I'll get another one in a couple of years and save the money in the meantime.

The Mitsubishi 46 is about $1000 less (Sharp D92s go the other direction) and is 1080P. The contrast is supposed a little less the Sony (1300:1 vs 1200:1). Some folks say that they don't compare, I saw the two side by side, and were very similar, edge obviously to Sony, but overall didn't feel the 231 to be vastly inferior. So far I haven't seen any major faults with the 231 listed.. Good luck, I understand about the refection with Plasma..

Jay S.
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post #5771 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MUGEN View Post

have you tried 1080p threw component from your xbox 360 yet? just to see if they updated anything else

That would be nice, but you would think Sony would hype 1080P through Component if they had added that!

Jay S.
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post #5772 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:14 AM
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PROBABLY the best way to "reduce" the clouding on SONY LCD screens.
For everyone who wants to try the VIPER TECHNIQUE (loosen screws to distress the tension producing clouding):
Read up on it from these links first!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9731742
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post #5773 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:35 AM
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evidence or not, i'm going to proudly state that i tried the VIPER TECHNIQUE last night, but i can't say my results were immediately noticeable.

At first it looked like they'd not not changed much and i'd possibly created light leakage in the corners where there'd previously been none........ but as the 46XBR3 (oct build) stayed on, in less than an hour i think the major flashlight in the upper left corner DID spread out some.
I definitely didnt find it quite as noticable as i had the night previous.

In a scene where there's a person in the foreground, and a completely black background, clouds are absolutely noticable still- but I have to admit it definitely seemed to fix that bright distracting flashlight. I'm hoping over time maybe things inside will "settle" and maybe the PQ will improve more and more. I'm going to keep monitoring the thing nightly. I think i can live with this as long as nothing changes for the worse from here, since i'm past the 30 day return period I feel i've done the right thing. Thanks for being the 'mad scientist' VIPER.

btw
I'm using all the PETMIC settings, w/backlight on '2' still. I use ADVANCE CE on low tho.

my apologies for not having pics, my digital camera is useless in low light and the flash doesnt do the images justice
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post #5774 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nagy View Post

Well, today is Friday and I just returned from a sports bar and drinking about six glasses of 12 ounces of beer as usual and not carefully reading the posts after Jeff's flashing his TV and if you are still within 30 day return window, RETURN THE DAMN TV WHILE YOU STILL HAVE THE CHANCE AND WAIT TILL NEXT NEW SONY MODEL ARRIVES WITH 120HZ, LED BACKLIGHTS and HDMI 1.3, THEN STOP READING THIS THREAD AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE. FORGET ABOUT THE LAWSUIT, IT WILL NEVER WORK.

THIS TIME THIS IS MY LAST POST FOR THIS THREAD. I AM SO DAMN SICK OF IT. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN DESTRESSING THE TV, DON'T AND RETURN THE DAMN TV.

I CAN'T BELIEVE I CAN STILL TYPE AFTER COMING BACK FROM A SPORTS BAR AND DRINKING SO MUCH BEER.

ONCE AGAIN, HAVE A GOOD LIFE.

Peter

I put money on the next model from Sony having the same, 'Mura Effect' issues. Sony do not know how to rectify this problem.
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post #5775 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxxer View Post

Hey folks ...

This is AWESOME!!



Too funny!! Unlike most of the responses from those who claim "they have been following this thread for a while", I actually read ALL responses. After the above post, I've noticed a distinct toning down of what is being offered and the manner it is being offered in. This is the best yet!

Anyone ever stop to read the above post? I would not be surprised if this post was actually sourced from Sony. Notice how it states no facts about anything. To paraphrase - "I have a perfect 52" and these MAY be less affected than a 46". No allusion to any issue with the 40's, or even an admission to the fact that both the 40's and 46's have significant photograhic evidence that this issue exists.

Then there is the FUD of (again - paraphrased) "be careful what you do ... YOU will be responsible for it " - this sounds amazingly like the discalimer of self-installed fixes to me.

But the absolute best ... and I mean the icing on the cake is the "be careful what you post on here, this thread could very well become evidence".

I actually laughed out loud that a lawyer would post this as a possible threat, or more FUD. There is nothing in or on this forum that a good attorney could not prove (or at a minimum - get a sustainable objection) to be nothing more than conjecture or hearsay. Quite frankly - while there is a great deal of "representative evidence", there is CLEARLY no scientific evidence.

Sony could give crap less about the cost of the "USB fix" - Sony cares about perception. Qiuet the dissenters and others won't know of the issue. "We make the best LCD on the planet and our stock shows it!. We know PS3 may not be the bomb we said it would, but our leadership in LCD is making up for it. Howver, it may be in our best interest to calm this issue of un-even backlighting down."

Conversely ...

Class Actions make lawyers rich, and get Corporations a slap on the wrist. They are without a doubt the "Powerball Lucky 6" for layers that get the right case. Consumers will get the "USB Fix" as the Corp consideration for wrong doing - but the winning litigator will get the VALUE (in cash) of typically 33% the cost of the "USB fix" or some other "undisclosed amount" of the total wrong doing.

I'll give the poster the benefit of the doubt as trying to help - but I will continue to post anything and everything about this issue that I feel contributes to the overall good. "Being careful" here has a singular outcome - it benefits Sony, Inc.

Please READ!!

Couldn't agree more
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post #5776 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayS99 View Post

The Mitsubishi 46 is about $1000 less (Sharp D92s go the other direction) and is 1080P. The contrast is supposed a little less the Sony (1300:1 vs 1200:1). Some folks say that they don't compare, I saw the two side by side, and were very similar, edge obviously to Sony, but overall didn't feel the 231 to be vastly inferior. So far I haven't seen any major faults with the 231 listed.. Good luck, I understand about the refection with Plasma..

Jay S.

I don't see the mitsu's on the BB site (which is where I got my 40XBR2)... Where do they sell these?

Thanks,
Tim
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post #5777 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper04468 View Post

I would only suggest adjusting the screws that are directly associated with the areas on the screen in which you are experiencing clouding. That way you shouldn't accidentally change the areas on the screen that look fine. The whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality applies. The first time I adjusted the screws, I accidentally introduced a mild cloud of my own, so I opened it back up and got rid of it. Learn from my mistake. While performing this procedure isn't overly difficult, having to do it twice because you did something stupid like I did will just cause you to use a different portion of your vocabulary....



See above statement.



Depends on the mileage reimbursement I get! JK


Best of luck!

-Viper


Hate to do this Viper, but


Last night I tried your fix and yes there was a noticable difference. I did only adjust the screws in the effected area, but this morning i went to see if there was any difference from the night before and there was! I had the the flashlight effect in the two bottom corners. These were not there before. The amount that i loosened the screws was very minimal.

So i promptly took my tv down again and tightened all the screws back to where they were before. The corners are back to normal and so is the clouding

So for those of you who are going to try this, becarefu and be prepared to open your set more than once.

I was also noticing that it is possible to have this tv mounted with the back off and possibly make the adjusments while the tv is on. I'm thinking it would be much easier to fine tune the issue if possible at all.

What are your thoughts on this viper?
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post #5778 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyland View Post

Hi,

I'm going to return my 40XBR2 to BB. I was hoping to be able to try the firmware upgrade before my 30 day return period expires, but it didn't make it to me in time.

What are people recommending as alternatives? The Samsungs look pretty good and I see that JVC has a 40" 1080p LCD available too.

Thanks,
Tim


I'm now recommending looking out the window - it's just like looking out a window!

GT: irunnoft
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post #5779 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyland View Post

I don't see the mitsu's on the BB site (which is where I got my 40XBR2)... Where do they sell these?

Thanks,
Tim

CC has the 46131's. A/V Mom & Pops sell the top-of-the-line 46231. Plus, check: http://www.walts.com/ (on-line, good reputation)

Nice TV

Stew in Florida
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post #5780 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 09:43 AM
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FWIW - I was at Best Buy last night and they just now got a 52XBR2 - not 3 - on their display floor. Funny - they took the batteries out of the remote and had it set on an OTA HD feed. Since I know where the buttons are on the side, I pressed the input button and cycled it forward to a blank input. Guess what? Even with the lighting on the sales floor, I could make out a big, white, puffy cloud that was dead in the top middle portion of the screen. It was a huge cloud! I walked off and left the display on the input so the glaring cloud could be seen by all. What a shame!

GT: irunnoft
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post #5781 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 09:55 AM
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Just an update.

I plugged the Sony back in last night. I set the TV back to where I had it and I really don' think the update affected anything during normal viewing. Keep in mind I use VGA from the Xbox to watch DVDs. Not a whole lot of adjusting can be done. My clouds were there still, plain as can be.

Now being the nice guy I am....


http://members.shaw.ca/flowerdaycons...s_download.zip

Go to it you guys. Extract the 4 files, put them on a USB drive and give it a try. I would maybe make sure they are the only 4 files on the drive. Important: the File system on the USB key is FAT so make sure your USB drive is formatted FAT as well. Not FAT32 and not NTFS.

One other note: the Drive they sent me is a 64MB, I don't know what the TV can address for space, but having too big of a USB drive might cause issues.

Instructions:
Turn the TV on. When it's on plug the usb drive in. It will take 15 minutes and show you what it's doing as it does it. When it's done it will tell you to remove the USB key.
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post #5782 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer01 View Post

luckily I recently purchased a cloud free 52", although these sets seem less affected than their 46" counterparts.

I am an attorney, and if there is really a class action suit being filed I really wouldn't be trying to loosen screws to alleviate the clouding. That, in my opinion, could disqualify you from participating in such a class action.

Also, be careful what you post on here, this thread could very well become evidence.

Did you buy an xbr2 or xbr3 in the 52 inch version?
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post #5783 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyland View Post

Can't do plasma as its going in my sun-room. Narrowed it down to currently available 40-46" LCD. Doesn't have to have 1080p... I'll get another one in a couple of years and save the money in the meantime.

Since you don't have to have a 1080p panel, I'd suggest the Sony 40S2400.

I have one and it's wonderful.

I own both a S2000 and the S2400. The S2000 is decent. The S2400 is great.

Granted, it's a 768p and the PQ is not up to extreme XBR2 standards but it has great blacks and really excellent PQ.

While the PQ is not up to XBR2 standards, these panels do not suffer from clouding or banding issues that all the 1080p manufacterers seem to be experiencing in some form or another.

Oh yeah, it's a great value too because you can pick one up for half the price of the XBR2.

Just a thought. Good luck
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post #5784 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Flowerday View Post

Just an update.

I plugged the Sony back in last night. I set the TV back to where I had it and I really don' think the update affected anything during normal viewing. Keep in mind I use VGA from the Xbox to watch DVDs. Not a whole lot of adjusting can be done. My clouds were there still, plain as can be.

Now being the nice guy I am....


http://members.shaw.ca/flowerdaycons...s_download.zip

Go to it you guys. Extract the 4 files, put them on a USB drive and give it a try. I would maybe make sure they are the only 4 files on the drive. Important: the File system on the USB key is FAT so make sure your USB drive is formatted FAT as well. Not FAT32 and not NTFS.

One other note: the Drive they sent me is a 64MB, I don't know what the TV can address for space, but having too big of a USB drive might cause issues.

Thanks, Jeff for your time. As I said in a previous post, you've gone above and beyond now that you have the Sharp. How's that working out? Have about a week left on my return window and not sure what to do at this point. Do appreciate all the time you've spent!
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post #5785 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 1miamifan View Post

Thanks, Jeff for your time. As I said in a previous post, you've gone above and beyond now that you have the Sharp. How's that working out? Have about a week left on my return window and not sure what to do at this point. Do appreciate all the time you've spent!

Sharp is not working out either. After going OCD on it I've started seeing slight banding that drives me nuts in moving scenes. Damn rolling effect.

Now I'm trying to find a cheap alternative to hold me over till the next gen Sony, Samsung etc.

If it's cheap in comparison, I'll live with it's issues. Mitsu isn't available here in Calgary, that I can find.


Thinking the Toshiba 42HL196 maybe.
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post #5786 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MUGEN View Post

have you tried 1080p threw component from your xbox 360 yet? just to see if they updated anything else

No 1080p over component. That appears to be a hardware change.
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post #5787 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by scherer326 View Post

Nascar Dog,

Does it fix the flashlight problems that one might see in the corners of the panel.

Also, since you cant post the files on this website because of a size limit, what about posting them on a share site with a link via avsforum. I am sure alot of people here will be interested.

Jeff Flowerday has taken care of this request. Here is what he posted:

Just an update.

I plugged the Sony back in last night. I set the TV back to where I had it and I really don' think the update affected anything during normal viewing. Keep in mind I use VGA from the Xbox to watch DVDs. Not a whole lot of adjusting can be done. My clouds were there still, plain as can be.

Now being the nice guy I am....


http://members.shaw.ca/flowerdaycon...is_download.zip

Go to it you guys. Extract the 4 files, put them on a USB drive and give it a try. I would maybe make sure they are the only 4 files on the drive. Important: the File system on the USB key is FAT so make sure your USB drive is formatted FAT as well. Not FAT32 and not NTFS.

One other note: the Drive they sent me is a 64MB, I don't know what the TV can address for space, but having too big of a USB drive might cause issues.
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post #5788 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JayS99 View Post

Nascar Dog,
I guess this is good to hear for the folks whose problem wasn't that we see the clouds over normal programming. Having the backlight go dim with an empty signal is also a function of the Adv. C.E. Have you seen any difference in how those settings now operate in conjunction with the update? Does the dimming associated with the update look like Adv. C.E. set to low in Custom mode?

Jay S.

Before I applied the update, the Advanced CE (Tried all settings) did not kill the backlight on inputs with no signal. I know that for a fact and now after the firmware update, without adjusting anything, the screen stays dark when there is no signal. Like I said before, that was the only thing I did not like about this TV and they have fixed it for me.
The Advanced CE still works the way it did before from what I can see.
I am very picky about how my TV looks and all I can say it that it looks damn good now. No regrets.
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post #5789 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:38 AM
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Hate to do this Viper, but


Last night I tried your fix and yes there was a noticable difference. I did only adjust the screws in the effected area, but this morning i went to see if there was any difference from the night before and there was! I had the the flashlight effect in the two bottom corners. These were not there before. The amount that i loosened the screws was very minimal.

So i promptly took my tv down again and tightened all the screws back to where they were before. The corners are back to normal and so is the clouding

So for those of you who are going to try this, becarefu and be prepared to open your set more than once.

I was also noticing that it is possible to have this tv mounted with the back off and possibly make the adjusments while the tv is on. I'm thinking it would be much easier to fine tune the issue if possible at all.

What are your thoughts on this viper?

Thanks for the information. I must say that the clouding on my set is not as bad as many on here. Just a portion lower right and a little more central. I think I will hold fire on adjusting the screws until we know more...

I know I should grow a set and have a go but I still have cold feet!
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post #5790 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by scherer326 View Post

Nascar Dog,

Does it fix the flashlight problems that one might see in the corners of the panel.

I do not have that problem but I am pretty sure it will not eliminate it, only minimize it when not watching a signal. Basically, this update is only a benefit to people that have an older model (without any cloud/flashlight issues) and want to have the latest firmware.
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