Official Sony Bravia LCD Uneven Backlight/Cloudy Thread - Page 196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Does your Sony 46" XBR LCD suffer from an uneven backlight or cloudy background?
YES, clouds can been seen when dark colors are displayed or when switching inputs 1,299 69.13%
NO, my screen has a perfect, fully even, backlight 580 30.87%
Voters: 1879. You may not vote on this poll

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post #5851 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 08:57 PM
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Seen many people question whether or not opening up the back of your XBR and "tinkering" with screws will void any warranty on the XBR, and wanted to set folks straight.

The short answer is a definitive "maybe" but it is extremely doubtful.

I'm a heavy horsepower guy - if it has a motor it was meant to be modded to the hilt and as such, warranty issues come up ALL the time for folks that wrench on new vehicles. I mean ... people actually believe that adding a drop-in K&N air filter will void the Manufactures Warranty (read: alleviate them from addressing any issue) in its entirety. This is quite simplty more FUD that Manufactureres of all things want you to believe. Look up the Magnusson-Moss Act, which was enacted specifically to protect consumers from Warranty Claims denied by Manufacturers or Extended Warranty Insurance companies. Read up on it.

For those waiting for the movie version - it simply states that any change or modification that you do CANNOT VOID A WARRANTY IN ANY WAY UNLESS DIRECTLY PROVEN TO BE THE CAUSE OF THE CLAIM. This is a powerful thing. In other words, if I put a new Borla exhaust on my 2007 Corvette and I later develop a brake problem, the Dealer (or Manufacturer) has the burden of proof that my exhaust was the direct cause of the brake failure in order to deny a warranty claim.

Same holds true for all warranties on all things warranted. If I pull my back cover off of mt TV and spray it a custom "Sienna Gold Metallic" paint - then later my H5 circuit board goes TU - Sony has the burden of proof that my "mods" were the direct cause of the failure of the H5 board. They CANNOT simply dismiss the warranty claim without proving direct cause first.

Bottom line here is that if it is reasonable that your actions would not cause any failure of the TV then it will not void nor limit any future warranty claim you may have.

Hope this clears things up a bit in this regard.
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post #5852 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 09:15 PM
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Anyone have a February build yet...?
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post #5853 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:03 PM
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Buwhaahahahaahahahaha!!!!


UNSUBSRIBING FROM THIS THREAD!


I got my 46D92 and its FREAKING SWEET.

That is all, Good luck to you all that are in denial, im sorry to those of you past your 30days, and to those in your 30days, Take it back.

I could be really lucky and got a good one. But If the other D92s are just as clean as mine I hope you the best to switch over.

LC-46d92U
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post #5854 of 9118 Old 02-10-2007, 10:45 PM
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btw guys, i think i was fast to post, There should be more owners of this tv before we make assumptions.

Mine is perfect, another persons may not.


Best of luck and I hope they are for the most part.

LC-46d92U
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post #5855 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 12:23 AM
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Just a small warning to anyone brave enough to download the USB files and try them on your TV.

I have the XBR3 USB FW update and I had copied the files from the device to my computer to upload and share on this site. However, once I had them in a folder on my desktop I compared each file to its original on the SONY microdrive and they were not exactly matched KB for KB. I.E. one file showed a size of 1 KB on my computer while it was 4 KB on the microdrive. I opted not to post the files for people to download so as to not screw up their television set with faulty files that were not copied correctly. Yes, this could be related to having the USB device formatted differently than my hard drive (FAT32 vs FAT etc.). I cannot say that the files posted by Jeff / Nascar are not good, only that I would be cautious with them.

Also, the XBR2 and XBR3 updates are DIFFERENT, and the 52 inch model is not included in the update.

Just wanted to mention this for anyone thinking of making up their own USB key. It's probably not the best idea, as Firmware updates not done correctly could make your television have worse problems than clouds. If you really want the USB fix, call Sony and get a free 64MB microdrive out of it.
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post #5856 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mihalco View Post

The 40 and 46V2500 do have a USB port behind the small plastic cover (labeled Service) above the RF Coax input.


Thanks, I've checked on my 32 inch V2500 and there is a flap but no USB port behind it! I guess the 32" models don't have one
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post #5857 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 06:26 AM
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Greetings. I'm new to the forum, but purchased a Sony 46xbr2 nine days ago. Big time clouds! I am trying to return it to the place that I purchased it and just get my money back, but they will not take it back. They want to see the characteristics it is exhibiting, and want to swap it out with a new set.
Any advice???
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post #5858 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 07:08 AM
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What month was it manufactured (back of set)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemosh View Post

Greetings. I'm new to the forum, but purchased a Sony 46xbr2 nine days ago. Big time clouds! I am trying to return it to the place that I purchased it and just get my money back, but they will not take it back. They want to see the characteristics it is exhibiting, and want to swap it out with a new set.
Any advice???

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post #5859 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheely King View Post

To Skycoaster... This it what I notice on the January build set I have. That I'm sure has the new firmware. With the TV set to either Vivid mode or Standard mode and I switch to input 7... When the Banner in the top left corner saying Video7 first appears it is bright. Then with in 5 seconds it slowly dims in brightness as the backlighting is being decreased. Then if you just press the menu button... and the menu box appears on the srceen it is dim and slowly comes up in Brightness though a little quicker than when it dims. This will be more noticeable if the TV's other settings are set to bright such as Backlight 10, Power saving Off and Light sensor Off. Iv'e also noticed the Auto-Dimming in effect during normal viewing, though it is not too distracting and takes a few seconds of dark scene content for it to come into play. Unlike the Auto-Iris Sony uses in their SXRD sets which I find very distracting. Yesterday I went to a store and observed 3 other XBR's with earlier build dates and they do not react the way I just described. I hope this helped... One more thing just to be sure when you try this and I cant explain this yet... When you enter the menu for Vivid mode also select reset to return the settings back to the factory presets... From there you can alter them then it will still have the Auto-Dimming in effect if you're set has the newer firmware. The cloudiness my set has is still there the newer firmware does nothing to smooth it out. It only (at times) makes it harder to see. Key word bieng at times.
Jim H.

Thanks Wheely.......

That confirms my set does have the firmware update and that it doesnt do squat to the cloud/mura/flashlight issue. I use Petmics settings so I could never see this dimming on a blank input.

Still up in the air on the return. I am afraid the next one I get may be worse or have dead pixels. Driving me bananas..........

I love the picture otherwise.......
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post #5860 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemosh View Post

Greetings. I'm new to the forum, but purchased a Sony 46xbr2 nine days ago. Big time clouds! I am trying to return it to the place that I purchased it and just get my money back, but they will not take it back. They want to see the characteristics it is exhibiting, and want to swap it out with a new set.
Any advice???



Find someones cloudy picture in here, put it on a jump drive and go back to the store and be like, this, This Looks Like ASS! just make sure you are using the same TV in the pic as what you bought.

Granted it may be overexposed a little bit but thats on a need to kinow basis, and they dont need to know.

once they see that clouding they cant say its normal.

LC-46d92U
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post #5861 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:07 AM
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About to leave with second 40xbr2 for exchange or return and still can't make the decision! Pathetic! Sony you should pay, heavily for this drama!!!
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post #5862 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skycoaster View Post

Thanks Wheely.......

That confirms my set does have the firmware update and that it doesnt do squat to the cloud/mura/flashlight issue. I use Petmics settings so I could never see this dimming on a blank input.

Still up in the air on the return. I am afraid the next one I get may be worse or have dead pixels. Driving me bananas..........

I love the picture otherwise.......

which settings are petmics? and are they the best all around good looking settings or just specifically for cloud hiding?
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post #5863 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReBReTHa View Post

Find someones cloudy picture in here, put it on a jump drive and go back to the store and be like, this, This Looks Like ASS! just make sure you are using the same TV in the pic as what you bought.

Granted it may be overexposed a little bit but thats on a need to kinow basis, and they dont need to know.

LOL.
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post #5864 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:29 AM
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My second XB2 is a Jan build, (It has the software dimming fix... ) and has just the same clouds as the first, in fact, when you look at the posted pics all seem very similar. For the most part the clouds have similar positions and mottling, of course there is the flashlight thing too.
Some time ago I posted a little experiment where I deformed a pair of LCD computer panels and voila, identical clouds in both panels.
I agree with everyone that clouds are inevitable, but not certain. Which further reinforces a "manufacturing" or assembly error, not a defect in the fabrication of the panels. Which makes vipers fix encouraging
To this end, I popped my panel off the wall, and slightly loosened every retaining bolt, clip etc etc holding the panel in place and put it back on the wall. I did NOT retighten the screws. My logic is that I dont intend to move it from the wall anytime soon. This had a really significant effect. perhaps the most significant was the almost total loss of mottling as well as a diminishment and relocation of the clouds and loss of flashlights. Essentially the whole panel became more even. However there remained a darker area slightly off center to the left.
I reasoned that as the screws were no longer pressuring the panel, it was simply due to uneveness of the LCD media (I had noticed some relocation of clouds when used a cloth on the panel... So this is the goofy part. I used a brand new (out of the the plastic bag) 3/8ths of an inch paint roller and gave the panel a good slow rolling...(using the same pressure as I do when painting (ie NOT HARD)
This really smoothed out the last irregularities in the background and I am one happppppy customer. for the prime reason that I dont have to take this thing back to BB (I still have a couple of weeks to go) but I dont think I will change it now. it is quite lovely...
So if you are handy enough to play the viper trick, you probably have a paint roller and a new roll try part 2 it works
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post #5865 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simoncwatkins View Post

My second XB2 is a Jan build, (It has the software dimming fix... ) and has just the same clouds as the first, in fact, when you look at the posted pics all seem very similar. For the most part the clouds have similar positions and mottling, of course there is the flashlight thing too.
Some time ago I posted a little experiment where I deformed a pair of LCD computer panels and voila, identical clouds in both panels.
I agree with everyone that clouds are inevitable, but not certain. Which further reinforces a "manufacturing" or assembly error, not a defect in the fabrication of the panels. Which makes vipers fix encouraging
To this end, I popped my panel off the wall, and slightly loosened every retaining bolt, clip etc etc holding the panel in place and put it back on the wall. I did NOT retighten the screws. My logic is that I dont intend to move it from the wall anytime soon. This had a really significant effect. perhaps the most significant was the almost total loss of mottling as well as a diminishment and relocation of the clouds and loss of flashlights. Essentially the whole panel became more even. However there remained a darker area slightly off center to the left.
I reasoned that as the screws were no longer pressuring the panel, it was simply due to uneveness of the LCD media (I had noticed some relocation of clouds when used a cloth on the panel... So this is the goofy part. I used a brand new (out of the the plastic bag) 3/8ths of an inch paint roller and gave the panel a good slow rolling...(using the same pressure as I do when painting (ie NOT HARD)
This really smoothed out the last irregularities in the background and I am one happppppy customer. for the prime reason that I dont have to take this thing back to BB (I still have a couple of weeks to go) but I dont think I will change it now. it is quite lovely...
So if you are handy enough to play the viper trick, you probably have a paint roller and a new roll try part 2 it works

I'm at my 30 day window today. At this point I will either exchange or return depending on how much hassle at CC.
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post #5866 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:41 AM
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This is funny, and if you think about it- just plain drop dead hilarious..

People are now painting there 3K+ machines to make them prettier.

I am sure it works, but just think about this people- loosening screws, rolling with a paint brush- what next hanging pop cans from it with fishing line with some paper paper weights for the extra cloudy spots.

No offense to the poster- but this getting pretty silly for what it is worth.
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post #5867 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cicero67 View Post

I'm at my 30 day window today. At this point I will either exchange or return depending on how much hassle at CC.



retttuuuurrrnnnn it.

LC-46d92U
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post #5868 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:45 AM
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well when i called sony and asked them what they were going to do about it if and when the USB update didnt really fix it (because i was not going to unmount it just for them to send a repair guy that is not authorized to do anything) thye said i was thinking too far ahead (despite me knowing thats what will happen and it being a totally innapropriate thing to say when they are dragging their feet to help me).

i told them "listen, there seems to be a "real" way to fix it, but i cant and wont do it, cant you send a repair man over and have him apply that fix? you guys made the mistake and regular people have figured out the solution why not get those repair calls to start doing that instead of a useless software fix?"

of course they said while interesting that regular users are apparently better at fixing the issue than their own engineers, they said they wouldnt do it. i'm just wondering how long it will for sony to just do a damn recall or have their repairman actually authorized to repair this issue for us that cannot or will not do the screw method.
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post #5869 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:46 AM
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Viper and Simon,

Your combined fixes are encouraging. Can you both keep us posted for awhile so we can tell if your fixes are permanent? I think it would be very useful information. Thanks!!!

Jeff
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post #5870 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simoncwatkins View Post

My second XB2 is a Jan build, (It has the software dimming fix... ) and has just the same clouds as the first, in fact, when you look at the posted pics all seem very similar. For the most part the clouds have similar positions and mottling, of course there is the flashlight thing too.
Some time ago I posted a little experiment where I deformed a pair of LCD computer panels and voila, identical clouds in both panels.
I agree with everyone that clouds are inevitable, but not certain. Which further reinforces a "manufacturing" or assembly error, not a defect in the fabrication of the panels. Which makes vipers fix encouraging
To this end, I popped my panel off the wall, and slightly loosened every retaining bolt, clip etc etc holding the panel in place and put it back on the wall. I did NOT retighten the screws. My logic is that I dont intend to move it from the wall anytime soon. This had a really significant effect. perhaps the most significant was the almost total loss of mottling as well as a diminishment and relocation of the clouds and loss of flashlights. Essentially the whole panel became more even. However there remained a darker area slightly off center to the left.
I reasoned that as the screws were no longer pressuring the panel, it was simply due to uneveness of the LCD media (I had noticed some relocation of clouds when used a cloth on the panel... So this is the goofy part. I used a brand new (out of the the plastic bag) 3/8ths of an inch paint roller and gave the panel a good slow rolling...(using the same pressure as I do when painting (ie NOT HARD)
This really smoothed out the last irregularities in the background and I am one happppppy customer. for the prime reason that I dont have to take this thing back to BB (I still have a couple of weeks to go) but I dont think I will change it now. it is quite lovely...
So if you are handy enough to play the viper trick, you probably have a paint roller and a new roll try part 2 it works

Interesting twist about the paint roller, was it side to side, up and down, or random?

(Why do I feel like I just watched Karate Kid - Part 1?)

Jay S.
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post #5871 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 08:50 AM
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hey wait, can someone that has not done the screw thing apply the paint roller and see if that helps? i meant the screws may help even the light out, but maybe simply using the paintroller anyway will even it out as well.
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post #5872 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 09:41 AM
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After reading many of these posts I'm wondering what to do. I was very interested in the Sony KDL-40V2500 until I read about the clouding problems. I could consider the 40S2010, but I'd hate to do that if the cloud problem with the 2500 will be fixed in the months to come. I'm eager to replace my old tv, but I can wait if need be. This will be my main TV. I'm not a gamer and only watch a few shows, but I love to watch movies.

Any advice?
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post #5873 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2 View Post

What month was it manufactured (back of set)?

my set was manufactured in dec 2006...from mexico.
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post #5874 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadavis View Post

After reading many of these posts I'm wondering what to do. I was very interested in the Sony KDL-40V2500 until I read about the clouding problems. I could consider the 40S2010, but I'd hate to do that if the cloud problem with the 2500 will be fixed in the months to come. I'm eager to replace my old tv, but I can wait if need be. This will be my main TV. I'm not a gamer and only watch a few shows, but I love to watch movies.

Any advice?

It is a bit of a risk to go for a Sony. Just make sure the place you buy it from has a good returns policy. Also if you can test out the Sony in a dark room before buying, that would be your best bet. The Sony is worth buying for the great picture it gives, HD looks amazing on my 32-V2500.
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post #5875 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 10:21 AM
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Greetings all, this I beleive is my first post. I read through about the first 10 pages of this thread prior to purchase and it led me to camp out at the local BB. They have an XBR2 and a Pioneer 5071 right next to each other and both were my choice for a TV. I prefer the LCD technology for its advantages over plasma but I wanted to test and watch for myself. They would not allow any remote use to change settings so I could only watch them as they were calibrated.

I went during daylight then returned later that night. I did this for three days. I also located a dealer for the Sharp too. ( I was loaded with background info from your forum conversations - thank you all)

I noted fantastic image quality from the Sony and Pioneer. The Sony had the edge in brightness, clarity-especially in the main foreground image and the overall wow factor in viewing. The Pioneer was exceptional in color "natural" look and in one scene in particular of a forest, the background trees stood out much better than the Sony.

The Sharp was unimpressive to me, primarily the one outstanding issue was the coloration - alien looking. The salesman, quite knowledgeable, tried to adjust it noting the weirdness but it was not possible. What was really bad was that it was a DVD of the Matrix. Neo had a pinkish-purple skin. The picture was dark but actually too dark and adjustment only caused milkiness, net correction. The salesman gave up and took me to a Sony! I looked politely and left.

At any rate, I have the 46" XBR3 and it is beautiful. I have been playing with it for the last week (bought now 7 days ago) and see some uneven lighting similar to the clouds shown in the pics but only if I turn out all lights and look at the screen at a blank input view. I have watched carefully for light spots during viewing and played Star Wars and other movies looking at the areas and gazing for error. I have to say that IF I saw something in my viewing of a movie, I would take it back but I am still looking. The build date is November 2006.

Oh, I forgot to mention, I went into the Magnolia Room and they had the XBR3 hung in a trio Samsung, Panasonic and Sony. The Samsung was stunning but where I noticed a difference was on the edges of moving objects and on some objects there was some blurring. A good example was a skate board freestyle on their canned video. I saw no blurr on the Sony or the Panasonic Plasma. it seemed to me that the plasmas have an advantage of background clarity.

I am not sure what to say. I would not want to buy something defective but I am not seeing major problems at this time. I hope that it is not a problem that develops. From what I read here, it sounds like it is immediately observeable.

Now, teach me how to tweak it! I bought Get Gray and have a blue filter and ordered the HQV DVD this week.
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post #5876 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 10:23 AM
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It sounds like instead of a USB Flash pen with a pretend "Fix" on it, SONY should be shipping out Torx Screwdrivers and Paint Rollers !
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post #5877 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pratzert View Post

It sounds like instead of a USB Flash pen with a pretend "Fix" on it, SONY should be shipping out Torx Screwdrivers and Paint Rollers !

in reality,they should be sending out jumbo tubs of KY or a comparable anal lubricant.
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post #5878 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma6icmike View Post

in reality,they should be sending out jumbo tubs of KY or a comparable anal lubricant.

That is abso-friggin-lutely hilarious!!
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post #5879 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spincut View Post

what are crickets?

If you look at the Mitsubishi thread (46131/231), apparently the Mitsubishi LCD makes an irritating noise that sounds like crickets.

There is no LCD that is consistently excellent, in the sense that it justifies three thousand dollars or more. And Sony doesn't really care about this problem. They are selling tons of XBRs. The prices are basically the same as they were six months ago. The picture looks good in the store, and the sales people rave about it and get the buyers all giddy. Sony can just weather this. I've talked to numerous sales people in different stores about this problem, and the great majority of sales people don't seem to know anything about it. The vast majority of consumers don't know either. XBRs are still moving out the door. BB has to take a few back, but they just sell it as an "open box" special. Then some sorry slug takes your cloudy tv home at a discount and doesn't know or care about the clouds because that last show on DiscoveryHD looked...well, just brilliant. Sony figures they'll fix the problem in the next generation, and this weak little storm front will just blow over.
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post #5880 of 9118 Old 02-11-2007, 11:20 AM
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ok, picked up the new 46xbr3, january/mexico build last friday evening. it most definately has the new update because i elected to "buy" the new set and keep the old one for comparison, to keep the better (less affected) of the two. side by side comparison immediately showed that the new unit auto-dims whenever there is a dark source, and then lightens/brightens back up when the source is brighter. this is quickly evident when powering on both sets at the same time (easily done with the remote), and u can see that initially BOTH blank screens have some unequal backlighting. but after a few seconds january panel darkens, as well as the input source flag in the upper left corner. after those few seconds u can clearly tell the difference between the two panels.........the january build screen is jet black and even and the input flag is clearly dimmer than the october panel. so, it will darken/dim automatically to make the "clouds" seemingly vanish.

so, what i did next was play "the descent" on the january build, and just as i suspected/feared, it auto dims to hide the clouds whenever a scene is mostly black/dark, BUT it does it to the point where it's TOO DAMN DARK. u are unable to see most of the characters as they are meant to be seen because of how dim it makes the already dark scenes. to alleviate this, i simply increased the brightness, but this then could give a "washed out" appearance if done too high to the "blacks" being displayed, and then when the auto dims goes back during a brighter scene, that scene is now too bright. *smfh*

i don't like the fact there is no "user" control over this auto-dimming, especially since the clouds are less apparent on the january build than the october....meaning, the auto dim function is not "needed" on this particular panel because the mura is so minimal. i got a less "affected" panel, but now have auto dimming in effect on the darn thing! so, it's keep the one that has more clouding but no auto dimming, or keep the one with less mura, but auto dims whenever it deems necessary.

i'm just at the point where i'm thinking to just wait it out, take them both back, and wait for something PERFECT, which should be available to anyone spending 3-4-5K for a damn tv. anyone who gets a new january/february/whatever-else-in-the-immediate-future is going to have now deal with auto dim, which MAY make your viewing pleasure "less" than what it should be.
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Sony Bravia S Series Kdl 40s2010 40 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia W Series Kdl 46w5100 46 Inch Lcd Hdtv , Sony Bravia Xbr Kdl 52xbr4 52 Inch 1080p Lcd Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv

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